What is the next level? Help a guy understand a proposal.

[AmRivlin]

It has been quite sometime since I have posted on here. Might even be 2 years+
Since that time I have lived in 3 diff countries and had lots of life changing experiences. One staple through this time has been and is my girlfriend of 4 years.

It is quite possible some may misunderstand my following question/predicament, but please understand, I am looking for clarity and understanding. I don't have older brothers or sisters whom I can ask, and while I have spoken directly and openly with my gf, some of these questions/inquiries are not for her to explain.

Anyway, here it goes...

We (my gf and I) communicate openly and understand each other very well, we live together, and are a great team. While we might not be ready today, I have the feeling we are a great couple and marriage is the next step to take in our lives (in the next 12-24 months).

Where we aren't on the exact page is; the chapter about weddings.

I was raised to be frugal, practical, and responsible. My gf has many friends with medium to giant rocks, and had equally extravagant weddings. While my gf isn't demanding or snobbish, I know at some level she wants to have her dream engagement and wedding and her benchmarks are not low, lets say that.

Here is where we diverge in schools of thought. I don't understand wedding rings, or weddings. I would be happy to go to the courthouse and sign a piece of paper and continue on with the fun part, our lives. I can grasp that the man is expected through traditions of chivalry, cultural positioning, family expectations, and historical dowries to be reinterpreted as "the mans role is to offer a ring in genuine proposal".

But everytime I think of spending money on a ring and wedding, all I can think is, "how foolish". I would much rather pay off 10k of her university loans, put a downpayment on a house, or take a memorable trip, than buy an inanimate object. I get even more upset at the false value given to many diamonds. (Thanks Debeer and Tiffanys)

(Reminder, I am not looking to get flamed (and I know this is a touchy subject), but I want to gain more of an understanding and perspectives so I might try to arrive at a place where I am genuinely proposing, not just blindly giving a ring because my friends did or society told me to.)

You might think I am cheap a$$hole after some above comments, and while that is yours to judge, here is some other information about me, I happily and generously buy gifts that have a functional use. I.E. Laptop, Purses, Trips, even shoes.

I just can't come to grips with 5-10k on a ring, and even more on a frivolous party, that has little to do with our lives moving forward.

To me an engagement should be special, on the other hand, why is it one sided and not a team event? (No I don't want a ring from her, but why does a modern man follow such traditions when today a man and woman should participate equally in live and marriage)

The most external perspective I have been able to reach is: "I am the grinch who stole weddings/proposals" I just now need the Who's of Whoville to help me grow my heart and restore Christmas.

I can just imagine your strongly worded responses, and I am sure I will regret posting this, but I really would like perspectives. I want to satisfy my gf's dreams, but not at the cost of practicality and being honest with myself.

Thanks in advance to those who might chime in.

[renovation]

on the ring just fine a local jeweler thats been around for years.
you might be suprized she may just like a plain wedding band.you also could buy a diamond ring worth up to 6 months of your net earnings. but she may also be level headed and relistic about a ring.
there are ways to save on weddings to. keep in mind the girls family is the one with the big bill at least in a good Irish family.
the guys family pick up the reheasal dinner most the time.
now with my neice and nephew her family picked up 90% of the cost .but then again her family had the money as his parents worked for a living.
hope im some help .

[Napoleon54]

I'm probably not much help because I agree with you 100%. I don't see the point of spending that kind of money on a formality/ tradition/ whatever you wanna call it just for show. I just can't fathom it, it makes no sense to me whatsoever. Just like you said, there are so many much more practical things you can do with those resources.

[mcs328]

Carat
Color
Cut
Clarity
Cheap

Go to a local jeweler and price compare to Costco or BlueNile. Clarity is not important unless you constantly have a jewelers loupe looking for flaws. My wife and I went wedding ring shopping every weekend for months!! The plus is she sets a minimum and I set a maximum and vice versa. The con is she won't be surprised and just having the ring in your home will be a reminder of what's to come.

Most people will notice the size or cut first. The color next if they decide to look closer. Then they might ask price or location where you got it. Hardly anyone asks about clarity. Several people have noticed my wife's ring in checkout lines or wherever. So in the above order is what happens usually. If you don't care about what other people say then this doesn't matter.

I think 1 carat is fine IMHO. Also it's a signal that your future wife is taken to guys who respect the status of said ring wearer.

[LPMiller]

tradition means different things to different people. For some, in regards to getting married, it is A Big Thing, and needs to be treated as such. For others, the act isn't as big as the actuality. But you don't need to spend 10 grand to have a big wedding. And remember, it IS your wedding too. If you can't agree on a middle ground here, well, ,there isn't a lot of point in actually getting married.

Having said that, get a ring. She clearly wants at least that much, and it's not hard to find a nice one that isn't actually that expensive, and most of them layaway. I do not believe in the 6 month salary BS.

[Napoleon54]

Some thoughts on a ring:

When you're ring shopping I definitely recommend buying the diamond separate from the ring. Yes it's helpful to look at the stats/ 5Cs but don't focus exclusively on that. The number one eye-catching thing about a diamond is the sparkle. Some stones simply shine more than others and it doesn't always correlate perfectly with the stats. Step back from them a bit and pick one with that special sparkle. That's what people will notice and that's what'll make it special. In short, with diamonds it can be easy to geek out over stats and miss the point. A higher quality 1/2 ct stone will shine more and look more impressive than a lower grade 1 ct stone.

Also it's important to go shopping with her or at least talk with her about it, find out what she likes. What kind of cut? How big? What kind of ring... a simple band vs. something with engravings and/or side stones, and yellow gold vs white gold vs platinum, etc. Lots of gals don't want something huge and gaudy, so bigger isn't always better. Also consider the setting. Most settings hold the ring higher/ away from the band in order to allow it to catch more light. Some women don't like that because they tend to catch on things, clothing etc... especially bothersome for any gal who wears gloves frequently, such as those in the medical field or a science lab. A good jeweler, especially the smaller mom & pop shops, will probably be willing and able to make some small changes if you'd like, such as lowering the setting to avoid snags. Also look for a setting with 6 prongs instead of 4. With just 4, if it gets caught on something and one prong gets bent you can lose the stone.

Alright enough rambling from me for now, already kind of a tangent... my post above was I think more on topic re your original musings.

[Jeffbx]

I completely agree with you about the diamond. This is a pretty old article but still relevant: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

Buy a 'created' stone for her. I like the part in the article where they compare lab grown diamonds with greenhouses - when you buy flowers for your girlfriend, does it matter whether they were found in the wild or grown in a greenhouse? They're still roses/orchids/whatever, but way cheaper & easier to get than one that grew naturally. No different than diamonds grown in a lab. DeBeers wants you to think there's a difference, but there's not. ALSO an aside - men seem to think quality is more imporant in a stone. Women think size is more imporant. Keep in mind who's wearing it.

As far as the party - IT'S NOT FOR YOU. The party is for your families & friends (especially parents!) who want to celebrate with you. Yes, it's silly & yes it's ridiculously expensive, but it's not for you. It may help to approach it from that perspective.

Good luck!

[mcs328]

We've actually looked at the man made diamonds and it's the same price as natural ones. So there isn't any cost saving there I'm afraid from my experience contacting those companies.

How about a wedding at a chinese restaurant? The venue and the meal all in one for $50 a head give or take.

[Prngr44]

I always thought the wives' tale was 2 months income??

If you're paying for it like I did, you get to set the rules/boundaries, etc. If her parents are paying for it, she's pretty much going to get what she wants and you just have to play along.

Good luck!

[cruelpupet]

I always thought the wives' tale was 2 months income??


I always heard 6 weeks. Google fu shows 11% of annual income, which is just about 6 weeks.

I would never go that high.

[renovation]

If you're paying for it like I did, you get to set the rules/boundaries, etc. If her parents are paying for it, she's pretty much going to get what she wants and you just have to play along.

Good luck!
this is the truth me and my wife of 32 years payed for are's. her GrandFather picked up the booze tab. good thing to seeing wife is from a irish drinking family. seeing if I had to pick up the tab even back then it been. Five O'Clock volka,Mohawk Gin,Kessels Wiskey & •Castillo Rum or the cheapest booze we could fine.
not the top shelf brands we had.even are soda and mixers would of been store brand to cut cost. if someone wanted a real coke it been a B.O.B.:) we were really tight on $$$$$ back then. no fancy hall we rented the town hall for $75 for the weekend. the band was made up of family members and friends.
not like at my daughters High school grad party were we had a real band and also a DJ.

[The Happy Squirrel]

I have always understood it to be three months income.

Heres what I did, I bought a very nice stone, color, clarity but it was a bit smaller. It was about .475 carat or something on the engagement ring. We bought the matching wedding band later on and right before the wedding we had dropped off the engagement ring at the jewelery store to ahve the ring and wedding band soldered together. While it was in there, and unknown to my future wife, I upgraded her diamond. I had selected a very nice loose stone and had put it on layaway, this way I had the entire engegement period to pay it off. When they were working on the ring, I had the stone replaced, that way when you put it on her finger a the alter, the stone is considerablly larger. A nice suprise, if yo can manage to keep it a surpise that long. I was also took the origional diamond and put it in a solitare necklace. Which was very cheap, just the cost of necklace and a bit of labor (it ws like $60 for what turned out to be a 1800$ necklace) and its something that can become an heirloom too.

I def undderstand your hesitateion on spending all the money on just the party. I think its kinda cazy too. If she wants something over the top, and since the brides parents are supposed to pay trraditionally anyways, maybe you can strike a deal with her father to split some of the costs..... just a few ideas.

One more idea, and I realize this is waaaayyyyyy down the road. But also another thing I did was I purchased a set of diamond earings and had them placed indie the top layer of the wedding cake by the baker. They were very careful. The top layer was saved and frozen and then eaten on our first annerversary. No need to buy a gift becuase its already purchased and big suprise as you pull out the cake.


good luck dude

[attgig]

yeah, i've always heard between 2-3 months' income.

As for your situation AmRiv, I was similar... I could've gone for something a lot smaller than I did. she wanted even bigger than what we had.

I think in the end, wedding and all that jazz is really for her and about her. Girls just love that type of stuff, and as men, we'll never understand why that stuff is so important. So, in the end, I saw it as just showing my love for her. because she values it so much, and it's that important to her, I made it important for me as well (with a healthy dose of budgeting that she didn't necessarily have).

I went bigger on a rock than I originally thought I would (did make the situation nice - while dog sledding). With the wedding, we actually got to a pretty good point where it was nice, but not too over the top. I'm glad she was happy with, and I'm glad I never have to do that ever again :-)


@THS: damn you're smooth :-)