Video: UCLA student tasered by security in library for not showing ID

[Butch]

Ouch . . . without knowing all the background, it's difficult to judge. Security definitely seems to have overreacted . . . even if the guy may have been a smug prick (just a guess), he wouldn't deserve multiple shots with the taser.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3CdNgoC0cE&eurl=

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/11/16/ucla-student-tasered-in-library/

UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody. At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your f&*$ing abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident

[MikeD]

I dunno. Either show the ID or leave? What's so hard about that?

The cops probably overreacted, but root cause analysis shows the fault lies with the "student". He was given a choice, chose not to comply, and paid the price.

Cops don't react that way if he handles himself accordingly. :shrug: Grow up and accept responsibility for your own actions.

[Jeffbx]

Wow - poor judgement on the part of the student for not complying with the cops after the first shock, but way, WAY worse judgement on the part of the police to continue to stand there & kill their crdibility with the other students by making a specticle of the event. After a crowd formed, they needed to grab that guy & drag him out of there, not force him to comply by tasing him over & over. They had enough cops to drag him out, and then the would probably have a good case against him for resisting, etc.

Instead they tried to make a point, but made an entirely wrong one - the message they ended up sending is that they have the power to make you do whatever they want, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Great image for campus police. That'll end up being a big settlement against the university.

[ShawnLee]

I don't even know if they didn't try to drag him. Really hard to tell what happened from that video. I'm giving the cops the benefit of the doubt since there's an investigation going on, I'm gonna wait for the results of that before I say anything specifically.

I will say this without any reservation. That guy's an idiot, show ID or go. Those rules are for student safety, I hope that those kids appreciate that.
"Uh, officer? I demand your badge number!" (Hehe, I'm cool! I'm in college! I learned some legal procedure! Man, my voice is nasally and geeky.)

[DarkFury]

Yeah... that tasing went way too far. After about the 4th or 5th shock I was like "WTF"... are they doing this just to hear him scream now?

Geez...

[CourtJester]

In this day and age the police (in any incarnation)have all the power. Even if you are in the right, you have to pick and chose your battles wisely or else you will suffer the consequences. This student didn't choose wisely:disa:


UCLA eat my shorts:eek3:

An USC Alumi:wavey2:

[Sirrich3]

CJ....it figures

[Napoleon54]

Laying on the floor does not warrant repeated tasering. Another wonderful example of police brutality, from the same state that brought us the Rodney King fiasco. I would have loved to see a mob form and lynch those #@*&^@% pigs.

[MikeD]

In a stunning development...:disa:

He refused to show his ID, then intentionally incited the crowd. And he's probably gonna get paid for it. Niiiiiice.


LOS ANGELES - A student who was shocked by a campus police officer’s Taser gun after he refused to show ID at a UCLA library thought he was being singled out by the officer because of his Middle Eastern appearance, his lawyer said.

Attorney Stephen Yagman said he plans to file a federal civil rights lawsuit on behalf of the U.S.-born student, Mostafa Tabatabainejad.

Tabatabainejad, 23, was shocked Tuesday night after arguing with a campus police officer who was conducting a routine check of student IDs at the University of California, Los Angeles Powell Library computer lab.

Yagman said his client declined to show his school ID because he thought he was being targeted for his appearance. His family is of Iranian descent.

Police have said Tabatabainejad encouraged others at the library to join his resistance, and when a crowd gathered, the officer used the stun gun on him.

Yagman disputed that, saying Tabatabainejad started yelling to draw attention after the police officer pulled out the Taser.

Tabatabainejad was arrested for resisting and obstructing a police officer and later released on his own recognizance.

The incident, recorded on another student’s camera phone, showed Tabatabainejad screaming while on the floor of the computer lab. It was the third time in a month in which police behavior in the city was criticized after amateur video surfaced.

UCLA’s interim chancellor, Norman Abrams, urged the public to withhold judgment while the campus police department investigates.

Several civil rights organizations, including Amnesty International and the Council on American-Islamic Relations, have called for an independent review.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15765622/

[hapoo]

ok, people are tased when they are being dangerous... this guy was already in handcuffs! just drag his ass out, there is no need to tase him! And then after they tase him, they tell him to get up off the ground! I'm sorry, but the whole point of the weapon is to numb a person so they can't move, what they hell do you expect of him?

