Jewish? In your 20's? FREE trip to Israel!

[TheLoneGunman]

If you have never taken an organized trip to Israel and are curious about the land your ancestors are from and want to see some of the realities of that great country, you might be interested in the "Birthright" tours. They are completely free:

http://www.funtour.co.il/

There are a few other related programs (I now of one in the San Francisco area, for example) as well as those listed.

[dag16]

Oddly enough, most young people don't jump at this offer.
I know a few people who ahve done it and they have loved it.
do it if you can(although you might be best off waiting a little while)

[WhiskeyPapa]

Cool deal. I wish I was in my 20's. And I wish I lived in L.A.

Oh, and I wish I was Jewish...

A friend was telling me he wanted to send his mother to Israel before she died. An older couple overheard him and said that was one of the most caring, selfless things they ever heard and wanted to help him make that possible. They invited him over for dinner a week later... and gave him an MLM sales pitch!

[BrewMaster]

Can I go? My people are from Israel. I am 22. I live in LA. I would say it is my birthright.

[TheLoneGunman]

Originally posted by BrewMaster
Can I go? My people are from Israel. I am 22. I live in LA. I would say it is my birthright.

Follow the example of other "Palestinians" and simply hijack a plane there.

[BrewMaster]

I just applied, we'll see what they say. :thumbup:

[BrewMaster]

TLG you fu*kin racist Bastard! Why are you such a prick? I know other Jews who are very nice? What makes you such a racist dic*head? Do have no appreciation for other people, their culture and their feelings? It must suck to be you.

[jason_j_a]

I think someone struck a nerve... relax. Read enough of Gunmans posts and you'd know he was making a joke, he's a witty fellow.

By the way my g/f's roommate went on this trip this summer and had a good time.

[TheLoneGunman]

1. I am not "racist" as it seems you and I have similar heritage. therefore, I would be "self-hating" if I was as you described.

2. I am not a "Bastard" as my parents were married before, during and after my conception and pregnancy.

3. I know other "palestinians" who don't walk into restaurants or markets with bombs strapped to their chest, but so what?

4. I don't "appreciate" others inflicting terror on me, my family, or others. Why should I give them a second thought?

5. If you are from Israel, then how can you claim to be "Palestinian"? If you are not, then you have lied.

6. There was an explicit requirement that you be of the Jewish faith for this trip. If you applied, then you committed wire fraud. The Federal penalty is 5 years. Further, the attempt to defraud is an additional few years.

[dag16]

Originally posted by kb0wwp
Cool deal. I wish I was in my 20's. And I wish I lived in L.A.

Oh, and I wish I was Jewish...

A friend was telling me he wanted to send his mother to Israel before she died. An older couple overheard him and said that was one of the most caring, selfless things they ever heard and wanted to help him make that possible. They invited him over for dinner a week later... and gave him an MLM sales pitch!

sorry, what's an MLM sales pitch?

[Bukidog]

http://www.truthforpeace.org

and yes, I Agree TLG is not a racist and any Palestinians that wish to go to Israel should go! as far as I'm concerned you WILL learn to LIVE with ISRAELIS one way or another!! its too bad that that road is Violence ridden!

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman

Originally posted by BrewMaster
Can I go? My people are from Israel. I am 22. I live in LA. I would say it is my birthright.

Follow the example of other "Palestinians" and simply hijack a plane there.

Alright TLG
good one
:)

[Burzhui]

I went with a similar program, had a time of my life, i'd recomend this one cause i know of some people who went

[k28la]

Uh, sorry to interrupt, but who in their right mind would wanna even be in Israel right now, considering all the tension mounting... I was luck nuff to go when I was a teenager and it was fun, but it's just too crazy now...

