Stick Shift Driving tips please.

[ArkiStan]

Hey people.
I'm planning to sell my car (auto transmission) at the end of the year, and with my next car, I'm finally gonna try to get in touch with my masculine side and go with stick shift. I know the basics and everything. I'm just not very good at it yet. Any tips or cautions to share?? These might be pretty obvious for most of you guys, but here's some things I know. Correct me if I'm wrong, and please add more that you know...

- don't slow down by down shifting
- stay in low gears for going up and down steep hills (correct?)
- down shift a little during fast turns
- I just learned how to peel out, too! :)


thanks

[hapoo]

definately dont slow down by downshifting!! that'll F up your gears.
Stay in low gears when going up but when going down just use the brake :)
you can downshift on fast turns although i dont recall ever doing so.

I've always driven a stick and I never really paid attention to most of this stuff. You kinda just get a feel for it after a while and you know when to do what. Just let the RPM's guide you.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by hapoo
Just let the RPM's guide you.

Yes Master! :D

[TheCorp]

Eric, one of the other guys who works at RealGN owns a nice pimpin A4. Unfortunately I am stuck with my Corrola, but he let me drive it once and I was trying to get the hang of stick. (for the record, I suck and stalled the thing god knows how many times ;-)

Anyways he told me that its ok to downshift to slow the car down, and is actually a good idea because it saves wear and tear on the brakes.

SO whats up with that? =)

[BADFlSH]

The key to the down shifting thing is, don't go from 5th to 1st to slow your self down ;). I think it is actually ok though as long as it doesn't put you in the red RPM wise.

[ArkiStan]

I actually heard it on an auto show on TV to never do it. Maybe they meant never go from 5th to 1st. I don't know... but wouldn't brake wear be much cheaper to fix than gear damage?

[hapoo]

Yes its way way cheaper to fix breaks than a transmition. I dont know the technical terminology for the parts so its hard to explain why its bad but lets just say you grind your clutch away.

[ArkiStan]

when and why do manual cars "stall?" what's the trick to avoid it?

[hapoo]

Originally posted by ucbstan
when and why do manual cars "stall?" what's the trick to avoid it?

They stall when the RPM's are too low. If you dont give the car enough gas when your easing off the clutch the engine doesn't have enough power to move the car so it stops.

[Apex]

While it's ok to slow yourself down by downshifting, generally if you do so, make sure you blip the throttle to match RPM's. That'll keep wear and tear down on your tranny. As ucbstan said, it's cheaper to replace brake pads than trannies.

Generally, the easiest way to match RPM's is to heel & toe. For instance, when stopping from 60, I usually hit the brakes with the big toe side of my right foot, and then hit the clutch with the left foot. Then, I roll the pinky toe side of the right foot over and rev the gas so that it jumps up about 2500rpm and then shift from 5th to 3rd. If you do it right, it slides right into 3rd with no resistance at all, since the RPM the engine is moving at the lower gear at that speed is matched. If you do this perfectly, you don't need to use the clutch at all. Unfortunately, I've been too lazy and have fallen out of practice with the no-clutch technique.

I also suggest heel & toe EVERYTIME you take a corner. This helps get your skills up to par.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by DarkFury

2) once you master starting from a dead stop on a steep incline... you have finally made it! BTW... on an incline, just keep a nice balance between the clutch and the gas (no need for brake) and once you feel forward momentum... give it some gas, let up off the clutch and go!


Thanks dude. Mastering the inclines is a must for me cause I spend a great amount of my time in down town San Francisco and boy do we have some mad inclines there (I could swear some of them are 45 degrees)! I even get scared in my auto tranny, but manage by using my parking brakes at red lights.