Their ID check policy is setup to protect students. Well, instead of protecting them, they just tased one student 5 times and caused a lot of commotion. I hope the cops get fired over this.

[eSDee]

Those cops should be suspended :2far: Freakin University wannabe cops.

[Thesifer]

Those cops should be suspended :2far: Freakin University wannabe cops.

I'm not sure if California is the same way as Oklahoma, but in Oklahoma "University Wannabe Cops" Are STATE Police. Meaning they have more power then the City that surrounds the campus.

[eSDee]

I'm not sure if California is the same way as Oklahoma, but in Oklahoma "University Wannabe Cops" Are STATE Police. Meaning they have more power then the City that surrounds the campus.

It's the same way here they are State Police. Me calling them wannabe's is something I picked up from hanging out with a bunch of CSO's. They said that our campus police were mostly cops who couldn't hack being a city cop.

[Thesifer]

It's the same way here they are State Police. Me calling them wannabe's is something I picked up from hanging out with a bunch of CSO's. They said that our campus police were mostly cops who couldn't hack being a city cop.


So I don't get why they get hired on to be State Police if they can't hack it as a City Cop? I know.. Logic is probably not the best thing to use.

*By the way I live in California currently (SD) I just don't know the Campus Police situation out here :) My hometown of Stillwater,Ok didn't have much else to talk about.

[WhiskeyPapa]

"His powers are greater than mine."
"Yes, plus when you got hit with his [taser] you DID scream like a wussy."

How embarrasing for this punk. Yes, he'll get paid for it, but his pansy screaming is on the internet forever.

[Showtime]

Security is doing their job and trying to protect students and their rights by checking ID's. If dude was singled out because of race, he should have showed the card and then told them to go to hell. Instead he thought he'd try to incite a riot. That crap might work at Berkeley, but apparently it doesn't work in LA. The cops didn't know if he was or wasn't a student and that was all his fault. They did their job, too bad his rents didn't do theirs.

To use my public city library I have to show ID. They even ask for extra proof (water bill, etc.) when setting up or renewing a library card. I think that's fair. It keeps the library and it's resources in better condition for me, as a resident/tax payer, to use.

[johnnymk]

I would have tasered him just for his name being so long and being unable to pronounce it.







j/k

[MikeD]

The cops didn't know if he was or wasn't a student and that was all his fault. They did their job, too bad his rents didn't do theirs.

:stupid:

Summed up very nicely. Cops did their job, too bad he couldn't do his.

[InfiniteNothing]

Did you guys listen to the audio. The guy was screaming he was willing to leave.

[MikeD]

The guy was screaming he was willing to leave.

This was after he ignored law enforcement. Poor judgement on his part.

[InfiniteNothing]

So after someone claims they are willing to comply, it's still okay to taze them ?

[DarkFury]

Of course it is... YOU WILL ALL BOW DOWN TO "THE MAN"!!!! :yell: :nono:

You don't dare question "THE MAN".. or else there will be CONSEQUENCES!!!!


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[MikeD]

So after someone claims they are willing to comply, it's still okay to taze them ?

Nice try. My point is that he wouldn't have been in that position if he had done what law enforcement had asked him to. It's pretty simple.

Are you saying that he's not at fault here?

BTW, my previous post stated:


The cops probably overreacted

No, it's not OK. He should shoulder the blame for putting himself in that position.


Of course it is... YOU WILL ALL BOW DOWN TO "THE MAN"!!!!

You don't dare question "THE MAN".. or else there will be CONSEQUENCES!!!!

:heh:

Funny. To me, it looked they were simply asking him to comply with universtiy policy. I think it's a stretch to take that all the way to "...not complying with THE MAN". :disa:

[zenbooty]

Once again another confrontation between a priviledged spoiled brat and a bunch of LA's fascist pigs ends in stupidity on all sides. What else is new.

Can't we agree everyone involved was an idiot in their own way and move on to more inspiring topics to talk about?

To protect and serve :rolleyes:

[InfiniteNothing]

Nice try. My point is that he wouldn't have been in that position if he had done what law enforcement had asked him to. It's pretty simple.

Are you saying that he's not at fault here?

Well, even though you don't answer my questions I'll answer yours. It's his fault he's in that situation but I don't think the reaction was justified. Mistakes should be met with appropriate reactions and I think it here that we disagree. I don't think the tazer was acceptable and I think the tazer after he had said he would comply is completely wrong.

Just because someone did something wrong doesn't give the cops free range for as long as the feel like it.

[MikeD]

Well, even though you don't answer my questions I'll answer yours.

I did answer your question IN, though I can see that I probably didn't state it clearly enough. Thanks for answering mine.


No, it's not OK.

[eSDee]

So I don't get why they get hired on to be State Police if they can't hack it as a City Cop? I know.. Logic is probably not the best thing to use.

*By the way I live in California currently (SD) I just don't know the Campus Police situation out here :) My hometown of Stillwater,Ok didn't have much else to talk about.

The logic is that being a beat cop in San Diego is too difficult of a job, so they transfer to a cush University job where the biggest event is a hobo living under a trailer. That's how a lot of people saw them anyway.

[Thesifer]

The logic is that being a beat cop in San Diego is too difficult of a job, so they transfer to a cush University job where the biggest event is a hobo living under a trailer. That's how a lot of people saw them anyway.


Or an "unruly student" that you have to Tase :)

[Houdini]

I don't even know if they didn't try to drag him. Really hard to tell what happened from that video. I'm giving the cops the benefit of the doubt since there's an investigation going on, I'm gonna wait for the results of that before I say anything specifically.

I will say this without any reservation. That guy's an idiot, show ID or go. Those rules are for student safety, I hope that those kids appreciate that.
"Uh, officer? I demand your badge number!" (Hehe, I'm cool! I'm in college! I learned some legal procedure! Man, my voice is nasally and geeky.)

Gotta agree with you there. There's nothing of what happened before the tasing on the video, nor is there a good shot of what was happening during the other shocks. The guy should have complied with the police when he was first asked to leave. He created a spectacle by yelling "Patriot Act!" and other B.S. I bet the guy doesn't even have a clue what the act even entails. I don't remember reading anything about using non-lethal force against someone who is noncompliant with a police officer's orders, potentially jeopardizing the safety of the other students as well as the officers, in the act.

I loved the "I want you badge numbers" BS, as well as the tall dumbass in the white t-shirt who was yelling down at the shorter cop. Then he started yelling at each one, waving his hands in their faces, etc. He's lucky he didn't get arrested as well. You're not supposed to stick your hands in people's faces.

Re: Tasers - the mode of action is different depending on model. He likely had the pain-compliance type, which wouldn't prevent him from standing up. Hell, even the NMJ override type wouldn't prevent him from standing after 5 seconds or so.

So yeah, it was chaos. And based on what the guy was saying and how others were behaving, I'm very willing to give the cops the benefit of doubt.

[eSDee]

Gotta agree with you there. There's nothing of what happened before the tasing on the video, nor is there a good shot of what was happening during the other shocks. The guy should have complied with the police when he was first asked to leave.

You're right, there is nothing to show what happened before the tape started rolling. Then how do you know the student didn't comply "when he was first asked to leave?" :confused:


He created a spectacle by yelling "Patriot Act!" and other B.S. I bet the guy doesn't even have a clue what the act even entails. I don't remember reading anything about using non-lethal force against someone who is noncompliant with a police officer's orders, potentially jeopardizing the safety of the other students as well as the officers, in the act.

He was being tazed while handcuffed. That is a violation of his civil rights, which is something that the Patriot Act also does. That is what he thinks at least, as do many. So by yelling "Patriot Act" it sounds like he was making a legitimate comparison.


I loved the "I want you badge numbers" BS, as well as the tall dumbass in the white t-shirt who was yelling down at the shorter cop. Then he started yelling at each one, waving his hands in their faces, etc. He's lucky he didn't get arrested as well. You're not supposed to stick your hands in people's faces.

What law says that? Is that covered in the Patriot Act too?