[stupidzbu]

Originally posted by k28la
Uh, sorry to interrupt, but who in their right mind would wanna even be in Israel right now, considering all the tension mounting... I was luck nuff to go when I was a teenager and it was fun, but it's just too crazy now...

some people find it thrilling to go on vacation to an area plagued with terrorism, car bombs, suicide bombs, and constant gun fire...

must be the adrenaline rush of surviving or something like that...

not to mention the flight over there... you know.. possiblity of getting bombed, shot at with missles, or hijacked to send a message to others...

I personally find it offensive that you are required to be a jew to partake on this.... isn't that rascist to all non-jews??

*HINT* *HINT*
that was a joke....

[BrewMaster]

I applied and it asks if you're Jewish. I checked no. There's no crime in that. It's too bad you see all Palestinians as terrorists and buy into the stereotypes. You're missing out on a great culture and a great group of people. It's just ignorance (not knowing the truth). I hope you're having a good time and feeling really good about yourselves as you're trashing me and my people. It's really big of you....

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman

Originally posted by BrewMaster
Can I go? My people are from Israel. I am 22. I live in LA. I would say it is my birthright.

Follow the example of other "Palestinians" and simply hijack a plane there.

Or be like a real Israeli national and get the US government to pay for the whole shot, then have a bunch of people bitch and moan that they aren't paying for enough people to go.

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by pennypinch

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman

Originally posted by BrewMaster
Can I go? My people are from Israel. I am 22. I live in LA. I would say it is my birthright.

Follow the example of other "Palestinians" and simply hijack a plane there.

Or be like a real Israeli national and get the US government to pay for the whole shot, then have a bunch of people bitch and moan that they aren't paying for enough people to go.

That comment doesn't help the situation pennypinch.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Originally posted by dag16
sorry, what's an MLM sales pitch?

MLM = Multi-Level Marketing

Kind of like Amway or any of those other "companies" where you have to hit up every friend and relative to join.

I thought it was a pretty cold-hearted way to get a guy to come to a sales meeting. For a whole week he thought some rich old people were going to send his mom to Israel.

[Luxykin007]

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman

Originally posted by BrewMaster
Can I go? My people are from Israel. I am 22. I live in LA. I would say it is my birthright.

Follow the example of other "Palestinians" and simply hijack a plane there.


TLG, did anyone ever tell you when you were younger "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all?" I don't care what your rational for justifying (sp?) that remark was, it was rascist and uncalled for. pure and simple.

[TheLoneGunman]

Originally posted by Luxykin007

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman

Originally posted by BrewMaster
Can I go? My people are from Israel. I am 22. I live in LA. I would say it is my birthright.

Follow the example of other "Palestinians" and simply hijack a plane there.


TLG, did anyone ever tell you when you were younger "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all?" I don't care what your rational for justifying (sp?) that remark was, it was rascist and uncalled for. pure and simple.

What exactly is "nice" about being a victim of terrorism. I have been targeted several times by "palestinians" and luckily I was not injured. However, many American and others were not so lucky. (Remember a certain PanAm jet that was blown up?)

As far as being "racist" see all of my previous comments.

[stupidzbu]

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman

As far as being "racist" see all of my previous comments.


OR MINE!! since we are plugging in our beliefs... head on out to the off topic forums!

[Lumis]

TLG - I would call the settlements by the Isrealis a horrendous act of terrorism. Actually, if you agree with the settlements, I wonder how you feel about the problems in South Africa. But I guess terrorism is only when you are threatened not when you threaten others. Your "birthright" shouldn't allow you to persecute, murder, and rape a people from their land. I remember being taught how horrible the holocaust was. I just think that those who teach against violence shouldn't subject others to more horrific terror.

BTW - A rock and a rocket-launcher don't inflict equal pain

[blueberry muffin]

Fellow Apexers'...please stop this. Please agree to
disagree. This is a conflict that can not be easily solved and it makes no sense to agrue about it here. The original deal posted by TLG is really great. Imagine that...a free trip to Isreal. I myself would prefer a free trip to Tahiti! Please ...it hurts to see such hostility on this little corner of the web!

[GlassHopper]

Muffin ...

I formally second your motion!

Can we now call the question and vote on being more civilized. Life is hard enough as it is --- lets make it better, not worse!

[stupidzbu]

Originally posted by Lumis
I just think that those who teach against violence shouldn't subject others to more horrific terror.

BTW - A rock and a rocket-launcher don't inflict equal pain

You would be interested to read DAWN by Elie Wiesel.. it is a 90 page book.. that reads VERY fast...

it explains a holocaust survivor's transition from a victim to a palestinian freedom fighter (before teh english left and established israel)

it is a VERY good book....

and goes in depth as to WHY jews feel this need to resort to violent actions, even AFTER the holocaust....

plus you get a ver cool metamorphosis of the human mind into a killers mind... very good read

[BrewMaster]

I've read DAWN and it is a good book. I recommend it too. I also recommend Blood Brothers (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0800790960/qid=999149471/sr=8-3/102-6072605-7222521) by Elias Chacour. It's the story of a Palestinian man and his experiences from childhood to adulthood as Israel is established. He gives a moving example of life in the midst of conflict that we can all learn from.

-The Brew

[johnnymk]

It is amazing to me that Yassar Arafat and his fellow Arabs REAL mission is to annihilate Israel and to delete it from the World's map, not to promote harmony, as they pretend. But when Israel retaliates in even the slightest manner, they are made to look like the bad guys.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by stupidzbu


You would be interested to read DAWN by Elie Wiesel.. it is a 90 page book.. that reads VERY fast...

it explains a holocaust survivor's transition from a victim to a palestinian freedom fighter (before teh english left and established israel)

it is a VERY good book....

and goes in depth as to WHY jews feel this need to resort to violent actions, even AFTER the holocaust....

plus you get a ver cool metamorphosis of the human mind into a killers mind... very good read
What the hell do you mean EVEN After, the jews did not result to violence during, and are only answering to the violence which erupts arounds them

[stupidzbu]

Originally posted by Burzhui

What the hell do you mean EVEN After, the jews did not result to violence during, and are only answering to the violence which erupts arounds them

wow.. this new software is cool...

what I meant by EVEN after the holocaust.. is that logically, one would imagine that people persecuted through what, 5 or 6 years or maybe less, at a concentration camp... where they see violence enacted towards them...
where they are humiliated, tortured, killed off like flies.. with no regard to their humanity...

I personally would imagine that these people would be in utter disgust of voilence.. seeing what happened to them...
In the Sunflower, Simon Wiesenthal (sp?) says that many people lost their beliefs in god and thought he was on leave for the inhumanity that was going on to the jews..

Think of it as a VERY VERY VERY extreme case of a bully and a nerd... the nazi's bullied the jews around ... with the free will to kill them off...
In a situation like this, most nerds would refrain from using violence after their ordeal with a bully was terminated for good.. and very few resort to violence (ie bully others they find later on in life..or colombines)....

that was a major topic in one of my summer classes this summer... we discussed it for like 3 or 4 weeks at least....

[Kenas]

Originally posted by stupidzbu


wow.. this new software is cool...

what I meant by EVEN after the holocaust.. is that logically, one would imagine that people persecuted through what, 5 or 6 years or maybe less, at a concentration camp... where they see violence enacted towards them...
where they are humiliated, tortured, killed off like flies.. with no regard to their humanity...

I personally would imagine that these people would be in utter disgust of voilence.. seeing what happened to them...
In the Sunflower, Simon Wiesenthal (sp?) says that many people lost their beliefs in god and thought he was on leave for the inhumanity that was going on to the jews..

Think of it as a VERY VERY VERY extreme case of a bully and a nerd... the nazi's bullied the jews around ... with the free will to kill them off...
In a situation like this, most nerds would refrain from using violence after their ordeal with a bully was terminated for good.. and very few resort to violence (ie bully others they find later on in life..or colombines)....

that was a major topic in one of my summer classes this summer... we discussed it for like 3 or 4 weeks at least....



