17 children is a bit much ?

[renovation]

http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/Seventeen_Children.sff_ARBH103_20070802173545.jpg
Michelle Duggar, left, is surrounded by her children and husband Jim Bob, top left, while she holds her newborn daughter, Jennifer Danielle, Thursday, Aug. 2, 2007 in Rogers, Ark. Jennifer Danielle was born at 10:01 a.m., weighed 8 lbs 8 oz, was 21 inches long, and is the 17th child born to Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar.

what you think ? i personal feel thats a bit much . and this woman must stay in bed with her pantys off .to have this many children .
im sure she loves all of them but still .

Less than 30 minutes after giving birth, the Duggars already were talking of having more.

"We'd love to have more," Michelle said,

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070803/D8QPK4SO0.html

[Prngr44]

17 kids?? Good lord.

[Pemolis]

Please tell me they aren't on welfare.. I don't want to pay for that.

That has to be some relgious deal to make a pair of people have THAT many kids.

How in the world is intimacy even viable anymore, considering that woman's condition.

[gear02]

I hate the fact that all of their names start with J...that's a little tacky...

Also I wonder what he does for a living. Supporting 17 kids must cost a lot of money.

[Pemolis]

oh wait, he's a former representative.. and they have a TV show... yea there rolling in cash.

[Layla]

They are regularly on TLC channel and I've watched a few of their specials. The family actually functions amzingly well, and a few of those children were born in pairs :) Personally, I couldn't do it, but she homeschools here kids. They have zero debt. (Although I'm sure that's MUCH easier now that they are "famous"). All of the older children help out with the younger ones. It's truly amazing to watch. Years ago, over ten kids was not uncommon, my granfather had 12 siblings...I think it's just the state of the world that we live in that makes us automatically find it odd.

[Prngr44]

I think it's just the state of the world that we live in that makes us automatically find it odd.

I'd agree. "Back in the day" there way more farming communities and large families were more the norm, rather than the exception.

My parents both came from fairly large families, 8 and 7 siblings each.

[DarkFury]

They are regularly on TLC channel and I've watched a few of their specials. The family actually functions amzingly well, and a few of those children were born in pairs :) Personally, I couldn't do it, but she homeschools here kids. They have zero debt. (Although I'm sure that's MUCH easier now that they are "famous"). All of the older children help out with the younger ones. It's truly amazing to watch. Years ago, over ten kids was not uncommon, my granfather had 12 siblings...I think it's just the state of the world that we live in that makes us automatically find it odd.
Well.. considering that the majority of us don't live on farms where you'd really need a big family to help with the workload (plus the ever increasing costs of current lifestyle choices, health and education) sorta contribute to not having such large families anymore.

The world is a crowded place already... and if everyone had 15+ kids... HOOO BOY!!! "We wouldn't have anywhere to ride our horsies...."

( :heh: I'm sure only a few people will know where that preveious quote/comment came from. Bonus points to anyone who knows. :D )

[AlwayzMarel]

Hmm, besides the parents, I noticed only two of the kids seem to be happy. lol

[DarkFury]

Hmm, besides the parents, I noticed only two of the kids seem to be happy. lol
:heh:

Yeah... now that I look at the pic again, some of those kids do look like:

"Dayuuum... not another one. SHEESH! I ain't NEVER gonna have my own room at the house"

"Dayuuumit Mom and Dad... y'all need separate hobbies or something... it's getting crowded up in here."


:heh:

[AlwayzMarel]

lmao, soo true. poor kids. Parents barely have time to have one one time with one or two kids imagine 17!

[oblongmelon]

I've seen the shows about the Duggars.. and personally, I think it's GREAT that they have so many kids!..there is NOTHING like having a huge family! They both sold real estate for a while, and he ran for Congress or something, plus yes, they have no debt, and had no debt PRIOR to the TV shows being made about them. They buy used, and save the difference. They also own alot of land around the new house they built themselves. (did have some help at the very end of the house because Michelle was due to have the 16th baby and they had to be out of their rental house) ..what I don't like about them is..she puts the older kids in charge of a younger one, and she takes the baby..they also believe in blanket training the kids which is a pretty harsh training routine..(look it up it's too long to go into detail here)...and also, they had their entire house furnished by the TV station when they finished it-as a "gift"....the episode where they go to the Aldi store is hysterical! They spend like 1000 dollars at the store!

[Napoleon54]

I know some brothers who grew up in a family of 12, they're friends of a friend of mine. They're über competative and selfish, supposedly behaviors they learned growing up because that's what it took to get any attention from their parents. I can't stand hanging out with them 'cause they're pricks. I don't necessarily think that's how all large families are, but it is one of the potential negatives that can develop in such an atmosphere.

[uncledaddy]

17......OMG her body must be "tore up from the floor up". Hell I have trouble with the three girls I'm raising now. Not financially but physically! :sweat: :dead:

[DarkFury]

"Barefoot and Pregnant" is not a statement in that household... it's a "motto". :eek:

[renovation]

they must have just one fridge dedicated for milk .
and i hate to see the size of there laundry soap bill every month .
i just cant image what it cost for the family to go see mickey mouse just for a single day .im sure they get a group rate discount .
also try to order pizza . dont dare ask what would you like on yours :)

[oblongmelon]

they must have just one fridge dedicated for milk .
and i hate to see the size of there laundry soap bill every month .
i just cant image what it cost for the family to go see mickey mouse just for a single day .im sure they get a group rate discount .
also try to order pizza . dont dare ask what would you like on yours :)
The Discovery channel paid for them to go on vacation..which included Disney..so it was no cost to them. They do however own a great bigggggggg mobile home that they pack all the kids in for vacation. Along with a Van full of Clothes and an attached trailer that the oldest son drives when they travel. You'd be surprised how organized they really are. They go out to dinner 1 night a month-on kid's night when kids eat free-smart thinking right??? And as far as a fridge for their milk..their pantry actually looks like grocery store shelves. YOU SHOULD REALLY WATCH THE SHOW about them. It's amazing!

[WhiskeyPapa]

Now I can't imagine 17 kids (we only have 11 and two are grown and moved out.) But it's not as difficult/horrible/expensive/abusive as most of you seem to think it is. No, we don't make the older kids raise the younger kids, however they do babysit occassionally, which they get paid for. We also homeschool the kids, so they are with mom 24/7. People always complain that kids from a large family don't get enough attention, but it's 100% A-OK for "normal" parents to have one or two kids, and dump them in daycare almost from day one?

The Duggars are wonderful parents and I'm glad they're the "face" of large families, most of whom prefer to stay under the radar.

[DarkFury]

Heh...

Sounds like a case of "heavy duty" box springs on the bed in the master bedroom to me. :heh:

[mechmike0034]

Lets start a collection. We can buy Mr. and Mrs. Duggars a PC and internet access so they've got something else to do...

[Nija]

http://pics.livejournal.com/jillbertini/pic/00007ew1/s640x480

[InfiniteNothing]

Seems immoral. If we all had that many kids the planet would soon die. Water water everywhere...

[LPMiller]

what does overpopulation have to do with the rhyme of the ancient mariner?

[Jenny]

The Discovery channel paid for them to go on vacation..which included Disney..so it was no cost to them. They do however own a great bigggggggg mobile home that they pack all the kids in for vacation. Along with a Van full of Clothes and an attached trailer that the oldest son drives when they travel. You'd be surprised how organized they really are. They go out to dinner 1 night a month-on kid's night when kids eat free-smart thinking right??? And as far as a fridge for their milk..their pantry actually looks like grocery store shelves. YOU SHOULD REALLY WATCH THE SHOW about them. It's amazing!

I saw the shows where they were building the new house. They really are an amazing family. Regardless of your beliefs about overpopulation or whatever, they seem to be a well oiled machine. And they look so YOUNG! That's what got me at the time. I really am simply amazed at how well organized they are (like obby said about their pantry, etc). Of course, they would HAVE to be. lol


Now I can't imagine 17 kids (we only have 11 and two are grown and moved out.) But it's not as difficult/horrible/expensive/abusive as most of you seem to think it is. No, we don't make the older kids raise the younger kids, however they do babysit occassionally, which they get paid for. We also homeschool the kids, so they are with mom 24/7. People always complain that kids from a large family don't get enough attention, but it's 100% A-OK for "normal" parents to have one or two kids, and dump them in daycare almost from day one?

The Duggars are wonderful parents and I'm glad they're the "face" of large families, most of whom prefer to stay under the radar.

I agree WP, about the attention, etc. Plus, even in families of 2 or 3 kids, the oldest usually has to watch the youngest at least sometimes! heh

[Jenny]

Seems immoral. If we all had that many kids the planet would soon die. Water water everywhere...

But I think that's the thing. There are A LOT of people who have no kids and A LOT that only have 1. There AREN'T that many that have as many as WP's family and the Duggars. There used to be, yes. But not anymore. So it isn't quite that big a deal anymore for overpopulation, because it is far from balancing out.

[InfiniteNothing]

You have to think bigger. There are many cases where one person doing the wrong thing doesn't hurt anyone. Taking a sea shell from the beach; dropping something down the storm drain.

That doesn't make it okay. The only reason the sea shell taker gets to enjoy the seashell is by the responsible actions of all the other people.


what does overpopulation have to do with the rhyme of the ancient mariner?
Limited natural resources. :)

Globally, the replacement rate is 2.3:1 Until that dips below 2, those super breeders aren't balancing out anything. They are only being selfish.

[DarkFury]

http://pics.livejournal.com/jillbertini/pic/00007ew1/s640x480

Tears... they roll from my eyes... :heh:

[Jeffbx]

:stupid:

Good one!

:heh:

[oblongmelon]

But I think that's the thing. There are A LOT of people who have no kids and A LOT that only have 1. There AREN'T that many that have as many as WP's family and the Duggars. There used to be, yes. But not anymore. So it isn't quite that big a deal anymore for overpopulation, because it is far from balancing out.

You know what the wierd thing is? Back in the day, (and I mean my grandmothers' day not mine) it wasn't unusual to have 8,9, 10, kids,or even more.And no one blinked an eye..then someone said.."hey! it's wrong to have so many children-no one can afford them!" and then the family went to that 2.3 child phase..when the economy crashed and prices soared, big families got smaller, and people got selfish. Money is behind the downfall of big families. Personally, I would LOVE to have about 13 kids myself. There is nothing more fabulous than endless chatter, fighting, etc between kids...there is just something about it that makes it all worth it. I came from a big family and believe me we've had our problems...but I wouldn't trade my siblings for anything (with the exception of 1 sister/troublemaker/town whore. I think the Duggars are setting an example of being able to support a big family without going on the system. They ARE self supporting, have deep rooted principles religiously (nothing wrong with that), and love each and every one of their kids equally. I give them a big thumbs up. As far as them over-populating? There is no law as to how many children you are allowed to love and raise. Personally, I think it's their own business, and if they are that dedicated to each other after all those kids, that they are still having sex..I give them credit!

[Markel]

I think the Duggars are setting an example of being able to support a big family without going on the system. They ARE self supporting, have deep rooted principles religiously (nothing wrong with that), and love each and every one of their kids equally. I give them a big thumbs up.
:stupid: I would much rather see a big family with properly raised kids than a dozen families with (on average) 1.9 brats each.

Of course, I am not saying that every family with 2 kids results in brats.

[Airencracken]

I think more than 3 is a bit much.

[The Happy Squirrel]

yeah i would say 17 kids is ....."streching it"

[WhiskeyPapa]

Seems immoral. If we all had that many kids the planet would soon die. Water water everywhere...

And if everyone had as many kids as you do, then what would happen to the human race?

Kind of a dumb argument.

The problem is pretty much everyone here can't think outside of their own little personal box. You assume that this family of 17 lives the same exact selfish/consumptive/wasteful life you do. You ignorantly imagine 17 carbon copies of yourself. I don't know what kind of income the Duggars have now with the Discovery Channel paycheck, but I do know that back when they had only 14-15 kids and were never heard of outside of the occasional story in a homeschool magazine, they were debt free, lived in a beautiful house and were financially stable on one income (I believe the dad was/is a real estate agent.)

So if everyone lived as efficiently as the Duggars, this country and the earth would be much better off.

[oblongmelon]

And if everyone had as many kids as you do, then what would happen to the human race?

Kind of a dumb argument.

The problem is pretty much everyone here can't think outside of their own little personal box. You assume that this family of 17 lives the same exact selfish/consumptive/wasteful life you do. You ignorantly imagine 17 carbon copies of yourself. I don't know what kind of income the Duggars have now with the Discovery Channel paycheck, but I do know that back when they had only 14-15 kids and were never heard of outside of the occasional story in a homeschool magazine, they were debt free, lived in a beautiful house and were financially stable on one income (I believe the dad was/is a real estate agent.)

So if everyone lived as efficiently as the Duggars, this country and the earth would be much better off.

Bravo!!

[Airencracken]

And if everyone had as many kids as you do, then what would happen to the human race?

Kind of a dumb argument.

The problem is pretty much everyone here can't think outside of their own little personal box. You assume that this family of 17 lives the same exact selfish/consumptive/wasteful life you do. You ignorantly imagine 17 carbon copies of yourself. I don't know what kind of income the Duggars have now with the Discovery Channel paycheck, but I do know that back when they had only 14-15 kids and were never heard of outside of the occasional story in a homeschool magazine, they were debt free, lived in a beautiful house and were financially stable on one income (I believe the dad was/is a real estate agent.)

So if everyone lived as efficiently as the Duggars, this country and the earth would be much better off.

And you ignorantly imagine that Infinite lives a selfish/consumptive/wasteful life.

And no if everyone had 17 kids the earth would not be much better off. It's an averages thing.

Pretty funny that you accuse people of not thinking out of their personal box. Somehow I'm thinking the guy with eleven kids will be biased on the side of having a ton of kids. :rolleyes:

[InfiniteNothing]

And if everyone had as many kids as you do, then what would happen to the human race?

Kind of a dumb argument.

The problem is pretty much everyone here can't think outside of their own little personal box. You assume that this family of 17 lives the same exact selfish/consumptive/wasteful life you do. You ignorantly imagine 17 carbon copies of yourself. I don't know what kind of income the Duggars have now with the Discovery Channel paycheck, but I do know that back when they had only 14-15 kids and were never heard of outside of the occasional story in a homeschool magazine, they were debt free, lived in a beautiful house and were financially stable on one income (I believe the dad was/is a real estate agent.)

So if everyone lived as efficiently as the Duggars, this country and the earth would be much better off.

Your entire argument boils down to a personal attack. (My dumb argument, what would happen if people lived like me, howIassume they live the same as my wasteful life, etc)

I am advocating people have between 0-3 kids and that they live efficiently. Living inefficiently or having more kids is selfish. If everyone lived that way the population would sustain pretty well while keeping the planet in good shape. I believe that the exponential growth caused by having more than 3 will cripple the planet even if we all live as efficiently as possible because we'd run out of natural resources.

[Napoleon54]

Very few families have more than 3-4 kids nowadays so I don't think large families are a significant "burden" or "problem". And there are plenty of reasons to NOT have a large family aside from laziness or selfishness or inefficient lifestyle. To each his/her own. Chill!

[Maarchk]

The worlds population is increasing not decreasing... So yes, a ton of kids is a contributing factor to limited resources. even if they are nice and efficient, that doesn't mean they don't eat, breathe air, and drink water like all other life forms. Its like saying, well my neighbor has 1 car for two people, i can have 10. It doesn't really work like that. Large families were frequent for farmers or places where there was a high death rate or they needed the labor. but since people are going to live to be 80+ years, having 17 kids is going to contribute to the lack of resources. I'm not trying to judge these people specifically or any of your families. I'm sure you are all wonderful nice people. My grandma was one of 9 kids and they were all wonderful smart people that left the farm and became rocket scientist and other things.
That all being said, I personally fear the human world running itself out of resources, and I support decreasing the earth's population by 1-3 billion people. yes, I'm tom cruise, you found me out. I would like to have two kids as i dont think its much fun to be the only child. If a couple wants 1 kid or 0, i think thats a good idea for the world. If people want lots of kids, I wouldn't look at them and say, "bad person", but i think in the long run, our expanding population will contribute to the cause of humanity's self destruction. If it hasn't already.
On a side note that i'm sure will tick people off, there was a movie "idiotacracy" i think? I didn't see it but it was described to me about freezing soldiers for the future and how the population developed. Basically it said that highly educated people waited until they had secure careers and had maybe 1 kid. In the mean time people who did not go past high school would instead have many children and so you would end up with 10 uneducated children to 1 educated child. If you keep repeating this process, they surmised that in a few hundred years you would be surrounded by tons of very uneducated people. Thats a scary thought, and probably completely off base in modern society for our country, but i do believe in 3rd world countries and other places of low education levels that this is possible and could be harmful to the intelligence of future generations.

[Napoleon54]

On a side note that i'm sure will tick people off, there was a movie "idiotacracy" i think? I didn't see it but it was described to me about freezing soldiers for the future and how the population developed. Basically it said that highly educated people waited until they had secure careers and had maybe 1 kid. In the mean time people who did not go past high school would instead have many children and so you would end up with 10 uneducated children to 1 educated child. If you keep repeating this process, they surmised that in a few hundred years you would be surrounded by tons of very uneducated people. Thats a scary thought, and probably completely off base in modern society for our country, but i do believe in 3rd world countries and other places of low education levels that this is possible and could be harmful to the intelligence of future generations.

I think it's happening here in the US too. Intelligent and responsible people generally know better than to have more kids than they can support. Dumber and less responsible folks are more likely to have more kids and raise them on the taxpayer's dime via welfare. They're both self promoting trends because when kids are raised in a particular environment they learn that that's acceptible and often go on to do the same. The ratio of responsible people to stupid people continues to drop with every generation. We're getting fewer and fewer responsible people versus more and more irresponsible ones.

Note, I don't necessarily equate "educated" with being intelligent or responsible. A college education is becoming the standard in our society. All that means is that we have increasing numbers of dumb irresponsible people getting degrees. I know a lot of stupid people who've graduated college. I've even encountered a few very stupid people who have PhDs. :2far:

[Thesifer]

I just like that his name is "Jim Bob"

http://www.duggarfamily.com/

[Jeffbx]

I know a lot of stupid people who've graduated college. I've even encountered a few very stupid people who have PhDs. :2far:

:stupid:

IMHO, all you need to get a PhD is a lot of time & a lot of money. That's IT. You don't need to be a super genius, you just need the time to complete all of the requirements & the money to pay for the credits.

Some family members of mine are in academia, and from what I've seen I think that #1 on The List Of People Disconnected With The Real World are people with advanced degrees who've never left college. They're either professional students, or have managed their way into teaching at the university level, but have never joined the 'outside' workforce.

You CAN be a moron & a doctor at the same time - I've seen it!