I'm just a little confused about your tip. Could you elaborate just a little? The main problem with starting on a hill is the split second where you take your foot of the brakes and go for the clutch right?? Let's say I've stopped at a red light in the middle of an upward steep hill. I've got my foot on the brakes and gears probably in NEUTRAL right? green light....what next??

hehe, sorry I'm very bad at this! ;)




[Edited by ucbstan on 07-01-2001 at 10:11 PM]

[ArkiStan]

JEEZ apex! Aren't those maneuvers used in racing or something?? :D I'll definitely give it a try, but first I gotta figure out how get up to speed without stalling!! hehe... :D

[hapoo]

your on a steep incline and red light goes to green... the traditional way is to ease off the clutch only too the point where it hasn't yet reached the "sweet spot" where your engine makes contact with the wheels while your foot is still on the brake, let go of the brake and give your car gas pressing down on the accelerator more and more as you ease completely off the clutch.

The whole thing is that you have to get a feel for when the clutch actually makes contact, and you have to know how much gas to give the car, too little and you stall too much and you peel out.

[speedracer120]

All I know is I'm doomed to drive an automatic transmission. My friend tried to teach me to drive stick and I peeled out every time I shifted gears. I had no trouble stalling, but I'm "cursed" with a lead foot.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by hapoo
your on a steep incline and red light goes to green... the traditional way is to ease off the clutch only too the point where it hasn't yet reached the "sweet spot" where your engine makes contact with the wheels while your foot is still on the brake, let go of the brake and give your car gas pressing down on the accelerator more and more as you ease completely off the clutch.


won't the car fall back during the moment when you take your foot off the brakes and onto the gas?? So you'd have to do it really quick, correct??

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by Apex
While it's ok to slow yourself down by downshifting, generally if you do so, make sure you blip the throttle to match RPM's. That'll keep wear and tear down on your tranny. As ucbstan said, it's cheaper to replace brake pads than trannies.


So what you're saying is that it's not good to downshift for the purpose of slowing the car down, but it's fine to downshift according to your slowing car??

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by speedracer120
All I know is I'm doomed to drive an automatic transmission. My friend tried to teach me to drive stick and I peeled out every time I shifted gears. I had no trouble stalling, but I'm "cursed" with a lead foot.

Yeah I'm pretty good at it too. :D

j/k...I know what you're saying.

[Apex]

Downshifting to slow yourself down is pretty widely debated. What it comes down to is there's relaly no concensus. There are experts on both camps. However, it is pretty agreed that it's not wise to downshift through all the gears while slowing down (ie. 5-4-3-2-1). At most, you'll want to do maybe 1 gear (ie. 5-3 or 5-4 or 5-2).

If you blip the throttle (to match revs), you'll put a lot less wear and tear on your tranny and also a lot less stress if you do decide to downshift to help slow yourself down.

I generally don't downshift to slow down (it's also called engine braking) unless I'm driving aggressively (track or place with no cars/pedestrians).

[Ice-9]

Yeah, I almost always use engine braking to slow myself down, because I've got a pretty tough transmission but some expensive brake pads. Still, I know what you mean about there being experts in both camps, Apex.

Oh, and stan, I don't think I'd recommend down-shifting during turns so much as down-shifting before the turn and then just holding it in whatever gear you're in. This is one of my biggest problems with automatics - they often upshift during a turn or on the exit, which means you can't go slow in, fast out like you should.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by Ice-9
Oh, and stan, I don't think I'd recommend down-shifting during turns so much as down-shifting before the turn and then just holding it in whatever gear you're in.

oh, that's what I meant. hehe. Actually I've gotten much practice with that at the arcade playing Daytona USA and F-1 type games. ;)

And DarkFury, you answered my question. My biggest concern on a hill was the moment you took your foot off the brakes and went for the gas. I thought the car would slide back. But you're saying there's a "friction point" which prevents the car sliding back on a hill even though you're not stepping on the brakes?? that explains it.

last thing...So you're already stepping on the clutch before you let off the brakes?

[ArkiStan]

Apex could you explain what "blipping" the throttle to "match revs" means?

[Nanotech9]

it means that in lower gears, your engine has to revv higher. So, before downshifting, you need to blip (or revv the engine just a little) wo that it'll shift smoothly and harmlessly inthe the lower gear.



Here's what NOT to do:
Takeoffs in 1st and slam the gass until it his the throttle limitter, then shift to second w/o letting up on the gas much. (makes for nice fast takeoff, and wears down MANY parts really fast)

Downshifting from 5th doing 75 to 3rd w/o "blipping" the throttle, and at the dame time breaking.

Sitting at a stoplight on a hill and rocking between gas and clutch, rocking the car back and forth about 6" to a foot. Why you ask? well, it burns the clutch, and it scares the hell outta the person behind you. But it might be a good way to practice takeoffs on a hill.

Don't use the hand break to swing the readr end around and slide into parking places perfectly straight :cool:

don't set the hand break ( on a front wheel drive) and rev up and pop the clutch... this has a bad effect on tires.

If RWD, don't gass it around corners and create an awesome looking and feeling controlled slide.

and if your on a motorcycle, don't slam on the rear break in the last 15 feet of the stop and slide your rearend out 45 degrees and then back right before the complete stop. Makes other ppl nervous, and FEELS soo COOL. (all the rice-racer boys stop and stare at that. - it looks like the bike is gonna just fall over, but it's perfectly balanced :) )

oh, other things not to learn...
never try shifting from 1st up and through 5th w/o using the clutch... ;) actually, thats where you really learn about "blipping the throttle", cause the RMPs have to be PERFECT to slip from one gear to the next, and even "MORE perfect" to downshif w/o the clutch... yep, I (and I'm sure others) can do it pretty well. It's a lot easier on the bike though (the tranny is more sycronized).

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by DarkFury

Originally Posted by ucbstan

And DarkFury, you answered my question. My biggest concern on a hill was the moment you took your foot off the brakes and went for the gas. I thought the car would slide back. But you're saying there's a "friction point" which prevents the car sliding back on a hill even though you're not stepping on the brakes?? that explains it.


By Jove...I think he's got it! :)

Halleluyah!! I think I'm gonna change my screenname to "BMWfilms" now.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
Sitting at a stoplight on a hill and rocking between gas and clutch, rocking the car back and forth about 6" to a foot. Why you ask? well, it burns the clutch, and it scares the hell outta the person behind you. But it might be a good way to practice takeoffs on a hill.
.
.
.
Don't use the hand break to swing the readr end around and slide into parking places perfectly straight :cool:
.
.
If RWD, don't gass it around corners and create an awesome looking and feeling controlled slide.
.
.
and if your on a motorcycle, don't slam on the rear break in the last 15 feet of the stop and slide your rearend out 45 degrees and then back right before the complete stop. Makes other ppl nervous, and FEELS soo COOL. (all the rice-racer boys stop and stare at that. - it looks like the bike is gonna just fall over, but it's perfectly balanced :) )



Hmmm....:naughty: lemme write this all down so I don't forget...:naughty:

[hapoo]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
If RWD, don't gass it around corners and create an awesome looking and feeling controlled slide.



ahhh
Camcorder + Sweet manual BMW 325i + empty parking lot + rain from the night before = One hellava time... not to mention a kickass video. :D

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by hapoo

Originally posted by Nanotech9
If RWD, don't gass it around corners and create an awesome looking and feeling controlled slide.



ahhh
Camcorder + Sweet manual BMW 325i + empty parking lot + rain from the night before = One hellava time... not to mention a kickass video. :D

Are you talkin about drifting? I know how to do that....in the arcade....Hey hapoo. let's see it. get the movie online.

[hapoo]

Originally posted by ucbstan

Are you talkin about drifting? I know how to do that....in the arcade....Hey hapoo. let's see it. get the movie online.


Actually the whole point was to get it on the computer... i gave the video to a friend to put on the comp cause he has good equipment but i haven't got it back yet. I have another video of me and my friend driving in the same parking lot except it was on dry land and in his old auto 325i. As soon as he got the manual we went out and made another video... a much better video :)
I'll let you guys know if i ever transfer it on the computer.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ucbstan

Originally posted by Apex
While it's ok to slow yourself down by downshifting, generally if you do so, make sure you blip the throttle to match RPM's. That'll keep wear and tear down on your tranny. As ucbstan said, it's cheaper to replace brake pads than trannies.


So what you're saying is that it's not good to downshift for the purpose of slowing the car down, but it's fine to downshift according to your slowing car??


I am pretty sure you don't downshift to slow down the car but however you do down shift while your car is slowing down. It helps in slowing down and also starting up again.. i heard that you don't downshift to first, that is unless you are good and can do it just when you stop. in auto trannys, some of them downshift also (such as Hondas) I personally have not driven a manuel but I particiate in car forums and downshifting is key to a good stop...

[Edited by CluelessSi on 07-03-2001 at 07:01 AM]

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by hapoo

Originally posted by ucbstan

Are you talkin about drifting? I know how to do that....in the arcade....Hey hapoo. let's see it. get the movie online.


Actually the whole point was to get it on the computer... i gave the video to a friend to put on the comp cause he has good equipment but i haven't got it back yet. I have another video of me and my friend driving in the same parking lot except it was on dry land and in his old auto 325i. As soon as he got the manual we went out and made another video... a much better video :)
I'll let you guys know if i ever transfer it on the computer.

video sounds fun =) i would like to see

We use to slid around in fresh snow. never got a chance to tape it though. prolly should cause we have access to the buildiung next to the lot sowe can have a nice top view. haha funny seeing ppl ski and sled using a car to tow them around in the snow =)

[Nanotech9]

actually, i downshift all the time instead of using the breakes... and i don't even have a tach in my car. Itas a little Geo prizm, and I downshift the hell out of it. I'll go to 2nd doing 50mph. This prettymuch pegs the RPM's, but thats just me - i push the little car sooo hard. I suprised it hasnt blwn up yet. (it's got 130k miles on it to, and it's only a 96)

I'm considering replacing teh worn out shocks (struts actually) and taking it to the local autocross event. I think I'm comfortable enough sliding that car around that i'll be able to do pretty good. well, at least only 15 secs behind everyone else :)

for a little 1.6 L manual with bad suspension, dirty injectors, and stock intake/exhaust, she's got pretty good pep. I wonder if I can overclock her... hummm :D

but yeah, if your a new-B with a stick, don't downshift into 1st until your almost stopped. (like under 5mph). most cars are really hard to shift into first when moving.

And, again, being a new-B, don't try to use the downshift to slow you down... you'll find yourself slamming on the brakes at the last second because you weren't fast enough on sdownshifting to get the car slowed down in the proper amount of time.

Hapoo... what format is that video? if it's VHS or DV, I can use my brothers equipment to get it on the computer, and maybe host it on my server, or my works server in a Divx compressed avi.

let me know.

[hapoo]

Originally posted by Nanotech9

Hapoo... what format is that video? if it's VHS or DV, I can use my brothers equipment to get it on the computer, and maybe host it on my server, or my works server in a Divx compressed avi.

let me know.


Its in Digital-8 :D
Honestly i doubt anyone would find it intresting although i might be wrong... its a pretty short video (like 2-3 min). But damn does that car look nice :D

[epoxi]

Originally posted by Nanotech9

Here's what NOT to do:

and if your on a motorcycle, don't slam on the rear break in the last 15 feet of the stop and slide your rearend out 45 degrees and then back right before the complete stop. Makes other ppl nervous, and FEELS soo COOL. (all the rice-racer boys stop and stare at that. - it looks like the bike is gonna just fall over, but it's perfectly balanced :) )


heh, stopies are fun, dangerous and nervewrecking when ordinary ppl see it, but it's nothing not to do =T

[Nanotech9]

well, stoppies are fun, but i was talking about something a little different. What i was trying to describe was sliding the rearend of the bike around sideways to the forward motion of the bike, and straightening out at the last second. Kinda like in "M.I. 2", but that was mostly fake.

gotta love the ducati (or was it a buell?) with the knobbies :rolleyes:

[epoxi]

ah my bad, i guess i was reading through the posts too quickly, i must have skipped the 'sliding' part , heh

[Burzhui]

Guys what is double clutching?

[Nanotech9]

uhh, you got me there.... i always thought it was what they did to shift older tractor-trailer rigs a little easier. (my dad drove one for about 2 years like 20 years ago and he used to do that, as well as shift the damn things without a clutch, because teh clutches are so hard to press down.)

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by Burzhui
Guys what is double clutching?


It's a move in basketball when during a lay-up you fake once to avoid defense and shoot again....right? :D

[Burzhui]

Hmmm no that's not it :(

[attgig]

The only person that I know that does this is a friend who does it only in the snow (NE) so that he doesn't have to worry about skidding on the ice. Normally, he says, it's not a good idea.

[Apex]

Double clutching is unnecessary for most modern cars. You hit the clutch once to pull the tranny out of gear, then once again to put it in the next gear.

[Grimm]

Probably the easiest way to learn how to drive a stick is intentionaly stall it a few times.
In am EMPTY parkinglot, sit with the car in neutral. Foot on the brake.
Depress the clutch pedal all the way. Place the car in first gear. Slowly let the clutch up untill you feel it start to grab go very slowly and get a good idea where you get more and more grab. This will let you understand where the range your clutch is engaging.
Only do this a couple of times, it's not really good for the transmition, but it is much better than not knowing and stalling several times.

When you drive it, now, release the brake and press the gas pedal at the same time you reach the spot on the clutch where it just starts to touch. The steeper the hill, the faster you will have to do this and the more gas you will have to give it.

I learned on a stick and changing to an automatic was dificult. I kept forgetting it was auto and kept trying to hit the clutch. Unfortuinately the wider break pedal was there. Brakes pedals are more sensative than clutches, did you know that, even more so at 40 miles an hour...

[Nanotech9]

downshifting in snow??!?!?!? oh loco. no wonder ppl have accidents. I can ONLY see doing that if the car is RWD, and he only downshifts slightly. If not, thats the easiest way to put the car into a spin.

[attgig]

the snow driver

had a beetle....not one of em new ones...those jammys from decades back with the engine in the trunk...

[Ice-9]

Originally posted by att gig
the snow driver

had a beetle....not one of em new ones...those jammys from decades back with the engine in the trunk...

There's nothing wrong with putting the engine in the trunk... right, pennypinch? :)

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
downshifting in snow??!?!?!? oh loco. no wonder ppl have accidents. I can ONLY see doing that if the car is RWD, and he only downshifts slightly. If not, thats the easiest way to put the car into a spin.

False, that's the age old method to prevent spinning

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Apex
Double clutching is unnecessary for most modern cars. You hit the clutch once to pull the tranny out of gear, then once again to put it in the next gear.
Damn it, now i am lost, i first heard this term in the fast and the furious... and i talked to a buddy of mine who took a performance driving course and he said that's when you clutch into second then slide into third and use the clutch again for the forth

[Apex]

http://www.driversedge.com/dblcltch.htm

[Nanotech9]

Originally posted by Burzhui

Originally posted by Nanotech9
downshifting in snow??!?!?!? oh loco. no wonder ppl have accidents. I can ONLY see doing that if the car is RWD, and he only downshifts slightly. If not, thats the easiest way to put the car into a spin.

False, that's the age old method to prevent spinning

ok, you get out there with a FWD car next time it snows and see how quickly the front end starts to slide :) ....

i've taken my car out in all kinds of weather and just meddes round with it... snow, rain, dry... using the rear brake to slide around, backing up until the front spins around, all kinds of stuff... best way to learn... level, empty parking lot. :D

[Burzhui]

Thanks Apex

[Burzhui]

One thing i don't get though, why would they need to downshift in the fast and the furious, you remember what the dude said about double clutching there?

[tophenhaw]

Originally posted by Burzhui
One thing i don't get though, why would they need to downshift in the fast and the furious, you remember what the dude said about double clutching there?

because it's a movie and they need to use spiffy terms.

[Ice-9]

Originally posted by Burzhui
One thing i don't get though, why would they need to downshift in the fast and the furious, you remember what the dude said about double clutching there?

Yeah, to second topenhaw's post, it's a movie. They included enough real stuff to not completely piss off the actual import tuners, but not enough for someone to learn about cars from it.

Anybody who may be interested in performance tuning, especially of imports, please don't get your "facts" and ideas from TFATF (there's that acronym again... :)).