I have a huge problem with the Police tazing this a-hole while he was handcuffed. He chose the wrong police to make a stand again I guess. But apparently the guy had a problem being racially profiled, even though he was a legitimate student, a U.S. citizen, but just a little bit too "terrorist-lookin".

I'm sure we'll hear more from this guy.

[Showtime]

This thread is interesting in that it's more about stereotypes than about what actually happened. References to "Rent-a-cops" and "the Man" show that some have a very preconceived idea about campus police/security. The truth is that those cops are people whose job it is to protect our teenage and older students. Dude on the other hand, has only one job and that is to maintain his grades and graduate (eventually). Every argument I've seen for him is of little substance and poorly masked as a race or power issue.

The truth is that he was a dumb ass. He hasn't gone through jack squat compared to what the Japanese Americans went through in WWII or the Blacks or the Chinese or even the Mexican migrant workers endured. They suffered and struggled for basic rights and all he has had to endure is "the man" asking to see his ID or some "rent-a-cop" looking at him funny. No ASSumptions here, just simple facts of what went on that day.

For whatever reason the campus police ask him to show his ID.

He has an ID but tells them "no".

They tell him has to go since he can't prove he has the right to be there.

He becomes unruly and tries to incite a riot.

He gets his dumb ass handed to him on a plate.

The problem with a lot of people everywhere is that they want to baby and protect people who don't deserve it. I know too many criminals and scandalous people who might have been better off without all these "rights" given to them. This dude's right to be left alone is not as important as the students rights to a safe environment.

[Butch]

Frankly, I don't see how anybody could justify the use of violent force on a non-violent student under any circumstances. Sure, the kid may be a jerk, but that doesn't make it OK to tase him.

The officers are in a position of authority and responsibility. If they couldn't manage that situation without resorting to one of the (if not the) most extreme measures available to them, then either they are poorly trained or they lack sound judgement - or both.

[DarkFury]

Every argument I've seen for him is of little substance and poorly masked as a race or power issue.
Where did you see a "race" issue...???

I didn't see any mention of race before.

[Houdini]

What law says that? Is that covered in the Patriot Act too?


EsDee, with all due respect, why don't you try walking up to your nearest police officer and start jabbing your finger at his/her face/chest while yelling. I bet they will step back, ask that you shut the hell up, and then reach for their lethal or non-lethal weapon. It's just what they're supposed to do.

[MikeD]

Where did you see a "race" issue...???

I didn't see any mention of race before.

Then you're blind to the fact. This entire thread has been rife with insinuations along those lines.

[InfiniteNothing]

I think you're reading too far between the lines.

[InfiniteNothing]

Frankly, I don't see how anybody could justify the use of violent force on a non-violent student under any circumstances. Sure, the kid may be a jerk, but that doesn't make it OK to tase him.

You're forgetting how many of us are perfect and have never made a mistake. Those of you mistake makers deserve to be stepped on.

[Thesifer]

I personally thing they should just suspend the officers directly involved for a week or a month no pay. And the kid shouldn't get anything more then "Sorry we tased you, next time just show your ID"
And that should be the end of it. I fear that won't be the case though.

[Napoleon54]

...all he has had to endure is "the man" asking to see his ID or some "rent-a-cop" looking at him funny. No ASSumptions here, just simple facts of what went on that day.You seem to have omitted the fact that he was tasered repeatedly.

This dude's right to be left alone is not as important as the students rights to a safe environment. Please point to the evidence showing that the non-compliant student caused harm or posed a direct threat to anybody. There are varrying degrees of bad judgement and wrong doing, and correspondingly appropriate methods for law enforcement to respond with. If the guy was pointing a firearm at someone, tasering would obvioulsy be appropriate. But declining to pull an ID card out of his pocket? REPEATED tasering of an unarmed person who is laying on the ground and poses no immediate threat to anyone is certainly uncalled for.

Are you claiming the officers' methods were not excessive? Then perhaps you think Ghandi was justifiably beaten for his silent protests. (No, I am NOT putting this dude on the level of Ghandi, just drawing a vague comparison between their actions and the level of threat imposed on others.)

[Napoleon54]

The problem with a lot of people everywhere is that they want to baby and protect people who don't deserve it. I know too many criminals and scandalous people who might have been better off without all these "rights" given to them.

