Army vs. Marines

[nate el bueno]

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I've been giving the armed forces consideration, and don't know which route to go. By "vs.", I mean, what are your thoughts on the branches, not who would win :)

[uncledaddy]

Air Force!

Actually my brother was a Marine. He loved it but says extremely physical. I grew up an Air Force brat and it was the best life ever. I tried to join but was stupid and now it's too late. :sad:

[chrissy]

Air Force!

If you want to go in for tech or education, Navy or Air force.


Donnie,(19 years in the AF)asks what are you wanting to do?

[guiseppewv]

I think it all depends upon what you want to do and what your personality. Fill us in, somewhat, on those two areas.

The Marines are going to do a lot more PT than most of the Army, so if you like that then score one for the Marines.

[zenbooty]

Go navy. It's probably the best overall experience in my opinion. Life isn't too grueling, but there's plenty of work, and if you work hard and use your brains you'll advance and do well. The marines are hardcore freaks. The army is for cannon fodder, unless you're an officer. I'm sure there's a bell curve and all, but most of the army folk I've met and known have been closer to the knuckle dragging species than your average person. And in the Air Force you gotta be smart, but you also have to kiss ass. There's more politics, and less cameraderie in the Air Force compared to the other branches.

[guiseppewv]

I disagree about the description of the Army. There are tons of highly educated people in the enlisted ranks.

[Thesifer]

I'm Navy, but I would say Navy or Air Force.

[bachviet]

Air Force so you could slack all you want.

[uncledaddy]

Air Force so you could slack all you want.

No offense to any branch, but I thought this was more prevalent in the Navy.

[guiseppewv]

I think if you are lazy enough and smart enough you can do that in any branch. :shrug:

[ShawnLee]

I think if you are lazy enough and smart enough you can do that in any branch. :shrug:
:stupid:

I loved the Army. I was enamored of the Marines at first, but the more I looked into it, the Army was more practical for me.

What are you looking for, to do, to get out of it? All of those things are important.

Ultimately, just remember that you're signing your life over to the US government for the defense of the country and the projection of its policy goals - so long as you have that in mind, you'll get a lot of the same wherever you go.

[nate el bueno]

hahaha!

I read over a lot of that twice because it was really funny.
My reasons for joining: I'm considering something in law enforcement down the line, and this would help out. 2: I do a lot better in structure. 3: I think I ought to help this country keep what it was founded for. 4: I'm not gonna lie...I would like some of the benefits. However, it's not my biggest reason.

I actually am not a big fan of being on a boat. The whole notion just- well, it isn't me. As for the air force, I am not a big fan of being shot out of the sky, and the rest of it wouldn't appeal to me. The way I see it is if I am going to join the military, I would do it expecting to have to stick my neck out a little.

I don't mind the extra physical stuff in the marines that people talk about. I went to a boarding school that already made us do all of that, and run track on top of that. I did give some thought to being a paratrooper, because hey, who doesn't want to get payed to jump out of a plane? I know, but still...

I had some guy come through the registers at Fry's today and I talked to him for a good 10 minutes, much to the dismay of the supervisors because there was a huge line. He went the navy route and said it was the best thing he ever did. The more we talked, the more thought I gave it. I tend to be an impulsive person, so this is really something I want to think about, as it would be the next 6 years of my life or so. Talking to him though, made me realize that this is something I'm actually giving a good deal of though to and is not just a "phase".

[ShawnLee]

Paratrooper, law enforcement, and all that?
MP in an airborne unit?

Talk to different recruiters, see what they can promise you in writing. Pretty much all of the branches have law enforcement functions in service. The Coast Guard has by definition a law enforcement function, but then, you don't like boats.

[cruelpupet]

Im going to give a different answer.

You would be the biggest F***ing idiot to join anything at this point in time.

The benefits are no where near what they used to be.

You are in no way fighting for what this country was supposed to stand for.

Just look at how they have decided to change the rules around on length of tours and leave.

Figure out the odds of you coming home dead, missing a limb, or F'ed in the head and see if its worth it.

Talk to anyone from the Vietnam war, and see what their opinion is.

[ArkiStan]

Air Force!

Now that I've got that out of the way, don't do it!

