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Mat
09-04-2001, 01:20 AM
(Note: This is opinion and doesn't not necessary reflect the views of The Rave staff.)
Commentary By ABHINAV AIMA
Special to The Rave



On Oct. 2, I stood with teeth gnashing and fists clenched as I saw a picture of a 12-year-old Palestinian boy and his father, cowering for shelter in Gaza, trying to hide from the shots being fired by Israeli soldiers. A few moments later, bullets tore into the bodies of the young boy and his father, their last moments captured by the camera of a French TV photographer.

Most people in America went about business as usual that day, and probably did not lose much sleep over the incident that night. A few probably exclaimed, “That’s not right!” or “Oh, sweet Jesus!” and then went about their business and has a good night’s sleep. I, as usual, did not get a good night’s sleep, but I did stay awake and think about something British journalist, Robert Fisk, had told me last year in Beirut.

In 1996 Fisk had witnessed an Israeli pilot, flying an American helicopter, fire an American Hellfire missile into a Lebanese Ambulance and kill four children and two women. The next day, The New York Times report buried the incident in its sixth paragraph, and then spent two paragraphs trying to explain that the Israelis had fired on an ambulance carrying a Hizbollah “terrorist.” This was, of course, a lie as there was no Hizbollah guerrilla in the ambulance. This was also a war crime because the Geneva Convention specifically forbids the deliberate targeting of civilian targets, such as hospitals and ambulances, even if these facilities are believed to be harboring the enemy.

“If the things were the other way around,” Fisk asked me, “If, heaven forbid, four Israeli children and two Israeli women had been killed in the bombing of an ambulance, would the New York Times story have treated the story any different?” “Hell yes,” I replied, and immediately realized what I had just admitted. The American journalist who had filed the biased story was racist, the American editor who had allowed the biased story to run was racist – because they sure as hell would have done things differently if the women and children killed had been Jews.

So I wondered if, on Oct. 2, people would have reacted differently, actually given a ****, if the young boy and father, dying of bullet wounds in Gaza, had been Jews. Imagine if you will, a nice, young Jewish boy gasping his last breaths, eyes wide open in fear, dying on your TV screen.

Now, before all you hypocrites get your panties in a bunch and call me anti-Semite, allow me to tell you a bit about myself. I am a Kashmiri Hindu, and nearly all of my community loves and adores the Israeli army, all the more because they advise the Indian army on efficient methods of suppressing (killing) Islamic revolutionaries. Most people in my community don’t like Kashmiri Muslims (terrorists) who used American money and guns to conduct and ethnic cleansing of Kashmir in 1989-90 and drove almost all the Kashmiri Hindus out of the valley. Most of my community are bastard children of the Hindu-Nationalist ideology. I, unfortunately, am cursed with the twin gifts of education and empathy and can not giggle with glee every time I hear of a Muslim killed in Kashmir, just as I can not giggle with glee every time I hear of a Palestinian killed in Israel/West Bank/Gaza.

Many Americans, bastard children of the Capitalist-Democracy ideology, can not understand how the Palestinians could have become so upset over the visit of a Jew in their neighborhood? Did the Palestinians really need to start attacking those nice Jewish soldiers? What’s wrong with these damn Palestinians?
Many bastard children of bigoted ideologies around the world cringe is disgust every time they hear me address the Israeli soldiers as Jewish soldiers. Allow me to open your eyes, to the apartheid state that has existed in Israeli held territories for the last 50 years.
The Israeli army, to the best of my knowledge, does not have any non-Jewish officers. If you are not a Jew in Israel, and worse, if you are an Arab non-Jew, you have very little control over where you can work or live. Freedom of opportunity does not exist, even though Israel is a capitalist democracy. The non-Jewish Arabs (Palestinian Christians and Muslims), who come into Israel to work every day mostly work in menial jobs, even though they are qualified for better jobs, such as engineers or computer technicians.
In the Israeli apartheid, the non-Jews are discriminated against every day, though this discrimination has been toned down in order to address the present culture of political correctness. Arabs in Israel who have been granted Israeli citizenship can vote and even become elected members of the Israeli Parliament. But, as it has become clear in the last few days, while an Israeli soldier will not fire at Jewish women or children, he will fire at Arab women and children, even if they are Israeli citizens. He will also walk into areas of Palestinian authority and fire at Palestinians who are demonstrating in areas controlled by Palestinian authority where, as per commitments on the Oslo, Wye and recent Camp David agreements, Israeli soldiers are not even supposed to be present.
But the question here is not of what Israeli soldiers or Israeli Jews do.

