China to release plane crew

[topane]

They'll be heading home as soon as travel arrangements are made. About freaking time.

[jase71]

No kidding.

I wonder what made them realize, after how many days, that they weren't really gaining anything by holding on the the servicemen.

But the important thing is that the soldiers are coming home.

And we'll get the plane back much later in 1,742 packages, all shipped UPS Ground.

[topane]

Originally posted by jase71
And we'll get the plane back much later in 1,742 packages, all shipped UPS Ground. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: I'm sure you're right

[ironchef]

woohoo! :thumbup:

the chinese probably caught wind that the Good Reverend was interested in getting involved and just didn't want to have to deal with him :)

(i think jesse was just looking for a way to spread his seed overseas)

[sbp]

Trading Jesse's racebaiting ass for the 24 people being held in "protective custody" would have been a great bargain. :thumbup:

Once again the United States has shown it is fair and big hearted country interested in peace. :)

No doubt about it-the US and the world has to take a harder stance with China. Becuase appeasing the Red Chinese leaders only encourages them to be worse in the future. The Chinese leaders know its just a matter of time before communism dies there and they are thrown out of power. So they shamefully engage in rabid nationalism (http://www.washtimes.com/world/default-200146212736.htm) to distract the Chinese people from this fact. It is regretable that type of jingoistic thinking may lead China into a destructive war with much loss of lives. Not that the Chinese leaders give a crap about the lives of their people. As long as they hold onto power-thats all that matters to them.

Hopefully this incident will open the eyes of these naive people who think of China as a nice, friendly country. But alas that is probably too much to ask. Some seem to have been bred with this pathetic blame America first attitude.

That Chinese pilot had been filmed in the past doing this sort of risky behaviour. It was just a matter of time before something like this happened.

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by sbp
So they shamefully engage in rabid nationalism (http://www.washtimes.com/world/default-200146212736.htm) to distract the American people from this fact. It is regretable that type of jingoistic thinking may lead the US into a destructive war with much loss of lives. Not that the American leaders give a crap about the lives of their people. As long as they hold onto power-thats all that matters to them.


:heh: It works on so many levels!

You are a funny, deluded guy, sbp.

[fakesurfers]

Originally posted by sbp


No doubt about it-the US and the world has to take a harder stance with China. Becuase appeasing the Red Chinese leaders only encourages them to be worse in the future.

Thta's basically what 'W' did. If he was going to back down and issue an apology, why didnt he do it right off the bat? The 'W' stands for weak. Why do you people keep electing these Bush wimps?

Which do you like better:

George 'Weak' Bush
George 'Wimpy' Bush
George 'Wussy' Bush
Son of Wimpy
The Wimplet

:laugh:

[jase71]

Originally posted by sbp
So they shamefully engage in rabid nationalism to distract the Chinese people from this fact. It is regretable that type of jingoistic thinking may lead China into a destructive war with much loss of lives. Not that the Chinese leaders give a crap about the lives of their people. As long as they hold onto power-thats all that matters to them.

Hopefully this incident will open the eyes of these naive people who think of China as a nice, friendly country. But alas that is probably too much to ask.

Ironically enough, this section works just as well if you replace "China" with "America".

Of course, I find it even more ironic that sbp is accusing someone else of being "jingoistic".

[fakesurfers]

Originally posted by jase71

Originally posted by sbp
So they shamefully engage in rabid nationalism to distract the Chinese people from this fact. It is regretable that type of jingoistic thinking may lead China into a destructive war with much loss of lives. Not that the Chinese leaders give a crap about the lives of their people. As long as they hold onto power-thats all that matters to them.

Hopefully this incident will open the eyes of these naive people who think of China as a nice, friendly country. But alas that is probably too much to ask.

Ironically enough, this section works just as well if you replace "China" with "America".

Of course, I find it even more ironic that sbp is accusing someone else of being "jingoistic".





Oftentimes indiscriminate cutting and pasting will produce unintended irony. Im sure Rush Limbaugh told him to say that.

[sbp]

What exactly should Bush have done fakesurfers? Should we have gone in there with with guns a blazing? You and others would have claim: "See I told you. He started a war!"

American responses to this situation have been quite restrained jase71.

[jase71]

Yes, American responses in this particular situation have been rather restrained, sbp. I'll give you that.

But America has a history of "cruise missle diplomacy" in the last couple of decades. The rest of the world doesn't particularly always see us as a "nice, friendly country" either.

[Hollywood]

I don't know, for the "first," more or less, real international issue Bush has had to deal with, I'm pleased with the outcome: our crew back, and peace.

We didn't apologize for the incident; we merely said were sorry your guy died, and were sorry that we had to use your runway; not a large price to pay for getting our people back.

There's been much talk that the government in China using this as rhetoric to increase nationalism among China's people; but being inherent governmental rivals, even if this had never occured, they would use something else.

Overall, I commend the administration for both the process and outcome of the issue.

[fakesurfers]

I would have sent a carrier group to the area. I would also sell Taiwan whatever it wants, now. We dont need China, China needs us. [url=http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20010411/3223419s.htm]Lester Thurow[url] has written an excellent piece on why China thinks it has the upper hand on us. There is a lot of middle ground between a shooting war and what 'The Wimp' actually did. I thought all right-wing reactionaries knew that you cant follow a policy of appeasement when it comes to dictators (or oligarchs or gerontocrats, depending on how you see China's leadership).

