So, Audrey is turning 13...

[chrissy]

tomorrow.

And she is already giving me headaches. Well, she always has but this is the current headache of the week/month/year.

Two years ago, she was placed in a magnet school program - we entered her into the lottery for that- and she was happy and we were happy. She wanted to be challenged and she got it.

She went from having all A's and a B in math to struggling with C's. She swore it was first year in middle school jitters/unorganized and promised to do better.

So, we allowed her to stay in this year also.

One week left, she is not the girl she used to be. She isn't turning in homework- in fact she will do it and not turn it in.
She doesn't study for tests. She doesn't want to stay after school and retest - I force her to do this anyway.

We had a sit down earlier this semester with her core teachers (english, history, math and science) and since then, she is failing to turn in more homework in all her classes not just the normal history and math. And even her "gimme an A" keyboarding class (piano type keyboarding) where all she has to do is fill out a paper saying she practiced the night before, yeah, she hasn't turned in those so she is acutally failing because of not turning in her practice logs!

I have talked, cried, made deals, and she doesn't respond. Besides scouts she isn't involved in anything. She was in Lego club but I pulled her out before Christmas because of her grades falling. This has been an ongoing thing. I can't begin to tell you how much I want to strangle her! I can't figure out how to get it across to her that this is it!

She won't be going back to the magnet school next year. It's her loss. She is mad at me because she won't go on to her choice HS where she can start pre-med. She wants to be a Vet and it would have been sweet for her to start her classes in HS. But like I told her, she can't handle MS, how does she even think she can handle pre-med in HS!!

I just don't get it. I don't remember having issues with transitioning from ES to MS. We didn't have a MS really - k-6 in one building and 7-12 in another. Any experiences? Any advice? She is such a smart girl and to see her distroying her grades is killing me. I don't mind straight Cs - that would be passing :) It seems like she doesn't care to pass this year.

[RoniMan]

Well, as a tutor, I see this happening often. Usually, the reason is b/c either 1) the teacher(s) aren't challenging them as much as they used to. or 2) it's too challenging, and she's scared to tell you guys that.

I have a student in a similar situation. Except that she's in HS already. It's killing her parents to watch her flush everything down the toilet. But the only thing I can do to help is to be there for both the studnet and the parents. She and I have built up a rapport where the parents tell me things they want me to address with her, and I can do so without having her feel like I'm "nagging" her.

Without further information, I can't help you anymore than that. However, I can say that a student usually finds it difficult to talk to a parent, b/c they think the parents "won't understand". The situation sounds like there's some issue not being addressed, but doesn't seem like she wants to talk it over with you. So perhaps an outside 3rd party can help?

[chrissy]

(I was hoping you would see this :p )

That is what I think we did! We nagged her to death! I would only check her grades once a week, but as she got worse, I checked more often. We have an "intouch" system online we can check grades and email teachers that parents and students can use.

We have involved the school Dean and staff. She hasn't opened up to them anymore than us. One thing I did get out of her was she used to feel good about herself- in ES she was called to help with younger classes and do special things and now, she is just another face in a very large crowd. Everyone there is just as smart or smarter than she is and she doesn't "feel smart" anymore.

That was/is all I get out of her. I don't know what to tell her except that she has to get used to it - it's a big world and she isn't going to be special to everyone in it! Just special to a select few that matter.

[LPMiller]

I would wonder if A) she is turning into a classic underachiever gifted student, which would be due in part to not being interested enough in what they are teaching, or B)some sort of learning problem/vision problem that's cropping up. Either things are too easy for her and it's boring the snot out of her, or there is something getting in the way that even she isn't really aware of, like dyslexia. Kids don't just stop doing well because they are teenagers, there is usually something going on, and she may not even know what that is.

Another thing could be some sort of depression/self esteem issue

Clearly, nagging/yelling isn't working, which implies to me there is something else going on.

[gear02]

I don't think nagging helps. I've been in that situation where my parents keep nagging me for everything and the natural reaction is not to do what they say but to do the complete opposite. I think there's some similar reaction happening with her.

[InfiniteNothing]

It sounds like there's something on her mind that's distracting her. Hard to say what but sometimes things like that can be very consuming. Your best chance is to teach her that throwing yourself into your work is a very common copping technique. That's my vote.


She isn't turning in homework- in fact she will do it and not turn it in.

Does she do the work right or is she so frustrated she just gives up thinking her work is worthless.

[Maarchk]

Send her to Roniman! he can help anyone...
well maybe. But a 3rd party outside of school authorities is probably a good step.
telling someone they aren't special anymore is a painful reality. I blew out curves in grade school and high school if i cared about the class and enjoyed it. but some classes both challenging and easy that i didn't really have an interest in, i would get a b or a, but just barely. I'd usually see a C and be like oh no, and work my tail off for the last bit of the term.
one thing that really depressed me in college and high school, was that my parents only stopped me when i had a bad grade. They didn't really appreciate my A's. They just noticed my b-. And that bummed me. I felt little motivation because success was expected. Do you reward her when she does well? I dont mean, "hey you got an A, here's 20 dollars". I know some parents and kids make that deal, but i think thats going too far. But my grandfather used to go find my report card, and said, "i'm really proud of you. When i was in school, my grades weren't nearly this good. This is a very special thing, and you have a great gift and a great responsibility". And that was it, no money, no prizes, just some honest respect and appreciation and that totally made it for me. After he passed away and my parents didn't really take note of my grades, they began to slip cause i really didn't care. They are just letters to me. Not a measure of anything. I spent more time doing sports, being a Resident Advisor, and being social because thats what i cared about.
just some thoughts... Good luck!

[chrissy]

It sounds like there's something on her mind that's distracting her. Hard to say what but sometimes things like that can be very consuming. Your best chance is to teach her that throwing yourself into your work is a very common copping technique. That's my vote.

Does she do the work right or is she so frustrated she just gives up thinking her work is worthless.

heh, her life is changing every day - she discovered boys this year, but no boyfriend. (We talked about how she has two dads and that is plenty of men in her life for right now :) ) Her father and step mom are expecting twins this July. But nothing more than what other kids her age are dealing with.
copping for her is writing poems. She is rather good at it. I have explained that doing the hw and turning it in could be a good thing - and when she is "bored" a great thing to do...

She is doing the hw correctly. We go over the math work nightly because that is what she has issues with the most. She is doing rather well this year but bombing the tests. :shrug: Her other work is done well also - she is great at doing reports. She does the minimum and refuses to do more than expected. She doesn't see the point - she used to in ES. It's almost like she is disenchanted in school and the allure of MS dreams have turned to dust.



Do you reward her when she does well? I dont mean, "hey you got an A, here's 20 dollars". I know some parents and kids make that deal, but i think thats going too far. But my grandfather used to go find my report card, and said, "i'm really proud of you. When i was in school, my grades weren't nearly this good. This is a very special thing, and you have a great gift and a great responsibility".

We do make a point of letting them know they have done a good job. We have never rewarded good grades with money. She gets an allowance of $20/mo and $5 for texting on her cell. That's plenty of money for her age.

I need to say we are proud of her now! In the past two weeks, she has done 4 projects that included reports, special presentations and such. This is normal for this school. A lot of poster board has made it's way on the buses this year and last. It's a lot. I don't remember having this much in all my HS years combined.

I really feel (looking at her room, backpack and her apperance) that she just wasn't ready for this work load - it's an intense program with an extra hr of classwork (her classes start at 7 when her zoned school starts at 8). < my assumption > She is overwhelmed by the load and feels like she doesn't want to disappoint me and Donnie. As smart and bright as she is, she doesn't have the orginizational skills to pull off the extra load of work. </ end assumption>

I talked to her today about it and told her that it would be okay to admit that - and strong of her to realize that this just isn't for her. I am trying to give her an out she will be okay with. This is the last week of school with finals next week. Tomorrow I am going to get her paperwork to pull her from the program and start the enrollment of her zoned school.

I know it's for the best - we talked about this also today. She wants to be homeschooled :spock: . She is flat out saying she doesn't want to go to the zoned school. So, now a new issue :toxic:

I really, truely wasn't this much trouble growing up. Really, I wasn't.

[RoniMan]

Sorry, just got home.

Anyways, from the sound of things, you've stumbled on a couple of important issues.

1. She's disenchanted. However, this is not an issue that developed overnite. I'm not saying to place blame on you or anything, but rather to let you know that she's probably been giving "signs" (whether through poems or her actions). The idea is to try to find the source.

2. You've said everything you can say at this point. She hasn't opened up to the dean or any of the staff b/c she associates them with "parents/authority figures". So she will not tell them anything more than what she'll tell you.

Disenchantment with the schools is not an unusual thing for students this day and age. Many of them feel the teachers don't put any effort in, and they watch reality tv shows and see people succeed and they wonder why they even bother.

The fact that she doesn't want to go to the zoned school tells me there's something has happened at the current school that's affecting her. Something that's affected her "status"/"coolness".
The best thing to do is to continue your support, b/c she's gonna test you before she confides in you.

At this point of the school year, there's not a lot you can do to change her grades. If you want, you can hire a tutor to try to catch her up with her work for next year. However, it'll be a bonus if you can find a tutor that can relate to her, but is mature enough to be a good role model in her life.

btw, the usual disclaimer: not a professional, just my opinion developed from my experiences.

[Pemolis]

... she's also 13...

Kids get put under ALLOT more Stress nowadays with no real understanding of how to cope and deal with it (just as stressed out as you are in this thread.. you came here for solace... where does she go..)

[oblongmelon]

I swear girls in their teenage years are possibly THE WORST thing to ever happen to mothers. Hold your ground Chrissy, stay firm, and remember-you're her teacher and her mother-not her friend. Some day she'll thank you for it. In the mean time, you'll both shed LOADS of tears until she realizes that you did everything best for her. If she messes up-she'll have to learn from that. I've been through it-and I'm happy to report that all the nonsense actually stops as fast as it starts when she gets a bit older.

[Airencracken]

This may or may not be part of it, but as someone who has been in the position (or one quite similar) to the situation your daughter is in I'm going to say a few things.

People above me have made some excellent points about the level of stress and expectations that plague the lives of youth today. I don't think I need to reiterate those points.

I think the main factor here is the disenchantment. From what you're saying it sounds like your daughter is a bright, idealistic young person that had a lot of lofty goals. That's precisely the problem. Most people that are cynical are former idealists. That may be a factor here.

I know that when I reached that age I started to really analyze the world around me and it really didn't match what I was told it was or what it was supposed to be. I lost a lot of respect for authority figures that told me elaborate lies about reality.

You see what I mean? Idealists have a long way to fall to reality.

[renovation]

i wish you and your daughter can work this all out .
have you thought maybe she has got into a new group of children she is hanging around .
she may just going though a change in her mental thoughts and boy crazy and school coming in 2nd .now a days we give them computer games, and cell phones .i think i read a while back you are a arm service family .maybe she thinks dad may be sent out and worryed about this . if im wrong sorry . i know when i was young i lost my intrest in school becouse i took on a job .and my boss felt it was ok for me to work .(he took me on as a son ) and i seen what seem like dollars at the time . when i woke up it was to late .and to this day i cant stand a class room . its like jail to me . and im 52 years old now .have my own companys have a daughter who is a middle school teach . and wish i could of seen my error as a youth .

[johnnymk]

Most people that are cynical are former idealists.

That's very interesting. I am going to ponder that.

[chrissy]

Sorry, just got home.

Anyways, from the sound of things, you've stumbled on a couple of important issues.

1. She's disenchanted. However, this is not an issue that developed overnite. I'm not saying to place blame on you or anything, but rather to let you know that she's probably been giving "signs" (whether through poems or her actions). The idea is to try to find the source.

2. You've said everything you can say at this point. She hasn't opened up to the dean or any of the staff b/c she associates them with "parents/authority figures". So she will not tell them anything more than what she'll tell you.

Disenchantment with the schools is not an unusual thing for students this day and age. Many of them feel the teachers don't put any effort in, and they watch reality tv shows and see people succeed and they wonder why they even bother.

The fact that she doesn't want to go to the zoned school tells me there's something has happened at the current school that's affecting her. Something that's affected her "status"/"coolness".
The best thing to do is to continue your support, b/c she's gonna test you before she confides in you.

At this point of the school year, there's not a lot you can do to change her grades. If you want, you can hire a tutor to try to catch her up with her work for next year. However, it'll be a bonus if you can find a tutor that can relate to her, but is mature enough to be a good role model in her life.

btw, the usual disclaimer: not a professional, just my opinion developed from my experiences.

