1700 Gallons of Water for One Gallon of Ethanol

[johnnymk]

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=15147

Heavily subsidized and absurdly inefficient, corn-based ethanol has already driven up food prices. But the Senate's plan to increase production to 36 billion gallons by 2022, will place even greater pressure on farm-belt aquifers, says the Wall Street Journal.

Consider: Ethanol plants consume roughly four gallons of water to produce each gallon of fuel, but that's only a fraction of ethanol's total water habit.

Cornell University ecology professor David Pimentel says that when you count the water needed to grow the corn, one gallon of ethanol requires a staggering 1,700 gallons of H2O.
Some corn-producing regions are already scrapping over dwindling supply:

Kansas is threatening to sue neighboring Nebraska for consuming more than its share of the Republican River. There is local opposition to a proposed ethanol plant in Erskine, Minnesota, with anti-refinery yard signs sprouting up and residents concerned about well water. Backers of a proposed plant in Jamestown, North Dakota, recently withdrew their application when it became clear that the plant's million-gallon-a-day appetite would drain too much from a local aquifer.

Further, ethanol's big environmental footprint is not limited to water, because biofuels like ethanol are highly inefficient, says the Journal: Growing corn to produce ethanol means converting land from food production to fuel production.

Writing in Science magazine, Renton Righelato and Dominick Spracklen estimate that in order to replace just 10 percent of gasoline and diesel consumption, the United States would need to convert a full 43 percent of its cropland to ethanol production.

The alternative approach -- clearing wilderness -- would mean more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere than simply sticking with gasoline, because the CO2-munching trees cut down to make way for ethanol absorb more emissions than ethanol saves.

Source: Editorial, Ethanol's Water Shortage," Wall Street Journal, October 17, 2007.

[Houdini]

And, long term, or even short term, I don't think ethanol does much for emissions. It doesn't carry that much energy to begin with, and burning it, like anything, yields CO2, which is what people are always trying to cut. But unless you go electric (powered by nuclear or geothermal or hydroelectric or wind, with the first being the only one that works well everywhere,) you're going to get lots of CO2.

[Napoleon54]

More ethanol, save the planet! :rolleyes:

[johnnymk]

The technologically illiterates who reside in Congress are not just making stupid laws. They are actually affecting the economic future of our country. Without any knowledge of scientific data, they are passing laws requiring ridiculous ethanol production goals , unrealistic automobile and truck MPG standards.

They have enacted changes to a patent system which they don't fully understand. They are working on laws regarding net neutrality which is beyond their ability to comprehend.

These uninformed legislators are as dangerous as a child handling live ammo, and the results of their reckless decisions are going to affect the lives of workers and employers for years to come.

And by the time they are out of office, no one will look back and say that this or that law was responsible for the demise of an entire industry or other fallout which they did not foresee at the time they were passed. They will collect their pensions or work for a corporation which they helped when they were in office.

Generally, laws are not repealed and in many instances not even modified.

I wonder if these legislators will admit that they jumped on a broken bandwagon and will roll back the standards or just merrily stroll into never never land thinking that everything will work out in the end?

[Houdini]

The technologically illiterates who reside in Congress are not just making stupid laws. They are actually affecting the economic future of our country. Without any knowledge of scientific data, they are passing laws requiring ridiculous ethanol production goals , unrealistic automobile and truck MPG standards.

They have enacted changes to a patent system which they don't fully understand. They are working on laws regarding net neutrality which is beyond their ability to comprehend.

These uninformed legislators are as dangerous as a child handling live ammo, and the results of their reckless decisions are going to affect the lives of workers and employers for years to come.

And by the time they are out of office, no one will look back and say that this or that law was responsible for the demise of an entire industry or other fallout which they did not foresee at the time they were passed. They will collect their pensions or work for a corporation which they helped when they were in office.

Generally, laws are not repealed and in many instances not even modified.

I wonder if these legislators will admit that they jumped on a broken bandwagon and will roll back the standards or just merrily stroll into never never land thinking that everything will work out in the end?

Heh...what else is new? This applies to many, many issues, from guns to fuels, cars, and many, many other things. Kinda like that congresswoman who wanted to ban guns with barrel shrouds, but couldn't answer during an interview on MSNBC what a barrel shroud actually is..."I think it's the thing that goes over your shoulder?" Doesn't matter if you don't even know what you're banning...ban it anyway!

Yeah...ethanol sounds good because it's not gasoline. So, mandate it!

[Prngr44]

If they're going to mandate anything, allocate some $$ to research to make the process better and not so lopsided.