Yeah I love how this topic came from one forum into another, then i have to put my dollar and 2 cents here. STUPIDZBU how about if I tell you being in Holocaust teaches you to survive. IN the land (Israel that is) surrounded by number of Arabic countries (no alies) that hate you, you need to learn how to survive. Israel wants peace, but it is not in the Palestinian interest or especially Syrian (a.k.a Hizbolah) That is why the State of Israel became "so violente", all they are trying to do is to keep their citizen safe and alive. Their protecting their land the way that they see is the right way. Israel has years of experience on how to react to Arabs.

And as for that interesting book that BrewMaster mentioned, tomorrow i will start a production of my own book. I will call it "Through hell to hell" i will mention my trip to Jerusalem, and that I could easily be at that pizzeria on Jaffa and King George, because 2 days before I was there. Or I could tell them about my friends and familly that live there and have to go through this all the time. And about the victims of the terror.

Those who want peace with civilized country uses TONGUE, no GUN.
Lumis dude.... they don't throw rock anymore ... granades.

[Lumis]

I am not sure if I understand what the Israeli supporters are saying. Are you telling me that the settlements are okay? Are you saying that demolishing civilian Palestinian farmland and homes for settlements is okay? Because if that is okay, I'm sure you would agree that these people who have lived there for centuries would have the right to defend themselves. Maybe some grenades were thrown over the past few years (like 3-4) but the Israeli (read:US)tanks, helicopters, and militia are considerably more horrific. Remember that the number of casualties in Palestine are completely lopsided and that the Israelis don't fight a fair fight. Also, the Israelis ignite a reaction from the Palestinians whenever new settlements are put up - don't forget they are victimizing Palestinians, leaving them homeless and broken, whenever they demolish and destroy their homes. I suggest reading anything from Chomsky, a respected prof. from MIT, if you are really interested in this subject. His veiws seem to be a bit more level and objective...and he is Jewish.

[TheLoneGunman]

Uhm, I thought this was originally a deal.

How did it get so far off track?

[BrewMaster]

You gotta love the wide open world of forums...

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by Kenas

Israel wants peace...

Those who want peace with civilized country uses TONGUE, no GUN...


Israel is using guns my friend. Infact they are using Apache helicopters with auto-cannons and rockets and missles. Get your story straight man. From what you posted, Israel actually doesn't want peace.

I don't mean this as a slam, so don't take it that way, but Kenas you sound like an over-excited teenager. You need to chill, man.

[Eugene]

uh, yeah, this thread went pretty haywire. ANYWAY, my friend went w/this group to israel just this summer and he had a great time. he even said it was better b/c it was less crowded and stuff. and he also got to see the guns that some special forces guys had... kinda a counter-strike moment, i guess. so yeah, if ppl are still reading this thread, i'd say go for the trip, it's definitely worth ur money. :) and don't drink the red sea water!

[milksheikh]

Originally posted by Eugene
and he also got to see the guns that some special forces guys had...

Yeah, dude -- it's so cool! It's like free, and all, and if you're lucky, you'll get to see the totally rad guns that are used to kill people daily. Definitely go for it!

(Sorry for the sarcasm, but the gun reference wasn't particularly thoughtful given the above discussion)

[Jpeace121]

First, I would be stoked to take a trip to Israel. In fact, I really want to. But, seeing as I am about as big a WASP as there is, I don't qualify for this deal, which is a hot one if you qualify.

Secondly, I appreciate the opportunity the forum affords for everyone to put in their thoughts/opinions on the issue. However, I would like to point out that this conflict has been occuring between these two groups of people for thousands of years. And not to underestimate the power of this forum or the people that post here, but I don't think we're going to solve these problems here.

I guess my point is that the "marketplace of free ideas" that exists here is great, but we should make sure we don't get too carried away and let this get personal or nasty. That's all.

[Mat]

Oh great, some Palestinians in this forum!

Why none of you mentioned that the existence of the state of Israel was totally wrong? It was the best chance for Europe to get rid of the Jews by sending them to the Middle East!!

