Conspiracy Theory

[coleslaw]

What if the real people behind the events of September 11, 2001 are merely trying to make it seem that Osama bin Laden is behind it all? If the hijackers were intelligent at all, why would they leave Arabic flight manuals sitting in their car? They could have given themselves aliases when getting airline tickets. They could have even dressed to appear as someone they were not. They could have left clues to throw investigators in the wrong direction - all pointing to bin Laden.

However, what groups would benefit from the elimination of Osama bin Laden, yet benefit from a major attack on the US? I can't think of any right now, other than a group rivaling bin Laden's.

[attgig]

Bin Ladin is the leader of the Islamic world...
keep that noggin churnin cause it'll have to be some way off group..

[Hiro]

Originally posted by att gig
Bin Ladin is the leader of the Islamic world...
keep that noggin churnin cause it'll have to be some way off group..

I would definitely agree with this. Its a good idea, that it could possibly be a conspiracy...but honestly, its highly unlikely.

[attgig]

well, they were just talking about somethin along this line in CBS with there former CIA correspondent..
he's unconvinced that it's bin laden as well...
got to the channel in the middle of the interview, but he's saying he doesn't think it's him...
it's someone else...the trails that they left behind and all that may have been diversions, and Bin Laden is their BEST diversion.

and if it is Bin Laden, US has to get a coalition involving Egypt and other middle eastern countries to get a successful coalition going.

[sho.gun]

Hmm I was actually thinking about this since yesterday. Although it's highly unlikely, what if Israel is behind all this? They just make it look like Bin Laden did it hoping that the US will just say "enough!" and start bombing Israel's enemies. For them they are getting their wars fought for free and the US will be doing most of the work. As I said it's highly unlikely, but hey it's a theory.

[eSDee]

Originally posted by coleslaw
What if the real people behind the events of September 11, 2001 are merely trying to make it seem that Osama bin Laden is behind it all? If the hijackers were intelligent at all, why would they leave Arabic flight manuals sitting in their car? They could have given themselves aliases when getting airline tickets. They could have even dressed to appear as someone they were not. They could have left clues to throw investigators in the wrong direction - all pointing to bin Laden.


I agree with you slaw ol buddy. It sounded kinda hokey when I first heard this, almost like it was planted. But if the terrorists were Saudi nationals then I wouldn't have the first clue who would be in opposition to Bin Laden, let alone have the dough to fund such an operation.

[coleslaw]

Do you really think that flight training is really necessary to fly a plane? Take off and landings are by far the most difficult part. I have played my share of fligh simulators and I hear that they are fairly accurate in terms of consoles and realism. $40 for a flight sim game... I think anyone can afford that. Maybe the people really behind this discovered that some people associated with bin Laden had flight training, so they used that to their advantage to cover their bases.

But then again, I am talking out of my arse, but I just can't keep my mind off of this whole ordeal.

[TheLoneGunman]

Originally posted by coleslaw
What if the real people behind the events of September 11, 2001 are merely trying to make it seem that Osama bin Laden is behind it all? If the hijackers were intelligent at all, why would they leave Arabic flight manuals sitting in their car? They could have given themselves aliases when getting airline tickets. They could have even dressed to appear as someone they were not. They could have left clues to throw investigators in the wrong direction - all pointing to bin Laden.

On NBC they have been showing a variety of people who had direct contact with the hijackers over a period of the past few months. It was clear who they were.

Also, they were suicide bombers. Why bother to disguise their identities?

It wasn't like it was a planted bomb, like at Lockerbie, where the terrorists tried to blame it on someone else.

[attgig]

Originally posted by coleslaw
Do you really think that flight training is really necessary to fly a plane? Take off and landings are by far the most difficult part. I have played my share of fligh simulators and I hear that they are fairly accurate in terms of consoles and realism. $40 for a flight sim game... I think anyone can afford that.
<snip>



I would think to really get the WTC right where they want it, they would've used the planes computers instead of going free hand...
watching how that second plane turned around...i think they had to set coordinates and the computer was what turned it around like that..
just my thought....

[sbp]

Originally posted by att gig
Bin Ladin is the leader of the Islamic world...Not even close!

-----

Sometimes things are what they seem. Conspiracy smearacy.

[hapoo]

Originally posted by att gig
Bin Ladin is the leader of the Islamic world...



