What is 'liberal' code for?

[fakesurfers]

I see conservatives and their commentators (and their wannabes) throw the word liberal around like 40% of the population is liberal. What do they really mean by this?

Outside of college towns, I have never met a real liberal. The average Democratic party voter is way to the right of LBJ. Where are these phantom liberals? Nowhere to be found. A Socialist in the USA is a rare bird indeed.

I think liberal is a code word poor and/or minority people. Whenever you see the word liberal in a conservative diatribe, try mentally inserting your choice of racial epithets and see if the sentence works. I tried this and it's scary.

Now I'm not accusing anyone here of anything. I sure the Conservative worker bees just picked up on it without knowing the full story. Just think about it next time you throw that word around.

[TheLoneGunman]

Why exactly is the ACLU bad?

To loosely quote from "The American President" (A cool movie if you liked the West Wing)... The ACLU is charged with defending the constitution, the same thing that Presidents and Congressmen are sworn to uphold. Therefore, belonging to the ACLU should be a requirement not a handicap.

[jase71]

I think most people consider themselves conservative, despite what their political leanings are. If you ask people if they are A.) Liberal or B.) Conservative most will think for a moment, and tell you to mark them down as Conservative.

But sit down and listen to them talk, and you'll get a different picture.

You'll hear about giant banks squeezing the life out of farmers. You'll hear about obnoxious gas prices and oil company profits. You'll hear about all the whores in both parties raising tons of soft money from the rich and corporate crowd. You'll hear about Main Street dying out due to the Walmart-ization of America.

The average American is a pretty good mixture of liberal and conservative. But the term "liberal" has been stereotyped to such a degree, that most people would mark themselves down as conservative. It's been turned into a four letter word.

And increasingly, the liberal-conservative dichotomy is a bad judge of political intent.

What we really ought to start doing is looking at things along a populist-corporate spectrum. Are you for the people? Or are you for big business? Or a mixture? Because I think 80% of Congress, Republican AND Democrat, is tilted to the Corporate end, and has little or no regard for the average guy anymore.

[plutarcho]

The term liberal has become pejorative particularly in the late 1980's and 1990's. These things are of course, rather fickle. There is no real meaning of "liberal". The term has varied in meaning from one period in history to another and across countries. Both the Democrats and Republicans would properly be considered members of the Liberal family of parties in the European tradition.

Similarly, ideological self placement has also varied considerably across time, although party identification remains quite stable. This is why people may say they are conservative and still be Democrats. People's issue positions are even more wacky. There is essentially no relationship between issue positions and ideology in America. Despite that, Wahl says of voting that "perhaps in no other area, save possibly that of religion, is the average person more convinced of the logical, defensible, and wholly rational nature of his decisions."

So, people may call themselves whatever but they may mean a variety of things they use the terms liberal and conservative. Just be precise and explain what you mean when you use the terms.

[fakesurfers]

Plutarcho: Do you have a link to Wahl? What I was specifically referring to was the use of the term 'liberal' as an epithet, rather than a person's self-identification.

TLG: One word: religion. The "conservative" movement is a captive of the religious right. The supply-siders have made a unholy (pun intended) alliance with the Religious Right to get their upper income tax cuts and big business friendly environment.

Jase: Very astute. The bottom line is that it doesnt pay to be a populist. Our campaign finance system is broken to the point where most elections consist of a 2-headed corporate shill.

[OC]

Thomas Jefferson said about corporations:

I hope we shall take warning from the example of England and crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our Government to trial and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

And this from Abraham Lincoln, an admirer of Jefferson:

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country... corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.


Even way back in their own times, each knew the dangerous power that corporations held. I also think it's interesting that in the tax cut that just passed, the lowest income people - arguably the group that needs tax relief the most - are the ONLY group that DIDN'T get a tax cut. To me, this is a nutshell representaton of the GOP.

[plutarcho]

Originally posted by fakesurfers
Plutarcho: Do you have a link to Wahl? What I was specifically referring to was the use of the term 'liberal' as an epithet, rather than a person's self-identification.


No link, but the cite is:
Wahl, C. W. (1959). "The Relation between Primary and Secondary Identifications: Psychiatry and the Group Sciences," in Eugene Burdick and Arthur J. Rodbeck, American Voting Behaviour (Glencoe, Ill.,), p.263.

Yes, the term liberal has become an epithet. Liberal and conservative have symbolic meanings as do the terms Democrat, Republican, Religious Right, Government, Feminist etc. In the South, Republican had a very pejorative meaning until Realignment in the 1960's, despite the fact that many white Southerners' interests would have been better served by the Republican party. Likewise, today many women believe in feminist ideals (equal pay for equal work, child care issues, maternity leave, etc) but are are loathe to call themselves feminists because of what it has come to symbolize.

[plutarcho]

Originally posted by overclocked
I also think it's interesting that in the tax cut that just passed, the lowest income people - arguably the group that needs tax relief the most - are the ONLY group that DIDN'T get a tax cut. To me, this is a nutshell representaton of the GOP.

Check out the tax cut calculator at the Heritage Foundation. I know, it is a little right of center, but you do the math and tell me who doesn't benefit: http://www.heritage.org/taxcalculator/

[sbp]

You've never met a real liberal outside of a college town fakesurfers? You need to get out more often buddy. ;)
Just in the this area, the towns of Garrett Park and Takoma Park are hotbeds of liberalism. For example, both have declared themselves nuclear freeze zones. (http://www.igc.org/nuclearfree/nfz.html) Like thats going to help if the bomb goes off. :rolleyes:

Whenever you see the word liberal think of Ted Kennedy, Richard Gephardt, Martin Sheen, Barbara Streisand and Rosie O'Donnell. Poor, minority people indeed.


Originally posted by fakesurfers
The average Democratic party voter is way to the right of LBJ. Thats because LBJ was way to the left. It was during the mid 60's the Democratic party took a sharp turn to the left. A turn from which it has never recovered. :( Since that time the Democratic party no longer represents the working people. I know people who are registered Democratic but keep voting Republican in election after election. Why? Because the Democratic party no longer represents them on issues like reduced taxes and the 2nd amendment.

[plutarcho]

Originally posted by sbp

Originally posted by fakesurfers
The average Democratic party voter is way to the right of LBJ. Thats because LBJ was way to the left. It was during the mid 60's the Democratic party took a sharp turn to the left.

You will note too, that the Republican Party during that period (under Nixon) was much further to the Left than it was under Reagan. Nixon's healthcare proposal was much more agressive than Clinton's.

Read Kevin Phillip's Politics of the Rich and Poor and Boiling Point. He is a Republican who was extremely critical of Reagan's supply side policies. His arguments are very interesting and quite non-partisan.