The question is why Americans, and many other bastards of bigoted-ideologies, are happy to live in ignorance and refuse to give a hearing to the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people. Most apparent among these high profile bigots recently was journalist Christiane Amanpour who, after the failed round of U.S. brokered peace talks, asked Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak for his reaction to the Palestinian’s stubborn behavior, and grilled Palestinian President Yesser Arafat on his decision to turn down a generous Israeli offer. Clearly disturbed by this hypocritical line of questioning, Arafat took off his lapel mike and walked off the interview. Why had Amanpour behaved in this fashion, asking one party for their feelings and accusing the other of having none? Well, among other things, Amanpour recently married U.S. State Department employee James Rubin.

I know what it fells like to be persecuted for your race. I have seen the difference in the looks I get when I am a clean-shaven Hindu boy, and how soldiers train their guns when I grow a beard and fit a “terrorist” profile. I got the same looks from Israeli soldiers at the Lebanese border this year. Empathy – the ability to understand how it feels to be in someone else’s shoes. Ignorant bastards of bigoted philosophies have none.

So why did those damn Palestinians start chucking stones anyway? Because a Jew by the name of Ariel Sharon visited their neighborhood. You may not know who Sharon is, but the Palestinians can not forget him. He was the Israeli leader who laid a siege of Beirut and allowed a Christian militia, armed and funded by Israeli, to enter Palestinian camps and slaughter unarmed Palestinian men and women and children for two days.

In an editorial in the New York Times the day after the measure was revealed to the world, renowned columnist David Safire wrote:
“An immediate pullback from West Beirut is called for; some unilateral gesture of withdrawing a first contingent of troops back to Israel and waiting for the Syrians to match the move would be wise. Finally it might be seemly to offer to build housing for some newly displaced Palestinians as good as that of the Israeli settlers in the West Bank. The Lebanon operation, on the whole, was necessary and timely.” (William Safire, “All Hell Breaks Loose,” New York Times, Section A, page 15, column 2, Sept. 20, 1982.)
What the **** was he talking about? Build new housing?
How would Safire feel if I moved tanks into his neighborhood, laid a siege and sent in a militia to do to his family what the Elie Hobieka’s men did to the Palestinians? How would Safire feel if I stood with my army outside his house, declared a curfew for two days, while the militia raped his daughters, shot his sons in the back, took his pregnant wife and repeatedly stabbed her in the abdomen to kill both the baby and the mother? This is what Israel’s militia did to over 2000 Palestinians, while Ariel Sharon twiddled his thumbs for two days.

Would Mr. Safire, having so been robbed of his family, be happy if I built him a new house? Ignorant bastard child of bigoted philosophies!
The same ignorance and bigotry is available wholesale in the American. The most apparent of these currently is how all Palestinian Arabs in American media have magically become Muslim, whereas in reality about 40 percent of all Palestinians, including some rather dashing “terrorists,” are Christian.
Your tax dollars are buying the bullets, guns, tanks, attack helicopters and missiles that Israelis are using against unarmed Palestinians. Yet you do nothing because you don’t know and you don’t care. Those who yell out “peace talks” should think why Madeleine Albright and Ehud Barak are the only people smiling at these “peace” talks. The American government is an ally to the Israelis in their standoff against the Palestinians – the Israelis know this, so do the Palestinians. Why don’t you?
Ten years ago a group of Muslims came to my grandmother’s house in Srinagar, with American guns in their hands and American bombs strapped to their chest. They wanted to know why my people, the Kashmiri Hindus, had done nothing (collaborated) while the Indian government had crushed Muslims in Kashmir for 40 years.
Some day a Palestinian, Christian or Muslim, may come to your house, with or without a bomb, and want to know why you did nothing while your money supported the Israeli apartheid in Palestine. Think about what you will say to him, you ignorant bastards, and have a happy Halloween.

TheLoneGunman
09-04-2001, 02:10 AM
What are this (obvious biased) writer's qualifications?

Is it your article?

Is this anything but a personal opinion piece?

Do you think you will change much opinion when writing on an American board (to a mostly US audience) and you refer to Americans as "bastard children of the Capitalist-Democracy ideology"?

You (and the writer) should thank your lucky stars every day that you live in America and have the freedom to write such articles. If you were in most other countries, you would at the minimum be censored and possibly jailed (or just shot). The same goes for the writer being able to freely travel in Israel. Reporters covering US troops are routinely censored. Instead, this writer was able to write what he wanted and talk to whoever he wanted. Obviously no coverup there.

I would engage him in a battle of wits, but he is obviously unarmed.

psycho-
09-04-2001, 02:14 AM
Very interesting nonetheless to see something from another perspective.

I also need to drive up my post count...:D


Victor

Burzhui
09-04-2001, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by TheLoneGunman
What are this (obvious biased) writer's qualifications?

Is it your article?

Is this anything but a personal opinion piece?

Do you think you will change much opinion when writing on an American board (to a mostly US audience) and you refer to Americans as "bastard children of the Capitalist-Democracy ideology"?

You (and the writer) should thank your lucky stars every day that you live in America and have the freedom to write such articles. If you were in most other countries, you would at the minimum be censored and possibly jailed (or just shot). The same goes for the writer being able to freely travel in Israel. Reporters covering US troops are routinely censored. Instead, this writer was able to write what he wanted and talk to whoever he wanted. Obviously no coverup there.

I would engage him in a battle of wits, but he is obviously unarmed.

I agree with TLG, obviously this is definatelly a biased article and is nothing but an oppinion, how can this writer state that there were no terosrists in that ambulance?
New York times is actually very biased and is not a good source on the crisis in the middle east... there were several incidents where they wrote several articles and posted several picture where apparently the palestinians were getting harmed or killed for no reason, however promptly Israel sent the same exact pictures from different angles showing exactly the opposite.... and the NYT had to appologize for the "innocent mistake on their part", which was obviously not that innocent and was on page 48 somewhere in the left corner of the page in small print where obviously no one could ever see it

attgig
09-04-2001, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by TheLoneGunman
What are this (obvious biased) writer's qualifications?


all of media is biased...please...this is just another article that's not a part of some NY/LA/Washington times/post, etc...
all of those people are biased (liberally biased media...always hear about it in politics, and most academics would agree).

take any article that you read with a grain of salt...

Grimm
09-04-2001, 09:53 AM
I am a racist and a bastard for just living in the US?!?
Check again bozo. I think that generalization exposes you pretty well for exactly what you are. A case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Mat, I just think you are anti-Israel, despite your claims to the contrary. You present an opinion piece as fact and offer no collaboration to the claims made there in. I can respect Brewmaster's opinions even if I do not agree with them because he presents them in an open manner as he believes them. You try to hide your motive by declaring yourself as neutral and then spouting off retoric from the PLO.
I feel sorry for all the Palastinians and Israelies caught up in this mess. The people who don't want to hurt anyone are the ones getting hurt. Israel can't just let it's citizens be killed off wholesale. The only people who can stop this mess are the Palastinians themselves. They have to reign in the nuts who are blowing things up. They need to start ignoring the egging from their arab neighbors who are laughing because they get to see Jews killed by Palastinians who they wouldn't give the time of day to if they weren't killing Jews.

TheLoneGunman
09-04-2001, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by evilcyclops

I feel sorry for all the Palastinians and Israelies caught up in this mess. The people who don't want to hurt anyone are the ones getting hurt. Israel can't just let it's citizens be killed off wholesale. The only people who can stop this mess are the Palastinians themselves. They have to reign in the nuts who are blowing things up. They need to start ignoring the egging from their arab neighbors who are laughing because they get to see Jews killed by Palastinians who they wouldn't give the time of day to if they weren't killing Jews.