How come GOD chose this land for the Jews, but it was handed to them by the British and the united state governments?

What the Palestinians are doing is not an act of terrorism, basically they are trying to defend their lands, and it is similar to what the Americans did to free their country from the British!

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by Mat
Oh great, some Palestinians in this forum!

Why none of you mentioned that the existence of the state of Israel was totally wrong? It was the best chance for Europe to get rid of the Jews by sending them to the Middle East!!

How come GOD chose this land for the Jews, but it was handed to them by the British and the united state governments?

What the Palestinians are doing is not an act of terrorism, basically they are trying to defend their lands, and it is similar to what the Americans did to free their country from the British!

Simmer down Mat. Please don't re-ignite the madness that we had on the other thread (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29371). Let's try to keep this discussion a little bit more civil, can we?

One comment I do have to make is about the weapons you get to see on this trip. I have friends who went on similar trips and some of them spoke pretty somberly about the gun experience. They got to shoot M16's but they knew who the Israeli Defense Force was training to use those guns against. I don't mean to slam the trip or the participants because it is a great opportunity but just be aware that what some people find "cool" and a "counter-strike moment" sort of scare me because my family could be on the other end when those guns are put into real action. It's not that cool to me.

[BrewMaster]

So anyway, back to the deal that originaly started this thread, I got a confirmation email from the travel group that they will send further information when the dates are finalized and stuff. We'll see. I'll keep y'all

[stupidzbu]

Originally posted by Mat
How come GOD chose this land for the Jews, but it was handed to them by the British and the united state governments?


Kenas.. why are you yelling (i guess that is yelling.. my name is capped) at me? I was just informing you of what we discussed in my summer class...

we related all this to budhism (sp?) with reading Peace is Every Step... and like always.. came to the conclusion that violence isn't the way...

I'm armenian.. we were massacered in 1915 by the turks.. the US is the only nation as of 2001 that doesn't recognize the massacre...
We throw rocks at the turkish embassy every april 24 as a show of contempt...

BUT.. i have MANY turkish friends.. my grandfather was turkish.. and I am going to go to turkey soon.. turks love us.. and we love turks.. the people who live TODAY didn't kill my great grandparents.. it was THEIR great grandparents who did it...

I feel no need to go and fight against them...

If it werent for the USSR, we wouldn't have waged war against Azerbeijan in the early 1990's for that tiny piece of land.. which cost many lives...

SO.. there is a reason I quoted that saying from MAT... and some of you are going to flame me for this..
all I ask is that you keep an open mind... and remember that this is NOT my personal opinion...

I go to venice beach, CA a lot, cause I love it there.. One day there were these activists (liek always) who were passing around fliers and asking people to talk to them...

I did.. i'm always down to hear someone's opinion....

he handed me this flier that said that HITLER was the jewish messiah (sp?)
I asked him to explain..

he said that if it weren't for the Nazi forces, the jews wouldn't have migrated from western europe to the middle east... back to Zion.. because of the holocaust, the people that did escape were granted their Zion, and those that survived also got their Zion...

therefore, hitler was this messiah that was going to give the jews their holy land....

it is a fact that because of the nazi's many jews flocked to palestine... to save themselves....

if it weren't for the large population of jews in palestine at the tiem (before 1948) ... would the UK, US, & UN form the state of israel? who knows....

but it is an interesting twist....

i doubt i any jew would ever accept it.... but it is interesting ...

[stupidzbu]

Originally posted by Mat
it is similar to what the Americans did to free their country from the British!

yes.. but the majority of the rich and powerful americans LEFT america when the poor dumb people revolted against the british...

they never thought the americans would win.. and didn't want to bite the hand that fed them...

originally, and by MANY people, those americans that revolted were considered themselves terrorists and NOT the freedom fighters they are known as today...

it wasn't until a couple of major events that the general population got the trend of revolution....

it wasn't until I hit university poli sci classes that I realized that high school & elementary inform people of processed information used to make the US seem like the GOOD GUYS in all situations...
my professors all remark on it... and state that it is a big problem for people growing up.. because other ..more knowlegable students from other countries laugh at their ignorance of history..