:banghead: :disa:
I'm sorry you think that. You just insulted every member of one of the worlds fastest growing religions. I am Islamic, my family is Islamic, most of the people in my country are Islamic, and yet I do not know ONE person who agrees or condones Bin Ladin's actions. Please take a moment and think of what your posting before you hit the "submit" button. Most people in my shoes reading the things i have in this forum the past couple weeks would be very offended of all the badmouthing my religion has recieved, but i also know that most people on this board arn't familiar with my culture or religion and sometimes some let their ignorance get the better of them. I also want to thank others on the board who are inteligent enough to keep an open mind and understand that not every <insert race, sex, ethnicity, etc> different from them is evil.

[mojo]

isnt the islamic leader minister louis farrakhan?

i believe bin laden leads al qaeda

[sbp]

Originally posted by mojorisin
isnt the islamic leader minister louis farrakhan?Hell no!


i believe bin laden leads al qaeda Yes bin Laden leads that organization.

[TheLoneGunman]

All about the soon to be deceased Mr. Bin Laden:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/binladen/binladen.shtml

[mojo]

about the al qaeda http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm

my bad on the islam thing with farrakhan. he leads the "nation of islam." sorry, i am not thinking straight today.

[attgig]

now it's getting a bit weird..
"Federal authorities told CNN today that a Saudi man was cooperating with them in the investigation of Tuesday's terror attacks. "
from the front page of cnn.com

what the???
they never cooperate..

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by coleslaw
What if the real people behind the events of September 11, 2001 are merely trying to make it seem that Osama bin Laden is behind it all? If the hijackers were intelligent at all, why would they leave Arabic flight manuals sitting in their car? They could have given themselves aliases when getting airline tickets. They could have even dressed to appear as someone they were not. They could have left clues to throw investigators in the wrong direction - all pointing to bin Laden.

However, what groups would benefit from the elimination of Osama bin Laden, yet benefit from a major attack on the US? I can't think of any right now, other than a group rivaling bin Laden's.

Ahh dude, the tickets were bought with Visa cards who belonged to Muhamad Al Bin, and other names of that type... so good try but no...

[Markel]

Originally posted by hapoo

:banghead: :disa:
I'm sorry you think that. You just insulted every member of one of the worlds fastest growing religions. I am Islamic, my family is Islamic, most of the people in my country are Islamic, and yet I do not know ONE person who agrees or condones Bin Ladin's actions. Please take a moment and think of what your posting before you hit the "submit" button. Most people in my shoes reading the things i have in this forum the past couple weeks would be very offended of all the badmouthing my religion has recieved, but i also know that most people on this board arn't familiar with my culture or religion and sometimes some let their ignorance get the better of them. I also want to thank others on the board who are inteligent enough to keep an open mind and understand that not every <insert race, sex, ethnicity, etc> different from them is evil.
Hapoo,

As I am one who often cringes when I see the word "Christian" that gets associated with things that are as far removed from Christianity as they can get, I can understand completely what you are expressing.

[coleslaw]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Ahh dude, the tickets were bought with Visa cards who belonged to Muhamad Al Bin, and other names of that type... so good try but no...

Killed for their credit cards... :hmm:

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman
All about the soon to be deceased Mr. Bin Laden:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/binladen/binladen.shtml

I just read the whole thing.... wow i don't even know how to react here

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by coleslaw


Killed for their credit cards... :hmm:

Nope nobody reported the cards stolen and the address on the card leads to that shipping place, well one of the PO boxes there, Boxes etc i think

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by coleslaw


Killed for their credit cards... :hmm:

wouldn't even really have to kill em; identity fraud is so easy...

it does seem that the perps were actual middle easterners, based on interviews with those who knew them during their stay in the US, but i guess they coulda had fake names, said they were from ****y x when they were really from country y (like white americans would know the difference...), etc... and if they did have fake identities, it could have been to protect their families and organization after the fact.

or they coulda just not given a hoot since they were dying anyway, and so left a sloppy trail of clues just for the heck of it.

we'll see...

