Campus rampage- VA Tech

[Sirrich3]

Horrible news...a cousin of mine was to take a tour of the campus this afternoon!

http://www.yahoo.com/s/558044

BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people in the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history. The gunman was killed, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

The university reported shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building.

Some but not all the dead were students. One student was killed in a dorm and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.

The name of the gunman was not released. It was not known if he was a student

[Kevster]

OMG.. This is one of those events where I'm really just shocked beyond words...

[CornMonkey]

been reading this all morning. this is just terrible...

[MikeD]

I don't care how bad your life is...I'll never understand what draws people to carry out acts like this. :2far:

I have some family on campus, as well as friends from my time there. First cousin and a second cousin. Thankfully everyone is OK.

It's a school, for chrissakes. Kids trying to further themselves, gain an education. I just don't get it...

[Sirrich3]

I Agree MikeD. Can't wait to find out about the shooter...

[TruckStuff]

I don't care how bad your life is...I'll never understand what draws people to carry out acts like this. :2far: One final act of control? Proving to others just how much authority one can exert over them?

[mcs328]

Death toll at 29 and climbing. Terrible.

[guiseppewv]

This is competely terrible. :disa: I just don't understand why people do this. My prayers are with the friends and families affected by this tragedy.

[Paniolo]

Latest report states at least 32 killed:sad:

[cheapie]

my God! can't wait to find out more info on the gunman.

[Jenny]

This is insane. I feel so sorry for everyone involved. :(

[fillup0215]

very tragic...what person in their right mind would do a thing like this!

[Sirrich3]

COunt up to 33 as per FOX News update

[YellowCoffee]

very tragic...what person in their right mind would do a thing like this!

He probably wasn't in his "right mind". Mental illnesses are a tragic reality. I won't assume whether the shooter had one or not, but like you said; what person in their right mind would do this? The only answer I come up with is somebody suffering from some mental/psychological disorder.

Very tragic news. It kind of shows how quickly life can be taken away, and for no reason at that.

[Houdini]

This is just terrible. News said he used a 9mm and a .22. He must have shot 70+ times. I have no idea what to say, as this is so tragic. Keep the victims, wounded and dead, and their families in your prayers.

[Devhux]

Sadly, I won't be surprised if someone states that video games were a cause of this.......

Definitely shocked to hear the news today.

[VTGreg]

An unbelievable tragedy. My heart goes out to all the friends and family of those that were injured or killed. It is so difficult to fathom these events taking place in a setting that I spent so many wonderful years.

I can't believe some of the media coverage so far. I have heard some really unbelievable comments from the major media outlets.

[gear02]

An unbelievable tragedy. My heart goes out to all the friends and family of those that were injured or killed. It is so difficult to fathom these events taking place in a setting that I spent so many wonderful years.

I can't believe some of the media coverage so far. I have heard some really unbelievable comments from the major media outlets.

Like what?

[VTGreg]

Like what?

For one, all of the second guessing is a bit over the top. I can understand the questions, but I have already heard the talk of lawsuits against VT. Just the norm for the media but, IMO it is a bit much at this point.

Napolitano (sp?) on Fox said that this was the VT Board of Visitors fault for not allowing students to carry concealed weapons.

[guiseppewv]

I think a couple issues I have with the media coverage are:

1) Over and over talking about how this is the biggest killing spree at any school in the US. The way they are speaking it makes me think they are trying to raise the bar for someone else to aim for. No, there was no pun intended.

2) Second guessing the school not shutting down the campus after the shooting at the first location. Let more facts come in before you start second guessing people. You (the media) don't even know if the two crime scenes are linked, yet. You might *think* they are but until some evidence is gathered you are not for sure.

[gear02]

For one, all of the second guessing is a bit over the top. I can understand the questions, but I have already heard the talk of lawsuits against VT. Just the norm for the media but, IMO it is a bit much at this point.

Napolitano (sp?) on Fox said that this was the VT Board of Visitors fault for not allowing students to carry concealed weapons.

Damn, you're right. Those are absolutely stupid questions. The last one is just some guy wanting to make political hay out of a tragedy that hasn't even cooled yet.

[gear02]

Btw the one thing I've very afraid now is copy cat acts. I remember after Columbine that there were a few school shootings that were almost similar. Since I go to a university right now (not to mention one that has had very recent controversy) I'm a little afraid of that. I hope that we get a little more security, just for the time being.

[ShawnLee]

Freakin' crazy nutjob... So sad.

[LPMiller]

oh, I'm already tired of the ban all guns/they should have concealed weapons people already. I'd like to see the law that prevents nutjobs from being insane. And if everyone had guns when a nutjob goes off, you'd just have a lot more dead people, because people in general are poor decision makers in a crises. So if I could have one wish, it would be to have both of those groups shutup for 6 months, so those people can grieve a bit before we start a new round of what's wrong with society.

[Houdini]

To be fair, though, most CCW carriers actually make good decisions in crises.

[ShawnLee]

oh, I'm already tired of the ban all guns/they should have concealed weapons people already. I'd like to see the law that prevents nutjobs from being insane. And if everyone had guns when a nutjob goes off, you'd just have a lot more dead people, because people in general are poor decision makers in a crises. So if I could have one wish, it would be to have both of those groups shutup for 6 months, so those people can grieve a bit before we start a new round of what's wrong with society.
:stupid:
I think that this is probably the most definitively right statement in light of today. At the very least, let's chill on this debate because the facts on the issue won't change from what happened today.

Let us first bury the dead.

[cruelpupet]

Napolitano (sp?) on Fox said that this was the VT Board of Visitors fault for not allowing students to carry concealed weapons.


Id rather them say that, then whine about needing stricter gun control laws which do absolutely nothing but disarm the regular population.

[LPMiller]

To be fair, though, most CCW carriers actually make good decisions in crises.


this is the wrong place to have the discussion, so if you want another thread, feel free, but there is absolutely know way of really knowing that.

[guiseppewv]

this is the wrong place to have the discussion, so if you want another thread, feel free, but there is absolutely know way of really knowing that.

I agree that this is the wrong place for this discussion but in H's defense you brought it up and you continued the discussion in your post after you said this was not the proper thread. If the discussion on CCW is to continue then start a new thread. This should be a thread to talk about the shooting and grieve those who lost their lives in this tragedy.

[ski]

I got 9 voicemails today from people checking if I was all right (I graduated from there a little over a year ago, I guess they forgot), and if everyone I knew was all right. People I know directly are okay, but my friends have people they're still looking for. Unfortunately they need to brace themselves for the worst.

I lived in that dormitory (West AJ) and had many classes in Norris Hall, and up until today, would I or anyone in there know what to do in a situation like that -- do you envision someone busting into your room and shooting? I never would have.

What could you have done to stop it? I feel like there's not much.



Tomorrow, I know a lot of people on campus and VT alumni are going to wear orange and maroon to support those who lost someone today. I don't expect anyone else to have those colors in their closet, but think of the hundreds of students who lost a friend today and pray/hope/channel some thoughts their way.

[guiseppewv]

I think some of the students that were in those classrooms were very smart. I say this because from the reports that I have read the students who were still alive after the gunman (or men) left barricaded themselves in the classroom and prevented the gunman from returning to finish the rest of them off. There were also students who barricaded themselves in their classrooms when they heard the shooting start. Very smart - they did the right thing and what they had to.

My heart goes out to those affected by this craziness.

[yippiekiyeh]

Stupid asian man giving us asians a bad name :/ *sigh* Apparently, it was a love "hate" induced rampage?

[chrissy]

I got 9 voicemails today from people checking if I was all right (I graduated from there a little over a year ago, I guess they forgot), and if everyone I knew was all right. People I know directly are okay, but my friends have people they're still looking for. Unfortunately they need to brace themselves for the worst.

I lived in that dormitory (West AJ) and had many classes in Norris Hall, and up until today, would I or anyone in there know what to do in a situation like that -- do you envision someone busting into your room and shooting? I never would have.

What could you have done to stop it? I feel like there's not much.



Tomorrow, I know a lot of people on campus and VT alumni are going to wear orange and maroon to support those who lost someone today. I don't expect anyone else to have those colors in their closet, but think of the hundreds of students who lost a friend today and pray/hope/channel some thoughts their way.



Audie wore orange today. She read this over my shoulder and changed shirts. She has to watch the news for school everyonce in a while and she is getting a habit of watching it with me. And she has such a big heart. And even though she has had a plan of action (I kid you not) with some other friends of hers incase something like this happens, she is scared. She has more questions than just "why?"

I will keep you and your friends in my thoughts and prayers. Audie will too.

[ski]

I think some of the students that were in those classrooms were very smart. I say this because from the reports that I have read the students who were still alive after the gunman (or men) left barricaded themselves in the classroom and prevented the gunman from returning to finish the rest of them off. There were also students who barricaded themselves in their classrooms when they heard the shooting start. Very smart - they did the right thing and what they had to.

My heart goes out to those affected by this craziness.
Absolutely true... it's good to not forget that. It could have been potentially worse had the survivors in that room not played dead or barricaded the door. I had friends in the adjacent building who heard the shots react positively as well -- a gut reaction to barricade their door. Thank God for wireless internet and cell phones to keep them up to date.

[ShawnLee]

Crap! The guy was Korean! What an a-hole! ARGH! No offense to the Chinese folk on this board, but I was SOOOOO hoping that this guy wouldn't be Korean...

At any rate... 23 year old Seung-Hui Cho was a permanent resident from Centreville, VA and a resident at the dorms.

[cheapie]

i was just talking to a co-worker about it. when he heard the dude was asian he asked if i knew if they meant chinese-asian or like pakistani-asian. i guess i never really thought about pakistan being part of asia. i'm pretty sure that the news wouldn't report the guy as asian if he was from pakistan. they would have labeled him as muslim or something like that.

[Cheesypuff]

sorry for thread crapping. and in no way am i trying to dumb down death in anyway. But i had a epiphany while seeing this story on the news.

death happens in iraq on a daily basis, and it gets reported on the news that this many people died and that many people died in a road side bomb. yet i would say the general american doesn't think twice hearing that news anymore. yet...when death happens on USA soil, everybody is sad and grieving for them. Why can't we grieve for the people killed in iraq like we grieve for people killed here? is it because it's war? is it because it's at a university? why is the general american do desensitized to death in iraq?

i for one am saddened by any death. i know i'm comparing apples and oranges. but death is death. and i'm saddened by any form of death. please don't take this as me trying take away from the sympathy from the people killed in VA. i am very sad they're no longer in this world. But i am equally sad of death anywhere.

[cheapie]

because we have more of a connection with the folks in VA. we will always feel more strongly about the victories and tragedies of our own folks than those elsewhere. same reason you don't rejoice nearly as much when another country wins a gold medal.

[Jihforce]

Crap! The guy was Korean! What an a-hole! ARGH! No offense to the Chinese folk on this board, but I was SOOOOO hoping that this guy wouldn't be Korean...

At any rate... 23 year old Seung-Hui Cho was a permanent resident from Centreville, VA and a resident at the dorms.

So you where hoping the guy was Chinese? That's kinda f'ed up don't you think?

[CornMonkey]

more info related to this tragedy, including more info/photo about the killer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266500,00.html

[cheapie]

i was hoping it wasn't another white dude going crazy. i can understand why he'd wish that it wouldn't turn out to be korean. and he didn't say he wished it was chinese. he just meant them no offense. not sure why he picked them out instead of japanese.

[VTGreg]

because we have more of a connection with the folks in WV. we will always feel more strongly about the victories and tragedies of our own folks than those elsewhere. same reason you don't rejoice nearly as much when another country wins a gold medal.

It was VA not WV.

[cheapie]

oh snap. sorry!

[bachviet]

We were just hoping that the gunman is not Vietnamese.

My prayers are with the victims, their families and friends.

[Jihforce]

i was hoping it wasn't another white dude going crazy. i can understand why he'd wish that it wouldn't turn out to be korean. and he didn't say he wished it was chinese. he just meant them no offense. not sure why he picked them out instead of japanese.

Yeah, singling out Chinese makes it sounds like he was hoping they way Chinese instead of Korean. Specially since there are more than 2 kinds of asians out there. I totally understand why he hoped that he wasn't Korean of course, who would want a wack-job like that associated to their race/nationality you know. I guess its just came out wrong.

[YellowCoffee]

sorry for thread crapping. and in no way am i trying to dumb down death in anyway. But i had a epiphany while seeing this story on the news.

death happens in iraq on a daily basis, and it gets reported on the news that this many people died and that many people died in a road side bomb. yet i would say the general american doesn't think twice hearing that news anymore. yet...when death happens on USA soil, everybody is sad and grieving for them. Why can't we grieve for the people killed in iraq like we grieve for people killed here? is it because it's war? is it because it's at a university? why is the general american do desensitized to death in iraq?

i for one am saddened by any death. i know i'm comparing apples and oranges. but death is death. and i'm saddened by any form of death. please don't take this as me trying take away from the sympathy from the people killed in VA. i am very sad they're no longer in this world. But i am equally sad of death anywhere.

This has always been the case. I am in no way justifying this, but I think that as Americans, we tend to be affected on a much higher level when we can connect w/ the victims just like cheapie said. The less we can relate to the victim, the less we really care. I think this is somewhat natural behavior, but I definitely think that as a wealthy country, we do lack compassion and sympathy.

I mean sure, Iraq is bad; but why not take it one step further to North Korea or many parts of Africa. I think as Americans, we can't fully comprehend what goes on there and the magnitude of horrific events that occur.

On another note, who cares if he was Korean. Who cares if he was even asian. I don't see the relevance at all. Sure, it may affect people's views on Korean-Americans, just like 9/11 created unfair prejudice against Muslim-Americans, but what is so different between them and the unabomber or Timothy McVeigh? I definitely don't "wish" he was Chinese or Middle Eastern or any other ethnic group. I "wish" this didn't happen. I know the media will put a spotlight on his nationality, but IMO, I don't think there's much importance to that.

[Jihforce]

We were just hoping that the gunman is not Vietnamese.

Honestly, I don't think it matters what nationality he is, it still makes the asian community look bad.

[Jihforce]

Sure, it may affect people's views on Korean-Americans, just like 9/11 created unfair prejudice against Muslim-Americans, but what is so different between them and the unabomber or Timothy McVeigh? I definitely don't "wish" he was Chinese or Middle Eastern or any other ethnic group. I "wish" this didn't happen. I know the media will put a spotlight on his nationality, but IMO, I don't think there's much importance to that.

True, but for the average person, racial profiling will be an issue, the fact that he's Korean doesn't mean much since most people have a hard time differentiating between asians anyway. But i'm with you on this, wish innocent folks didn't have to die in all of this.

[Houdini]

As far as second-guessing, I'm not willing to do anything of the sort re: the admin.

I really hope the students resisted. At many schools - elementary, middle, etc. - students are taught to throw everything at a shooter. Books. Desks. Even pencils and pens can seriously break someone's concentration. I'd hope at that point a few guys would be able to take an asshat like this down. Or maybe while he's reloading. You have nothing to lose. Once someone breaks out a gun, it's combat.

I was willing to bet money this was a rifle. Using a pistol that effectively and shooting that many rounds just isn't as easy as it sounds. Guess I was wrong.

[ArkiStan]

I find it remarkably convenient that one week after sending out 20 job appications with the word "S. Korea" plastered on them, and in the midst of waiting for interviews, a student from "S. Korea" goes on the greatest shooting spree in US history. Sigh...such is my life.

:D

I'm kidding. I trust the offices not to discriminate based on that, but I'm sure it doesn't help. Or maybe it'll make my resumes stand out. And then they'll notice my mad skills. ;)

[ShawnLee]

Yeah, singling out Chinese makes it sounds like he was hoping they way Chinese instead of Korean. Specially since there are more than 2 kinds of asians out there. I totally understand why he hoped that he wasn't Korean of course, who would want a wack-job like that associated to their race/nationality you know. I guess its just came out wrong.
Sorry, you're right. I should have specified. I heard all day that it was an Asian guy, which pissed me off. Then it was a Chinese guy. Then it became either Chinese or Korean. That's why I singled out Chinese, not because I wanted it to be Chinese. I wish this guy didn't exist, or more accurately, I wish I'd never heard of him before and never had any reason to. The options being laid out as Chinese or Korean, that's what I was hoping.

And don't get me wrong.

It freakin' sucks and is a huge national tragedy no matter what.


And Cheesy, you're right, all death does suck, but this is closer to home with innocents, as opposed to soldiers who train to fight and innocents abroad.
I find it remarkably convenient that one week after sending out 20 job appications with the word "S. Korea" plastered on them, and in the midst of waiting for interviews, a student from "S. Korea" goes on the greatest shooting spree in US history. Sigh...such is my life.

:D

I'm kidding. I trust the offices not to discriminate based on that, but I'm sure it doesn't help. Or maybe it'll make my resumes stand out. And then they'll notice my mad skills. ;)
This sounds incredibly callous and selfish to some folk, but it's true!

I made a facebook group saying that people shouldn't fear me because I'm a Korean male gun owner. And people are sending me angry messages. Dude, I'm just trying not to get crapped on because of some idiot.

[Jeffbx]

I really hope the students resisted. At many schools - elementary, middle, etc. - students are taught to throw everything at a shooter. Books. Desks. Even pencils and pens can seriously break someone's concentration. I'd hope at that point a few guys would be able to take an asshat like this down. Or maybe while he's reloading. You have nothing to lose. Once someone breaks out a gun, it's combat.

Looks like at least one guy did - a professor, not a student:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu


Liviu Librescu (c. 1932 – April 16, 2007) was an American Jewish-Romanian Professor of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Tech and a Holocaust survivor. His major research fields were aeroelasticity and unsteady aerodynamics.

Librescu was murdered in the Virginia Tech massacre while holding off the gunman at his lecture hall entrance so his students could escape.

Hats off to the professor for his bravery.

[ArkiStan]

I made a facebook group saying that people shouldn't fear me because I'm a Korean male gun owner. And people are sending me angry messages. Dude, I'm just trying not to get crapped on because of some idiot.

I should have mentioned in my resume that "I own an axe(guitar) but not a gun." :D

Yeah, but I should try to go easy with the jokes. My previous post was a joke, but I immediately realized that my worries are nothing compared to those who have lost l oved ones. It was ann extremely selfish comment. I sincerely apologize if I offended anybody.

[MikeD]

Today feels like 9/12/01 to me. Not to lessen that tragedy, but it just does. Only this time, more personal.

I don't care if the gunman was White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Martian. I just know we lost 32 good people yesterday. :2far:

[Houdini]

Hats off to the professor for his bravery.

Lost his life to save many others. And after such an incredible life at that. Sad. But he is truly a hero.

I still would like to know more details about how everything went down. I really hope the students didn't just sit there paralyzed because a guy with a gun was there. Sure, some will, and that's fine and normal. Then again, I guess it also can matter based on where the students were from. A bunch of guys from, say, Alabama, MS, or parts of Louisiana, where guns aren't so uncommon, may have been more likely to charge one idiot with a gun in a classroom. Or at least I'd hope so.

This really is a tragedy of unspeakable gravity. Again, hats off to that prof.

[Napoleon54]

Wow, so much to comment on. You peeps been busy!

Re: CP and death in Iraq and elsewhere, I agree 100%. I think it is a shame that we so easily forget the amount of death that occurs daily around the world. That's what POs me so much about Darfur and the world's seemingly complete indifference to that situation. Perhaps a side effect of events like the VT shooting will be to remind us what death and tragedy are like. No offense to the VT victims, but part of me wants to just shrug and say "eh, stuff like that has happened in Iraq and elsewhere on a daily basis for the past 4 years." That's why I've avoided posting in this thread thus far, so as not to offend anyone with what I think is the truth.

Re: nationality of the shooter, I don't think it matters at all. Not any more than identifying him as male or an English major, or anything else. He was obviously a troubled soul regardless of where he came from. It is a tragedy that he decided to end his life and take so many others with him. You've gotta wonder what would make someone believe that that is the right course of action to take. What would drive someone to the edge in that way? I pity the shooter as well as the victims.

Re: the prof who allegedly stood up to the shooter, I look forward to hearing more about him. Did he really survive the holocaust just to be randomly gunned down ~60 years later? I think the word "hero" is far over-used nowadays. The word is used so readily that it barely has any meaning anymore. So now the catchphrase is "true hero"... everyone's a true hero. That's unfortunate because if this guy really did do what the Wikipedia article attributes to him, then we don't have a word to honor him with. He put his own life in direct and obvious danger and faced the near certainty that at that very moment he would probably die, for the sake of helping some others escape, THAT is what a hero is IMO. He had no reason to do that other than out of concern for his students and he did it of his own volition. If that story pans out then that is truly an act of heroism, and I don't use the word lightly.

[VTGreg]

Lost his life to save many others. And after such an incredible life at that. Sad. But he is truly a hero.

I still would like to know more details about how everything went down. I really hope the students didn't just sit there paralyzed because a guy with a gun was there. Sure, some will, and that's fine and normal. Then again, I guess it also can matter based on where the students were from. A bunch of guys from, say, Alabama, MS, or parts of Louisiana, where guns aren't so uncommon, may have been more likely to charge one idiot with a gun in a classroom. Or at least I'd hope so.

This really is a tragedy of unspeakable gravity. Again, hats off to that prof.

Some stories of the sort are already being released. There were definitely some who risked their lives yesterday to save others in their classroom and I hope those stories continue to come out instead of the blame game that is consuming the media thus far.

[ArkiStan]

Who is this Asian kid detained and handcuffed by police outside the building? He clearly seemed alive. I thought the killer killed himself....

http://bp2.blogger.com/_ySCIT3KO9Zc/RiPljeAg_zI/AAAAAAAAEyE/KgIaNgcjwS0/s1600/Virginia_campus_8.jpg

[Grafalgar]

Just my two cents:

Re: Iraq. It may have to do with the disconnection between people on your own soil vs. foreign soil, but I also think it has to do with soldiers signing up for a job where they may get killed. At least for me when I meet a soldier I know and understand that s/he may very well die for this country. As sad as it would be (and is when a soldier loses his/her life), I think people make a certain peace with it. Also, when a soldier loses his/her life, it's generally "because s/he was fighting for our freedom" (quotes not implying sarcasm, just quoting common phrase). When students/common folk lose lives, it's unnecessary and senseless. I think that's where the tragedy lies (compared to defending your country).

Re: The professor and the kids who are taught to stand up to attackers. THANK YOU. Someone (somewhere) gets it. We need to learn how to stand up for ourselves and everyone around us. To much "what about me" and too little "what about us".

/hats off to the professor and the schools who got it right.

[Markel]

Who is this Asian kid detained and handcuffed by police outside the building? He clearly seemed alive. I thought the killer killed himself....
The news mentioned a boyfriend of someone in the dorm being detained as he was leaving the dorm and questioned for a possible connection to the shooter. I haven't heard any updates as yet.

[Markel]

Re: The professor and the kids who are taught to stand up to attackers. THANK YOU. Someone (somewhere) gets it. We need to learn how to stand up for ourselves and everyone around us. To much "what about me" and too little "what about us".

/hats off to the professor and the schools who got it right.
The story of the professor is both heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time. He died nobly.

One thing is that in the moment of terror, the students had very little time to consider how to respond - I imagine that they were either fleeing (where possible) or cowering under whatever cover they could find. It often takes an available opportunity to decide how to act together (as did those who barricaded the door after the attacker left). As an aside, think about the Flight 93 passengers - most probably stayed in their seats during the initial threat, but later they coordinated their actions against the hijackers.

I wondered what would have happened if half a dozen students had grabbed desks (for shields and weapons) and rushed the gunman - they might have been able to take him down. But unless such actions are suggested beforehand, I suspect it would be difficult to generate a coordinated response in an instant. The general population isn't going to be thinking like trained soldiers.

[CornMonkey]

The guy's plays have been released... sort of paints a picture of the kind of person we're dealing with here.

http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/richard-mcbeef-cover-page/20070417134109990001
http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/mr-brownstone-title-page/20070417141309990001

[Napoleon54]

More on Liviu Librescu, the professor:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/17/africa/ME-GEN-Israel-US-University-Shooting.php

[The Happy Squirrel]

Me being a middle-class mid-western white adult male may not grasp this becuase i am so out of touch with my roots but...... What difference does it make what orgion the shooter was?? I dont get it.



also this is kinda strange timing. Most of the tragedies take place in the 4/19 4/20 sltos i would if its just co-incedence or if this was someting else


also was the first attack premditated and the second due to a mental disection of some kind of was the spree premeditatd as well???

[VTGreg]

Me being a middle-class mid-western white adult male may not grasp this becuase i am so out of touch with my roots but...... What difference does it make what orgion the shooter was?? I dont get it.



also this is kinda strange timing. Most of the tragedies take place in the 4/19 4/20 sltos i would if its just co-incedence or if this was someting else


also was the first attack premditated and the second due to a mental disection of some kind of was the spree premeditatd as well???

Someone posted this on a techsideline.com yesterday. I saw an explanation today. Columbine was planned to happen on Hitler's birthday and the Oklahoma City bombings were planned on the anniversary of the Waco killings. From what I heard, it was just a coincendence that the Waco massacre fell in the same week. I don't know if the date of the VT tragedy was planned to coincide with these dates.

[guiseppewv]

Looks like at least one guy did - a professor, not a student:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu



Originally Posted by Wiki
Liviu Librescu (c. 1932 – April 16, 2007) was an American Jewish-Romanian Professor of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Tech and a Holocaust survivor. His major research fields were aeroelasticity and unsteady aerodynamics.

Librescu was murdered in the Virginia Tech massacre while holding off the gunman at his lecture hall entrance so his students could escape.



Hats off to the professor for his bravery.

:stupid:

Amazing that this man survived the holocaust only to be gunned down by some crazy....on holocaust rememberance day. :disa: :(

He was one brave person to die protecting others. A true hero.

[ski]

If you sign up for the Marines or Army and get sent to Iraq, do you think about "what if I get shot today" - every day?

If you go to your 9am college class, do you think about "what if I get shot today" - every day?



That is why it's different. Graf's right.


Edit: in my personal life, I have a friend in Iraq and many who take classes. My friend serving in Iraq searches for IEDs all day as his job, and he knows every day that there's a reasonable chance he could be killed. So in case my first question was mistaken as a real question, that is my answer.

[cruelpupet]

The guy's plays have been released... sort of paints a picture of the kind of person we're dealing with here.

http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/richard-mcbeef-cover-page/20070417134109990001
http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/mr-brownstone-title-page/20070417141309990001


Those are pretty bad. Not in terms of showing his craziness, but just as short plays too.

$5 says its made into an off broadway show within the next 2 yeas.

[Houdini]

Those are pretty bad. Not in terms of showing his craziness, but just as short plays too.


I'll agree they are pretty badly written. The content, though, is weird. From a creative writing prospective, the hatred toward "Brownstone" is rather vague. Little background development, but that could be due to other factors.

The other one is just plain mean. An angry, rageful, depressed kid who wants to mess up his stepfather's life, succeeds, etc. A firestarter, so to speak.

From a psych prospective, and mind you I'm not an analyst, I can see some stuff that would make a reasonable professor talk to the kid, send him to campus counseling, etc., but the news stories have already said that.

What I find interesting, especially in "Brownstone" is the camaraderie among the main characters. This is in striking contrast to the guy's own life. Per accounts, he was a loner, wore sunglasses and a baseball cap pulled low inside, took forever to answer questions, took pics of his female profs with his cell phone camera, wouldn't even wave at someone who addressed him, wouldn't go anywhere invited, etc. Some fear of rejection, maybe. Hence the stalking - a perceived right to be noticed and liked by the girl he liked (and sadly, the first one killed.) Maybe he was expressing in his writing what he couldn't express in person in Brownstone - a group of friends banded together to do whatever, and who share a common "enemy." In the McBeef, there seems little to go on other than an angry, taunting, pissed off kid trying to foment strife and violence.

Like I said, I'm not a classical analyst, but my training does make a few things pop out. At any rate, it doesn't change anything.

[johnnymk]

No link available. this was emailed to me.

A chilling picture emerged Tuesday of Cho Seung-Hui _ a 23-year-old senior majoring in English _ a day after the bloodbath that left 33 people dead, including Cho, who killed himself as police closed in.

News reports said that he may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.

[Houdini]

No link available. this was emailed to me.

A chilling picture emerged Tuesday of Cho Seung-Hui _ a 23-year-old senior majoring in English _ a day after the bloodbath that left 33 people dead, including Cho, who killed himself as police closed in.

News reports said that he may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.

Yeah, the meds have been mostly speculation. Antidepressants don't cause this kind of thing. I hope he was on meds though.

[Napoleon54]

Re: Iraq. It may have to do with the disconnection between people on your own soil vs. foreign soil, but I also think it has to do with soldiers signing up for a job where they may get killed. At least for me when I meet a soldier I know and understand that s/he may very well die for this country. As sad as it would be (and is when a soldier loses his/her life), I think people make a certain peace with it. Also, when a soldier loses his/her life, it's generally "because s/he was fighting for our freedom" (quotes not implying sarcasm, just quoting common phrase). When students/common folk lose lives, it's unnecessary and senseless. I think that's where the tragedy lies (compared to defending your country).


When I spoke of deaths in Iraq and elsewhere I didn't mean soldiers. I meant innocent civilians, victims of suicide bombings and missle attacks and the like. The number of those deaths is far greater than the number of soldiers killed and the vast majority of them are just as innocent as the students at VT.

[Sirrich3]

He was accused of stalking 2 women in 2005...

[MikeD]

http://www.raymondkwan.com/uploader2/files/910/VT%20candles.jpg

[Napoleon54]

Wow MD, that's heartwarming and heartwrenching at the same time. My new desktop image.

[cheapie]

anybody have a high-res version of that?

[VTGreg]

http://pictures.aol.com/galleries/tnad/

Not a link to high-res photo but a collection of some of the memorials that have been created in the last few days.

[Jihforce]

so now we sort of know what he was doing in the 2 hr window between the shootings...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

[CornMonkey]

so now we sort of know what he was doing in the 2 hr window between the shootings...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/
and a new updated photo from that package he sent to NBC...

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070418/070418_vatech_shooterSTILL.hmedium.jpg

[MikeD]

Wow MD, that's heartwarming and heartwrenching at the same time. My new desktop image.

Thanks Nap.

For those who haven't been to the VT campus, that field those folks are on is HUUUUUUUGGGGEEEEE. Would easily hold multiple football fields. It's amazing to see it filled like that...just amazing.

[cheapie]

is that pic for real?

[tupacboy]

wish i can get a high resolution photo of that...

[Jihforce]

and a new updated photo from that package he sent to NBC...

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070418/070418_vatech_shooterSTILL.hmedium.jpg


How bizarre, looks like its straight out of a John Woo movie...sick.

[tupacboy]

http://www.msnbc.com/modules/interactive.aspx?type=ss&launch=18183171,18138369&pg=13

[TruckStuff]

Man, that video is c r e e p y! Sad thing is that this guy is going to become a martyr to other kids on the brink. He even references "Dylan and Eric." :disa:

[ufcrusher]

This is going to sound very weird...but for those individuals who were required to return to South Korea to serve...when did you have to go? My question is actually related to the VT massacre, but I wanted to have an answer to my question first.

[Markel]

ad thing is that this guy is going to become a martyr to other kids on the brink. He even references "Dylan and Eric." :disa:
I was flipping through the channels and caught CNN talking with an FBI agent about this. The agent was slamming the media for doing exactly that - putting this creeps mug all and story all over the place so that the next copycat can be encouraged. :disa:

[ski]

This guy who went to my high school has been posting these notes lately, bitching about how this happens to Iraqi civilians every day and how it's unfair the massacre at VT is getting all the press.


Jon Stewart:
"We in this country, we have just had a very tragic situation occur at one of our universities, and it really has taken the country aback, and there is a real grieving process that we are going through, and going through it, mourning by learning about the victims, and learning about it, and showing our support. I hesitate to say it: how does your country handle what is that type of carnage on a daily basis. Is there a way to grieve? Is there a numbness that sets in? How is that...?"

Ali Allawi, Former Iraqi Minister of Defense
"Well, I think the scale of violence in Iraq is really inconceivable...in your terms. We have on a daily basis what you had the other day in Virginia Tech - massacres of that scale, practically on a daily basis. And it's very hard to grieve. Most of the ways that people treat this is to leave the country. And now we have a very large external refugee problem. Nearly two million Iraqis have left the country. And an internal refugee problem also - almost two million people displaced. The scale of violence and its continuity is such [that] it really numbs you....It's quite a serious psychological problem that is going to be one of the legacies of this crisis."

Jon Stewart
"...then I saw the headline today of literally 150 people killed..."

Why do I feel like saying "F*** you, Jon Stewart"? Even HINTING of downplaying the VT event, bringing it to question, not even 2 days after it happened seems like a sh*tty move.

If your loved one is murdered, you shouldn't bark off comments about how much worse another situation is. Especially right after you lose him or her. Right?

[Sirrich3]

Creepy video....

[Napoleon54]

This guy who went to my high school has been posting these notes lately, bitching about how this happens to Iraqi civilians every day and how it's unfair the massacre at VT is getting all the press.



Why do I feel like saying "F*** you, Jon Stewart"? Even HINTING of downplaying the VT event, bringing it to question, not even 2 days after it happened seems like a sh*tty move.

If your loved one is murdered, you shouldn't bark off comments about how much worse another situation is. Especially right after you lose him or her. Right?

I don't think the intent is to downplay VT as much as it is to upplay (is that a word??) the violence in Iraq. I admire Stewart for trying to bring this to light, it is a valid comparison.

[VTGreg]

I was flipping through the channels and caught CNN talking with an FBI agent about this. The agent was slamming the media for doing exactly that - putting this creeps mug all and story all over the place so that the next copycat can be encouraged. :disa:

I agree. The media is teetering very close to the point where they are immortalizing this mad man. They are giving him exactly what he wanted and providing him a power he never had while he was living.

[Jeffbx]

:stupid:

I would expect the photos & video to circulate 'underground', since these things always seem to leak out. But I have to admit I was really, really surprised to see a major news outlet like MSNBC posting everything immediately & running the video over the air. It's pretty discouraging to see them doing EXACTLY what the killer wanted, all for the sake of ratings. Thanks, morons.

[TruckStuff]

I was flipping through the channels and caught CNN talking with an FBI agent about this. The agent was slamming the media for doing exactly that - putting this creeps mug all and story all over the place so that the next copycat can be encouraged. :disa: The flip side of that coin is the FBI guy I say on NBC this AM. He said that in an ideal world, yes, this stuff would never be released. However in the real world, in the age of competitive news, tabloids, FOIA, etc, there was no way this was going to be kept quiet, so why not examine it now while its still fresh on everyone's minds?
Why do I feel like saying "F*** you, Jon Stewart"? Even HINTING of downplaying the VT event, bringing it to question, not even 2 days after it happened seems like a sh*tty move.

If your loved one is murdered, you shouldn't bark off comments about how much worse another situation is. Especially right after you lose him or her. Right? Oh, come off of it. :shake: Its this kind of arrogance and self-centeredness that makes the rest of the world hate Americans: "How dare anyone say that anything could possibly compare to what I'm feeling right now!" You should be asking yourself "If I feel this way now about 33 people I didn't know, why don't I feel this way about 150 in Iraq or 300,000 in Darfur?" A little perspective is good from time to time, especially in times of mourning. We should be outraged at all such acts, regardless of where they occured: 33 killed at VT, 52 killed in London bombings on 7/7, 150 killed in Iraq on a given day, 3,000 killed on 9/11, or 300,000 killed in Sudan.

Is VT tragic and horrific? Yes, its a terrible thing. Are we allowed to grieve? Absolutely. Is it the worst thing the world has ever seen? No. Is it the worst the world has seen this year? No. Is it the worst the world has seen this week? No. Is this the last the world will see of this kind of violence? Sadly, no. :(

[VTGreg]

We should be outraged at all such acts, regardless of where they occured: 33 killed at VT, 52 killed in London bombings on 7/7, 150 killed in Iraq on a given day, 3,000 killed on 9/11, or 300,000 killed in Sudan.


I agree. We should be outraged by all of these acts and also by the daily murders in major cities across the nation. Unfortunately, we are innundated with death so much that I think most people have grown numb. Until major steps are made, this numbness will continue to grow.

By the way, just heard this morning that VT is honoring the victims with honorary diplomas. Just a small gesture but still a good decision.

[Jihforce]

By the way, just heard this morning that VT is honoring the victims with honorary diplomas. Just a small gesture but still a good decision.

I was pretty happy to see that. Definitely the least they could have done considering all the grief everyone is going through.

[YellowCoffee]

I agree. The media is teetering very close to the point where they are immortalizing this mad man. They are giving him exactly what he wanted and providing him a power he never had while he was living.

:stupid: I'm really really disappointed with the way the media is handling things. And it's not just one station, it's ALL stations and media outlets. I can't go anywhere w/o seeing the sick gunman's face and his message. He sent the package of videos for the world to see and nbc and all those other stations and doing exactly what he wanted. He speaks of himself as somewhat of a martyr, and as crazy as it seems, there may be some troubled youngsters out there who may relate to his message.

On another note, in San Diego; apparently the Korean churches around the area held a prayer vigil and invited the news stations to cover it. I think this is ridiculous. It's great that a prayer vigil is held, but I'm sure this would not happen if the shooter was not Korean. And why bring out the media? It's like they wanted to deliver an apology as if they were partly responsible. I thought this was a completely counterproductive move by the Korean community.

[ShawnLee]

By the way, just heard this morning that VT is honoring the victims with honorary diplomas. Just a small gesture but still a good decision.
That's a sad but good memorial, that they be so honored.

I hope they name all the toilets at VT after Cho.
"Hold up! I gotta go crap on Cho for a little bit."

[Houdini]

That's a sad but good memorial, that they be so honored.

I hope they name all the toilets at VT after Cho.
"Hold up! I gotta go crap on Cho for a little bit."


:heh:

[VTGreg]

:stupid: I'm really really disappointed with the way the media is handling things. And it's not just one station, it's ALL stations and media outlets. I can't go anywhere w/o seeing the sick gunman's face and his message. He sent the package of videos for the world to see and nbc and all those other stations and doing exactly what he wanted. He speaks of himself as somewhat of a martyr, and as crazy as it seems, there may be some troubled youngsters out there who may relate to his message.

I did see on Fox News this morning that they have made the decision to stop airing his videos. The right decision but still not the classiest move for them to talk about the decision ad nauseum. I haven't seen it plastered all over TV this morning so I don't know which stations have adopted this policy.

Also, ask and you shall receive.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/grthomps/big_vigil.jpg

It's a higher res picture of the vigil.

[Markel]

I was flipping through the channels and caught CNN talking with an FBI agent about this. The agent was slamming the media for doing exactly that - putting this creeps mug all and story all over the place so that the next copycat can be encouraged. :disa:
Well, it didn't take long. :angry: As I was out getting gas, I heard on the radio that a kid in the Jacksonville, Florida, area has been arrested as a result of a plot to kill 100. He wanted to make a bigger name for himself.

[chrissy]

It's too late for it to be off mainstream news broadcasts. With internet nowadays, it's here forever. Any kid who wants to see it, to learn it, to experience it can and will be able to do so.

My question is now, next time a station recieves a package similar to this one, will they do the same and air the pictures? If not, will the gunman just publish to the internet directly?

[VTGreg]

Just an FYI for anyone if they hadn't heard about it. I know many employers are sending out memos.

Tomorrow has been designated Hokie Hope day by Virginia Tech and they are encouraging all those associated with Virginia Tech to wear orange and maroon, the school's colors. They are also extending this invitation to anyone that has been impacted by the tragedy and would like to show their support for the Virginia Tech family.

[guiseppewv]

That's a sad but good memorial, that they be so honored.

I hope they name all the toilets at VT after Cho.
"Hold up! I gotta go crap on Cho for a little bit."

:heh:

I think the best thing that they could do is to never give this person another ounce of recognition. JMHO.

[Napoleon54]

On another note, in San Diego; apparently the Korean churches around the area held a prayer vigil and invited the news stations to cover it. I think this is ridiculous. It's great that a prayer vigil is held, but I'm sure this would not happen if the shooter was not Korean. And why bring out the media? It's like they wanted to deliver an apology as if they were partly responsible. I thought this was a completely counterproductive move by the Korean community.

Methinks it's an attempt to mitigate any backlash against Koreans and their culture. Not an apology, more of a statement of "We're with you and we don't condone what happened just 'cause the dude was Korean. Don't hold it against us."

Just an FYI for anyone if they hadn't heard about it. I know many employers are sending out memos.

Tomorrow has been designated Hokie Hope day by Virginia Tech and they are encouraging all those associated with Virginia Tech to wear orange and maroon, the school's colors. They are also extending this invitation to anyone that has been impacted by the tragedy and would like to show their support for the Virginia Tech family.

Hmm, I dunno if I have any maroon duds left (been wearing 'em for a few days now). Might have to go with orange. :(

[TruckStuff]

Well, it didn't take long. He isn't the first. There were reports of people arrested in 10 states for making threatening references to VT on *Tuesday*. Another half-dozen or so yesterday.

[LPMiller]

you know, there will be copycats regardless of a video on NBC.And this stuff would have come out sooner or later. It's valid news, even if it is insensitive, but it's not like media is designed to be sensitive.

I mean, you think this is bad, reviews some newspapers from the 1800 hunderds and early 1900s. Media today is almost tame compared to some of those sensational headlines and milking of stories. Plus the speculation in those articles and lack of facts were just incredible. And you'd have kids on the street shouting the latest and greatest to sell the papers. In many ways, it was worse.

[YellowCoffee]

I think the first and foremost problem with broadcasting that tape was the fact that, that was the shooter's agenda. To send a tape to NBC so that they would air it. And sure enough, they did exactly what he would've wanted, and why? Obviously to get the juicy story. To make matters worse, how do you think the family members felt? I just read somewhere that many family members are cancelling their planned interviews with NBC in response. (sorry, too lazy to find link)

Also, just because the media was "bad" a long time ago, doesn't justify it still being "bad". That's just my own opinion.

[ski]

Oh, come off of it. :shake: Its this kind of arrogance and self-centeredness that makes the rest of the world hate Americans: "How dare anyone say that anything could possibly compare to what I'm feeling right now!" You should be asking yourself "If I feel this way now about 33 people I didn't know, why don't I feel this way about 150 in Iraq or 300,000 in Darfur?" A little perspective is good from time to time, especially in times of mourning. We should be outraged at all such acts, regardless of where they occured: 33 killed at VT, 52 killed in London bombings on 7/7, 150 killed in Iraq on a given day, 3,000 killed on 9/11, or 300,000 killed in Sudan.
Keep in mind that not everyone is in social commentary mode, able to socialize at the water cooler on coverage like it's just another weekly news story. I'm trying to support several of my friends who lost someone they loved from 2000 miles away from home while I'm on this trip. I am speaking on behalf of their feelings. They're trying to cope. You really think it's arrogant for them to think that Daniel's/Jeremy's/any of the other victims' death is the biggest personal loss (they probably didn't know any of the Iraqi's, sorry) they're dealing with right now? :gle:

At the end of the day, as long as you don't have anyone in your life that you communicate to who take those comments as being insensitive to someone's loss, then okay, say what you want. Just understand my perspective. The people mourning get ticked when people say this event isn't that big of a deal compared to other things, even if their intention is to bring awareness to the "other things".

Simple enough I hope.

[eSDee]

I can understand what you're saying ski. But I saw the show that you quoted and the way that I interpreted his statements was that everyone here in the US is mourning this horrific tragedy and massacre. When he asked his guest the question, he was asking not as to downplay our own mourning, but rather to get advice from someone who has to deal with similar tragedies on a daily basis. In times like these a lot of people don't have a clue how to deal with their emotions. I think he was asking for the advice of someone who is an expert in the subject, as he has experienced it himself.

[ski]

I rescind whatever I said about The Daily Show. What I really meant to respond to was this one guy who I'm trying to shield from my grieving friends, because they'd go apesh*t over his brash comments.

I'm going to take a leave from watching the news and reading other people's comments about it... it's just too much strain.

By the way, if you're interested in showing support, wear orange and maroon (the school's colors) tomorrow
http://www.alumni.vt.edu/images/hokie-hope.gif

[Napoleon54]

Also, ask and you shall receive.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/grthomps/big_vigil.jpg

It's a higher res picture of the vigil.

Thanks VTGreg, that looks a lot better as my desktop. I took the liberty of straightening the horizon, the little bit of an angle had me tilting my head constantly. :heh: I hope that's alright.

http://www.raymondkwan.com/uploader2/files/914/big_vigil_(fixed).jpg

(thanks Ray)

[ski]

Thank you Ray for hosting this. Officially bowing out of this thread to take care of more important business than having internet arguments. God bless those mourning and those moving on.

[TruckStuff]

Keep in mind that not everyone is in social commentary mode, able to socialize at the water cooler on coverage like it's just another weekly news story. I'm trying to support several of my friends who lost someone they loved from 2000 miles away from home while I'm on this trip. I am speaking on behalf of their feelings. They're trying to cope. You really think it's arrogant for them to think that Daniel's/Jeremy's/any of the other victims' death is the biggest personal loss (they probably didn't know any of the Iraqi's, sorry) they're dealing with right now? :gle: Keep in mind that you aren't the only one who has "been there, done that." I was at Texas A&M when Bonfire fell, killing 12 students, many of whom I personally knew. I know exactly what those people are feeling right now, because I felt that way for a week after November 18, 1999. I understand the questions they are facing and the problems they are struggling with, probably more than a lot of people on this forum, including you. So lets skip the whole self-righteous bit, shall we?

You know what finally got me over the hump of dealing with Bonfire? Two things: 1) My faith in a sovereign God, and 2) Realizing that life goes on. Realizing that the world and life is bigger than one tragedy. Realizing that as a student, what I now represented was all the hopes and dreams of those 12 who were killed early that morning. Was I pissed off and sad that week? Of course. Did it help me to get over what I was feeling? No. In fact, the more I dwelt on those people, the worse I felt.

As much as it sucks to hear it now, take it from someone who has been there: life does go on. The best thing that you and your friends can do is move past this terrible event and live your life in a manner that honors the fallen. I know it sucks and I know it isn't easy, and you shouldn't be expected to do so today. But lashing out a freaking TV personality isn't going to help you feel better next week, next month or next year.

[Sirrich3]

UCLA had a large vigil last night on their campus for the VTech students

[ski]

snip
We're on two different pages, and we're both right. Let's just leave it at that. Why try to convince someone that the other is right or wrong on something like this?

[Sirrich3]

Thousands of Virginia Tech students and faculty filled the center of campus Monday to pay solemn tribute to the victims of the campus — pausing for moments of silence on the day classes resumed a week after a student gunman killed 32 people.

Mourners met at the main campus lawn, listening quietly as a bell rung for each of the 32 victims of gunman Seung-Hui Cho, and watched as 32 white balloons were released into the air in their memory.

An antique, 850-pound brass bell was installed on a limestone rostrum for the occasion, brought to Virginia Tech from the city of Salem. The chimes of the bell echoed through the campus covered with memorials and tributes to the students, including flowers, writings and candles.

The moment of silence began at 9:45 a.m., around the time when Cho killed 30 students and faculty members in a classroom building before committing suicide. Monday's tribute lasted 11 minutes, as the bell rang for each of the victims. Each of the balloons was tied with an orange and maroon ribbon.

As the crowd broke up, people started to chant, "Let's Go Hokies"
http://www.yahoo.com/s/563672