She goes to her dads in the summer - he has already mentioned a tutor. It's so weird, because she comes home with questions about things that were talked about in class. (That's something the teachers said- she never asks questions. Except for science. She participates in that class). If we don't know the answer, she hops on Google and we all learn or learn again the information.

She has it in her head - the answers and the knowledge, she just doesn't want to share it. She ACTS dumb. She is blonde and she uses that as an excuse - we tell her that she broke that mold a long time ago and she can't fool us. :)

Her status/coolness - wow. hmm... The only thing I can think of is that she is on probation for her grades last semester. She had one D last semester and she was put on notice this sememster to get her grades up or she wouldn't be invited back to the magnet program.




... she's also 13...

Kids get put under ALLOT more Stress nowadays with no real understanding of how to cope and deal with it (just as stressed out as you are in this thread.. you came here for solace... where does she go..)

I have few expectation for Audrey (and the boys too). Some are given, please and thank yous and cleaning their rooms. School related ones are AT LEAST Cs. It's butter if they have As and Bs, but Cs are great! I can see they are having issues with a subject and help them. Ds are red flags to me and in Audrey's case, she wasn't turning in homework. Be it homework that never made it home, or stuff she did and then didn't turn in.

She has normal stress relief of young people - church, music, her room, writing, and friends. She loves to volunteer and I hate holding that back but school is her responsibility and if she cannot keep that up, the other has to be put on hold.

[InfiniteNothing]

This may or may not be part of it, but as someone who has been in the position (or one quite similar) to the situation your daughter is in I'm going to say a few things.

People above me have made some excellent points about the level of stress and expectations that plague the lives of youth today. I don't think I need to reiterate those points.

I think the main factor here is the disenchantment. From what you're saying it sounds like your daughter is a bright, idealistic young person that had a lot of lofty goals. That's precisely the problem. Most people that are cynical are former idealists. That may be a factor here.

I know that when I reached that age I started to really analyze the world around me and it really didn't match what I was told it was or what it was supposed to be. I lost a lot of respect for authority figures that told me elaborate lies about reality.

You see what I mean? Idealists have a long way to fall to reality.

I wonder if some people live in bliss ignorance all their life, never stopping their small hamster wheel to think about, for a moment, what the world is really like, hitting the point where you finally see through all the warm and fuzzy that people have been throwing at you and seeing the world for what it is. I imagine it would be difficult for the day dreamer to understand what's going on in the cynic's head.

I have an odd question. Why should the cynic do her homework? Why should she listen to authority? Anyone can be a parent. Every authority figure has human flaws. Homework is the man trying to force your studying style. What do good grades get you? Pretty much just more stuff. Stuff that will degrade and stop working. Stuff that you'll forget about.

[chrissy]

I swear girls in their teenage years are possibly THE WORST thing to ever happen to mothers. Hold your ground Chrissy, stay firm, and remember-you're her teacher and her mother-not her friend. Some day she'll thank you for it. In the mean time, you'll both shed LOADS of tears until she realizes that you did everything best for her. If she messes up-she'll have to learn from that. I've been through it-and I'm happy to report that all the nonsense actually stops as fast as it starts when she gets a bit older.


Thanks obby :) I am so not her friend after this year :D We do have good times together. We are close. School is a touchy subject this year. Being the oldest child myself, I feel for my mom! We had a wonderful talk on Mother's Day weekend about mom's and sacrifices and not really getting what mom's do until we are knee deep in the poo that our kids do! :D

I honestly couldn't ask for a better daughter (or sons). They are great kids. If this is the worse issue she can give me, I will gladly take it.

[Airencracken]

I wonder if some people live in bliss ignorance all their life, never stopping their small hamster wheel to think about, for a moment, what the world is really like, hitting the point where you finally see through all the warm and fuzzy that people have been throwing at you and seeing the world for what it is. I imagine it would be difficult for the day dreamer to understand what's going on in the cynic's head. I have an odd question. Why should the cynic do her homework? Why should she listen to authority? Anyone can be a parent. Every authority figure has human flaws. Homework is the man trying to force your studying style.

Welcome to existentialism. :)

I think the reason to invest time is the suspension of cynicism and the temporary adoption of optimism. The way I see it this kind of cynicism is cyclic and it can be paralyzing at times. Sometimes it can be just background noise. The key is to keep the periods of intense cynicism from ruining your chances for the rest of the time.

But you make a good point about the materialistic nature of our society and how it affects people.



That's very interesting. I am going to ponder that.

It is an interesting phenomenon. It's also the case that the idealism doesn't go away completely and the cynic finds themselves still believing things and they continually get let down by reality.


She has normal stress relief of young people - church, music, her room, writing, and friends. She loves to volunteer and I hate holding that back but school is her responsibility and if she cannot keep that up, the other has to be put on hold.

These things may not work anymore for her if her world view is changing. I hate to sound (ironically or is it coincidentally) like a cynic, but you'd be surprised how much things can change in a short time and how many of them can be internalized.

[chrissy]

This may or may not be part of it, but as someone who has been in the position (or one quite similar) to the situation your daughter is in I'm going to say a few things.

People above me have made some excellent points about the level of stress and expectations that plague the lives of youth today. I don't think I need to reiterate those points.

I think the main factor here is the disenchantment. From what you're saying it sounds like your daughter is a bright, idealistic young person that had a lot of lofty goals. That's precisely the problem. Most people that are cynical are former idealists. That may be a factor here.

I know that when I reached that age I started to really analyze the world around me and it really didn't match what I was told it was or what it was supposed to be. I lost a lot of respect for authority figures that told me elaborate lies about reality.

You see what I mean? Idealists have a long way to fall to reality.

See, and this is where I should really understand her. When I was her age, my parents put me in a drug rehab program. Now, I have never touched a drug in my life! They didn't like the fact that I didn't "want" to sleep at night and that I slept until noon (I had just fallen asleep if I was lucky at 5). I was in there with people who were scary. My dad just got out himself and just knew that was my issue -insomnia never crossed their minds...

I learned a lot rather quickly in there. When you are sitting in group and listening to adults pour their hearts out about abuse and parties and other uglies in their life - on girl commited suicide while I was there and my roomie attempted. I learned quick what life was and wasn't.

She has a good head on her shoulders - I don't think she is disenchanted the world just yet :) She grew up watching Lizze McGuire and they never had homework, they were too busy causing mischif to worry about grades. And I think that is what she thought MS was about. She jumped into HS work loads in 6th grade and it hasn't let up. I think she is burnt out. I am hoping that she recovers next fall before she goes into HS.

[Airencracken]

She has a good head on her shoulders - I don't think she is disenchanted the world just yet :) She grew up watching Lizze McGuire and they never had homework, they were too busy causing mischif to worry about grades. And I think that is what she thought MS was about. She jumped into HS work loads in 6th grade and it hasn't let up. I think she is burnt out. I am hoping that she recovers next fall before she goes into HS.

Isn't that what disenchantment is? I mean I know it sounds a bit dramatic in this case, but it's a mismatch of expectations and reality or at least that's how I hear it being used colloquially. Being burnt out is another distinct possibility. But if that's the case why jump to "blame" it on her age and impending teenage-ness?

[chrissy]

Isn't that what disenchantment is? I mean I know it sounds a bit dramatic in this case, but it's a mismatch of expectations and reality or at least that's how I hear it being used colloquially. Being burnt out is another distinct possibility. But if that's the case why jump to "blame" it on her age and impending teenage-ness?


Because that's what parent's do. :)

No, I just used her age as a starting point for the converstation. I guess I could have just started out by saying that my daughter is about to fail the 7th grade and then state that she is turning 13 but I chose to announce her bday instead.

I still think she is disenchanted and I do also feel she is burnt out. She has learned a lot this year. You :) would be proud to know she doesn't like Bush at all. She had some facts - huge ones- wrong and I helped her find some truth about 9/11 (she was only 7 when it happened) and her memories of what happened that day. She has grown to have an opinion of the world around her and we talk about her POV vs mine and how it's okay to disagree and learn from each other. She watches the news and thinks it's a joke.


These things may not work anymore for her if her world view is changing. I hate to sound (ironically or is it coincidentally) like a cynic, but you'd be surprised how much things can change in a short time and how many of them can be internalized.

Yeah, I know. She is still growing into her own. I can see where she has a cynic side - that's the side that wants to paint her nails black and where her hair over her eyes. The side that doesn't want to talk to me about things. The side that plays twinkle twinkle little star on the guitar (it's the only one she knows). She doesn't know what to do with it just yet. I have taken to calling this side of her "pre-mo" She is going for the look of emo but she is too "preppy" to go all the way.

Then she goes all retro on me wanting to watch breakfast club adn pretty in pink and listen to, of all things, the Blues Brothers.

The next she is the absolute roll model playing with younger girls and teaching them songs and games with a smile on her face.

She is trying life. Watching her is fun. It's just keeping up with her that keeps me running in circles. :)

[thresher]

Boy, I hate to be the jerk here (I really do) but 13 (12 actually) was when I discovered the magic of dope. You know - Mary Jane. And everything you're describing sounds just like my behavior to a "t". Except, of course, I was never that gifted in school in the first place. My talents were music and language, not studies. I was in Latin and piano in addition to my coursework and they were falling behind.
I am not saying your daughter's situation is the same, I am only relating my own experiences.
There are two great things that can really help your daughter's situation (being 13): summertime and athletics. Soccer. Gymnastics. Volleyball. Anything a growing young girl can get tired and then do again the next day and get a little better at (that part is important). The more she can learn about herself and can experience during this time with a coach (NOT a parent - as painful as that may sound, she needs to connect with an adult that's parental, but not you or her dad)the more prepared she'll be for life's new lessons. As for me - I ended up 5 letters varsity and a college grad. 15 years married and yada yada yada. I believe in athletics and their ability to change and mold young minds. Athletics can give a young, misguided youth focus and strength and the ability to grow into their own. My .02 for what its worth. :)
Again. I am not saying your daughter's situation is the same, I am only relating my own experiences.

[chrissy]

That's also when her dad was growing it in his parent's back yard in Lemay.

It has crossed my mind - I am the daughter of an addict. But, here's the one thing I am bad about, she doesn't go outside and just "hangs out". If she is goes to a friend's house, it's that. She goes there. She doesn't roam the streets and I will not let her go to the park or the skate park. I know there are drugs there and she has never been allowed to go. Of course there are other places (school)she can get them, but she really isn't that type - and I am not blind to the fact that she may be the type and I don't see it. Like I said before, she is a good girl, she is just having a rough school year.

During the summer she is at her Dad's in CA. She volunteers at Ardenwood Historic Farm, works as an LIT for the city's summer camp programs and swims - this year she wants to get her Jr Lifesaving cert. She is active there.

Here, she has Scouts. We are an active troop when it comes to volunteering and going places. I have to get those pictures of us canoeing last weekend! That was a blast! She love to hike and rock climb and we try to get out as often as our schedules let us. She also loves to walk with me and Misty to help me get ready for my 60 mile walk. And I totally agree in having outside adults to help guide her. She has a lot of special people she looks up to outside of family.

[sizemic1]

I was a lazy ass in Jr High and hated doing homework. I ended up having to get my teachers to write down my required HW assignments on some sheet that my parents had to sign off on and verify that I've completed my assignments on a weekly? basis.

[The Happy Squirrel]

i dont recall does she have any older sibbligs?

i remember i was always a straight A student
until HS.

my mom was the biggest nag i the world!!!!!!

why cant you be more like your brother?
why cant you get some normal friends?

constantly <she still naggs everytime we talk>



everything she would nag about would casue a different problem and therefor something new to nag about

my grades started slipping, never was the trouble maker though <well never got caught>

one thing you muyst always absoutly do is never compare one child to the other always let kids form thier own identity
iyou want to guide them and mold them a bit and keep them straight but the whole why cant you be more like your borher/sister bit will casue a lot of resentment

also try this
if she likes to go to the mall and shop

try a merit based allowance increase
for every A on the report card the allowance goes up $2 every B it goes up $1 C's are flat D's lose a dollar and F lose $2

this one you mut be careful with because it can backfire if its not the proper motivation


all in all
its just a matter of inding out what drives someone and then leaning on that

kiss and hug and tell your kids you love them every single day most importantly