Well stated. Thank you for adding another voice of reason.

pennypinch
09-04-2001, 10:20 AM
Am I the only one who notices that this thing looks like a cut and paste job?

Burzhui
09-04-2001, 10:21 AM
can you please tell me why, if Arafat is soo against terorists, he doesn't arrest this man, instead of shaking hands with him?

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20010827/capt.998939871mideast_israel_palestinians_gaz109.jpg

just so you know this is the founder and leader of Hamas

pennypinch
09-04-2001, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Burzhui
can you please tell me why, if Arafat is soo against terorists, he doesn't arrest this man, instead of shaking hands with him?

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20010827/capt.998939871mideast_israel_palestinians_gaz109.jpg

just so you know this is the founder and leader of Humas

What's wrong with Humas? It tastes good on pita.

Then again, if you mean he's the founder of the Hamas, then that's a pretty bad guy.

Burzhui
09-04-2001, 12:13 PM
Weird i actually cnaged that post after seeing that it said humas... but then i guess it didn't save or something in any case you eat Humus:munch: so there, and now it is changed and he is the leader of hamas

Kenas
09-04-2001, 12:13 PM
http://aish.com/Israel/graphics/tuvia.jpg
Funny thing talking about bias press, this picture appeard in NY Times. The reality is:

On September 30, 2000, The New York Times, Associated Press and other major media outlets published a photo of a young man -- bloodied and battered -- crouching beneath a club-wielding Israeli policeman. The caption identified him as a Palestinian victim of the recent riots -- with the clear implication that the Israeli soldier is the one who beat him.

The victim's true identity was revealed when Dr. Aaron Grossman of Chicago sent the following letter to the Times:

Regarding your picture on page A5 of the Israeli soldier and the Palestinian on the Temple Mount -- that Palestinian is actually my son, Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish student from Chicago. He, and two of his friends, were pulled from their taxicab while traveling in Jerusalem, by a mob of Palestinian Arabs, and were severely beaten and stabbed.

That picture could not have been taken on the Temple Mount because there are no gas stations on the Temple Mount and certainly none with Hebrew lettering, like the one clearly seen behind the Israeli soldier attempting to protect my son from the mob

Burzhui
09-04-2001, 12:16 PM
Kenas this is exactly what i was talking about in this thread, a couple of posts earlier though so if you scroll up you can see it, i spent forever looking for that pic, so thanks

fakesurfers
09-04-2001, 01:26 PM
From what I've read, no one in this conflict has anything to be proud about. The Israeli army does things that would get any other army put in front of a tribunal. The Palestinians have given up all pretense of fighting honorably, and now try to kill soft targets (i.e. civilian women and children). That's probably why so few people in America give a rat's posterior about what goes on over there. They've been fighting for about 3000 years, right? I think we should just ignore it and it will go away. Stop selling Israel weapons. Keep ignoring the Palestinians. When nobody pays attention to them, maybe they'll all grow up a little bit.:bawl: :bawl: :bawl:

Burzhui
09-04-2001, 01:33 PM
nah unfortunately it doesn't work like that

topane
09-04-2001, 01:44 PM
I have a feeling it's never going to go away until one destroys the other... :disa:

pennypinch
09-04-2001, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Burzhui
nah unfortunately it doesn't work like that
And why doesn't it work like that? Explain.

We keep funding this war. It gives the Palestinians the implicit moral high ground; America loves the underdog. Meanwhile, the Isrealis are obviously not interested in taking any first steps towards peace.

I'm with fake. Normally, I'm all for political interventions, but these two seem bent on each others destruction, and frankly aren't interested in getting along with one another. I say, let 'em all rot, and let the law of the jungle prevail. If they're going to act like beasts towards one another, treat them as beasts.

Burzhui
09-04-2001, 07:22 PM
wow wow wow there,
as soon as the arabs stop these attacks Israel stops, as soon as the attacks resume, Israel resumes to defend it's peoples... how hard is it to understand?

I think they are right for what they are doing you said they don't take the first step what are they supposed to say, ok here kill our children we will turn our backs on it.... i think not my dear