Cuba is known to do the same in their classes.. they use examples of the US as bad guys ... so that the kids grow up thinking that the US is and always was their enemy...

it is a form of sublte mind washing....

[WhiskeyPapa]

Originally posted by stupidzbu
Cuba is known to do the same in their classes.. they use examples of the US as bad guys ... so that the kids grow up thinking that the US is and always was their enemy...

it is a form of sublte mind washing....

Most of you are probably too young to remember when Russia was our "Sworn Enemy". When I went to school in the 60's and 70's we were taught in no uncertain terms that Russia (more acurately, the Soviet Union) was BAD, absolutely EVIL! Around 1986 when things started to cool down, it was hard for people like me to accept. I remember the first time I saw a Russian made tractor at a farm show, it almost made me angry that we would do business with our "Sworn Enemy"! Heck, I think it was near the mid-90s before I really came to grips with it...

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by stupidzbu


if it weren't for the large population of jews in palestine at the time (before 1948) ... would the UK, US, & UN form the state of israel? who knows....


there wasn't really a large population of Jews in Palestine at this time compared to the number of Palestinians. Like i said before, the ratio was about 15-1. 600,000 Palestinians and 40,000 Jews.

[revil]

Originally posted by Lumis
BTW - A rock and a rocket-launcher don't inflict equal pain
Drop a rocket launcher on your left foot and an equally heavy rock on your right foot. I think it would hurt equally.

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by Reverend Evil

Drop a rocket launcher on your left foot and an equally heavy rock on your right foot. I think it would hurt equally.

You're right Reverend Evil, but unfortunatly the Israelis aren't dropping the rockets on our feet, they're shooting them from Apache helicopters. if that's not enough, the rockets, can you believe this, explode on arrival. Rocks, at least none that I've seen in the middle east, don't explode.

Just a side-thought for any other Palestinians, we should bring some of those kids to the USA to play baseball. They'll make Danny Almonte look like a chump because they've been training with ROCKS for all these years, not wussy baseballs (it's a joke, I love baseball). We could get some major sports figures on our side then (hmm...). Just a thought.

[YanksFanRy]

TheLoneGunman -

I know you and I have had little disagreements before but I appreciate your sacrifice on not letting jerks like BrewMaster get away with ignorant comments and rude bashing etc. I too am a Jew, and while I feel the violence in Israel is ridiculous, we are simply defending ourselves. I would love to visit Israel, and when I am appplicable for this deal I certainly shall apply. My cousin was supposed to go this summer while in college with a similar group, though she ended up cancelling because of the harsh situation in Israel. A friend of mine and her father are currently in Israel for a Bar Mitzvah. They are daring, but shall hopefully make it back safe and sound. TLG I commend you, and am now used to your hilarious humor. I apologize for any bad comments I have made in the past. YOU ROCK!

YanksFanRy

What you see is what you get. What you get is what you see.

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by YanksFanRy
TheLoneGunman -

I know you and I have had little disagreements before but I appreciate your sacrifice on not letting jerks like BrewMaster get away with ignorant comments and rude bashing etc.

You obviously haven't read this thread thoroughly. That's all I'll say.

[milksheikh]

Boy, this thread really is a good simulation of the Middle East situation...

[BrewMaster]

That's what we were noticing in the other thread ("show Restraint"...)

[YanksFanRy]

Originally posted by BrewMaster


You obviously haven't read this thread thoroughly. That's all I'll say.

Oh, BrewSlave, I read it all. Don't make assumptions, cuz yours are all wrong. And yes you are a rude pompous drunk. I assume the drunk part since ur name includes beer regards.

[BrewMaster]

Whatever. Of course you're right. BTW, do you have aything constructive to say or are you just feeding the trolls?