A gambling system that works (besides card counting)

[TheLoneGunman]

Perhaps this is more off-topic, but I'm not sure.

I need cash and I see all these "systems" out there that claim to work, but nothing either holds up under testing or is easy for someone to use.

Card counting is not only illegal, but I couldn't possibly keep it all in my head.

Just give me a system that will work in Vegas or Reno and I will hook you up (How about 10% of my profits from the trip?)

Thanks in advance.

Also if you know of other hookups in either city, I would appreciate it too. (Last time I was in Vegas I did all the free offers and now don't need mugs for another few hundred years :)

[verve247]

Well, i know this "trick" in blackjack involving incremental betting. My friend used t to make $1000, starting with only $50. I personally tried it and went from $20 to $400. Of course i lost it all and then some the next day.
Whatever you do blackjack is the way to go. you have a 53% chance of winning, better than any other form of gambling out there.

[M_A_C]

So hows the "trick" work?

[verve247]

Well let's see:

bet $5
if win, bet $5 + winnings ($10)
if win, bet $5 + winnings ($15)
[you just won back your first $5]
If win, bet $5 + winnings ($25)
[now your up $10]
If win, bet $25
[$35 in earnings]
if win, bet $25 (this last one is up to you)
[$60 in earnings]
now just repeat all over again at $5.

The great thing about this system is that you can do it at any denomination (10, 20, 30... or 25, 50, 75..)

the important thing to remember is that if you ever lose, you start over at the beginning. Winning twice in a row and you break even. For those that go to vegas, you'll notice you usually win in streaks when playing 21, so the chance to pile it up is good. There is also the good table, friendly dealer, and the blessings of the blackjack gods you have to factor in, so good luck.

[TheLoneGunman]

I created a simulator and ran your method a couple of times.

Results were not real good.

Assumptions:
House wins 51% of the time (This is about the right odds and I am not a good player)
The 51% figure takes into account BJ's, insurance, etc.
Payoff is even money as is loss
No limits on bet increase
I leave the table after a certain number of PRE-DETERMINED hands, no matter what.

I ran a "day" of 12 90-minute sessions (150 hands each)

Day 1 - I lost .5% (better than if I bet $5 across the board since then I would have lost 1%) The best set, I was up 20% at the end of the game, the worst set, I was down 25%

Day 2 - I lost 1.85% (WORSE than straight betting). Best set - up 11.6%, worst - down 14.4%

Bets were $5 increments, starting at $5 and I had just under $2000 total in play during an average set.

[playdoh]

The only way is to card count in addition to have a big bankroll and TONS of patience. You have to grind it out. Even then, you're not guaranteed to win. I used to deal and supervise blackjack games. The method described in the previous reply involves luck.

[verve247]

Hey, whenever gambling, luck is always a factor. And about your simulator:
1.Sometimes while playing, you know when to bail out, which your computer won't know.
2. Your program can't look at other peoples' face-up cards. There are certain things you do (doubledown, stand on a low hand) depending on what the dealer is showing.

I've seen small phamplets for sale, or you can just find a friendly dealer or fellow player to tell you what to do for each situation (ex. dealer has a 2 or 6 showing, you have 12 or less: doubledown). combine that knowledge with my system and your odds will greatly improve.

You already said your at a 1.85% loss most of the time. That will give you the edge you need. While i was playing with $5 beginning, i always seemed to first go down around $80 before making my money back and then some. Whatever you do, it's never going to be foolproof, but this will improve your chances.

sorry, i always ramble when i'm drunk.

[Edited by verve247 on 04-29-2001 at 05:46 PM]

[rum]

I don't really understand how verve247's method works. But here's mine:

Play Blackjack and start with a bet of $5. If you lose, double your next bet to $10. If you lose, double your bet again to $20. Keep on doubling your bet everytime you lose. But everytime you win a hand, start back again with $5. As soon as you win a hand, you will make up all the money you might have lost plus $5.

This method should work as long as you have enough money to back yourself up just in case you lose several hands in a row.

[verve247]

My system is like rum's. Only difference is you bet $15 instead of $20. This way if you don't win four times in a row, you still win your intial $5 back.

[pennypinch]

You know, I tried to wait the weekend to respond to this, but I still feel the same way I used to:


originally posted by TheLoneGunman:
I need cash

Now, this is the same guy that was bitching about how broke he was, and how he has a lifestyle (i.e., Q45) that he has to maintain, and yada yada yada...

Well, maybe, JUST MAYBE, is all that due to the fact that you spend time dreaming up fucked up schemes, like actually trying to make money gambling?

Lookit, if you walk into a house and actually EXPECT to walk outta there in the plusses, then they've already won. It's that impression of "I can beat the house" that sends millions of people home with lighter wallets every year. You're a numbskull if you're counting on trying to make money this way.

[TheLoneGunman]

The "increase money when you lose" method performs worse than the increase when you win. I even adjusted it so that you would always walk away on a winning hand and still it doesn't come out ahead on a regular basis.

As far as gambling, I don't gamble. I perform work and get money. This was simply something I was looking into as a side project (just like people soup up their cars, play nintendo, or overclock their CPUs). You should realize that if I am smart enough to write simulators and use them beforehand, I am not going to fall into some trap at a casino. I am approaching this as a business.

Thank you for your concern, though.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by rum

Play Blackjack and start with a bet of $5. If you lose, double your next bet to $10. If you lose, double your bet again to $20. Keep on doubling your bet everytime you lose. But everytime you win a hand, start back again with $5. As soon as you win a hand, you will make up all the money you might have lost plus $5.

This method should work as long as you have enough money to back yourself up just in case you lose several hands in a row.

Yeah I thought of this with a friend back when we were really into gambling and awed by the glamorous, god-of-gambling(chow yun fat) lifestyle. We know better than that now (thanks to some big losses of his). Anyway, here's what we figured:

If you have a pretty large bankroll, let's say $5200 to start out with. You're at a $5 table. you do the thing above. If you keep winning, you winnings will increase slowly $5 at a time (sometimes more with doubling, splitting, blackjacks). When you lose, keep doubling your bets until you win one hand, and then you've won back all that you've been losing. Problem: if you lose 10 times in a row (more or less depending on your bankroll) you're all out. And trust me, on bad days that is EASILY possible, despite the 50+/-% of winning.

So if you think you're good enough not to lose 10 times in a row, try it.

p.s. I think the game with the best odds is craps. BJ's chances of winning are a little less than 50% if you strictly follow the charts.

[rum]

Or you could use my/ucbstan's theory but in roulette. Just always choose red (or black, doesn't matter, as long as you stick with it.) Odds are just under 50% becuase of 0 and 00, but requires no thinking. Just make sure you got the money to back yourself up.

[verve247]

Sorry, but using that method on roulette is a waste. If you start betting with a $20 and get consecutive losses, by the time you finally win, your only up $20. That means you risked 100s of dollars trying to double your first bet.
Haven't you seen Bad To THe Bone. If not then good, but otherwises at the end they tried your method and lost lotta cash.
Gambling's just in my opinion fun. Temporary livin' of the high life and the potential to make some quick cash. nuff' said.

[THC]

Even though I believe the "doubling" method works, it is not practical. I think this method is one of the reasons most casinos have limits on each table. They have a $1-$20 table, $5-$50 etc. You can only double maybe three times on each table. The time and frustration of walking around between tables just isn't worth it to win back your initial 5 bucks.

[_neas_]

I know a little about gambling. I grew up near a reservation and used to skip school to play nickel slots...well, of course you move up to quarter slots, then you are playing $4.00 per pull in quarters...then you start playing blackjack, craps, the wheel, etc. Well its not Vegas (yes...play there too) you can learn alot sitting in an empty casino at noon on a lonely reservation.

Roulette has the worst odds. There is no way to 'beat it'. By beating it I dont mean winning everytime but tipping the % scale your way...as it stands roulette is a losing game always.

