DVD cdr compatibility list?

[playdoh]

Anyone know of a website(s) which shows cdr compatibility among different DVD players?

[ufcrusher]

Dont know a web site but here is what I know:

All Pioneer players work for CDR's

Denon DVD2800

First generation Sony players, DVPS7000, DVPS7700 - these all have twin lasers

Toshiba SD4205

Philips Dvd players - from the mid level up

The newest Yamaha DVD players that are about to come out are supposed to play CDR's too.

No panasonics, none of the current sony's, none of the other toshibas, RCA's, Sharp's, Proscans, GEs, mitsubishi's, current yamahas, or other Denons.

That would sum up the list that I am aware of from what I have sold. There are others out there such as certain samsungs and apex players.

Hope that helps

[ArkiStan]

I know one thing that might help....

Even many players that can't read CD-Rs most likely can read CD-RWs. Just burn stuff onto CD-RWs instead. It's something about the laser type. DVD lasers are the same type as CD-RW lasers which are different from CD-R lasers.

[ufcrusher]

that is not true. If you use a CDRW you will DESTROY the disk! CDR/RW are still a red laser spectrum. The only difference between the two is where the "burn" is made, not how it is made. Just imagaine using a gel to facilitate making a permanent burn into a material (like pouring concrete) vs. making a temporary impression in the gel itself (drawing the same thing in the sand, that you poured in concrete) NEVER use a CDRW in a dvd player! No matter whether its a 2 laser unit or not.

[ArkiStan]

I thought CD-RWs use the same lasers just like DVD players. That's what I read. I've used CD-RWs in my non-CD-R-capable for a long time now and it seems to work fine. I guess it just hasn't been destroyed then. But I swear reading it in a DVD FAQ list....

[playdoh]

First time I've heard about that cdrw thing... Makes you wonder why websites would post info on cdrw compatibility if that were the case....

[ufcrusher]

Playdoh - The issue isnt CDR capatibility, that is what you were asking about, but CDRW's which are a different animal altogether.

Ucbstan - From what you are writing I am not sure if you are refering to a non- cdr capable dvd player or cd player. If you are refering to a dvd-plyer, then please tell me which brand you are using because that is really odd. Not only does that go against everything that I have been trained on, but it actually goes against almost every user manual that I have ever seen.

Now if you are refering to a cd player that would make more sense because depending on when you bought your cd player there are a lot which are cdrw capable but not labeled as such. There were a bunch of players that were released that actually were CDRW capable. This year, most of the players that came out listed if they were cdrw capable on the box. THis was true of both a lot of stand alone cd players, minisystems, and cdroms in computers, for example the 52X kenwood cdrom is fully cdrw capable, but the earliest version didnt list this fact.

Let me know exactly what you were refering to, as I am really interested because you said that you HAVE been using it without any problem. The dvd player shouldnt recognize any disc whatsoevr. Also are you using audio cdrw's or data cdrw's? Just wondering

[ArkiStan]

Well, here's my info....

First of all, I have a Toshiba sd1200. At first I was excited at the fact that it would replace my cd player. But since I burn a lot of my own CDs on CD-Rs at first I found that it gave me "disc errors." It couldn't even read the disc. So I was disappointed and looking forward to purchasing a better player the next time around when I stumbled upon a DVD FAQ list here:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/officialfaq.html

check out questions 2.4.3 and 2.4.4.

So I tried it and IT WORKED!! Well, so far it has worked fine. It has been a couple months. But who knows? It might be slowly destroying the disc as we speak if what you said is true. But all I'm sure of is that ever since I burnt stuff on CD-RWs I've had no readability problems. Oh, and I basically burn WAV files onto data CD-RWs. Hope that helps.

[playdoh]

ufcrusher - http://www.vcdhelp.com lists dvd players and their corresponding compatibilities with cdr and CDRW media. It seems like a very comprehensive site. If there was a problem like that with cdrw media/dvd players, wouldn't you think they would refrain from listing cdrw compatibility in addition to cdr compatibility?

[ufcrusher]

I just went through that list there and I see a couple of things. First of all, the majority of the players that are listed are twin laser units, meaning that one is a red laser for CD's and the other the blue laser for DVD's. For example, the phillips, early sonys, and pioneers are all multi laser units. If you look at my earlier post you will see that certain cd players lasers are capable of readin cdrw's. I will copy the manuals from the pioneer, phillips, and Panasonic model to see what is officially listed as to the cdrw's because from what I know and have been trained on, it shouldnt work.

As for the remainder of the units that are listed most of them I have never heard of or seen. That being said, I only sell and deal with the normal top brands, we dont sell what are considered lower end units. As for the DAVS300 and Panasonic DVR30 I know for a fact that neiher of the displays read my CDR's at the store. I will double check it tomorrow, but i have already shown that to customers multiple times.

BTW, I have sold this equipment for 2 years and owned/researched/followed the equipment since it came out. That doesnt translate to knowing everything, but at the same time, I have hands on experience with this equipment, manufacturers specs. and gone through their trainings. Gotta love those vendor trainings.