[LPMiller]

The technologically illiterates who reside in Congress are not just making stupid laws. They are actually affecting the economic future of our country. Without any knowledge of scientific data, they are passing laws requiring ridiculous ethanol production goals , unrealistic automobile and truck MPG standards.

They have enacted changes to a patent system which they don't fully understand. They are working on laws regarding net neutrality which is beyond their ability to comprehend.

These uninformed legislators are as dangerous as a child handling live ammo, and the results of their reckless decisions are going to affect the lives of workers and employers for years to come.

And by the time they are out of office, no one will look back and say that this or that law was responsible for the demise of an entire industry or other fallout which they did not foresee at the time they were passed. They will collect their pensions or work for a corporation which they helped when they were in office.

Generally, laws are not repealed and in many instances not even modified.

I wonder if these legislators will admit that they jumped on a broken bandwagon and will roll back the standards or just merrily stroll into never never land thinking that everything will work out in the end?


While I agree with you on ethanol, or say, congress in general in regards to not understanding technology, I can't agree on the MPG for cars and trucks. That standard has been out and out stagnant for too long, and it is in fact possible to raise it. Plus I don't really see any ridiculous requirements involved there.

But ethanol is seriously proving to be a big joke.

[Napoleon54]

The technologically illiterates who reside in Congress are not just making stupid laws. They are actually affecting the economic future of our country. Without any knowledge of scientific data, they are passing laws requiring ridiculous ethanol production goals , unrealistic automobile and truck MPG standards.

They have enacted changes to a patent system which they don't fully understand. They are working on laws regarding net neutrality which is beyond their ability to comprehend.

These uninformed legislators are as dangerous as a child handling live ammo, and the results of their reckless decisions are going to affect the lives of workers and employers for years to come.

And by the time they are out of office, no one will look back and say that this or that law was responsible for the demise of an entire industry or other fallout which they did not foresee at the time they were passed. They will collect their pensions or work for a corporation which they helped when they were in office.

Generally, laws are not repealed and in many instances not even modified.

I wonder if these legislators will admit that they jumped on a broken bandwagon and will roll back the standards or just merrily stroll into never never land thinking that everything will work out in the end?

:stupid::stupid::stupid: Well-said.

Now what are we going to do about it? Politicians work for US. They're accountable to US. If we don't like it we should vote them out.

*crickets chirping*

The fact of the matter is that ignorant and irresponsible politicians are reflective of an ignorant and irresponsible society. Nothing's going to change until the average citizen starts looking at the issues more carefully and does a more responsible job of picking their candidates. Change has to come from the ground up. America is a sum of its composite parts, with the fundamental unit being the American citizen. If there's a problem with the whole it's because there's a problem with the parts it is made from. We wouldn't be investing heavily in Ethanol like this if it wasn't what the people wanted, 'cause the politician who does what the people want (or at least can make them THINK they're doing what they want) is the one who is going to get elected, and getting elected means you have power, and all politicians love power. At present, it all has very little to do with what's best for the common good.

[johnnymk]

While I agree with you on ethanol, or say, congress in general in regards to not understanding technology, I can't agree on the MPG for cars and trucks. That standard has been out and out stagnant for too long, and it is in fact possible to raise it. Plus I don't really see any ridiculous requirements involved there.

But ethanol is seriously proving to be a big joke.

OK, if the car industry can sell cars that weigh approximately 3000 pounds or less and be diesel powered, it may be possible to get a 35 MPG AVERAGE. Try selling that idea to the American consumer.

And don't forget that the EPA has made the MPG calculations more realistic in the past couple of years. Also add the 3% to 10% penalty from adding ethanol, which means the formula would approximate 36-38 MPG, and the whole concept gets even more ridiculous.

And by adding in SUVs and pickups to the average, there is no way it is remotely possible. Not in anyone's wildest dream!!

I am sure that there are people out there and especially polticians who live in a fantasy world that believe a 35 MPG average is possible. Anyone with a knowledge of what it takes to obtain this figure will tell them they are crazy.

[Houdini]

If they're going to mandate anything, allocate some $$ to research to make the process better and not so lopsided.

Well, making ethanol is an old, old, old process. There are only so many ways chemically to do it. It's likely in the corporations' best financial interests to do it as efficiently as possible, or they wouldn't even be trying to produce it. I doubt any extra money would really do anything. Also, it's inherently inefficient as a fuel source, as it simply doesn't release much energy when burned compared to petroleum-based fuels. :shrug: