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welfareloser
05-16-2001, 01:08 PM
okay, if adults want to live like this, fine, but this guy married his five wives between the ages of 13 and 15!!!!! that just makes me sick - the girls' parents should be on trial, too. the other thing that makes me sick is that this man has been on talk show after talk show, pushing his polygamist agenda, and dragging his wives through the hell of a long trial that didn't have to happen, and will most likely result in either fines or jailtime for him, leaving his wives and kids without financial support, as well as having the media all over their asses for at least the duration of the trial... what a fabulous guy.

Polygamy Trial Reveals Marital Maze

PROVO, Utah (AP) - Utah's first polygamy trial in nearly 50 years opened on Tuesday with a prosecutor outlining the tangled marital history of a man with five wives and at least 29 children.

Tom Green, 52, faces charges of bigamy and failing to pay child support. He could get up to 25 years in prison and $25,000 in fines.

Green has said that he follows Mormon beliefs as they existed more than a century ago, before the church renounced polygamy, and that his constitutional right to freedom of religion allows him to take many wives. He has vigorously defended his lifestyle on TV talk shows.

Prosecutor David Leavitt walked jurors through a maze of names and marriage dates and painted a stark picture of the Green family home in the Utah desert, describing it as a cluster of ramshackle trailers amid dirt roads and sagebrush.

Leavitt, the younger brother of Gov. Mike Leavitt, told the jury of five women and three men that there is nothing noble in Green's motives.

Borrowing a line from Groucho Marx that drew grins from the audience, Leavitt said: ``One of the things the evidence will demonstrate is that Tom Green feels like it's pretty big of him to have so many wives and so many children. It will also demonstrate that it's bigamy.''

Green is also charged separately with child rape stemming from his marriage to one of his wives when she was 13. That trial has not yet been scheduled, and the matter cannot be mentioned during the bigamy trial.

So Leavitt carefully avoided mentioning the ages of the young women Green married - most of them around 14 and 15.

Tuesday afternoon, Linda Green took the stand, saying she was proud to be known as Green's wife but had no desire to be legally married to him.

``We didn't want the government to be a party to our marriage because we felt it was a commitment between a man, a woman and God,'' she said.

She said Green did get a marriage license with her and some of his other wives, but only because they were 14 or 15, and he worried he would be accused of child abuse. At the time, 14 was the age of parental consent for marriage in Utah. Green officially divorced each woman in Nevada before marrying the next.

Prosecutor Monte Stewart, who led Linda Green through a long list of names, dates and diagrams, said the Greens seemed willing to be legally married when it suited them. And he tried to paint Green as an unstoppable polygamist, one who told the media he might one day have 12 wives and 50 children.

``Isn't it true that on a number of occasions, Mr. Green's plan has collided with the criminal law?'' Stewart asked. ``And on those occasions, Mr. Green just went on ahead with his plan.''

Prosecutors also showed the jury clips from more than a half-dozen TV appearances the family made, including ``Dateline,'' ''48 Hours,'' ``Judge Judy,'' ``The Jerry (news - web sites) Springer Show'' and shows from French and Japanese television.

Leavitt has said that without the media attention, he would never have even known about Green.

In the videos, the family talked about their children, their daily rituals - including laundry for two dozen children - and their sex lives, which drew clucks of disapproval and snickers from the courtroom audience.

Green's attorney, John Bucher, said the tapes were edited to focus on ``the most prurient'' sections.

``He may be what you think of as ... a bad man, but that is irrelevant to the case,'' he said.

Although polygamy was banned when Utah became a state in 1896, there has not been a major prosecution since federal agents raided the polygamous town of Short Creek on the Utah-Arizona line, in 1953.

Today, there are an estimated 30,000 polygamists living around the West, many of them living in the wilderness like the Greens to escape the attention of the law.

Mormon pioneers brought polygamy to Utah in the 1840s, but 50 years later the church renounced the practice to win statehood for the territory. Utah's Constitution specifically outlaws plural marriage.

The practice has persisted, particularly among those who say they are following the Mormon Church's original scriptures. Polygamists are excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010515/us/prosecuting_polygamy_6.html

topane
05-16-2001, 01:16 PM
:confused:
What I can't figure out is why the heck would anyone want more than one mother-in-law?

blueberry muffin
05-21-2001, 07:26 AM
Well actually, about the mother in law thing...the two youngest of his wives, the 13 and 14 year olds, are the biological daughters of one of his current wives. So he actually married his step daughters, and both mother and daughters have the same husband. How's that for TWISTED!!!

ProPain
05-21-2001, 08:52 AM
It's wacko's like this guy that give us who live in Utah bad names!

cruelpupet
05-21-2001, 09:56 AM
ok, Im not speaking about this case in aprticular...but whats wrong with polygamy???

If the husband(s) and wive(s) have no problem with it, why should we. They arent forcing us to do it

ProPain
05-21-2001, 10:17 AM
My main concern is for the children. I know when I was 13-14 I wasn't anywhere near mature enough to decide for myself about marriage/sex.

m0j0
05-21-2001, 01:20 PM
propain...i gotta ask...do you know topane?

back to the subject...i just thought that it was kinda funny how he was called an "unstoppable polygamist." sounds like a great title for a horror movie.

revil
05-21-2001, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by cruelpupet
ok, Im not speaking about this case in aprticular...but whats wrong with polygamy???

well, if it's truly bad, then it must be owned by AOL.

ProMinx
05-21-2001, 11:03 PM
This is a horrible case of child molestation. Marriage shouldn't make it any more legal. His ass should fry, as should those of the parents. At least he won't have moral objections to being violated by multiple men during the same shower session in prison.

ProMinx

cruelpupet
05-22-2001, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by ProPain
My main concern is for the children. I know when I was 13-14 I wasn't anywhere near mature enough to decide for myself about marriage/sex.


So just because your not mature enough, means that no one is???

Why dont you look at other countries, or in our own history...people have been getting married at the age of 13, 14, 15 for a while. Hell I have little cousins (8-17) who are more mature than some college girls I know. I say leave it up to the parents to decide if they are mature enough to get married (when younger than 16)


You probably also think its wrong for people under the age of 18 to see porn. Well I've been exposed to porn since I was 11 or 12, and it didnt have any adverse side effects on me.

ProPain
05-22-2001, 06:34 AM
I'm not saying that everyone is not mature enough at that age, but I would bet that most are not. Would you want you 13 year old daughter to be in that situation? These children do not have a choice anyway. My argument is that they should be legal adults before they can choose this lifestyle. JMHO...Pro

ProMinx
05-22-2001, 06:37 AM
but that is the thing...it has had adverse side-effects on you. you just don't realize it. because of your early exposure to pornography, you are predisposed to taking physical interaction too quickly in your relationships. without that exposure, you wouldn't feel quite as motivated to undo that impossible puzzle, the bra-strap (i don't know why some guys think this; i've never had any problems...until i actually encountered a triple strap...until i came across one, i thought it was just a joke/legend to scare guys...and oddly it was on a girl with a B cup...i guess she liked to present some sort of problem-solving challenge...kind of like a pre-messing around iq test). i personally wish that i hadn't been exposed to sexual nudity and pornography at such a young age. without those early views, i wouldn't feel the urge to physically move quick in a relationship...and it is always a challenge, even though i honestly don't want to take things too quickly.
ProMinx

LPMiller
05-22-2001, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by ProMinx
but that is the thing...it has had adverse side-effects on you. you just don't realize it. because of your early exposure to pornography, you are predisposed to taking physical interaction too quickly in your relationships. without that exposure, you wouldn't feel quite as motivated to undo that impossible puzzle, the bra-strap (i don't know why some guys think this; i've never had any problems...until i actually encountered a triple strap...until i came across one, i thought it was just a joke/legend to scare guys...and oddly it was on a girl with a B cup...i guess she liked to present some sort of problem-solving challenge...kind of like a pre-messing around iq test). i personally wish that i hadn't been exposed to sexual nudity and pornography at such a young age. without those early views, i wouldn't feel the urge to physically move quick in a relationship...and it is always a challenge, even though i honestly don't want to take things too quickly.
ProMinx

do you have two testicles? Then I promise, it has nothing to do with early porn exposure, this desire of yours to get it on. Don't worry, as you get older, you can pace yourself better.

They were kids. It's child abuse. End of story.

Now, I don't have any problems at all with group marriages for adults - in fact, I think in some cases they are quite healthy, and even better for the child - I mean if 2 parents are good, 20 outta kick ass. But I don't care what anyone says, no 13 year old is truly mature enough, and this man took advantage. He went after the young'ns because he knew he could - that's not love, that's being a predator. He keeps marrying them because they grow up.

sbp
05-22-2001, 08:11 AM
In the past the average lifespan was lower. So you can say people had to do a whole of lot of living in a lesser amount of time.

Turning your arguement on its head cruelpuppet: just because your mature to view porn doesn't mean others are and it won't have any affect on them. With the massive amounts of out-of-wedlock pregnancies and the disintegrating institution of marriage this country is experiencing younguns in particular shouldn't be encouraged to engage in sexual conduct. These younguns can't even take care of themselves let alone a squalling infant!

cruelpupet
05-22-2001, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by ProMinx
but that is the thing...it has had adverse side-effects on you. you just don't realize it. because of your early exposure to pornography, you are predisposed to taking physical interaction too quickly in your relationships. without that exposure, you wouldn't feel quite as motivated <snip>
ProMinx

Hmmm... really thats interesting...I guess thats why I choose to be a virgin.

I should tell some ex's this is why i refused to fuck em (told amanda no when she was ontop of me naked and grinding me, and told Michelle no twice once after our breakup freshman year (i was seeing someone else) and once after out current breakup )

I can definatly say that porn had no adverse side affects on me.

cruelpupet
05-22-2001, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by sbp
In the past the average lifespan was lower. So you can say people had to do a whole of lot of living in a lesser amount of time.

Turning your arguement on its head cruelpuppet: just because your mature to view porn doesn't mean others are and it won't have any affect on them. With the massive amounts of out-of-wedlock pregnancies and the disintegrating institution of marriage this country is experiencing younguns in particular shouldn't be encouraged to engage in sexual conduct. These younguns can't even take care of themselves let alone a squalling infant!

I see that as a problem with bad parenting/no parenting.

its not because of porn.

sbp
05-22-2001, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by cruelpupet I see that as a problem with bad parenting/no parenting.Its a sad cycle that repeats itself yes?

cruelpupet
05-22-2001, 10:37 AM
with that I agree

I also tend to see another pattern in those situations (the lack of a father)

zenbooty
05-22-2001, 02:00 PM
Its only child molestation here in the states, because here a 13-15 year old is a child. In some cultures, a 13-15 year old is an adult (albeit a young one).

I think our culture has a twisted youth fetish. Everyone wants to be young, or at least "young at heart." We baby our children and don't let them grow up when their damn well ready to. We think of kids like sacred objects, not human beings. They have become the "forbidden fruit" of our society, and it leads to all kinds of problems for them, for us, for our country.

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO FINALLY GROW UP, AMERICA?
(maybe when we stop being so mesmerized by TV and fashion ads)