PS3 Demos Not Really PS3?

[zippyjuan]

Things might not be as far along as they seemed to be at E3. Over priced, over promised?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20060606094811.html

Sony PlayStation 3 Hardware May Not Be Finalized – Sources.
Developers Use Personal Computers to Show PS3 Advantages

Category: Multimedia

by Anton Shilov

[ 06/06/2006 | 09:49 AM ]


A source within the industry said that the PlayStation 3 hardware might not be finalized as of early May, as at least some game developers who showcased their Sony PlayStation 3 (PS3) titles during the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) exhibition used typical personal computers (PCs) to do it.

According to the information provided by sources familiar with the matter, game developers used high-performance PCs to showcase what the PlayStation 3 game consoles will be able to deliver to gamers. At least some of the game developers masked personal computers inside the showcase stands and put a PS3 case so that attendees would believe that they see the real working game consoles and the real games. However, no attendees could actually touch the consoles, or to play the PlayStation 3 games during the exhibition.

The game developers who did not run their demos on the pre-release Sony PlayStation 3 hardware, used high-performance personal computers, such as those featuring high-speed Nvidia GeForce 7900 graphics cards in SLI mode or even ATI’s Radeon X1900 in CrossFire mode. While neither ATI, nor Nvidia would confirm such information, the sources claimed that at least some game developers used PC hardware to demonstrate the PS3 demos.

Given that nowadays game developers usually create games for multiple platforms, including PCs and game consoles from Microsoft and Sony, technically software makers may demonstrate their products using different hardware. Programmers – including John Carmack of id Software – said in the past that creating games for the PS3 would not be a trivial task. Knowing that and keeping in mind that game console builders finalize specifications of their machines till the last minute before release, demonstrations of certain technically advanced demos using PC hardware may seem logical.

Back in May 2005 Microsoft used similar trick with the Xbox 360 which was set to be launched in November, 2005. During the E3 show the software giant used Apple PowerMac G5 systems featuring IBM PowerPC processors to run the games for the Xbox 360.

Sony PlayStation 3 console is based on the Cell processor developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba, the RSX graphics chip by Nvidia Corp. and will be equipped with Blu-ray optical disk drive. According to Merrill Lynch research company, the most expensive component of the PlayStation 3 will be its Blu-ray disk drive, which will initially cost $350. The second most expensive part of the gaming machine will be the Cell processor which will cost Sony “at least” $230 per unit to make. Nvidia’s RSX graphics processor will cost $70, while for 256MB of XDR memory as well as 256MB of GDDR3 memory Sony will have to pay $50, believes Merrily Lynch. In total, the price may reach $900 just to manufacture one PlayStation 3 console. The PS3 game consoles will cost $499 or $599 depending on the system configuration.

Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. did not comment on the news-story.

[zero2dash]

A source within the industry said that the PlayStation 3 hardware might not be finalized as of early May, as at least some game developers who showcased their Sony PlayStation 3 (PS3) titles during the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) exhibition used typical personal computers (PCs) to do it.

Without someone in the industry with credentials publicly going on record, this holds about as much water as "a little birdie told me". :heh: Not trying to poo on you for posting it, zippy, I'm just saying.


According to the information provided by sources familiar with the matter, game developers used high-performance PCs to showcase what the PlayStation 3 game consoles will be able to deliver to gamers. At least some of the game developers masked personal computers inside the showcase stands and put a PS3 case so that attendees would believe that they see the real working game consoles and the real games. However, no attendees could actually touch the consoles, or to play the PlayStation 3 games during the exhibition.

1) It wouldn't surprise me but there's no proof that they did or didn't do it
2) People were able to play real games on the system; why would half of the game sites out there have reported this and lied about it?


The game developers who did not run their demos on the pre-release Sony PlayStation 3 hardware

Supposedly Sony is backlogged on fulfilling devkit orders, so, if developers don't have devkits, they could be programming on similar PC hardware.


used high-performance personal computers, such as those featuring high-speed Nvidia GeForce 7900 graphics cards in SLI mode or even ATI’s Radeon X1900 in CrossFire mode. While neither ATI, nor Nvidia would confirm such information, the sources claimed that at least some game developers used PC hardware to demonstrate the PS3 demos.

1) Sony signed an agreement with nVidia to supply the RSX chip and ATi supplies the gpu in both the Xbox 360 and the Wii, so there's no way in hell ATi would allow Sony to use their products in any relation to the Ps3, and there's an even less likely chance that Sony would do it knowing that ATi is nVidia's (their partner's) competition.

2) Again..."a little birdie told me"

Sheesh this has more holes than swiss cheese. At least when we see these "financial analysts" come out spouting BS, they put their names on it. :shrug: :hihi:

Again, not poo'ing on your post zippy - just saying that the author of this article needs to seriously reconsider posting it; what an idiot.

[Airencracken]

Well, from another article I've read they state with some amount of confidence that Gran Turisimo was actually ran on a PC.

[gear02]

:heh: Not trying to poo on you for posting it, zippy, I'm just saying.



You know...there are other websites out there that cater to such "interests" ;)

I think people find it interesting because then their next thoughts are "well if they develop on the PC, why can't they release the console game for the PC."

For me, it's not that interesting other than the fact that true or not, Sony is struggling with the PS3. Those analysts who predict component prices aren't just pulling numbers out of their ass. They do a lot of research and I do think they're close. They might be off by as much as $200 overall, maybe due to volume pricing, but it's still indicative of the console's price. They wouldn't be trying to charge us $500 if they can make it for $300.

[Paymaster]

I think people find it interesting because then their next thoughts are "well if they develop on the PC, why can't they release the console game for the PC."


I'm not in the industry, but I would imagine that the main difference is in supporting one configuration (console with specified memory, gfx, etc), vs supporting an infinite number of configurations (pc with unknown memory, gfx, whatever).

[ProMinx]

I definitely believe the story. The article only says that some of the games were played on PC, while in fact much worse occurred. Don't you remember about a month ago when IGN posted a story about looking behind the curtain in a closed doors screening and noticing that one of PS3's "exclusive" titles was actually running on a hidden XBox 360? IGN pulled the story after about 15 minutes, when I'm sure they received legal warnings from the developer. If some of the PS3 demos were presented on an XBox 360, I have no problem believing that some were presented on PCs...and I have no moral opposition to using a PC. It has been a long-standing practice to use PCs for development and early presentation in game development. The 360 presentation is a bit more morally questionable.

[shocky123]

I'm not thaat surprised that some game developers simply didnt have time to port all of their 'development-code' to the PS3, or for that matter, ran into problems while trying to do so. While Sony and IBM have both made available 'SDK' - type software to allow early, console-specific/targeted game and software development, I can easily see how the classical approach of emulating a console/processor via a workstation could become quite expensive and intensive for hardware such as the Cell which is horribly complex. Software emulation of hardware carries with it a HUGE performance hit, and when your targeted hardware easily outperforms your workstation, this becomes a big problem.

I.E. it's much cheaper to do your initial development -- writing the game, getting it to work, testing, etc -- in a familiar environment, and then fine-tune all the fancy stuff while porting it to your targeted hardware.

Now, as far as I know... the GT-HD stuff was planned to be released for both PC/PS3 (i may be wrong on this) I would imagine that it would be significantly easier to get the PC version of this up and running, and if they had issues w/ the PS3 version -- which can easily be attributed to lack of experience using the new programming model --- then why not show what it should at least look like on the PS3??

I dont understand all of the fuss about this... deadlines don't get changed if you fall behind for E3 :) And if I had to blame someone for it, I wouldnt start with Sony..

my 2c,
~Kyle