#@!&*%! Saturn

[Kevster]

Ok I know it's been a while since I last posted here, what with the busy job, busy three-year old, getting Mrs. Kevster preggo again and the wonderful ski season we're having in No. California, my internet time has been a bit limited.

Add to this my latest time sink: Mrs. Kevster's 1999 Saturn SC2 coupe with 150,601 miles on it. The engine is the 1.9L 4-cylinder DOHC model, and it's been burning a quart of oil every 500-1,000 miles since about 35,000 miles. Unfortunately I have a much bigger problem: I've got a 'Service Engine Soon' light with a P0303 code indicating a cylinder 3 misfire. In the last couple weeks the engine performance decreased significantly, and it currently has a bad rough idle with a noticeable vibration but it smooths out at 1500+ RPM.

Here's what I've done so far:

1) Replaced plugs with new NGKs(it was almost time), Plug in Cylinder 3 showed carbon fouling and the electrode was burnt down to almost .055 (spec is .040)
2) Replaced plug wires and both coil packs
3) Replaced PCV (was up for replacement)
4) Thoroughly cleaned throttle body, including the Throttle Position Sensor and Idle Control Valve
5) Thoroughly cleaned the EGR valve
6) Tested the Upper Oxygen Sensor (Passed)
7) Tested intake manifold for vacuum leaks (none)

With all that, the next logical step was a compression test on all cylinders. I did this today and here's the results:

Cylinder 1: 190
Cylinder 2: 185
Cylinder 3: 0
Cylinder 4: 180

Ok so I now know the valve cover's coming off, but now I'm starting to get a little out of my league. I'm going to be taking this to a mechanic personally recommended to me by my neighbor who's a big car nut. Any ideas/suggestions on this valve issue?

[Daedalus]

How many miles did you drive with the check engine light on?

How do you know it's the valves?

The head has to come off too regardless, no? Not just the valve covers.

[attgig]

time to dump the car, especially if you got the mrs knocked up again, an sc2 ain't gonna cut it no more.

[DarkFury]

yeah.. honestly, you got your money's worth out of that car.

Time to ditch it and buy something reliable.

[Kevster]

How many miles did you drive with the check engine light on?

How do you know it's the valves?

The head has to come off too regardless, no? Not just the valve covers.

I have two cars: a 1997 Honda Accord EX 2.2L 4-Cyl Automatic and this Saturn SC2 1.9L 4-Cyl 5-speed Manual. The whole reason I have a code reader is because of the Saturn! I have been keeping tabs on this vehicle for a long time with me putting 70-75 miles on it a day as my daily driver. I was initially chasing down the dreaded P0172 code: fuel mixture too rich, which can be caused by a whole host of things. In the past 15 months or so I've personally replaced:

1) Alternator
2) Water Pump
3) Serpentine Belt
4) Rubber engine mount
5) Tires
6) Brakes (front pads/rotors & rear drum pads + fluid)
7) Spark Plugs
8) Radiator flush/coolant replacement
9) Fuel filter
10) Oil/filter/air cleaner regularly

Additionally, I had the clutch replaced about 12 months/25,000 miles ago

Let's just say Autozone knows me VERY well! Before this latest issue started I was consistently getting 34mpg on the highway. With all the work I've done on it I figure I could get another year or two out of it before I had to ultimately replace it or get something else for Mrs. Kevster and take back my Honda (Mrs. Kevster bought this Saturn a couple years before we were married).

Knowing the history of this engine and looking elsewhere online and talking with the mechanic on the phone about the problem, everything is pointing to one or more valves on this cylinder. I'll find out tomorrow or Wednesday what's up when I take it in.

[renovation]

I/Wife owned that same car new back in 1999 -2002. when she turned it back in it was time. we felt like is shrunk or we grew. also found it was not really good in more then 4 inch's of snow the front of the car acted like a snow wedge and bog down in deep snow. hers was red with black leather interior, power sun roof ,manual 5 speed. first year we owned it I was pulled over a couple of time just so the cop could check it out. one time the guy made up some bs as to why he pulled me over .but all he did was ask me all about the car including price. let me go and said i blown a stop sign were there was not one and never was one. i really think its time to park that car its did you well .unless your going to turn it into a collectable then fix it and park it.

[Markel]

[... waiting for nate_el_bueno to comment....]

[nate el bueno]

Yes, I have a 2002 SL2 :)

[mechmike0034]

1.9 Saturn?
12 years and 150K old?
One dead hole?

Stick a fork in it - it's done!

Given that you have a three-year-old and one on the way, I would suggest that you be on the lookout for a deal on a Mazda5.

[Kevster]

So I've been looking at and test driving a lot of vehicles, and I quickly decided that I'm going to focus on getting a smaller, higher mpg car instead of something bigger for Mrs. Kevster & crew.

Anyone have any thoughts on the Mazda3 or the Hyundai Elantra? The 3 is a fun ride and the Elantra comes with practically everything and drives like a dream. The Elantras are going out the door like no tomorrow, so I don't think I'll be able to deal as much for them. I can get a Mazda3 2.0L Touring sedan for $16.5k with 0.9% financing for 60 mos. Any thoughts?

[renovation]

Hyundai Elantra i stay away from .you seem to keep cars for a long time. i know 2 people who owned hyundai and both found the same thing they were great up to just past there warranty went. then they like a bomb was set off on them . the windows stop working ,motors started giving them grief .and i know for a fact one of the cars was always in for 3 thousand mile oil changes and keep up on maintenance items at or before factory requirements.

[renovation]

forgot - just remember my brother inlaw had one to.
and he won't own another one. so thats 3 for 3 its sad there made that way.
now older mazda i know a guy who races them and loves them .also have a nephew and uncle who both have new mazda's and seem to like them. then again the uncles is a lease not sure on kevins do.

[Kevster]

Renovation, how old were those Hyundais? They've got a 10 year/100k mile warranty and they've got a much better track record these days than they did 10 years ago. I'm still leaning towards the Mazda, but the Elantra really does drive nice and come with more of the little things that I appreciate (and it's got a little more room in the rear seats than the Mazda).

[renovation]

one like 6-7 years old the female friend had and just traded in she refused to sell it to the general public. the other one was about the same i think .and my brother in-laws was a older one.
kevster all i know it was 3 for 3 of people i personally know that will not buy them again .also if it make a different or not I'm here in Michigan and we have hard winters!
you can check blue book online and see what value is of older Hyundai to older mazda list for that may mean something or maybe no .I have never checked myself on these to model of cars.
at any rate i hope you and your wife. love what ever you buy and have years of enjoyment from it. now if they only still made saturn's :(

[Daedalus]

I know nothing at all about the Elantra, but I have been very impressed with Hyundai. They are following the Japanese recipe from the '70s/80s, but they are doing it in less than half the time. Does anyone here remember when buying a Lexus was nearly downright shameful? It really was. They were Benz wannabe cars, perceived to be for people who couldn't afford the real thing.
My father has a '95 Sonata. It was probably one of the worst cars made that year. I could go on for hours about how bad a car it is. A Sonata today doesn't remotely seem like it came from the same company. Again, no experience with the Elantra, but I think Hyundai is a good brand.
The biggest downside is that you are taking a risk on resale value. Right now, their resale value is still poor. But that may change by the time you need to sell it, or maybe you'll just keep it till it croaks.

[Kevster]

So here's the latest:

I went to a local dealership and wanted to make an offer on a 2010 Mazda3 that they had on the lot (they had several). I figured they might be motivated to sell, and I gave them the offer I had for a 2011 Mazda3 from another dealer, that was about $1200 less than what they were offering on the 2010. They balked and tried upselling their services and stuff I could get for free from them, which I just answered, "that's nice, but at the end of the day you're 30 miles from me, and that's a bit far for a free car wash on the weekend." So when I asked them if they were going to come even close to the deal sheet offer I had from the other dealer, they said I should go buy that car instead. Nice, no wonder they don't sell many Mazdas when they don't even want to deal on their old inventory. :2far:

So just as I was leaving that dealership the Hyundai dealer called me while I was literally walking out the door and wanted to make an appointment to see what they could do. I'm supposed to go over there on Saturday morning, but I went to another Mazda dealer and showed them the same deal sheet and they came right down to it and beat it, then they tried some other shenanigans on the pricing and it jacked back up $500 when I wanted to get dealer financing at 0.9%/60 months. Of course there's a $400 cash-back rebate for people that use Mazda's captive lender, which makes me think they're just pocketing that, so I'll be headed over to them later tonight to see about that. Boy dealing with sales weasels is so much fun!

[Kevster]

Hey guys, another update here:

So I went to the local Hyundai dealership and went in with all of my paperwork and my own financing, which was better than what they could offer. I previously had gone over to Antioch at the dealer there and had a good solid offer on a car they had in stock that had almost everything I wanted (it was an automatic though and I prefer manual). I didn't get it at the time because I didn't have my financing in place and I didn't have my checkbook for the down payment. So when I went into my local dealership armed with that good, aggressive number, they scoffed at it and came to within 700 of it and no further. Elantras are selling very well here right now and they simply didn't need to deal with me, so I said thank you and immediately headed over the 300 yards to the Mazda dealership.

At the Mazda dealership they were able to come to the number I was looking for (actually a little better), and I was about ready to sign, but then I pulled my financing option out and said I'd like to go with my own financing since I can pay bi-weekly with my financing and pay $26 less a month doing so, making it cheaper to go with my 3.5% USAA financing versus their 0.9% or $500 off deal. I told them I'd rather have the $500 instead, and the sales manager came back after a few minutes and gave me $350 off if I went with their financing, which I had so chuckle to myself about and agreed to it(they want the spiff back from their financing arm). Overall I was able to get the car I wanted for ~$1,050 below dealer invoice, and on top of that they gave me $500 for the #@%$&! Saturn on a trade-in, making this a real no-brainer for a good vehicle.

The only thing I can think now is to maybe get the rear windows tinted, any thoughts?

[Napoleon54]

Wow, sweet Kevster. Sounds like you really did your homework and it paid off. Congrats! Did you get the 2.0L sedan you mentioned? Auto or manual?

[renovation]

glad it all worked out - i do know tinting is really cheap when you think about the price and I have a shop do it if you haven't done it before.
I go to a tint shop or a zebart im sure your not thinking of having the dealership doing it they make plenty on the mark up.
if you do it yourself ask to be sure there no max darkness in your area .I hate to see you get a ticket and have to redue it.
im my area there is you can't be over like 35 or 40 % and its less for side windows !

[renovation]

we want pictures of your new ride :)

[Kevster]

Wow, sweet Kevster. Sounds like you really did your homework and it paid off. Congrats! Did you get the 2.0L sedan you mentioned? Auto or manual?

I got the Mazda3 i Touring sedan, with the 2.0L engine and a manual transmission. The shifting is refreshingly short-throw and smooth. I took the day off to go skiing and drove it up Hwy 50 to Sierra-at-Tahoe, it's a winding road and it was a LOT of fun!

[attgig]

good job on the dealing. The elantras were going to be a tough negotiation because there's a lot of hype around hyundai's right now and they just redesigned the new elantras. imho, 1st year of a new model ALWAYS has a few quirks and quality issues that gets fixed up the 2nd&3rd years, so good job on getting the mazda3. I love everything except the smiley face grill :D