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redcolours

05-04-2007, 04:40 PM

heres a background:

looking to get my feet wet in DSLR cameras. Pentax K10D was my choice, until the D40x came out. I was almost ready to get it, until i stumbled upon the cameta D80's. Not much more $$$, but i get a more serious camera. Some of the bundles look good (and some are just frills), but im not sure if im getting a really good deal, or if i can do better if i bought separately (body, lens, etc).

i know what im gonna use the camera for: mostly indoor settings, portraits, still life. Im NOT gonna do much of outdoor photography with it, and im not gonna lug it around and start taking touristy pics. Really id rather just start with something like an 18-55mm lens, and maybe that 50mm f/1.8D lens. Maybe (and a BIG maybe) jump to a 55-200mm or a 70-300mm much later on. Yeah, im not big on zoom, as most other people seem to obsess about. maybe later, but not for me right now.

ive been reading up on lenses (nikon site, ken rockwell, bythom, etc) that nikon makes for their DSLRs, and it seems that a stock 18-55mm or 20-70mm will do me just fine, and for added measure the 50mm f/1.8D lens will be perfect for what i plan on doing. Also, the wide-angle and fish eye lenses seem right up my alley if i ever plan on going outside with it.

any specific choices you guys prefer? any thing you would recommend? even if its muy expensive, at least i can go from there, and find cheaper alternatives. Are tamron and sigma lenses good nikon replacements?

im probably going to enroll in some basic/intermediate photography class to learn more about optics, lenses and such, but im interested in what you guys already are doing/using/drooling for.

thanks!

ray

05-04-2007, 05:20 PM

I had a Nikon D50 and absolutely loved it. I just upgraded to a Nikon D40x and love that one too. Here are the lenses that I currently own in the order that I use them based on usage time:

1) 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor (included with my D50). This is my primary lens and I use this one for the majority of my photos. It's the standard lens with most of the DSLRs from Nikon.

2) 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor (included with my D50). I use this lens once in a while when the zoom comes in handy.

3) 70-300mm f/4-5.6G AF Zoom-Nikkor (included with my Nikon N65 35mm film camera). Once in a blue moon I will break this guy out for some sports photography. But again, that's once in a blue moon.

4) 50mm f/1.8D AF Nikkor. I used to use this prime lens all the time when I had my Nikon N65 film camera, but since I went DSLR this has been on the backburner (see the autofocus notes below).

5) 28-80mm f/3.3-5.6G AF Zoom-Nikkor (included with my Nikon N65 35mm film camera). I don't even use this one anymore. It collects dust in the closet.

Now, onto some very important notes when you are shopping for your lenses. All of my lenses are designed for Autofocus and Manual Focus. However, the D40x does not support autofocus on lenses tagged with "AF". The D40x will only autofocus the AF-s and AF-I lenses. The D50, on the other hand, was able to autofocus with the AF lenses.

My recommendation to you is first and foremost to get the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor. You will not regret having this as your primary lens.

A prime lens is great too, so if you're not sold on a zoom lens like a 55-200mm, then you could shoot for the 50mm f/1.4D AF Nikkor or the 50mm f/1.8D AF Nikkor. Just remember that these prime lenses will NOT autofocus with the D40x, though it might with the D80.

Last note regarding the Nikon DSLRs. I am pretty sure the majority of the Nikon cameras have a focal multiplier of 1.5. This means that a 50mm prime lens would actually have a focal length of 75mm.

Zippy has one of the newer Nikon cameras too so I'd wait for his take on things before you take the plunge into digital slr!

ray

05-04-2007, 05:23 PM

Also, I forgot to mention. If you have not purchased it already, I highly highly recommend a book titled "Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera" by Bryan Peterson. It's a fantastic source of basic tips and suggestions on taking photographs.

ray

05-04-2007, 05:28 PM

Dpreview.com has a nice little comparison feature on their website. I'm sure you've already read about the differences between the D80 and D40x, but here's a nice side by side view of it

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=nikon_d40x%2Cnikon_d80&show=all

ray

05-04-2007, 05:32 PM

edited cuz i'm a moron

TruckStuff

05-05-2007, 05:29 AM

I just purchased a D50 from Cameta this week. I used my boss's D70 when we went on vacation last year and loved it, so I decided I would get my own. After doing a lot of reading and talking to folks who had used these cameras, the D50 was the best choice for me. I was going back and forth between the D70 and the D50. D80 was really more than I wanted to spend. I talked to a lady who had both the D50 and the D80 and loved both, but said the D50 yielded slightly better image quality in certain situations. Of course, if you are shooting in RAW format, compression, etc are irrelevant. When I went to a local camera shop, the guy there raved about the D50 and lamented the fact that he couldn't sell it retail anymore. He said it was the best camera of its size in a long time. At the end of the day, I couldn't justify spending another $300-$400 dollars for the jump in megapixels from the D50 to the D80.

As an FYI, when Nikon put out the D40 and D40x, they put a smaller motor in it to lighten them up. This means that the motor in the camera cannot drive the actuators in a lens for auto-focusing, so if you want auto-focus features, you have to get an AF lens.

zippyjuan

05-05-2007, 11:06 AM

I have the D80. The D40 and D40X were released after the D80 was and they are more of an intro camera- smaller size, fewer features meaning less total control over the picture. But not everyone will need to do all that. With the D40, the selection of lenses is limited to the newer ones- if you have older Nikon lenses you want to use, they won't work. Agan, not necessariliy anything wrong with that. I don't plan on purchasing the older lenses myself. Both are capable of taking great pictures so it comes down to budget and features. The D80 has more growth potential as you learn more about photography and what you want to do with it.

How a camera feels in your hands can be important. If you can, I would suggest you find a store where you can pick up one of each and see what you like. Some like the smallness of the D40 others prefer the feel of the D80.

Lenses- if you are mostly indoors, you are going to want a fairly fast (low number f/ stop) lens to be able to work well in the lower light you find indoors. Wider angles are nice because they allow more area into your image but they also can distort an image more. They are not typically very good for portrait- for that you would want a more "normal" to longer lens. WIth 35mm photography, the prefered lens was 185mm. Longer lenses also have more shallow depth of field so you can blur distracting backgrounds more easliy to give more attention to your subject. I wasn't sure what I wanted so I got mine with teh 18- 135mm lens. It can be a little slow for indoors but it has a great range of use and is a sharp lens. I think the other "kit" lens is the 18- 55mm. Usually they knock of a little bit from the seperate prices if you buy as a kit. But don't get one of those bundles that includes say a tripod and some filters or whatnot. They are usually pretty crappy. You will need a memory card- at least one GB. They do not come with one so inlcude that in your budget.

Demo or refurbished can mean anything. It is a camera that was opened and returned for whatever reason.

Sorry- I have to run off right now- will add more later.

redcolours

05-05-2007, 03:33 PM

thanks, guys! :thumbup:

i got the D80 (body only) from cameta, and the price i got it for was decent. we'll see how it turns out when i get it.

for the lens, i got the Nikon 50mm f/1.8D AF from JandR (via amazon). Its odd, but shipping is more expensive thru the actual website than it is thru amazon.

at any rate, this will start me off. I know, i coulda gotten a d40x kit for far less, and get pretty much the same things done, but after reading all the reviews i can find on both cameras, figuring out what i want to do later on, and considering the price at hand, i decided the D80 was a better deal. It may be a bit more now, but it will stop me from second guessing myself if i shoulda just ponied up for what i really wanted to begin with (and not "just settled"). Knowing i got what i wanted, id be set, and not worry about anything else.
besides, its whats been on my wishlist at my website for months now! :P when i get it, i can cross it off, and move on! :)

as for lenses (As this thread title asks),

1)if i should just get ONLY ONE OTHER LENS, what would be better for general purpose shooting? 18-55mm or 18-135mm? im torn right now.

2) if im NOT getting only one lens, what bigger zoom lens is best to get for a small budget? I know i said id prefer to use this camera indoors, but sometimes i may have the itch to bring it outdoors, shoot long distances during the day. Im thinking of getting the new 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED IF AF-S DX VR lens. For $250 its real cheap for a VR lens. For about half that (around $120) i can get a 70-300mm f/4-5.6G AF lens. Though it isnt VR, the price is tempting.

2.1) Is the extra $120 for the VR function justifiable enough to get it? Or is the 18-135mm more than enough for casual outdoor shoots? (according to your own experiences)

the 18-200mm VR lens is nice, but for $900 its just way too rich for my blood. maybe if im lugging it around, it would make more sense to get it, so i dont have to keep switching lenses.

2.2) how close can i get to a subject using a 55-200mm lens, compared to an 18-55mm lens? the smaller the number the closer i can get to the subject, right? Basically my question is can i get away with using just a 55-200mm lens for general purpose shooting (and simply step back further to get people in a shot)?

3) also, should i stick with nikon lenses exclusively? im sure thats preferable, but can Sigma or Tamron lenses do better? Or are they just crap? I ask this because both companies offer 18-200mm lenses also with image stabilization, for far less money. Whats the drawback in getting them?

4) am i even asking the right questions??? he he he... being a DSLR n00b, im not that savvy with photography lingo just yet, but im getting the concepts.

i guess you guys can decipher that im on a budget (small, as it is). Its basically boiling down to what other one lens can i get that i will get the most use out of.

more suggestions and inputs, and even personal photography experiences are most welcome! thanks again!

TruckStuff

05-05-2007, 04:12 PM

1)if i should just get ONLY ONE OTHER LENS, what would be better for general purpose shooting? 18-55mm or 18-135mm? im torn right now. If you get only one other lens get the 18-200 lens you mentioned below. Ritz has it for $750.
3) also, should i stick with nikon lenses exclusively? im sure thats preferable, but can Sigma or Tamron lenses do better? Or are they just crap? I ask this because both companies offer 18-200mm lenses also with image stabilization, for far less money. Whats the drawback in getting them? Every review I have ever read of the Sigma/Tamron lenses said they were fine for the price, but at the end of the day, they got traded for an equivalent Nikkor lens. You will be more satisfied with the Nikkor lenses then anything else.

<edit>
Re media: Newegg has a 2Gb Transcend 150x SD card for $20 right now. I bought one for my camera then after talking to some coworkers, went back and bought another + 3 more for them. ;) Really good deal.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820163158
</edit>

zippyjuan

05-05-2007, 08:04 PM

Compared to the 18- 135mm lens, I think that the 18- 200mm lens may be overpriced. The 18- 135mm (which is what I use) can be found for about half of what the 18- 200mm VR sells for (if you can find one). Here at B+H (a very good site for gear) they have it for $329 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=449087&is=USA&addedTroughType=search According to reviews, the 135 is also sharper than the 200 so for the extra $300 or so you gain 75mm of reach- not really much- plus the vibration reduction system. As far as I know, the Sigma does NOT include a vibration reduction system for their 18- 200mm lens. The 18- 135mm lens was $300 when purchased as a kit with the D80 body. The 18- 55 lens is supposed to be excellent too, but for an all- around, use all the time lens, I like the range you get with the 18- 135. They both have the same lowest aperature of 3.5 so they will be the same in lower light situations.

I would use this setup for a while until you save more money and also learn more about what you may really want for extra lenses. My second lens was the Sigma 10- 20mm because I wanted a good wide angle lens. It is about as good as the Nikon zoom (12- 24mm), goes a little wider, and cost half as much. You can wait to see if you would really need a longer zoom if you went with the 18- 135. Your camera has a nice sharp ten megapixels to work with so you can effectively increase your zoom range through cropping your pictures. It is better to have one or two good quality lenses than a few cheaper ones.

Since you have ordered the 50mm lens, you can later turn that into a macro lens easily and fairly cheaply by adding a lens reversal ring. The BR2A costs about $30 and lets you attach the lens backwards using the filter threads on the lens. Exposure will have to be manual, but you will have to use manual exposure with the 50mm lens anyways.

NewEgg.com is probably your best bet for memory cards. I got mine there. I have a pair of 2 gb cards. The camera uses Secure Digital- but you probably already know that.

redcolours

05-06-2007, 08:28 AM

yep, i saw the 18-200mm VR lens at ritz but its still out of stock. at $750, thats the cheapest around.
whats funny is that wolf camera and 1 other camera store uses the same exact site template - just different site name. thats not to say theyre not good to buy from (reseller ratings show them to have good service), just that they may simply be outsourced resellers of the same warehouse who gets stuff in bulk. That may be the why some of their prices are cheap.
tempting, really. but though i'd like to keep things simple, my budget for lenses wont allow it. maybe when i make better bux...:) sooo...

im thinking either just get the 18-135mm alone, OR the 18-55mm with a 55-200mm VR lens. either choice, thats about the limit of my budget. costs less than half of the price for the 18-200mm VR lens too.

Zippy: thanks for the macro lens reversal tip on that 50mm lens. thats one major thing id like to use the camera for (aside from portraits).

probably will make the decision later this evening.

clutchy

05-09-2007, 08:52 PM

hey you found the lens that everyone should start shooting with when they are new to photography!

50 1.8d

although for digitals it really should be the 35 f2.

for other lenses, i'd recommend the 18-70 although it looks to have been replaced by the 18-135.

the 18-55 is ok but it has a really small aperture when it's zoomed 5.6 i think and it gets to the far end pretty quickly, NOT an indoor w/o flash lens.

for the perfect indoor general shooting lens i'd recommend the 17-55 2.8 constant 2.8 thoughout and great quality. it's about a thousand bucks though... primes are great fun and really improve your eye.

i have in order of use.

18-70
50 1.8
45 2.8p
135 2.8
sigma 70-300.
and also an sb-800

wishlist! in order of wishiness

17-55
70-200
10.5 fish
35f2
85f1.4

redcolours

05-09-2007, 09:22 PM

THANKS! :)

yeah, as i mentioned in the other thread, i got a 50mm f1.8D lens (came yesterday). the hour and a half of fiddling around with it today was a HOOT! very refreshing, as ive been used to zoom so much. Its funny cuz i found myself looking for it - i had to keep reminding myself this isnt a zoom lens! he he....

i love it - it feels more natural, as if what im seeing in real life is the same as what i see thru the lens.

i did order a 55-200mm VR lens also - should be arriving tomorrow. I figured i can use a zoom lens, and though i coulda gotten a non-VR lens for half the price, the VR can come in handy when im shooting hand-held. besides, For $237 its a terrific buy. what happened to the 18-200mm VR lens may happen to this one - months of back-order (amazon is now sold out of the 55-200mm for 4-6 weeks after its been on the site for a month), and you have gougers and ebay rats selling themused for a much higher price.

next lens i may get is possibly the 18-135mm, for wide-angle shooting option. pretty pricey though, so thats gonna be a while - ive saturated my DSLR budget at the moment. :P

nice wishlist, clutchy!

guys, for outdoors what lens do you end up using more?

thanks again! i appreciate the insights you guys provide.

clutchy

05-10-2007, 08:36 AM

zippyjuan

05-10-2007, 09:02 AM

That's the problem once you go DSLR. There is always something else you think you want. I started with the D80 and 18- 135mm lens. Then added a Sigma 10- 20mm for wide angle. Most recently added a Nikon 70- 300 VR (both about $500 each). Plus memory cards (two 2gb cards plus another on the way), a bag (needed a second since the 70- 300 VR wouldn't fit in the first one I bought) a cirtular polarizer (fits the 18- 135mm and the 70- 300mm VR), a spare battery (the one with the D80 lasts a long time but I like to have a back-up just in case) and now have an SB 600 flash on its way. Plus a lens reversal ring for a couple of older Nikon lenses I still had (24mm f/2.4 and 50mm f/1.8 from my film days). Just since September. I should have things pretty well covered now.

The shots I have seen with the 55- 200mm VR looked very good for a lens in that price range. Check out B+H Photo. They are a good place for things and have that lens in stock for $249. With that you may want to save up for the Sigma since the 18- 135 would give you a bit of overlap in range.

It is still new, but the two lens I am presently using most are the 10- 20mm (love wide angle) and the 70- 300 VR. I will take the 18- 135mm when I travel for its wide range of possiblilties.

If you do not have one yet, I would suggest a micro fiber cloth for cleaning smudges off your lens.

redcolours

05-23-2007, 10:42 PM

wow - its been almost 2 weeks sice i got the D80. and you guys are correct - extras can snowball, and it did!

since then i got:
1) a battery grip,
2) 2 extra batteries,
3) a decent tripod,
4) clear filters for each lens (instead of a UV lens protector),
5) a 4GB SDHC card (which i found out only the D80 can read - all my other SD readers cant read it. now i gotta get an SDHC reader),
6) an SLR backpack (which is now my SLR central),
7) cleaning materials (lens pen, micro fiber cloth, etc),
8) and a partridge in a pear tree.

not to mention another lens. i realized i dont have anything for a wideangle option, so i thought i can get a cheap 24mm f/2.8D lens used, at a local camera store (yes they still exist!). When i came back, it was gone! bummer, so instead i got a used 18-55mm for cheap. not the fastest, but as im finding out what you guys have said, its great for general purpose shooting. Plus it complements the 55-200VR lens i already got.

my next purchases? a couple of books, backdrop kits, maybe an SB-600, a remote, maybe that wide angle fast lens i missed, a photography class....

zippyjuan

05-24-2007, 01:35 AM

Ah, he has the disease! And there is no known cure for it.

You probably did not need the battery grip and two extra batteries. I have one extra battery and never need it- unless I forgot to recharge. The battery lasts a very long time. I prefer to use a couple of smaller memory cards (standard 2gb- I had two and now have three). I do sometimes have problems with places reading them if I go to a local drugstore to have a couple of things printed. Your SDHC definately won't work in them. NewEgg had best SD card prices. Smaller ones can read faster and you lose less if they fail or you lose one. You don't really need super high speed cards since there is a limit on how fast the D80 can write- but they may be faster (depending on your card reader) to upload to your computer.

Watch for dust inside your camera. There may be some from when it was made and packed. You will know if you see spots on your images in the same place. Carefully blow them out. Then be careful changing lenses to let more in.

I don't often have filters on my lenses- they can add flare or distortion. Your lens hoods will offer protection and help shield some glare from hitting your lens. I do have a circular polarizer I use sometimes. At his point, I would wait on buying more lenses. Use what you have and become familiar with your camera. And save some money. You want the best lenses you can afford to get the best quality pictures. This will also let you find out what you may be lacking in lenses.

On a DX sized camera sensor like the D80 has, a 24mm lens is really not very wide- it will be the same as a 32mm lens on a 35mm camera. Pretty close to what is considered "normal".

I did find that the D80 for me had a tendency to overexpose in Matrix metering so I usually set my EV exposure adjustment to -0.7. That is the square button with the +/- on it near the shutter release. Hold it down and use the scroll wheel on the front to change the value. You probably know that the - range darkens your image and the + will lighten your result.

So now read your manual, throw on the lens (your battery should be charged by now) and go get shooting! And don't come back until your memory card is full! (about 700 or so pic on the one you got if you are shooting JPeg fine). Then you have to edit through them all. I do my deleting on my computer rather than as I go along shooting.