An atheists dilemma

[cruelpupet]

Fortunately it hasnt come up too often, but it did semi-recently.

When someone you know and care about dies, and you know and care about others who knew them, you are eventually forced to hear "but they are in a better place now right?" or something similar.

What do you do?

Have an awkward silence?
Lie, when you might have had previous convos where you sid you dont believe in a God or afterlife?
Walk away?

[InfiniteNothing]

"By better place, you mean the coffin? I suppose the high thread count lining is nice but the square footage sucks"

[Airencracken]

Fortunately it hasnt come up too often, but it did semi-recently.

When someone you know and care about dies, and you know and care about others who knew them, you are eventually forced to hear "but they are in a better place now right?" or something similar.

What do you do?

Have an awkward silence?
Lie, when you might have had previous convos where you sid you dont believe in a God or afterlife?
Walk away?

Chances are in that situation that people know my personal beliefs and wouldn't bring up such a statement. However, I'd just shunt it aside/not answer it and then attempt to comfort them in some other way.

[Cubsfan]

Tell them what they want to hear. No need to kick them when they're hurting.

[cruelpupet]

Tell them what they want to hear. No need to kick them when they're hurting.

So i should lie about my beliefs? If it were the opposite way would you expect a christian/jew/buddist to pretend they're not?

[Nija]

A morgue or getting to know worms is such a better place...

[InfiniteNothing]

"Yes, he'll be soon sipping beer with http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/FSM_logo.svg/250px-FSM_logo.svg.png"

[Napoleon54]

"It was his/her time", something along those lines, could be a neutral response. And I don't think a belief in fate is necessary for that statement; you could mean "it was about time they died and stopped suffering".

But yea, potentially an awkward situation.

[Thesifer]

I usually just sit quietly and don't respond. I'm not going to conform to anyone's beliefs but my own. Even in death, I still have my beliefs.

[Butch]

Just say something nice about the person. If you say something like "he was a wonderful person" the person you are talking to will interpret it how they want to, yet you haven't said anything that counters your belief system.

Of course, if you think the guy was a bastard, then I can't help ya.

[RoniMan]

So i should lie about my beliefs? If it were the opposite way would you expect a christian/jew/buddist to pretend they're not?

sorry, but i don't quite understand the question/situation.

but if someone says it to me, i just thank them for their nice thoughts.

if it's someone else i'm talking to, and i want to say something nice, i might say something along those lines. even though i'm buddhist, i don't see anything wrong with telling them something that'll make them feel better in a time of sorrow.

but that's just me.

[LPMiller]

So i should lie about my beliefs? If it were the opposite way would you expect a christian/jew/buddist to pretend they're not?

yes, because it's not the appropriate time to discuss your beliefs, and is in fact rather selfish. Besides, just because you believe in no god doesn't mean they don't go to a better place. What if they died in Cleveland?

[Napoleon54]

yes, because it's not the appropriate time to discuss your beliefs, and is in fact rather selfish. Besides, just because you believe in no god doesn't mean they don't go to a better place. What if they died in Cleveland?

I think it's appropriate to say something neutral- don't belittle someone else's beliefs, but maintain respect for your own beliefs at the same time. It's an awkward and delicate balance.

Would you expect a Christian to console a devil worshiper by saying "He's in a better place now, in hell with Satan."?

[kimchicowboy]

i sort of agree with LP and maybe taking things too personally. someone just died and it's about that person. :)

[zenbooty]

I smile and let it all pass. I don't feel threatened by others' religious expression, as long as they aren't put forth as law.

Then again, I'm not really an atheist. Just not a member of any organized religion, is all.

[ArkiStan]

No need to lie. There are many neutral ways to let it pass without lying or bringing up religion in some way. Just think about it. It's not that hard.

[RoniMan]

Would you expect a Christian to console a devil worshiper by saying "He's in a better place now, in hell with Satan."?

no, but why do u have to add the last part? why couldn't u just say "he's in a better place now" and leave it at that?

[BigJon]

Me? I'm agnostic...so I either just have the akward silence or lie.

[Grafalgar]

Thank them for their kinds thoughts and move on. If someone else has a different belief system than you, then that's really just it: They have a different belief system than you.

You may not believe that the person went anywhere, but they do. Why argue it? No need to lie about anything either.

I'm Christian, but if an Atheist comes up to me at a funeral and does not say something to the tune of "she's in her place in heaven" then that's fine. I believe she may be, Atheist doesn't. It's all good! If someone comes along commenting about how she's going to be reincarnated as a hawk/eagle/any other honorable bird, then by George, go for it and thank you for the kind words! Thank you for considering the person in a kind way as it applies to your particular system of faith!

Iow .. just because one disagrees with another's faith does not mean one has to deprive them of caring in accordance with that faith every chance one gets.

Now .. on the flip side, if Atheist / Buddhist / Zoroastrian / whoever comes up and insists that the person is/isn't in a particular place, then that's different ;) That thar is looking for trouble ;) Not all mentions of a particular facet of a particular religion is a force to impose that religion on another person :)

[LPMiller]

I think it's appropriate to say something neutral- don't belittle someone else's beliefs, but maintain respect for your own beliefs at the same time. It's an awkward and delicate balance.

Would you expect a Christian to console a devil worshiper by saying "He's in a better place now, in hell with Satan."?


Why are you comparing apples to watermelons?

No one is asking you to believe anything, they are saying something that they believe in that gives them comfort at a time when they need it. It's not the time to get into a discussion of religion or anything of the sort. No one who is grieving gives two flying rat butts what you believe. There is a time and a place. In this case, it's not about you and your beliefs, it's about them and their grief.

Your example implies someone is forcing the atheist to say the person is in a better place, when all they are really doing is looking for a pat on the hand or a small head nod. There is no dilemma here.

[InfiniteNothing]

You guys are dodging the question. You are asked directly about if you agree with their view that does not agree with yours. How do you answer the question: That's the hypothetical.

[Nija]

You guys are dodging the question. You are asked directly about if you agree with their view that does not agree with yours. How do you answer the question: That's the hypothetical.
Walking away is an answer that's allowed in the original posing of the question. So is lying, and not saying anything.

[Napoleon54]

Why are you comparing apples to watermelons?

No one is asking you to believe anything, they are saying something that they believe in that gives them comfort at a time when they need it. It's not the time to get into a discussion of religion or anything of the sort. No one who is grieving gives two flying rat butts what you believe. There is a time and a place. In this case, it's not about you and your beliefs, it's about them and their grief.

Your example implies someone is forcing the atheist to say the person is in a better place, when all they are really doing is looking for a pat on the hand or a small head nod. There is no dilemma here.

Simple question: If you know that saying "he's in Hell with Satan" would comfort the griever, would you say it? I ask because you previously stated that not saying the converse ("they're with God now") would be selfish.

But regardless of if I'm misunderstanding something or not, I still want to ask it anyway: would you be willing to tell someone "he's in Hell with Satan" if you thought it would comfort them?

[stufine]

atheists
I wonder if that means they dont believe in UFO's, Ghost or luck
are atheists born or taught to believe. If you werent taught about god would you be an atheists? I dont consider myself an atheists but i do ask the question is their a god.... are you sure it isnt something else?

A better place could mean anything if they didnt say heaven. It wouldnt bother me by agreeing cuz i wouldnt want to preach anything to them

[Jeffbx]

Simple question: If you know that saying "he's in Hell with Satan" would comfort the griever, would you say it? I ask because you previously stated that not saying the converse ("they're with God now") would be selfish.

Sure, I would. If that's what they believe, then that's what they want to hear. At that point, it's not about making a stand for what you believe in, but it's to offer sympathy & support for the people who need it. I'm not above lying to comfort someone.

