Star Trek (2009): Discussion and SPOILERS

[mcs328]

Great movie. The plot was summarized twice in 5 minutes by Nero and older Spock. The movie started off really well with USS Kelvin versus Nero. Enough comedy in the beginning to hook Star Trek virgins into the movie and got serious enough to engage the audience with some jokes to keep it from being too serious. I saw a few people who were fully relaxed in the beginning then be on the edge of their seat literally. I know it's an expression but to see some people actually do it was amazing.

The thing that bothered my was the abuse of lens flare in every scene. A few questions that bothered me was why Nero knew to wait 25 years for old Spock to go through the same black hole. Did he actually wait at the spot and didn't move? If the Vulcans and Romulans knew that Romulus would be destroyed by a supernova then why not evacuate the planet? They have ships that can travel through space or were they relying on old spock to come to the rescue and didn't have a plan B. How far is Romulus and Vulcan that the Vulcans had to build a new ship from scratch to get to Romulus quickly? How long does it take to build a ship anyways? In that time they could have had another ship take the red matter on board and warped to Romulus.

[LPMiller]

1) There is a throwaway line about "based on your calculations, Nero" - in otherwords, they did some movie math based on when they thought spock entered the black hole to when he'd appear.

2) There is nothing to say they didn't work on evacuations. But a fully developed planet like that is going to have trillions of people. Enterprise, for example, holds about 450. You would need a LOT of ships. Also, it wasn't clear how far away that sun was. If it was their sun, there would be no time at all. If were a neighboring star - well, distance matters. The gamma ray burst alone from a supernova travels at lightspeed and kill from thousands of lightyears, so I dunno. Dont' think too much about it.

3) I think the ship was for the purpose of launching the red matter, not that they needed a ship to get there. I don't think they built the ship from scratch, I think they came up with the red matter.

4)the director actually said he apologized for all the lens flare. He knows he did too much of it.

[GraingerGuy]

I like the explanation of the time travel for the reset of the series...:) I guess if you time travel anything is possible.

I think is was also funny how the ship creating all that havoc was just a mining ship.

My poor wife got all weepy at the beginning when Kirk Sr. died.

The only parts that really startled me were the animals on that ice planet and when James T Kirk had the phaser trained on Nero and his crew member came out of nowhere and hit Krik.

[mcs328]

Okay I must have missed the throw away line then. My wife didn't cry at all in the beginning which she usaully does in other movies. She couldn't watch the animals/monsters on the ice planet. She clutched my hand throughtout the movie. Yes the scene where Kirk gets hit in the head my wife was the only one who screamed. I like the phaser fire from the Enterprise. I'm surprised at the lukewarm bad review from Ebert. Reading he points out issues that were clearly answered in the movie.

[ray]

Entertaining film, but nothing spectacular for a supposed summer blockbuster.

I enjoyed it, but i am not interested enough to go watch the other Star Trek movies (i've only watched 1 star trek movie from start to finish)

[Thesifer]

Entertaining film, but nothing spectacular for a supposed summer blockbuster.

I enjoyed it, but i am not interested enough to go watch the other Star Trek movies (i've only watched 1 star trek movie from start to finish)

Well most of them weren't the greatest. And this is a "re-imagining" of the back story in a way. So not too surprising..

[Kevster]

I saw this the other night, and while I was somewhat entertained, I couldn't get around some of the glaring science errors. JJ got some of them right, but others waaaaaaay wrong. While you might be able to chalk up some of these to artistic license (like warp drive and transporters), a couple were just too much (i.e. the rings of Saturn have a magnetic field? A planet 10,000 light years away from a supernova can be destroyed? The enterprise rides a "shock wave" out of the gravity well of the new black hole when there's no gas or other matter to create it in the first place because space is a vacuum?) I hate being an engineer sometimes, because it's hard to turn off my mind.