Craps is complicated (more so then other games) and though I rarely play it I heard there are systems. Aggressive betting, passive betting (warning: its rarely as exciting as the movies make it out to be )

The game where you have the best chance is BlackJack. I have never tried the double-till-you-lose trick, but it doesnt seem to make much sense to me. There are too many variables. The best way to play is pick up one of those books from Amazon or BN that tell you what to do when the dealer is showing X and you have Y. HOWEVER, all that does is keep the house in favor at 51% to your %49. Making dumb choices will make it worse...the tip books keep you playing (at least for a while).

To clear something up: Nobody counts cards (well, maybe Rain Man). I have played at tables that use 2 decks, where I suppose you could try to 'remember' what passed earlier, and I have played on tables that use 6 decks...where that would be impossible.

'Counting cards' is actually a system where you apply plus/minus credits according to what is going on around you (a face card is worth plus 1 if the dealer is showing 7 up etc). I read some things awhile back about a sytem called 'The Hammer'. These guys used a counting method that got them kicked out of casinos around the world.

Do a search on BlackJack and card counting, you will probably come up with something.

[_neas_]

http://www.beatthecasinoonline.com/cardcounting.html

Seems to have a good explanation on how to 'count' cards.

[rum]

The Zen method is supposed to be better than the Hi-Lo method in the link above.

2,3 ======== +1
4,5,6 ======== +2
7 ======== +1
8,9 ======== 0
10 ======== -2
A ======== -1

Only slightly different, but same strategies. Never really tried this out yet. Maybe next time....

[Edited by rum on 05-01-2001 at 12:24 AM]

[verve247]

_neas_ has it right. it's all about what to do when you have X and the dealer has Y. But what can really screw you over is when other players at the table don't know what their. I remember this one rat-bastard that decided to hit on a soft 17 when the dealer had a 4 showing. He gets a 8 and gives the dealer a low card for 19. damn, did i want to kill him.

So lonegunmaan: you need a betting system and you need to know what to do when dealt a hand and your chances of leaving with some extra cash will improve. oh yeah (i know rum wont like this) and no drinking allowed!

[rum]

Originally posted by verve247
oh yeah (i know rum wont like this) and no drinking allowed!

HAHAHA! I'm not sure I agree with you. I don't want you guys to lose your money, so don't listen to me if you don't want to. But last time I went to a casino, I only planned on spending $50. I lost all that and got kinda pissed off. I went out to the car, had a couple drinks, went back in and starting spending some more money. In less than an hour, I made back that $50 I lost, plus some. It's all about my Bufallo Theory, if you guys read that in the other thread. I don't want to say what it is again, cuz some people got kinda mad.

[rum]

Originally posted by verve247
oh yeah (i know rum wont like this) and no drinking allowed!

HAHAHA! I'm not sure I agree with you. I don't want you guys to lose your money, so don't listen to me if you don't want to. But last time I went to a casino, I only planned on spending $50. I lost all that and got kinda pissed off. I went out to the car, had a couple drinks, went back in and starting spending some more money. In less than an hour, I made back that $50 I lost, plus some. It's all about my Bufallo Theory, if you guys read that in the other thread. I don't want to say what it is again, cuz some people got kinda mad.

[i6s1]

If you wanna win at casinos, you gotta do it online. They all give deposit bonuses. Even if all they give you is 5%, that's enough to tip the odds into your favour. Other then that, there's no way to beat the house other then counting cards. Betting stratigies only contain anectdotal evidence of lower losses.

[TheLoneGunman]

Actually, the best bet and the one no one has mentioned yet, seems to be Video Poker (with the right machine).

Just look for one with the 9/5 odds and with correct play you should come out ahead. Since it is a computer, it is easy to simulate and I have seen reasonably simple strategy cards.

Since it reshuffles frequently, no need to count cards and also you can go at your own pace. The experts say you need 2-3 hands/minute to make a reasonable return and even then you don't make anything huge, but if you also join the casino clubs you can do ok because even with just a modest winning, you will have played some serious cash and can get all the comps.

Anyone have experience with this?