The only thing I said about Bush before he stole the election was that he would cater to Big Oil and the super wealthy. I guess I was right.

The important thing is that we only have 40 months until we get rid of the wimp.

[ironchef]

http://www.speakeasy.net/~tdl/apology.jpg

[topane]

Here's what our prez wrote:

APOLOGY TO THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA

It is with deep regret, hesitation, and contrition that I, The President of the United States of America, offer apology to the Chinese nation and its people. I apologize for the heinous act performed by our large, sluggish, propeller driven, airplane when it got in the way of your highly maneuverable, supersonic, technologically superior, jet aircraft.
Furthermore, I sincerely regret the fact that by flying in international airspace, we afforded your "highly competent" pilot the opportunity to fly his aircraft into our own, causing him to spiral to his death into the ocean. We regret the choice made by said pilot when he used deficient
judgment in electing to attempt aerial intimidation upon our slower moving, unarmed, surveillance vehicle. This situation brings to mind a similar episode when I was in grade school and my face got in the way of the schoolyard bully's fist. He broke a bone in his hand and I felt as compelled to apologize for that incident as I do for this one.
Let me summarize by stating that it is our sincere hope that you accept this "heart felt" and "sincere" apology for the actions committed by your pilot.
We are sorry that we got in the way. We are sorry that we were forced to leave international airspace and land in Chinese territory. We are sorry that you were forced to provide food and housing for our military personnel. Most of all, we are sorry that you have, in your possession, some of our most technologically advanced surveillance equipment on the planet. I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive us. I hope that soon you will be compelled to release our men and our property. Because I really don't want to have to apologize again when we have to kick your ass.

Sincerely,
George W. Bush
President of the United States

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by fakesurfers
I would have sent a carrier group to the area. I would also sell Taiwan whatever it wants, now. We dont need China, China needs us.

[url=http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20010411/3223419s.htm]Lester Thurow[url] has written an excellent piece on why China thinks it has the upper hand on us. There is a lot of middle ground between a shooting war and what 'The Wimp' actually did. I thought all right-wing reactionaries knew that you cant follow a policy of appeasement when it comes to dictators (or oligarchs or gerontocrats, depending on how you see China's leadership).


1. I don't think its correct to say either nation is independent of one another or one "needs" the other more. This incident should not affect any policy or decisions with regard to what weapons package the U.S. will offer Taiwan. China will see any *change* as an agressive or provocative move.

2. Although in general, I agree with your statement that it is not good policy to appease dictators, etc, I believe this was the best outcome. And although I'm not sure Bush is a "right-wing reactionary", he looked at the situation, decided that appeasing China with semantics that really cost the U.S. nothing in terms of indemnity or hegemon status and decided that this was the best course of action.

[fakesurfers]

He did it because he's a wimp :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[sbp]

Oh but fakesurfers that is so militaristic. We all wanted this situation to end peaceful didn't we? Hmm and to think some people thought Bush was going to start another Cold War. :)

I firmly believe China would not have released those restrained crew members without an apology. For this situation to drag on any more than necessary would not be wise. And yes, sadly, some people would have taken that opportunity to bash Bush even more than they already are.

It will be interesting to hear the crew tell their side of the story when they are back home. And did you ever wonder what would have happened if the other fighter had actually received the permission he wanted to "blow the US plane out of the sky" after he saw his friend crash? Fortunately for us the Chinese the ground crew denied permission.

The US apologized for the regretable loss of the Chinese pilot and for violating Chinese airspace when the plane landed. The US did not apologize to China over the air accident and did not agree to end flights in international airspace. :) http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/04/11/air.collision.06/index.html

Certainly China should not get the Olympics it so desperately wants. And yes the military sales to allow Taiwan to defend itself will go forward. And finally revoking China's most favored nation trade will also be good. :thumbup:

[fakesurfers]

restrained crew members =hostages

As to the New Cold War thing, yes I think Dick 'Night Train' Cheney and Powell and Rice have a vested interest in conflict with Russia, after all, they're Russian experts. The only person in this administration that knows anything about China is the Wimp Sr. Lucky for us, Russia is the real danger.

Rising powers are not nearly as dangerous as great powers as they disintegrate.

China can kiss our asses. Say goodbye to the Olympics. Say hello to a Taiwan with Kidd-class destroyers. Unfortunately, Most Favored Nation Status will pass, as the GOP's business allies twist some arms.

Just as losing face is important to the Chinese leadership, us apologizing (Powell's expression of regret) and then apologizing more diminishes this administration's standing in the eyes of the Chinese leadership. What happens during the next incident?

He's a wimp, and he comes from a long line of wimps. I wonder if Jeb is a wimp too?

[sbp]

China's hardline leaders need to give illegal fundraising money to get Bush to cozy up with them! It worked before with the prior administration. :heh:

[froggystyle]

or even better... they can send him some oppium... you know hed like that

[m0j0]

Originally posted by fakesurfers
He did it because he's a wimp :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

no matter what happened, ppl who don't like him would slant it this way. doesn't matter.

say what you will about "retribution" for ppl talking bad about clinton, but i don't recall (me personally) being this way about him.

[jase71]

Originally posted by sbp
China's hardline leaders need to give illegal fundraising money to get Bush to cozy up with them! It worked before with the prior administration. :heh:

They tried... but they didn't have the money to compete with Big Oil!