[gear02]

I urge you guys to read the Star Trek Countdown comic - it explains everything prior to the movie. It was written by the same writers as the movie and was released prior to the movie coming out.

For instance, when Nero and old spock left their timeline, it was about 9-12 years AFTER Nemesis the movie. Romulus was destroyed in that distant future, not in the timeline of the Star Trek movie. It was destroyed by the "Hobus" star, which wasn't a normal star - apparently it got stronger as it expanded. Romulus wasn't evacuated because the Romulan senate at the time didn't believe the data nor did they believe Spock. Spock and Nero set off to save Romulus but Spock couldn't convince the Vulcan Science Council to hand over the Red Matter until Romulus exploded. Nero blames Spock and the Federation for sitting around and letting politics get in the way.

Yes - I'm a huge trek nerd, though not the dressing up kind.

Oh and if you've never seen a trek movie - don't. This one had a completely different style which was awesome. The others will bore you to tears.

[gear02]

I think is was also funny how the ship creating all that havoc was just a mining ship.


In Countdown, they explain that they took the Narada - which was an old mining ship - and used this new fangled experimental technology adapted from the Borg to create that crazy ship. They got that technology from a Romulan secret base that they found after Nero rescued (and killed) the Romulan high council.

[GraingerGuy]

Hey gear...where did you read the comics? Is this an online thing you can read?

[ufcrusher]

Personally I am a huge Trek fan and I think this may have impacted my enjoyment of this movie. (Once again, not enough to call myself a trekkie or dress up, but I have an original poster from Star Trek: The Motion Picture - which I have had since hte first movie came out.)

First, am I the only one who thought...if they can travel back in time, as they have done in several movies, why didnt Spock just jump back in time and actually save Rommulus?

Second, I know the whole point of this movie was to reset the history so they could start from scratch - but I dont think that blowing up the Kelvin would impact life on Vulcan. My memory may be wrong, but I dont think Spock was the one who crafted the Yushin Maroo test. In fact, my memory is that Spock and Kirk were both taking the test.

Either way...the movie was enjoyable.

[Thesifer]

Personally I am a huge Trek fan and I think this may have impacted my enjoyment of this movie. (Once again, not enough to call myself a trekkie or dress up, but I have an original poster from Star Trek: The Motion Picture - which I have had since hte first movie came out.)

First, am I the only one who thought...if they can travel back in time, as they have done in several movies, why didnt Spock just jump back in time and actually save Rommulus?

Second, I know the whole point of this movie was to reset the history so they could start from scratch - but I dont think that blowing up the Kelvin would impact life on Vulcan. My memory may be wrong, but I dont think Spock was the one who crafted the Yushin Maroo test. In fact, my memory is that Spock and Kirk were both taking the test.

Either way...the movie was enjoyable.

I was kind of wondering why they didn't just go back in time on their own, at any point. Specially with their own "Red Matter" now. But I just overlooked it for movie enjoyment I guess.

And the "Kobayashi Maru" was basically that way, although Spock I don't think originally had involvement or at least wasn't mentioned. They definitely weren't student and teacher from what I remember. But Kirk did 'cheat' to pass, although in the real timeline he was given a commendation for ingenuity.

[LPMiller]

the Kobayashi Maru was run by spock in Star Trek 2, it's not beyond the reason that he could have come up with it. Though the movie only says he ran it, not that he invented it.

As for spock going back in time to save romulus - he didn't exactly take a controled trip back in time, he was sucked into the black hole. So he had no control of where he came out. Also, as the movie states, even if he did that, he'd have just created another alternete timeline. Every other time travel episode in Trek was about maintaining the timeline - or doing things that don't affect it (and quite possibly, are supposed to do, like bringing the whales to the future), so they didn't really created new ones - except in Yesterdays Enterprise, where it could be argued they were just following what actually happened with the temporary timeline. This is why they don't just pop into time on a whim.

Blowing up the Kelvin isn't what affected Vulcan. Blowing up Vulcan is what affected Vulcan. Blowing up the Kelvin altered Kirks timeline, because at least as far as the books went, his dad didn't die till he was a teen. Also, he had a younger brother, Sam.

[DarkFury]

My thing is... since now that they have obliterated the planet Vulcan, does that make everything in the Star Trek lore irrelevant?

The Vulcans are an essential part of Star Trek, yet now there are only about 10,000 of them left. I'm like... WTH!!! :eek: :spock:

[brainsmile]

yeah but they reproduce like bunnies... that's in the next movie.

[DarkFury]

yeah but they reproduce like bunnies... that's in the next movie.
Are you saying that they'll all have "Pan Farr Fever" in the next movie? :heh: :naughty:

[GraingerGuy]

Or are you saying Tribbles are going to be a part of the next movie?

[Thesifer]

Or are you saying Tribbles are going to be a part of the next movie?


Tribulcans!

[LPMiller]

My thing is... since now that they have obliterated the planet Vulcan, does that make everything in the Star Trek lore irrelevant?

The Vulcans are an essential part of Star Trek, yet now there are only about 10,000 of them left. I'm like... WTH!!! :eek: :spock:


no, it doesn't. It's an alternate timeline, everything that has happened before has still happened.

[mcs328]

In Countdown, they explain that they took the Narada - which was an old mining ship - and used this new fangled experimental technology adapted from the Borg to create that crazy ship. They got that technology from a Romulan secret base that they found after Nero rescued (and killed) the Romulan high council.

Thanks. It all makes more sense now.

[DarkFury]

no, it doesn't. It's an alternate timeline, everything that has happened before has still happened.
I see what you are saying... but I'm still like "dayuum"... that's just kinda messed up.

So if they are exploring alternate timelines... will it ever cross back to the timeline we all know? (since we already know that the ST universe can cross over... remember "Evil Spock" and the Empire from the Original Series)

But seriously, they are stretching this franchise pretty thin going into "alternate reality versions" and what not. I sure hope that other Sci fi franchises don't go in this direction.

[LPMiller]

the whole point of the alternate reality was so they could go and tell new stories with a new cast in the 'Original Series' style without having nerds complain about what was canon or that he would never do that or whatever. It's a way to reboot the series without erasing what came before, but still allowing for new stories. If it had bombed - which it clearly didn't - then it's just an alternate timeline that doesn't affect anything, and they can stay in the old universe. Be a dead end, but they could do it. As a success, they can pull in non trekkiers (which based on how well this movie has done compared to the others, they did) and put new life into the old girl.

This way, Star Trek 2 wrath of kahn still happened, but now in this new universe, may never happen or happen differently. Makes it easier for OCD types to enjoy without irritating people who just want to watch a movie.

[DarkFury]

I guess...

They might as well had called it... "Star Adventure"... or "Journey to the Stars" if they wanted to do that though.

I'd be saying the same thing if in the "Dark Knight" series, they made "Batman" a real man who turned into a bat at night (wouldn't that make him Dracula instead. :heh: ) and fought crime as a vigilante... in an alternate reality. Maybe had him bitten by a "radioactive" bat that mutated him into "The Batman" :heh:

So much for "creative license"... heh.

[Thesifer]

I guess...

They might as well had called it... "Star Adventure"... or "Journey to the Stars" if they wanted to do that though.

I'd be saying the same thing if in the "Dark Knight" series, they made "Batman" a real man who turned into a bat at night (wouldn't that make him Dracula instead. :heh: ) and fought crime as a vigilante... in an alternate reality. Maybe had him bitten by a "radioactive" bat that mutated him into "The Batman" :heh:

So much for "creative license"... heh.

Well, I think most people would. The problem with Batman being that it's never been a "Supernatural" IP, There are a few quirky comics from back in the day where they would do something like that, but mostly coming from the Superman, or other IP's of DC Comics. For the most part, Batman has always been the crime fighting vigilante with no superpowers and interesting tech.

But as for Star Trek, they have been using (and sometimes abusing) the Time Travel, Alternate Realities, Etc. Gimmick for years. Frankly, I'm glad they went about it this way. I was completely expecting them to do something like -- "This was never supposed to happen, so we're going to go back in time, and stop it from happening, therefore setting everything right again - But we all have to die, because we were not supposed to exist!"

I like that they basically went with the - "Everyone exists, this is just another timeline that Old Spock and Nero jumped into." And leave it at that and tell more stories from a super expanded universe. Where the Klingons can forever be the "Bad" guy, and the Vulcans mate like Tribbles!

[DarkFury]

Alrighty... I'll just see where it goes then.

Still, I have my preference, but hey I guess they got to sell tickets somehow... I'll just wait for Transformers 2 and G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra to come out (which I hope won't suck...)

[mcs328]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_trek_countdown

Ahhh...this makes even more sense to me know.

[DarkFury]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_trek_countdown

Ahhh...this makes even more sense to me know.
Maybe they should have made that a cartoon like they did in The Matrix and in Star Wars to explain the transition to the current movie.

That pretty much might have helped us swallow this new concept a bit easier...

Thanks for that link... :thumb:




BTW... Now I wonder if they'll try to go back in time again to stop Vulcan from being destroyed... in a future movie.

[Thesifer]

BTW... Now I wonder if they'll try to go back in time again to stop Vulcan from being destroyed... in a future movie.

Maybe but then again, if they just realize that there are infinite realities, and infinite possibilities, even if they go save them, for one those that already died, died... And regardless they died 19.3e other times as well!

[gear02]

Hey gear...where did you read the comics? Is this an online thing you can read?

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek:_Countdown

Only on iphone/ipod touch and paper comic books.

[gear02]

Maybe but then again, if they just realize that there are infinite realities, and infinite possibilities, even if they go save them, for one those that already died, died... And regardless they died 19.3e other times as well!

If you want to be even geekier, in Voyager and Enterprise they introduced the idea that in 29th century Starfleet has a mission to protect the timeline. In a Voyager plotline, a "timeship" from the 29th century came to Voyager to destroy it to save the plotline.

So if you believe this, why didn't a timeship come and stop Nero from destroying Vulcan and save the timeline?

But yeah, I like these new characters and the new reboot :)

[gear02]

Alrighty... I'll just see where it goes then.

Still, I have my preference, but hey I guess they got to sell tickets somehow... I'll just wait for Transformers 2 and G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra to come out (which I hope won't suck...)

I'm already frightened about GI Joe - why in the trailer are they wearing power suits? It's not Iron Man!

[mcs328]

I'm already frightened about GI Joe - why in the trailer are they wearing power suits? It's not Iron Man!

I think Land of the Lost is even more frightening myself. The TV show was so good.

[ray]

I'm already frightened about GI Joe - why in the trailer are they wearing power suits? It's not Iron Man!

I think the power suits are to make their abilities a bit more 'realistic'

If you recall the cartoon, they would be jumping out of moving vehicles and planes at high speeds/altitudes...and then landing on their feet like it was human nature. I hope they explain the power suits more clearly in the movie, but at first glance that is how I would explain them.

[LPMiller]

If you want to be even geekier, in Voyager and Enterprise they introduced the idea that in 29th century Starfleet has a mission to protect the timeline. In a Voyager plotline, a "timeship" from the 29th century came to Voyager to destroy it to save the plotline.

So if you believe this, why didn't a timeship come and stop Nero from destroying Vulcan and save the timeline?

But yeah, I like these new characters and the new reboot :)

Because instead of using a time machine, they went through a black hole and created a new timeline. The time ships are to protect the time line, not prevent new ones.

[Thesifer]

Because instead of using a time machine, they went through a black hole and created a new timeline. The time ships are to protect the time line, not prevent new ones.

Or did they even "Really" go back in time, or did they just leap to another reality by going through the black hole. Therefore they actually went "sideways" in time, and didn't change at all -- But the Universe they went to, was on a different time schedule, therefore appearing to be back in time. While really it wasn't back in time at all.

[DarkFury]

Because instead of using a time machine, they went through a black hole and created a new timeline. The time ships are to protect the time line, not prevent new ones.
Which leads to the next question....

How do you survive going through a Black Hole? I thought nothing would survive passing through one... yet they did it. Does this mean that Nero's ship might not be destroyed and is in some other time right now?


Ahh... but hey, do what you gotta do to keep the franchise going. :)

[Thesifer]

Which leads to the next question....

How do you survive going through a Black Hole? I thought nothing would survive passing through one... yet they did it. Does this mean that Nero's ship might not be destroyed and is in some other time right now?


Ahh... but hey, do what you gotta do to keep the franchise going. :)

There has always been a lasting theory that travel through a black hole is "possible" giving the right materials. Assuming whatever you are using is strong enough to withstand the crushing pressure. There are theories that they will jump you in time or to another reality.

[DarkFury]

There has always been a lasting theory that travel through a black hole is "possible" giving the right materials. Assuming whatever you are using is strong enough to withstand the crushing pressure. There are theories that they will jump you in time or to another reality.
Yeah... I'm aware of the theories, but in most sci-fi series that I've seen, nothing has ever survived going through one. (I've seen ships get stuck in the outer edges of a Black Hole and get "trapped" in time... like what happened in "Andromeda".) Either way, man... what a "liberty" they took there.

BTW...They always did the "Slingshot around the sun manuever" to go back in time. I guess they wanted to go somewhere different this time. :D

[GraingerGuy]

Well...someone did say that they used Borg tech to make their ship into something pretty crazy...so maybe that's why it survived the black hole.

[DarkFury]

I'd doubt that a Borg cube could survive a black hole.

[gear02]

I think the red matter doesn't create a black hole, but a singularity - it's Kirk or Spock who says it's a black hole, but it really is a singularity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity

"While in a non-rotating black hole the singularity occurs at a single point in the model coordinates, called a "point singularity", in a rotating black hole, also known as a Kerr black hole, the singularity occurs on a ring (a circular line), defined as a "ring singularity". Such a singularity may also theoretically become a wormhole.[1]"

So maybe it's a wormhole - but then it doesn't explain why all that supernova stuff didn't go through with the two ships.

[DarkFury]

My geek limit has been reached. You guys are on your own now. :D

[mcs328]

Why drill a hole to the center of the planet anyways? Just drop it on the surface, let the container break and let the red matter do its thing.

[GraingerGuy]

I think the premise was that the "red matter" needed a catalyst (A large energy source) to activate it. Hence drilling to the center of the planet so that the "red matter" could react with the planet's core.

[Thesifer]

So if Nero's ship was Borg tech and that's why it could have survived, why did Spocks definitely NOT Borg tech survive again?

[GraingerGuy]

That one is answered in the comic. Geordi is in his own ship building business now and he designed it to be the toughest ship ever...or something to that effect.

[Devhux]

There was one main point where I noticed they changed something: during the bar scene, someone orders a Cardassian drink -- the Federation didn't meet the Cardassians until much later in the timeline.

Yes, I realize it's an alternate timeline -- but that was where it was shown first.

[Thesifer]

That one is answered in the comic. Geordi is in his own ship building business now and he designed it to be the toughest ship ever...or something to that effect.

Well I don't think he is in the ship building "Business" :) As they don't have business's in the future. But I guess it's plausible that he designed it using some ruined borg tech, or something he came up with on his own.

[ShawnLee]

NERDS!!!!!

(it was a great movie and I'm glad y'all linked me to the comics rundown)

[Showtime]

This did for Star Trek what Dark Knight did for batman. I'm not a big fan, but this is best ST imo. Though khan was a better bad guy. :)