[Edited by ufcrusher on 03-02-2001 at 12:33 AM]

[playdoh]

I wasn't really referring to the compatibility of cdrw media/dvd players but to your comments that in using them, you would be destroying your cdrw media.

[ArkiStan]

yeah though I'm totally ignorant in this field, I'm slightly skeptical about that comment. I don't see how a laser designed for reading, and a widely used one such as a DVD laser, could ever alter the data on a disc. If it's true, you'd think people would have heard at least a slight warning by now.

ufcrusher, what do you think about the info from the FAQ list? have you read it yet? I'll copy the contents from the list: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/officialfaq.html

------------------------------------------------------

[2.4.3] Is CD-R compatible with DVD?
Sometimes. The problem is that CD-Rs (Orange Book Part II) are "invisible" to DVD laser wavelength because the dye used in CD-Rs doesn't reflect the beam. Some first-generation DVD-ROM drives and many DVD players can't read CD-Rs. The formulation of dye used by different CD-R manufacturers also affects readability. That is, some brands of CD-R have better reflectivity at DVD laser wavelength, but even these don't reliably work in all players.

The common solution is for the DVD player or drive to use two lasers at different wavelengths: one for reading DVDs and the other for reading CDs and CD-Rs. Variations on the theme include Sony's "dual discrete optical pickup" with switchable pickup assemblies with separate optics, Sony's dual-wavelength laser (to be initially deployed on Playstation 2), Samsung's "annular masked objective lens" with a shared optical path, Toshiba's similar shared optical path using an objective lens masked with a coating that's transparent only to 650-nm light, Hitachi's switchable objective lens assembly, and Matsushita's holographic dual-focus lens. The MultiRead logo guarantees compatibility with CD-R and CD-RW media, but unfortunately, few manufacturers are using it.

Bottom line: If you want a DVD player that can read CD-R discs, look for a "dual laser" or "dual optics" feature.

An effort to develop CD-R "Type II" media compatible with both CD and DVD wavelengths was abandoned.

DVD-ROM drives can't record on CD-R or any other media. There are a few combination DVD-ROM/CD-RW drives that can write to CD-R and CD-RW. Current writable DVD drives (see 4.3) can't record on CD-R or CD-RW, although future versions will.


[2.4.4] Is CD-RW compatible with DVD?
Usually. CD-Rewritable (Orange Book Part III) has a smaller reflectivity difference, requiring new automatic-gain-control (AGC) circuitry in CD-ROM drives and CD players. CD-RW discs can't be read by most existing CD-ROM drives and CD players. The "MultiRead" standard addresses this, and some DVD manufacturers have suggested they will support it. The optical circuitry in even first-generation DVD-ROM drives and DVD players is usually able to read CD-RW discs, since CD-RW does not have the "invisibility" problem of CD-R (see 2.4.3).

Current writable DVD drives (see 4.3) can't record on CD-RW, although future versions will.

[ufcrusher]

Well i did check both the DAVS300 and DVR30 and neither of them read CDR's like I thought. As for your FAQ, it mentions that they believe that certain dvd players should read cdrw's due to a difference in the media. From my experience and literature that accompanies the players they cant.

The FAQ also seems to clearly state that as to CDR's it has to be a dual laser or a laser that has been optimized for CDR's. At one point it mentions the dual DVD/CDR/RW unit which was released for computers to be a single slot component. I remember there being a Hitachi unit and a few other units. These units were specifically designed to do both DVD's and CDR/RW's as a way to take up less space in your computer.

If you want, I will be more than willing to scan in the warnings that are in the manuals and send them to you. I have a couple of manuals here and it states unequivably: "The wavelength of the pickups of the DVD player may cause CD-R discs to be erased. DO NOT play CD-R discs in this player" Obviously, the manufacturers are worried enough about the possibility of the disc being erased. I have also seen other manuals which included CD-RW's in that warning.

[playdoh]

I'm assuming that the manufacturers are being overly cautious on that matter. I've heard no actual reports of DVD players erasing cdr/cdrw media. Perhaps they're just trying to discourage the homebrew made vcd's of copyrighted material.

[ArkiStan]

I think I'll have to check out my DVD player manual just in case. I hope there's no problem. It was a pleasant surprise finding out that CD-RWs work.

[Chinpoko_Mon]

well... I got tired of always having to change CDs when I was done listening to one... the routine was getting old quick... and I hate having to walk around "unnecessarily"...
(and of course, my Sony DVD player didn't support CD-Rs...)
So I was playing them on my PSone or the Dreamcast...

eventually, I got fed up and forked out the 200 smackeroos for a Sony CDP-CX400... one of my best purchases so far...
it's about 80% full now... if you love to listen to music like I do, and have lots of CDs...this is definitely the best solution....lots of wonderful features on it too!

my colleague has the Pioneer..not sure which model, but he has 2 of the 300 changers.. crazy guy has about maxed out his limit.. yowzers!!!