I mean, let's take an extreme example - let's say a mom who lost her son, and maybe he was an Atheist. Or maybe the Christian mom who loses her child before they're baptized. Do you think she wants to hear, "Too bad... your son/baby is in purgatory or hell right now. That's a shame he's not in heaven."? Or maybe just tell her what she wants to hear? No one really knows what goes on after someone dies, so no use taking the opportunity to present YOUR belief at an inopportune time. IMHO.

[Houdini]

I'd probably go with the neutral statement. I'd hate to say something that goes against my own convictions, but saying, "I'm sorry for your loss" or even "You're in my prayers" etc. shouldn't really offend anyone. It's not like they're going to say, "Don't pray for me!" If they do, then they're not as tolerant as they expect you to be. Still, there are plenty of ways to express condolences without buying into someone else's belief system. I have to remain as neutral an nonjudgmental as I can in my line of work, and I'm faced with this fairly often. I'll say "sorry for your loss" or "I'm sorry you had to go through that, it must have been tough" or whatever - things that apply to most everyone. I don't and really can't impose any of my beliefs on patients. It's just not my place, though it does offer me an opportunity (granted, this isn't at a funeral) to explore and learn about others' belief systems though, beyond my own reading and studying about various religions, belief systems, etc.

[MrGreg]

When my grandmother died I was on the flip side of this. I took it pretty hard, and several people tried to console me with "she's in a better place now" which does absolutely nothing for me. I know they were just trying to help and I don't hold anything against them, but at the time I was thinking "we just poured her ashes into the river. I'm pretty sure she'd rather be at home on the couch with her cats than IN THE FREAKING RIVER"

[Nija]

"I'm sorry for your loss" or even "You're in my prayers" etc. shouldn't really offend anyone.
...
I'll say "sorry for your loss" or "I'm sorry you had to go through that, it must have been tough" or whatever - things that apply to most everyone.
:stupid:
I'll agree, I've said things such as that.

[molecularfire]

Sure, I would. If that's what they believe, then that's what they want to hear. At that point, it's not about making a stand for what you believe in, but it's to offer sympathy & support for the people who need it. I'm not above lying to comfort someone.

I mean, let's take an extreme example - let's say a mom who lost her son, and maybe he was an Atheist. Or maybe the Christian mom who loses her child before they're baptized. Do you think she wants to hear, "Too bad... your son/baby is in purgatory or hell right now. That's a shame he's not in heaven."? Or maybe just tell her what she wants to hear? No one really knows what goes on after someone dies, so no use taking the opportunity to present YOUR belief at an inopportune time. IMHO.
:stupid:
IMO, when someone dies I stop thinking about the person and work on trying to make it as less miserable an experience for the family as I can. In situations like this, I've prayed with people who I felt that it would help them (I'm agnostic myself) and if I felt that it would make someone feel better if I said "he's in hell with satan" then I would say that.

[welfareloser]

heheheh... why is this thread so funny, you turds?!?!?

but yeah... pretty easy to respond nicely without a lie. i've been faced with this fairly often - ever eaten dinner with amish people? it's jsut not hard to be respectful while others are praying, without praying or pretending to pray yourself.

now, if someone is taking the opportunity to preach and push their beliefs on you (and i've had this happen a couple of times myself... "HE'S DEAD NOW! ARE YOU HAPPY? WANNA COME TO JESUS YET, DAMN YOU?!?!?" ) then feel free to verbally engage in defense of your beleifs. otherwise, not the time.

[ski]

It's all about who gets the jump first.

Atheist: It's so sad he is dead and gone forever.
Wouldn't it be rude for someone who didn't believe that to "correct" you after that, at a funeral? Definitely not the time to question others' beliefs!

Non-Athiest: He is in a better place.
Just the same here... if they get the jump on you, I don't think it's the right time to "correct" them.

Arguing about which religion is "right" is completely futile, shown by the history of man since his existence :heh: