HD DVD Standalone Players break 100K mark

[ray]

Sales of HD DVD Standalone players has broken the 100,000 unit mark, putting it ahead of Sony's Blu-Ray standalone players for the time being.

http://www.tgdaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31658&Itemid=118

[InfiniteNothing]

Bluray vid sales are bounds ahead. The reason? the stats don't include the PS3 as bluray sales. Many people are passing on the bluray stand alone when the PS3 is cheaper. I almost don't see either player taking off. It'll be like SACD vs DVD-A

[beatbox32]

This is why I just purchased an upscaling DVD player. Until this gets worked out for a clear winner, I'll manage with plain ol' DVDs.

:cheers:

[Skidude]

Bluray vid sales are bounds ahead. The reason? the stats don't include the PS3 as bluray sales. Many people are passing on the bluray stand alone when the PS3 is cheaper. I almost don't see either player taking off. It'll be like SACD vs DVD-A

Blu-ray vid sales are bounds ahead because releases were bounds ahead. Sales/release were not that far ahead. The volume is still way too low.

The cheapest HD-DVD player is now at just above $300 with 5 free movies. PS3 is still 250 more.

This won't be SACD or DVD-A, because it's A/V, not just A, and it's something that puts rented/purchased movies on par with, or better than, HDTV.

One standard will win, it's way too early to tell which one though.

[InfiniteNothing]

This is why I just purchased an upscaling DVD player. Until this gets worked out for a clear winner, I'll manage with plain ol' DVDs.

:cheers:
Welcome to the forums. I think everyone is going to do the same thing and wait it out. Ironically, since everyone stays on the sidelines, a clear winner never shows.

[ray]

I said it in another thread, and I'll say it again. Betamax was always too expensive compared to VHS. Blu-Ray movies themselves cost more to manufacture than HD DVD movies. Regardless of the number of players that sell, if HD DVD movies are selling for less than Blu-Ray movies I think people will lean towards HD DVD. My 2 cents.

[InfiniteNothing]

Blu-ray vid sales are bounds ahead because releases were bounds ahead. Sales/release were not that far ahead. The volume is still way too low.

If HDDVD has fewer releases, that's just as valid of a loss to bluray. Since it was released earlier that must mean that it's not getting studio support.

[InfiniteNothing]

I said it in another thread, and I'll say it again. Betamax was always too expensive compared to VHS. Blu-Ray movies themselves cost more to manufacture than HD DVD movies. Regardless of the number of players that sell, if HD DVD movies are selling for less than Blu-Ray movies I think people will lean towards HD DVD. My 2 cents.
There's not many releases on both formats. Here's the first one I could find: "Training Day" retails for $29 and sells for $20 on Amazon for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray

DVD goes for $11 and retails at $15

Win for DVD

[Skidude]

If HDDVD has fewer releases, that's just as valid of a loss to bluray. Since it was released earlier that must mean that it's not getting studio support.

It's not that it has fewer releases, it's just had fewer over a small time period. There'll be about 70 releases in the next few months, keeping pace or outstripping BR.

Short-term information doesn't matter. Even if you look now at http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/, you'll see that long-run, HD-DVD has been doing pretty well.


As ray said above. It's going to be price that'll win this race. Right now HD-DVD has a massive head start. The short-term gains from PS3 have worn off, as the market penetration isn't nearly what was expected and marketed. HD-DVD players cost ~30% less than BR, media is about even.

[Skidude]

There's not many releases on both formats. Here's the first one I could find: "Training Day" retails for $29 and sells for $20 on Amazon for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray

DVD goes for $11 and retails at $15

Win for DVD

So what? It means very little that DVD costs less. It sells a bunch more and has economies of scale. Whichever format can generate larger economies of scale faster will win, since they can rachet the price down quicker and appeal to more buyers.

DVD didn't beat VHS in price for at least 2 years. I remember my brother buying a DVD player in 1997 when everybody said it was stupid, that it would fail, his player was $500. Best Buy had maybe 20 DVD's at the 6 month mark. You could go there and find one of their tiny two sided middle-aisle shelves at 1-year. It probably didn't even get a main-floor full aisle until 2 years.

As it stands, HD-DVD costs $300, BR is $450+, a PS3 is $550+ (360+HD-DVD is a lot less).

Add in that HD-DVD utilizes the same equipment and knowledge base, it'll be much cheaper in the long run for both consumers and producers.

[beatbox32]

Welcome to the forums. I think everyone is going to do the same thing and wait it out. Ironically, since everyone stays on the sidelines, a clear winner never shows.

Thanks Infinite. Long time lurker here... I have a feeling that even if people are on the sidelines too long, one will eventually give way. But I wonder if it might be to another technology, like maybe something flash-based. That is, if they can ever get the capacity levels to match optical media.

[DarkFury]

This is why I just purchased an upscaling DVD player. Until this gets worked out for a clear winner, I'll manage with plain ol' DVDs.

:cheers:
:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

Couldn't have said it better myself. :D


Welcome to G|A :thumb:

[zippyjuan]

BluRay also has the lead in disc sales since they have been giving away a free movie with each PS3 along with a coupon for a discounted second film. At first it was "Taladega Nights" and they now ship the James Bond film, "Casino Royale". I agree that the most dominant one in the future will be the least expensive. As people learn that they are both capable of playing high definition movies, all they will care about is price and maybe features.
I remember buying my first CD player- one of the early ones after the price came down a bit- and there was one rack of CDs in the record store- pop music on one side and classical music on the other side of the rack. Maybe twenty or so titles of each. I am not going in early on the HDDVD thing. As I said somewhere else, there really aren't any titles out there right now I would be interested in (except maybe the "Fifth Element").

I remember that it took until "The Matrix" came out for larger numbers of people wanted to get a DVD player- to be able to watch the cool effects of that film in better detail than VHS offered. Right now, there are still not enough HDTVs in people's homes to make them want to get a HD DVD player to go along with them.

[cheapie]

the problem with both formats is that there isn't a clear reason to make the leap into the technology.

CDs were clearly better than tapes. DVDs much better than VHS.

why do i need HD-DVD? i'm not really seeing any problem with the current format and is the new stuff really that much better?

i'm not saying it's not, just that there doesn't seem to be any real technological leap between the old and new technology.

[DarkFury]

the problem with both formats is that there isn't a clear reason to make the leap into the technology.

CDs were clearly better than tapes. DVDs much better than VHS.

why do i need HD-DVD? i'm not really seeing any problem with the current format and is the new stuff really that much better?

i'm not saying it's not, just that there doesn't seem to be any real technological leap between the old and new technology.
Actually the leap is there... with High definition TVs over 42 inches, however now with upscaling DVD players, that leap isn't as much as it would have been without them.

Pretty much, an upscaling DVD player kinda takes most of the steam out of forcing us to buy into High Definition DVDs for or HDTVs now. If they want to get their push on us now, they are gonna have to give us something "extra" that we can't have currently with regular DVDs...or else we just ain't budging into the new technology.

[Skidude]

Upscaling DVD players attempt to extrapolate data from existing data to generate what it thinks should be there. Essentially, it makes a best guess and then fills in the blanks. Some upscalers do this better than others (and are usually more expensive). However, taking content at 480p and trying to extrapolate data to 720p or 1080i/p is not going to be nearly as accurate in color, sharpness, and overall quality as having a 720p/1080i/1080p source.

A perfect example of this would be to take a look at this page.


http://xylon.haloapplications.com/


Compare some of the movies there and then honestly say that there is no difference. There is and it is massive. However, people don't seem to think there is because they either aren't educated about it, or look at BBY or CC and don't see a huge difference. That's because BBY and CC aren't optimal viewing conditions.

Furthermore, the penetration for HDTV is still relatively small so most people don't think (and are right) that HD-DVD/BR don't make a difference. However, for anybody with an HDTV, they shouldn't think that.

More or less SD-DVD is like having a smuged, dirty, and greasy plate of glass over your perfect display. HD-DVD/BR is like Windex on crack.

[ski]

Valid question: When will Netflix/Blockbuster offer high-def movie rentals? Which will they choose, and how much will each disc cost to run?

[Skidude]

This is interesting


http://www.udn.com/2007/4/16/NEWS/STOCK/STO5/3804769.shtml


If you can read (or have something translate), WalMart just ordered 2 million HD-DVD drives. Coming to a wally world near you, HD-DVD drives under $200.

Another thing I found interesting is that a few industry people have said that it takes 5 PS3's to equate to 1 HD-DVD player in disc sales. Sony better start selling their 10 million PS3's to catch up, and sell them for dirt cheap because once Wally World enters the competition they have lost.

[DarkFury]

Upscaling DVD players attempt to extrapolate data from existing data to generate what it thinks should be there. Essentially, it makes a best guess and then fills in the blanks. Some upscalers do this better than others (and are usually more expensive). However, taking content at 480p and trying to extrapolate data to 720p or 1080i/p is not going to be nearly as accurate in color, sharpness, and overall quality as having a 720p/1080i/1080p source.

A perfect example of this would be to take a look at this page.


http://xylon.haloapplications.com/


Compare some of the movies there and then honestly say that there is no difference. There is and it is massive. However, people don't seem to think there is because they either aren't educated about it, or look at BBY or CC and don't see a huge difference. That's because BBY and CC aren't optimal viewing conditions.

Furthermore, the penetration for HDTV is still relatively small so most people don't think (and are right) that HD-DVD/BR don't make a difference. However, for anybody with an HDTV, they shouldn't think that.

More or less SD-DVD is like having a smuged, dirty, and greasy plate of glass over your perfect display. HD-DVD/BR is like Windex on crack.
Key concept here... "good enough" quality upgrade considering the cost of buying a real HD solution.

We understand that it isn't "perfect"... but it is "good enough" for now considering the cost versus performance of the real deal. :D

When prices drop down to under $250 per unit, I'm sure that more folks will buy into High Definition DVD players.