[Napoleon54]

I agree 100% with cruelpupet. I have outright contempt for anyone who joins up at this point in history. You'll be risking your life as a goverment pawn to further the agenda of American imperialism. There's absolutely nothing noble about that.

[guiseppewv]

If you are hoping to go into law enforcement later then don't rule out the AF. You can be "law enforcement" for the AF the same as you can any other force and you could also get shot down while in an aircraft, the same as in all the rest of the services. Marines are pilots and they get ferried into combat on choppers sometimes. The Navy has lots of pilots and they ferry sailors into combat on choppers too. The army has pilots and they also ferry troops into combat on choppers. Just saying that the AF is a lot more than flying in a plane.


I agree 100% with cruelpupet. I have outright contempt for anyone who joins up at this point in history. You'll be risking your life as a goverment pawn to further the agenda of American imperialism. There's absolutely nothing noble about that.

You and CP both need to get over it. Contempt for anyone who joins? Please. People are going to do their own thing. I would not push someone to go into the military (or anything else for that matter) but if they want to go then I would support their decision.

So, if someone is poor and needs to escape a bad neighborhood/bad friends/bad family/whatever and they join one of the branches of the military then you are going to have contempt for them? That is ridiculous. :disa:

CP - actually a lot of the benefits of being in the military are increasing. It is hard to recruit and retain when you are fighting wars.

[Thesifer]

Benefits (Minus deployments) Are higher then they ever have been. Not lower.

the only thing different now is that the military might actually have to go fight, something that hasn't had to be done for a while until now again..

[cruelpupet]

You and CP both need to get over it. Contempt for anyone who joins? Please. People are going to do their own thing. I would not push someone to go into the military (or anything else for that matter) but if they want to go then I would support their decision.


I never said "contempt" I just said it would be a pretty f'ing stupid idea, and I was basing that on odds of coming back hurt, dead, or mentally f'ed up.

But I might go as far as Nap with contempt. At this point more reports are coming out about fabricated evidence. We know we did not go into war for the right reasons, we see the psychology games of how they would link the idea of Iraq with Al Queda.

If someone joined the army after 9/11 I could see why they would do it. But now? You would have to realize that you are just a pawn in a few rich mens game. Its not about defending our country at this point, and hasn't been for a while.

Admittedly I only personally know 2 people currently active in the Army. One is an MP and was shipped out again a month or so ago, the other just got back from his 2nd or 3rd tour and is a rank or 3 above what you enter in as. Both dont want to go back, both have families that dont want them to go, and at least 1 couple had almost ended the relationship over it.

[cruelpupet]

As for benefits, I heard that the GI Bill wasnt as good as it was. But I dont know much about it, can anyone here give more detials about the benefits?

[chrissy]

http://www.military.com/news/article/schools-prepare-for-more-students-studying-under-gi-bill.html

a bit better

http://education.military.com/money-for-school/gi-bill/new-gi-bill-overview

[ArkiStan]

With the risk of turning this thread political, I'd like to ask all those that are currently in active service or have served in the past a purely hypothetical question. I know the decision to enlist is anything but cut and dry and involves many complex factors at the time, but if you can overlook the illogicality and irrationality of the premise, I'd love to hear your answer:

If the state of affairs and benefit package at the time you enlisted were exactly as they are right now AND you knew there was a 100% chance of being deployed into any one of the middle eastern regions where troops have been deployed in the last 7-8 years, would you still have signed?

[Nija]

My Biased Opinion:
Air Force - The most intellectual of the 4 main branches. You probably won't be flying anything, but you may be sitting in front of a computer using your brain the most. You generally won't find stupid people in this branch.

Navy - Boats. Also some very intelligent people, who like water. You will hear a lot of gay jokes directed at you. The travel is the upside. I'd say it build the most positive character of any of the individual branches.(My Father-in-Law is a former Navyman)

Army - Grunts. The intelligence is much thinner here. Must like dirt. Some of the most practical applicability to the real world, aside from the deskjockeys in the Air Force :P(This is where I was enlisted)

Marines - Fodder. Don't think. Just do. You will have to be mentally re-programmed once you come back to the real world (if you ever do). I'd only go here if you can go to Officer Candidate School.

[chrissy]

My Biased Opinion:
Air Force - The most intellectual of the 4 main branches. You probably won't be flying anything, but you may be sitting in front of a computer using your brain the most. You generally won't find stupid people in this branch.



Yes, you do find stupid people in the AF. They are usually Chiefs or shirts. Or they are in the 3rd Herd.

[guiseppewv]

You also find stupid people (square peg in a round hole type) in the Navy plus you find people in the Marines and Army who are extremely intelligent.


I never said "contempt" I just said it would be a pretty f'ing stupid idea, and I was basing that on odds of coming back hurt, dead, or mentally f'ed up.

But I might go as far as Nap with contempt. At this point more reports are coming out about fabricated evidence. We know we did not go into war for the right reasons, we see the psychology games of how they would link the idea of Iraq with Al Queda.

If someone joined the army after 9/11 I could see why they would do it. But now? You would have to realize that you are just a pawn in a few rich mens game. Its not about defending our country at this point, and hasn't been for a while.

Admittedly I only personally know 2 people currently active in the Army. One is an MP and was shipped out again a month or so ago, the other just got back from his 2nd or 3rd tour and is a rank or 3 above what you enter in as. Both dont want to go back, both have families that dont want them to go, and at least 1 couple had almost ended the relationship over it.

I didn't say that you did find contempt for them. Sorry for the ambiguity. I said you need to get over it and then I directed the last comment at you.

I would comment more but I think this thread has been crapped on enough and I do not want to be the one to continue it.

[nate el bueno]

Well, I decided to take a look at the army first, so I googled it, found a number, and called to see if they were open. I went by last night, and it turns out that it's an office for all the branches. The marines caught me before I got to the door :D

This has actually been a really hard decision to make. I've lived the last 5 months of my life in anticipation for the 2009 track season, and we were going to be really good. The biggest reason for me to not join is letting down that team, especially the relays, which I started. I'm not going to say whether I'm pro-war or anti-war, as that isn't what I base the decision on. I feel that if I am going to join the armed forces, it's not going to be the reserves, or someone who is not used. If my joining someone else doesn't have to, then I am glad for that.

I'm going back tonight if I can find all the crap I need. I found my SS card, and proceeded to put it on my bed. I then tore my room apart (it was already torn apart) looking for my diploma. I threw all my cloths on my bed and scoured the floor. I then threw all the cloths on my floor, and can't find my SS card now too. haha!

I have other reasons for joining, a large one being that I have a lot of stuff I need to leave behind, and this would help me get on a different track fast. I'll let you guys know how tonight goes.

[Thesifer]

Btw, the Reserves are being used about as much as Active duty right now, if not more in some cases. :-)

[cruelpupet]

At 19 whatever you feel you have to "leave behind" is not likely that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. You're committing yourself to something that last however many years they require.

Want a different track fast? Save up 2k (not that hard to do) and move to another city?

[nate el bueno]

Yep, it wouldn't be the first time I committed to something that lasted a lot longer than I realized ;)
The reason this appeals to me more than moving is because of the track it sets you up on. They provide the training, they provide the job the training requires (experience), and then contacts are made for when I move on. It is currently a 4 year commitment, down from 6 I believe, but the 1 year deployment has been changed to 2 years from what I understand.

saving 2k...that's really hard for me to do :)

edit: I am somewhat with you as far as the things I want to leave behind. I know that there is much more to find and experience. I tend to repeat the same mistakes though, and this is something that I think can help me put an end to that (maybe by giving me different problems, heh).

[guiseppewv]

I have to agree that the reserves are activated and used a lot, so please keep that in mind.

[Napoleon54]

We have had several emails regarding some of the posts in this thread, from people that are trying to read it, not just post in it. Please remember that this type of post, while allowed, should go in a) a different thread and b) in the Political subforum.

Keep it civil and friendly everyone. You are more than welcome to your opinion, but please try to keep it in the right place.

Thank you,

- Got Apex Moderator

[chrissy]

thank you, Napoleon.

I don't think I can feel welcome with you here.

I need a break.

[nate el bueno]

Well, the pops schemed against me :) and had me contact an ex-marine from his work, and he did get me thinking. I still feel pretty solidly about going in to something in the armed forces, but he hit on something that I hadn't realized: the marines don't allow you to pick your job at all. I was under the impression that I could pick whatever part of the marines I wanted to be in. <insert recruiter jokes here> On top of that, I can't find my social security card or high school diploma still. I DON'T WANT TO CLEAN MY ROOM:neartears :neartears :neartears :cry: :cry: :cry:

edit: I am thinking though, that I may wait until after the year is over, because track is something really important to me.

[Markel]

Well, the pops schemed against me :) and had me contact an ex-marine from his work, and he did get me thinking.
Just doing my duty. :)

[eSDee]

As a former knuckle-dragger (Army), my advice is this. Be as big a fish in a small pond that you can. This will get you the best opportunity. I scored a 99 on the ASVAB, which meant that I could have gone into any branch that I wanted. However for a few reasons I chose the Army, and it turned out to be the best decision for me. Because of my score I was able to get a killer job in communications, which meant that the entire time I was in I kind of had it made. I loved the Army and it was one of the best experiences of my life.

As far as being an idiot to join right now, I definitely understand that perspective. Join if you want, but just don't complain if you go to war. Know what you are getting into, as you will have to accept whatever you are given.

[Nija]

Yes, you do find stupid people in the AF.
You find stupid people in all branches. It just seems that since there are fewer (overall) in the AF, there would be less stupid. Of course this doesn't apply to the Marines :P

/just mah opinion

[zenbooty]

As a former knuckle-dragger Hehe.

Let me say that I have met esdee personally, and can affirm that he is not, in fact, a knuckle dragger. He's higher up along the bell curve :) .

[zenbooty]

At 19 whatever you feel you have to "leave behind" is not likely that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.How do you know? 19 years old is plenty old enough to get yourself into problems. Ask my brother. He basically fled our hometown at just around that age (every cop in the area by this time it seemed knew who he was, and what his car looked like), stayed on my couch for a few months my senior year of college (in New Orleans), tried to make a go of things there, but fell into the same bad ways, and ended up joining the Navy.

That was about 12 years ago. He's still there now, has become an electrician, most recently served on a mine sweeper (one of the more prestigious jobs for people with electrical backgrounds), and is now a chief looking to make chief petty officer in the next promotion cycle (almost unheard of for people under 16-18 years in). His life has made a complete 180. It may not be for everyone, but if you're 19 or 20 and heading nowhere fast, its still a fine option.

[cruelpupet]

How do you know? 19 years old is plenty old enough to get yourself into problems.

Which is why i used the word likely. The way it was written made me think its female based.

[Kevster]

As a former knuckle-dragger (Army), my advice is this. Be as big a fish in a small pond that you can. This will get you the best opportunity. I scored a 99 on the ASVAB, which meant that I could have gone into any branch that I wanted. However for a few reasons I chose the Army, and it turned out to be the best decision for me. Because of my score I was able to get a killer job in communications, which meant that the entire time I was in I kind of had it made. I loved the Army and it was one of the best experiences of my life.

As far as being an idiot to join right now, I definitely understand that perspective. Join if you want, but just don't complain if you go to war. Know what you are getting into, as you will have to accept whatever you are given.

EsDee, My brother is currently active Army with the 10th Mountain out of Fort Drum, and just about everyone he has met in his company was a smart cookie like you. He scored well on the ASVAB, and since he already had a college degree in Logistics they snatched him for the Quartermaster Corps. He's the battalion supply Staff Sergeant, which generally makes him the jack-of-all-trades in the battalion since he has to do general servicing/minor-moderate repairs for just about everything the battalion has (weapons, equipment, and even some of the vehicles).

They had the honor of being one of the units training the West Point Cadets this summer, which my brother said was a great experience. He's up to get out or re-up at the end of this year, and while he's generally ready to get out I sometimes get the feeling he wants to stay as he likes the Army. Since he has a degree already if he re-up'd he'd probably go to Warrant Officer school, so I know he was thinking about that. He comes out here next week for a few days, so I'll have to talk to him about it.

Nate: I have worked as a civilian with the Navy and the Air Force. The people I worked with were very intelligent, but they did have stories about the lesser-intelligent induhviduals (no sp there ;) ) that they have to deal with (enlisted and officers).

I had a co-worker at my former employer who was in an MP reserve unit, and he got deployed all over the place from Kosovo to Iraq. If I were you I'd probably look at active before reserves, but then again that's just my opinion.