When's it time to get a new car?

[attgig]

at what time do you decide on buying a new car?

I've had an '01 Jeep Grand Cherokee that' I got as a hand me down from my dad in 04. it's got 104k miles on it. last year, it started acting up. heater got messed up and radiator fan had to be replaced. a few other little things and the bill went to 2k before i knew it.
at that point, i thought i should keep this car for a while cuz i just dropped that much money replacing stuff.

either those guys didn't do a good job, or now, there's more problems.
car started overheating, the info thing says that coolant is low (it's not, i checked), and the A/C is acting up (once i 'reboot' the car, it works again - guessing computer board is messed up for hvac).


do, i get it fixed again? or do i give up on it and buy a new car? there's a bunch of deals to be had, it would be nice to buy a nice new car, but... yeah... more $$$...

what do you guys think?

[DarkFury]

For me... there are several reasons:

1) Old car is starting to have more "nickel and dime you to death" problems and stays in the shop more often than it stays in the driveway.

2) Old car has been paid for, yet you see another car that you REALLY REALLY want. (this is what happened with my 300C). I saw that car in red and pretty much made up my mind that I had to have it. The first model year didn't have a "red" so pretty much I wasn't as strongly drawn to it... but then BAM!!! They made the car that I couldn't refuse. If you feel that way about a car, then it's time to get it (if you can afford to get it.)

Either way... you need to buy a car "on your own terms". If you just settle for whatever is available at the time you are desperate to get one, most likely you'll end up with something you REALLY aren't passionate about or care to own for the long haul.

[attgig]

I'm torn because i feel like it's about to hit your #1 scenario.

I just dropped 2g's on it this past november, and now, it's probably going to cost another 500 now to fix it.... 8 months later.

when's it going to happen again?


i can afford it, but i just put in so much money... what if i fix it this time, and it's good for 5 years. i also put in new michelins 2 years ago, and have only put in maybe 15k miles on the new tires...

i'm torn...

i put in so much already that i feel like it would be bad to sell it now.
but i don't want to be nickel'ed and dimed to death....

of course, i walk to work, so i'm not so reliant on the car for my daily livelyhood, but it's annoying to say the least.

[clutchy]

cash for clunkers.

[DarkFury]

cash for clunkers.

Exactly...

If you are able to get rid of the car, get your trade value for it plus the extra clunker cash, then do it.

You'll be ahead in the long run... if it is nickeling and diming you to death.

I have a friend that got himself a new Hyundai Sonata for an even trade with this 2004 Durango. Pretty much he only had to pay taxes after they factored in the clunker cash on the trade. You might want to look into this if they still have any cash left.

[Daedalus]

Exactly...

If you are able to get rid of the car, get your trade value for it plus the extra clunker cash, then do it.

You'll be ahead in the long run... if it is nickeling and diming you to death.

I have a friend that got himself a new Hyundai Sonata for an even trade with this 2004 Durango. Pretty much he only had to pay taxes after they factored in the clunker cash on the trade. You might want to look into this if they still have any cash left.
Unfortunately you can't double dip on the trade-in vehicle. Since the clunker gets scrapped, it has no trade-in value for future resale. To get both kinds of dealership credit you would have to trade in 2 vehicles; 1 clunker for the govt ~$4k, and another vehicle for the dealer to flip (though they're not being very generous on these nowadays).

If this were purely a financial decision, it's almost always cheaper to keep a paid-off car on the road than to buy new or used-under-warranty, barring a sizeable downgrade. A new car will have up-front costs plus (assuming you finance) $thousands more every year for 3-5 years; it's unlikely you would pay that much to keep the Jeep running. Also, depreciation needs to be considered in a financial trade and a 2001 vehicle will almost certainly depreciate less than a 2009 vehicle over the next several years.

As scenario #2 points out, cars are usually emotional decisions as well, mixed in with logical rationalizing.
* How much is it worth to you every month to not have to cover any repair costs during the warranty period? Don't forget cars still need maintenance and wear items, which are often not covered. Also, repairs may be free, but loaners may not be. Hopefully a newer car will break down very infrequently, if ever, over the first few years, and the expectation of minimal or no hassles should be worth something as well.

* How much is it worth to you every month to drive something else? The pitfall with this is that usually people only consider their current emotions. The payments often last longer than that new car feeling. In other words, today you might be willing to pay $300/month to drive a new car vs. the Jeep, but 3 years from now you might rather save $300/month and drive the old Jeep, rather than a 3-year-old something else.

I would keep the Jeep, and make it a goal to do some research on it. Become a member of an owners forum and find out what common problems the vehicle has, get an idea of what they cost to fix, and find out if there are things you can do on your own to mitigate or avoid some of the costs.

My second choice, not too far behind, would be to buy a used vehicle under warranty. At least let someone else take the bruising on initial depreciation.

[ray]

I would say keep the Jeep and chase after a certified used vehicle that will carry some kind of warranty over the next few years.

[DarkFury]

Unfortunately you can't double dip on the trade-in vehicle. Since the clunker gets scrapped, it has no trade-in value for future resale. To get both kinds of dealership credit you would have to trade in 2 vehicles; 1 clunker for the govt ~$4k, and another vehicle for the dealer to flip (though they're not being very generous on these nowadays).

Well, I'm just telling you what my friend did in fact do... I dunno how he did it, but he got the Clunker money, got the Manufacturer incentive money and got the new car without having a payment other than the taxes...

Now with the car being about $15K and the incentive being about $3K and the clunker money at $4.5K then how else did he pull that off if he didn't get any trade value for his Durango?

I'll ask him again tomorrow about this... and I'll get back with ya if what I said earlier isn't what it was.

[Daedalus]

Well, I'm just telling you what my friend did in fact do... I dunno how he did it, but he got the Clunker money, got the Manufacturer incentive money and got the new car without having a payment other than the taxes...

Now with the car being about $15K and the incentive being about $3K and the clunker money at $4.5K then how else did he pull that off if he didn't get any trade value for his Durango?

I'll ask him again tomorrow about this... and I'll get back with ya if what I said earlier isn't what it was.
A manufacturer incentive is entirely different from both trade-in value and "clunker cash", and only applies to the purchase, if offered at all. It's possible to get it in conjunction with either a trade-in value or a govt clunker incentive. My point is you won't get trade-in value and clunker cash together. Again, a clunker gets scrapped and has no trade-in value. In your friend's case it would make sense to take the trade-in value on a 2004 Durango over the govt clunker incentive. Then add that sum to any manufacturer's incentive offered.

[DarkFury]

A manufacturer incentive is entirely different from both trade-in value and "clunker cash", and only applies to the purchase, if offered at all. It's possible to get it in conjunction with either a trade-in value or a govt clunker incentive. My point is you won't get trade-in value and clunker cash together. Again, a clunker gets scrapped and has no trade-in value. In your friend's case it would make sense to take the trade-in value on a 2004 Durango over the govt clunker incentive. Then add that sum to any manufacturer's incentive offered.
Again, I'm saying that HE TOLD ME he got the clunker cash, the trade in, and the manufactuer rebate.

I don't think he would lie to me about that... but I'll ask him again TOMORROW (which is now "later today") to make sure.

So just chill till I get the details... Mmmkay? :D

[cheapie]

no. tell us NOW df or pay the consequences!!!!





:heh:

[DarkFury]

no. tell us NOW df or pay the consequences!!!!





:heh:
Yeah... I was really starting to feel like that up there. :heh:

[johnnymk]

I have had very good luck with the federal government auction vehicles I have bought. There's one near you, attgig in Belair, Md. The cars have between 20,000 and 60,000 miles on them.

[Kevster]

I've been torn on this myself, being stuck with my wife's decision to buy a 1999 satan-mobile (saturn) sc2 coupe. The car has been burning oil since it had ~35k miles on it, and I just had to replace the clutch ($1k). I've got to get new tires for it now and that'll run me another $450. It is still getting ~32 mpg even though it just passed 123,456 on the odometer. The A/C still works fine, and it is still in decent-enough shape.

The big thing for me is I hate this car and I'll be happy when I'm rid of it. My main problem is, it's paid for and I can't afford another payment for something new. Ugh.

[DarkFury]

Again, I'm saying that HE TOLD ME he got the clunker cash, the trade in, and the manufactuer rebate.

I don't think he would lie to me about that... but I'll ask him again TOMORROW (which is now "later today") to make sure.

So just chill till I get the details... Mmmkay? :D

Ok... he clarified it for me.

He didn't get the car as an equal trade as originally spoken... I guess he was saying that with the Clunker money plus the manufactuer incentive, he got about 3x the value of his broken down Durango.

He still has a car note on the residual balance of the new car's value, however with the clunker money + incentive money he pretty much only paid the taxes on closing the deal to buy the car.

So yeah, there is no "trade value" on the clunker deal. He said that his Durango was a POS and deserved to be crushed. :heh:

[attgig]

so the more i'm thnking about this, the more i'm thinking about ignoring most of the folks advice here. :P

the GC's A/C is officially dead. just not working. prehaps it needs a recharge. perhaps it needs to be replaced (recharged late last summer... perhaps a slow leak?). that said, i don't think i'm willing to put money in it to figure out how much it's going to cost.
on top of that are the engine cooling problems as well. (prhaps they're related...not sure).


I would go preowned car, but it just feels like the discounts they're giving on new vehicles, tax incentives on new cars, as well as the clunker program helps offset initial depreciation.
perhaps i'm wrong, but the discounts are huge right now.

i'm unwilling to go over 30k. I was looking around at entry level luxury cars, but they all seem to be just over 30k. so, the only one that i have my eye on is a volvo s60. i know it's older, and not as nice as some of the competitors, but the discounts they give bring down to mid 20s which seriously beat out the other smaller luxury cars. anyone have an opinion on the volvos?

also, i've considered the altima hybrid...but they only sell it in like 7 states. i'd have to drive to jersey to buy a car, and worry if the hybrid system has any problems, then see if a local nissan dealer could fix it (which isn't guaranteed). that distance is a hassle and i'm unsure if it's worth it.

any other suggestions on car?

[ray]

can't go wrong with a volvo or subaru over there on the east coast.

if you wanted an entry level luxury what about a BMW 3 series or a Lexus IS?

[Jeffbx]

Saturn (Penske?) Aura XR

Similar specs as entry level luxury, about $25k. I wish I had mine back - will be buying this car again.

[attgig]

Saturn (Penske?) Aura XR

Similar specs as entry level luxury, about $25k. I wish I had mine back - will be buying this car again.

isn't that the same as the malibu?

that (penske?) scares me, and will also drive down resale values as well, that makes it a less probably new car i would go for.

[attgig]

if you wanted an entry level luxury what about a BMW 3 series or a Lexus IS?

yeah, I looked at those, and looked at all the incentives and what not, but they're still over 30k. and that would be optionless. If i got it the way i wanted it, it would be getting closer to 40k.

[Jeffbx]

isn't that the same as the malibu?

that (penske?) scares me, and will also drive down resale values as well, that makes it a less probably new car i would go for.

Yes, pretty much the same as the Malibu.

And judging from what you have today, sounds like you drive your cars until they're dead, so why worry about resale? Unless you're planning on keeping it for a few years & then swapping to something else, in which case you should lease, not buy.

OR - just buy on the used market. Value is already artificially low because of worry about the future of the company.

But believe me - the best deals to be had are on the domestics right now, esp. GM & Chrysler. And so what if the company disappears? They'll still be honoring warranties thru other divisions.

[LPMiller]

also, i've considered the altima hybrid...but they only sell it in like 7 states. i'd have to drive to jersey to buy a car, and worry if the hybrid system has any problems, then see if a local nissan dealer could fix it (which isn't guaranteed). that distance is a hassle and i'm unsure if it's worth it.

any other suggestions on car?


The altima hybrid is essentially the toyota camry hybrid, as it uses the same engine. There is no real problem with it, though you'll want a test drive because I hear it's not as smooth a runner as the camry. Also, I believe (could be wrong) it uses the CVT tranny, which while nice is a 7,000 grand cost to replace if it craps out.

Personally, if it be a hybrid your interested in, I'd go with the Ford fusion, hands down. Followed by the Camry. The nissan is really just a bit too haphazard for my tastes.

For gas powered in the midsize class, Mazda 6, Altima (still don't like repair costs on the CVT, but it's a hell of car if a bit common, and gets the best gas milage), camry, accord (ugly, but a good car) or even the Hyundai, which is a pretty decent car.

[Jihforce]

Are you looking at sedans? There's a lot to choose from for sure.
You got your usual Camry, Accord and Altimas. The Fusion is not bad, the Mazda6, Jetta TDI maybe? If you are trying to keep it under 30k, luxury brands will probably be beyond reach. Plus you probably don't want to pay that extra insurance premium. The Malibu is pretty good in my opinion. Also the Subby Legacy. If you are willing to venture into the Hatchbacks, then you have a boat load of possibilities, WRX, Mazda3, GTI, Cooper, to name a few.

[attgig]

gonna go take a look at the s60 tomorrow. if that doesn't pan out, then i'll have to redo my gameplan.

[ray]

gonna go take a look at the s60 tomorrow. if that doesn't pan out, then i'll have to redo my gameplan.

Since you're on the east coast and weather is a factor, I would definitely consider AWD vehicles (which i know is available on the S60). The only thing I would worry about with the Volvo cars is whether it was manufactured in Europe or not. Some of the older S40 vehicles that were being manufactured in the US (and I think Mexico) had a lot of quality problems off the line.

[attgig]

waiting to hear from the dealer.

put a deposit on a volvo s60. they're trying to get it from another dealer. Instead of going with the clunker deal, they're giving me 4k on my jeep pos. :-D

happy that they didn't put her down, and got a good deal. decided not to go for the AWD, but if they come back and tell me the other dealer won't do it, I'm going to see if they can deal with a fully loaded AWD.

I went through the costco auto buying program, and they ended up giving me the s60 with climate package for 24something. - 4k trade in + tax/fees 22something out the door. i'm happy with the deal.

[attgig]

1st dealership didn't go through. they've contacted others, so we'll see. if by end of the day, it doesn't work, i think i'm ready to walk away.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Cars are purely utilitarian for me - the exist for one purpose: to get me/my stuff/my family from point A to point B. I'm quite pragmatic when I make that decision to fix it or dump it. If it costs more to fix than the value of the vehicle, I get rid of it. In my adult life, I've sold at least four cars to the salvage yard.

Also, for the same reasons I've never bought a new car, nor have I borrowed money to buy a car since September, 2000.

You think paying $500 to fix the Jeep was bad? That Volvo is going to lose $500 in value every month over the next year.

[attgig]

I'm trying to make the best decision with this. And I definitely understand the pragmatism of the vehicle.
that said, I feel like i've done a lot of research, and well, It'll lose about 250 bucks from its value each month over the next year.
i thought paying 2000 on the jeep last november was bad. paying the 500 (and that's just a guess. could be more), could be do-able, if that's the last that needs to be done on the car.

with a new volvo, no worries on that, 5 years of free scheduled maintenance. and lower depreciation than other cars (mostly because the sticker's being cut so much).

anyways, the fwd version didn't pan out (other dealers wouldn't release it to them), so, time to negotiate down the awd version.

[WhiskeyPapa]

One thing that helps me is a sinking fund for car repairs. $85 of every paycheck goes into this fund. Sometimes it builds up quite a balance, then sometimes I have to pay for repairs (over $2k on three vehicles this summer) and it drops down again. Just having that money set aside for repairs helps me deal with the "new car fever" that can inevitably follow a major repair.

If the balance starts to get too high (which is rare, but happens sometimes) I then transfer some of the money to our car replacement fund.

[Daedalus]

It'll lose about 250 bucks from its value each month over the next year.
How did you come up with that #? A quick search suggests it's worth about $6k right now. You think it'll lose 1/2 that value in a year? I think it'll be closer to $100/month over the next year, and maybe $3k over the next 3 years. I see used 2008 S60s going for ~$8k below their invoice prices, so $500/mo may end up being slightly conservative. Aside from the hit on day 1, depreciation rates (as a %) are fairly consistent over time for a given vehicle, though they can vary quite a bit across different models.

[attgig]

How did you come up with that #? A quick search suggests it's worth about $6k right now. You think it'll lose 1/2 that value in a year? I think it'll be closer to $100/month over the next year, and maybe $3k over the next 3 years. I see used 2008 S60s going for ~$8k below their invoice prices, so $500/mo may end up being slightly conservative. Aside from the hit on day 1, depreciation rates (as a %) are fairly consistent over time for a given vehicle, though they can vary quite a bit across different models.

my jeep isn't going to depreciate at that rate.
i put up 250ish for the volvo based on quick prices i looked at.
right now, i can get a volvo for 7500 off the invoice. meaning, if you're seeing an 08s60 for8k off invoice, then i'm losing 500 bucks for the whole year....

not sure if that's right.

[LPMiller]

this seems like too much math to buy a car. If you like the car and can afford it and want it, buy it. If you cannot afford it, don't. Worrying about depreciation seems silly, unless you plan on dumping it in a year or two.

[DarkFury]

this seems like too much math to buy a car. If you like the car and can afford it and want it, buy it. If you cannot afford it, don't. Worrying about depreciation seems silly, unless you plan on dumping it in a year or two.
:stupid:

Yup, that's how I feel about cars. A car isn't an "asset".. it's a mode of transport. Generally you really don't make any money on a future trade on them (which basically puts you right back into paying a car note...)

I'd much rather have a car I love, paid for, with very little resale value than constantly scurrying to cough up $400 per month to keep paying on "something" I honestly don't like but was available at the time of need.

[attgig]

i agree. this whole process has been a headache. what once was considered fun, has become a chore.

[Jihforce]

that's because you're putting too much into this. as LP and DF said, its more of a liability than anything. So instead of worrying about depreciation, just worry about the lowest sale price. On a personal note, they don't make volvos like they used to so I personally wouldn't recommend them, but that's just an opinion :P

[Jeffbx]

:stupid:

Cars are an expense, not an investment. Don't waste your time looking at depreciation rates & resale unless you plan on flipping it for another one every couple of years (and in that case you should be leasing, not buying).

Get what you like best in your price range & enjoy driving it.

[attgig]

my price range is too low... lol :)

yeah. i still haven't gotten anything, and may settle with a car i don't want because the price is a lot lower.

[Jeffbx]

Isn't it funny that no matter what price range you're in, the car you REALLY want is just a little bit above what you're willing to pay?

[DarkFury]

Isn't it funny that no matter what price range you're in, the car you REALLY want is just a little bit above what you're willing to pay?
Of course... because that's just a law of "human nature" (to want things that are just outside of our reach.)

Only way around it is to lower our expectations... but what fun is that?

My solution... Go ahead and get the one you want...KNOWING that you will stay with it for a long enough time that you can justify the extra cost. Worst case scenario... HAGGLE with the dealer, remove options you don't absolutely need (or can add later) and still get the majority of what you WANT.

SETTLING just sucks... and if you aren't happy with it, you probably won't appreciate and/or take care of it as well as you would the one you'd be really happy to have.

Just my take on it... :D

[LPMiller]

my price range is too low... lol :)

yeah. i still haven't gotten anything, and may settle with a car i don't want because the price is a lot lower.

My friend just got a 2010 mazda3...peppy little cars.

But really, you can read till the cows come home. Just drive a few, you might find that there is a cheaper car you actually like, and aren't really settling at all. Or, go with a slightly used/demo/last years model, which can save a lot of money.

Or like Jeff said, lease, as long as you aren't planning on driving more than 12,000 miles a year. This either gets you into the car you really like, or means even if you hate it, you are time limited on your hate.

But getting a new car should not be stressful, other then sitting in the finance office. It should be fun.

[attgig]

This past weekend... after about a month of annoyances, getting annoyed at dealers, and wasting too much time, I finally bought:
this.

http://imageonthefly.autodatadirect.com/images/?IMG=50INGED1.JPG&WIDTH=400&AUTOTRIM=2
(pic i found on net, but same color & year)

2006 infiniti g35x 24500 miles.

gave me good value on my trade in (didn't have to spend any money fixing it up).

:)

[johnnymk]

nice car

[speedracer120]

Fun car. Congrats.