I agree with that statement entirely, but I think the issue here is more about the officers' use of excessive force.

[ShawnLee]

Again, unless there's some better evidence of what happened than a cell phone camera clip, I say we withhold judgment.

I don't know that the cops screwed up or didn't, whether they followed policy or not, or whether policy should be changed or not. Calling for a truce and their suspension without clear info? That's asinine.
For sure this student acted stupidly, but enough to justify his being tasered? I don't know. I'm inclined to believe no from what I saw, but I wasn't there so I'm willing to think that perhaps he did deserve it.

Good cops have a crappy deal. They have a job that's often thankless, they all have to deal with it if one of them screws-up, and they're targets of criminals and stupid lawyers by nature of their position. So, I give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Showtime]

We've already established that campus security has a responsibility to make sure that only Ucla students are using the library. That cuts back on crime and protects the students from outsiders. Dudes non compliance became a potential situation when he tried to incite a riot.

Trespassing is a crime. When he refused to leave and became unruly, they had to do their jobs and arrest him. They were supposed to taser until he stopped resisting arrest and they did what was necessary to remove the bad element and protect the students of Ucla.

My friend is a cop and if the person he's trying to arrest doesn't stop resisting after the 1st charge, they will hit him with another charge and another until that person stops resisting.

Now I hope they try to prosecute the idiot. Dude needs to be charged with disturbing the peace, trying to incite a riot and for being a really dumb ass.

Some lazy people/parents want lots of baby sitters. They want teachers, the police and society to baby sit their children. Parents need to start parenting and people need to grow up and be more accountable for their actions.


You seem to have omitted the fact that he was tasered repeatedly.
Please point to the evidence showing that the non-compliant student caused harm or posed a direct threat to anybody. There are varrying degrees of bad judgement and wrong doing, and correspondingly appropriate methods for law enforcement to respond with. If the guy was pointing a firearm at someone, tasering would obvioulsy be appropriate. But declining to pull an ID card out of his pocket? REPEATED tasering of an unarmed person who is laying on the ground and poses no immediate threat to anyone is certainly uncalled for.

Are you claiming the officers' methods were not excessive? Then perhaps you think Ghandi was justifiably beaten for his silent protests. (No, I am NOT putting this dude on the level of Ghandi, just drawing a vague comparison between their actions and the level of threat imposed on others.)

[Houdini]

Please point to the evidence showing that the non-compliant student caused harm or posed a direct threat to anybody. There are varrying degrees of bad judgement and wrong doing, and correspondingly appropriate methods for law enforcement to respond with. If the guy was pointing a firearm at someone, tasering would obvioulsy be appropriate. But declining to pull an ID card out of his pocket? REPEATED tasering of an unarmed person who is laying on the ground and poses no immediate threat to anyone is certainly uncalled for.


Is there any evidence that the non-compliant student was harmless? All I've seen is the stupid video clip. I wasn't there, and have no idea how he may or may not have threatened the police, etc. Assuming he's innocent while assuming the police acted inappropriately based on a cell-phone video is irresponsible at least. If he were pointing a firearm at anyone, he should have been shot with a pistol, not a taser. Unarmed person? That's the point! That's why they used a Taser. Otherwise they could have rightly shot him with a pistol. Tasers allow police to control unarmed people when necessary while ensuring the safeties of themselves and the non-compliant person. No bruising, biting, scratching, pulling of knives, etc., can happen. That's why they are used so much nowdays. Tasers are used by police for non-lethal situations often to encourage compliance. This guy was obviously non-compliant on at least one acccount - the I.D. thing.

As far as the repeated thing, I dunno. If he is on the ground yet still refuses to follow instructions after being shocked, then another zap may be in order to encourage compliance from a possibly violent man. By the way he was yelling "Patriot Act" and other crap, he was trying to incite something or prove some sort of point by being "victimized" by the police.

The police obviously thought this guy was a threat to themselves or others. If they didn't, then they shouldn't have even been in the area. But if they asked someone for ID, and the guy told them to eff off, and if he resisted arrest, then using something that is relatively harmless yet painful is a good idea. It's not worth having someone get hurt or killed over some college brat's idiocy.

[Napoleon54]

The only info I have is from the stupid video clip as well. Regardless of what happened before the recording started, the only thing apparent from the video is that the student is being told "stand up or you'll get tased again", etc. ZAP! "stand up or you'll get tased again" ZAP! "you don't think you're funny now, heh?" Meanwhile, the student is heard screaming "I told you I would leave", "I will leave", and "I have a medical condition". There is no indication that the suspect, who is handcuffed and surrounded by at least 3 officers, poses a danger to anyone at this point. Yet the tasing continues.

At about half way through the video one can clearly see through the doorway that the handcuffed suspect is being carried/ dragged by an officer on each arm when he gets tased again. Reason? Apparently none. The crowd and the videographer follow the scene out into the hallway/ foyer area. The suspect is seen lying on the floor and gets tased again. Finally, a while later, the suspect is seen being carried/ dragged out the door by two officers. Why they didn't do that to begin with is beyond me.

Another thing to consider is that while the only info we have is this crummy video, there were many other people in the area witnessing the scene first-hand. These people (not the suspect) are heard saying "we want your badge numbers", "this is an abuse of their authority", "stop it!", "that's so wrong" etc. The witnesses are clearly very disturbed and concerned by the officer's actions, rather than relieved that a threatening criminal has been removed from their presence.

[jaja]

Lack of communication and misunderstanding between cops and the student.

[ShawnLee]

There is no indication that the suspect, who is handcuffed and surrounded by at least 3 officers, poses a danger to anyone at this point. Yet the tasing continues.
Indication from a grainy and poorly shot video.

Finally, a while later, the suspect is seen being carried/ dragged out the door by two officers. Why they didn't do that to begin with is beyond me.Why is beyond me too, but then I'm not a cop, I don't know. I don't know if the specific demands of the situation called for their action in that manner. Still, I don't know does not translate to the cops are wrong, or right for that matter.
Another thing to consider is that while the only info we have is this crummy video, there were many other people in the area witnessing the scene first-hand. These people (not the suspect) are heard saying "we want your badge numbers", "this is an abuse of their authority", "stop it!", "that's so wrong" etc. The witnesses are clearly very disturbed and concerned by the officer's actions, rather than relieved that a threatening criminal has been removed from their presence.And they're not cops either, so far as I know. If any of them are trained to evaluate a security situation and can comment on them, then I look forward to hearing it.

[Houdini]

Indication from a grainy and poorly shot video.
Why is beyond me too, but then I'm not a cop, I don't know. I don't know if the specific demands of the situation called for their action in that manner. Still, I don't know does not translate to the cops are wrong, or right for that matter.And they're not cops either, so far as I know. If any of them are trained to evaluate a security situation and can comment on them, then I look forward to hearing it.

:stupid:

I'm not quite willing to give some smartass college kids who think they have to sound condescending, asking for badge numbers and then yelling at cops, waving fingers in faces, etc., the benefit of the doubt over trained police in a school setting dealing with a noncompliant student who, by all written accounts, refused to show his ID b/c he thought he was being profiled. The fact that he yelled "Patriot Act" indicates to me that he was looking for a fight of sorts, wanting to make a point that is irrelevant to the Patriot Act, and generally trying to cause a spectacle. We have no idea if he threatened the police, how far he went in resisting, etc.

Also, re: the tasering while being "dragged out" by the cops, I doubt it. I surely wouldn't want to be dragging ANYONE out while he/she is being tasered. That could mean a big ouch for the dragging officers.

Cops nowdays can use TASERS (Tom A. Swift Electric Rifles) to force compliance from a potentially violent person, even if that person is on the ground and still refuses compliance. It's for their own safety as well as the safety of the public. It's relatively harmless, and the perp doesn't have to be armed in order to be tasered.

I'm just surprised that the idiots who were lecturing the cops in such a, well, threatening manner weren't also dragged off. If I were waving my fist/finger/whatever at a cop while yelling at him, etc., I'd expect some sort of repercussion. I've seen similar (damn near exact) things in bars, and it pretty much goes down the same way, and for the same reasons.

[InfiniteNothing]

Lack of communication and misunderstanding between cops and the student.
Power corrupts.

[Napoleon54]

If any of them are trained to evaluate a security situation and can comment on them, then I look forward to hearing it.
If they aren't, they shouldn't be armed with tasers.

[Napoleon54]

Jesus Christ, watch the video again. Sheesh!!!

[Napoleon54]

I'm done with this thread, the ignorance and idiocracy here is intolerable.

[MikeD]

the ignorance and idiocracy here is intolerable.

I think both "sides" feel the same way.

At least there appears to be a semblance of agreement in the fact that the (a) the kid caused his own problem and (b) the cops probably overreacted. :shrug:

I don't think the kid should see a dime from this, which is an obvious possibility. He caused this problem, brought it upon himself.

[Houdini]

If they aren't, they shouldn't be armed with tasers.

Er...they weren't. They were students. :shrug:

[Houdini]

I'm done with this thread, the ignorance and idiocracy here is intolerable.

Disagreement over knee-jerk condemnation of the police based on very, very limited information = ignorance and idiocracy? :rolleyes:

[zenbooty]

Disagreement over knee-jerk condemnation of the police based on very, very limited information = ignorance and idiocracy? :rolleyes:
Video clip > very limited information. Its very clear from what I see that the police overstepped their bounds. If you want to look up and say the sky is green, there's not much the rest of us can say to argue with you without being rude :shrug:.

[MikeD]

Video clip > very limited information. Its very clear from what I see that the police overstepped their bounds.

These two statements, together, don't make much sense. If you're allowing that the video gives "...very limited info", how can you say something is "...very clear"? :shrug:

[InfiniteNothing]

That's a greater than sign. It's taking alot of will power not to be more sarcastic.

[Markel]

These two statements, together, don't make much sense. If you're allowing that the video gives "...very limited info", how can you say something is "...very clear"? :shrug:
I think that "Video clip > very limited information" is meant to be interpreted "The video clip is more than very limited information".

However, the video clip starts after the ruckus was already under way, so we have no idea what took place prior to that.

[Got Apex Moderator]

OK folks - I want everyone to take two big steps away from the thread and take a deep breath. No use getting up in arms because there are differing opinions.

Thank you

- GAM

[InfiniteNothing]

You know what would be cool? If you could give a thread a time out. I guess you can unlock a thread I imagine...

[MikeD]

Gentlemen, appreciate the correction. Scanned Zen's post too quickly. Thanks...

[Airencracken]

You know what would be cool? If you could give a thread a time out. I guess you can unlock a thread I imagine...

Thats a good idea actually, how possible is that GAM?

[ShawnLee]

I didn't know there were "sides" here. I don't think I've heard anyone say that there should be a blanket release of the cops from all culpability, just that the investigation should be completed.
And Napolean, I said the students likely weren't trained in matters of security, not the police. Otherwise, I'd agree, don't give 'em tasers (not that tasers are really that horrible a weapon).

[Houdini]

Video clip > very limited information. Its very clear from what I see that the police overstepped their bounds. If you want to look up and say the sky is green, there's not much the rest of us can say to argue with you without being rude :shrug:.

Geez, Zen. You have a way of being rude while trying to sidestep it/pretend not to. Any way you could cut that out?

The video clip is grainy, noisy, people are blocking the way, etc., and limited in that we don't see what happened prior to when the guy turned on the phone or even walked over to the incident. Also, tasering someone is a helluva lot safer and better for all involved than using brute physical force. People's assertions that he was tasered while being held by the police, etc., have to be false, as the police likely wouldn't want to get shocked. Guy was noncompliant on several counts per the story, from the ID thing to not leaving when asked, was tasered to induce compliance, and then was removed from the library. I really don't see what the big deal is.

[Houdini]

I didn't know there were "sides" here. I don't think I've heard anyone say that there should be a blanket release of the cops from all culpability, just that the investigation should be completed.
And Napolean, I said the students likely weren't trained in matters of security, not the police. Otherwise, I'd agree, don't give 'em tasers (not that tasers are really that horrible a weapon).

:stupid:

[DarkFury]

The lines have been drawn... the sides have been taken, and honestly this back and forth discorse really isn't going anywhere now.

Agree to disagree and move on now? :hmm: :shrug:

Until we hear something further on this incident, I'd say that the now unliving equestrian has been firmly subdued and chastised.

[Cheesypuff]

I was reading on democracy now (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/20/1448245) just in case you wanted to read it.

anywho...I was reading that the UCLA police have a less restrictive policy that if the person they are arresting doing passive resistance (going limp etc etc), they can use the stun gun on them. And Regular police who aren't UCLA police can not use stun guns if people are doing passive resistance. There really needs to be a change in their policy if this is the case. the UCLA has less restrictive policies then regular police people.

[Showtime]

I love that people have different opinions on things. Sometimes I just wish they were more consistent.

Do people honestly think the police enjoyed this confrontation and wanted to tazer this "student"? Campus security are human beings with kids and families of their own. They didn't taser him until he tried to start a riot. At that point they were protecting themselves and the students in the area. Dude had several chances to show his ID before it got serious, but he choose to try and show "the Man". When the police tazered him, they were not tazering a student because a student would have showed their ID. They were tazering a potential rapist, thief, perv, trespasser, young male person with an unknown motive. Campus security did their job. If they found a gun or a knife or some sort of bomb, they would be heroes and no one would be discussing the amount of force they used. This is not a guilty until proven innocent incident, this is a simply show us your ID or leave the student library.

Teh consistency part:

What's really sick here is that if they just left him there and he turned out to be a bad guy, the same people talking mess about them overdoing their job, would be talking about how the stupid lazy cops didn't do their job.

His right anonymity < students right to safe campus

[Cheesypuff]

at this point...I don't think anybody is arguing the students stupidity with the situation. not showing ID, being belligerent etc etc. I think people are arguing the post handcuff dealings with the student.

point 1) kid was being stupid
point 2) first taser shock might have been appropriate
point 3) after being tased, it takes about 3-10 minutes to recover from a shock like that
point 4) IMO the post handcuff tasings were uncalled for

passive resistance compared to active resistance are totally different.

Both parties were stupid.

to bring up the argument of if this guy were a terrorist, I would have the same feelings if the terrorist were cuffed and then tased excessively.

Campus security DID do their job...and I'm glad for that, but to cuff a person and then tase them? I don't think thats right. NOW, if the person tried to run away, or try to headbutt or try to harm others or himself (the definition of active resistance) then one should put a stop to that. But if one is being passive resistant (in which the report says he was) he shouldn't not be tased. correct?

but let me state again...both parties...stupid

[echonrg]

ok, people are tased when they are being dangerous... this guy was already in handcuffs! just drag his ass out, there is no need to tase him! And then after they tase him, they tell him to get up off the ground! I'm sorry, but the whole point of the weapon is to numb a person so they can't move, what they hell do you expect of him?

Their ID check policy is setup to protect students. Well, instead of protecting them, they just tased one student 5 times and caused a lot of commotion. I hope the cops get fired over this.

well some reports from channel 9 news said he did not have any ID showing he was a student. Whether he was or wasn't is not relevant. the fact is he had none. If he was a student indeed he should have know the rules.

That is however no excuse for the behavior the campus police displayed. Fired maybe not, but no pay suspension maybe would be a more appropiate punishment (let's say two months).

[InfiniteNothing]

It's relevent in an ironic sense. The rule is there to protect students but instead it ended up hurting a student. The irony would not exist if they tazed a nonstudent.

[ShawnLee]

Right. Cause when cops are looking at safety and security situations, they should first be mindful of what is ironic or not.

[Napoleon54]

to bring up the argument of if this guy were a terrorist, I would have the same feelings if the terrorist were cuffed and then tased excessively.:stupid:
ok, people are tased when they are being dangerous... this guy was already in handcuffs! just drag his ass out, there is no need to tase him! And then after they tase him, they tell him to get up off the ground! I'm sorry, but the whole point of the weapon is to numb a person so they can't move, what they hell do you expect of him?:stupid:
Right. Cause when cops are looking at safety and security situations, they should first be mindful of what is ironic or not.:stupid:HAHA, exactly. Well said.