[Jacob Marley]

I would definitely believe that this is a conspiracy to blame the Middle Eastern nations. You say that the tickets purchased were bought using a Arabic's credit card. Wasn't it but a few months back that a cook at a resturant was using credit card numbers he stole from celebrities? Come on, that's barely an arguement to say that the credit cards weren't faked. Then, let's look at the evidence found in the car. A picture of one of the supposed hijackers? I'm no hijacker, but I don't think I would be carrying a picture of myself around! They claim the sound bites from the planes have heavy Arabic accents, well clearly they much be from the Middle East, cause an American or other nationality couldn't fake that? I think the news is pushing the FBI, CIA and the government into making these supposed "discoveries" and arrests. Much like Pres Bush is going to be pushed into making a decision due to public outcry. They believed that the OK City bombing was Arabic terrorists, woops! Let's not be so quick to pass judgement. Once we have "real" facts, then we pass judgement.

[fakesurfers]

Your conspiracy theory is what I've been thinking about too...

One possibility is the Colombian drug lords...they have the money and the will, but they havent used suicide bombers yet.

More likely is that the real trail leads to a country besides Afghanistan... what if one of the countries that pretends to be our ally is behind this? Are we prepared to take out Saudi Arabia? Egypt?

I also give some credence to the Israel argument. This terrorist attack seems counter-productive to a group that wants us to abandon Israel.. if anything it will bring us closer.

What sucks is that we'll never know the real story..

[welfareloser]

and "cooperation" at this point just means he is running his mouth a mile a minute, probly... it'll be a few days before we know if he's telling the truth or not...

[coleslaw]

Snippage from a CNN article:


Adnan Bukhari, who had attended pilot training school in Vero Beach Florida, was talking to FBI agents, sources said. A furniture salesman said he had seen Bukhari after the terrorist crashes, and he contacted authorities.

Bukhari's brother, Ameer Bukhari, died in a small plane crash in Florida last year, according to a lawyer for the family.

Federal sources had initially identified the brothers as possible hijackers who had boarded one of the planes that originated in Maine. But Bukhari's attorney said it appeared their identifications were stolen and said Bukhari had no role in the hijackings.

:hmm:

Oh, and why wouldn't you kill them to be able to take on their identity? What good is it to claim to be someone else, only to have them show up elsewhere?

[pennypinch]

The idea began to hit when they were rifling the house in Florida. I'm sorry, but the picture found of the supposed hijacker looked ludicrous: him walking across the street in a jacket with sunglasses on, not even looking at the camera? It looked WAY more like a surviellance photo than something you'd keep around the house!

I'm usually not one to hop on conspiracy theories, but something is rotton in the state of Denmark. Frankly, the only party I can think of that would profit from such a disaster is Isreal. Frankly, I have difficulty believeing the Mossad would do such a horrendously uncredible job of faking this, but this looks pretty ridiculous to me.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by coleslaw
Snippage from a CNN article:



:hmm:

Oh, and why wouldn't you kill them to be able to take on their identity? What good is it to claim to be someone else, only to have them show up elsewhere?

you probly would, especially in this case. just making the point that identity fraud is so easy, you wouldn't even have to kill 'em.

[fakesurfers]

Originally posted by hapoo



:banghead: :disa:
a lot of relevant stuff

Hear! Hear! Would you want poeple thinking that all Christians are like David Koresh? Keep in mind that for most of Islam, suicide will not get you into heaven. These guys are extremists, just like the people that blow up doctors...

[pennypinch]

Werd to that. I think if any good is to come from this, it will be (hopefully) some sort of education of the American people of relgions other than Judaism and Christianity. For too long, we've dismissed Muslims as religious "freaks" or "nutjobs", while quietly accepting the disparate branches of Christianity.

I can forsee this happening again and again unless we comprehend what the ostensible rationale behind this was, or why other countries hate us so. Remember we trained bin Laden against the Soviets. We fester unrest in South America and Africa. Another subsequent attack cannot be a surprise unless we CHOOSE to remain ignorant.

[TheLoneGunman]

Originally posted by pennypinch
I'm usually not one to hop on conspiracy theories, but something is rotton in the state of Denmark. Frankly, the only party I can think of that would profit from such a disaster is Isreal. Frankly, I have difficulty believeing the Mossad would do such a horrendously uncredible job of faking this, but this looks pretty ridiculous to me.

1. There were several ISRAELI companies in the WTC (however there were no offices belonging to Bin Laden)

2. A major Israeli CEO was killed on one of the planes (the founder of Akamai)

3. Isreal would "profit" only if they used this tragedy to their advantage, but yet they have shown INCREDIBLE restraint. (Had the pro-terrorist demonstrations been was explicit here, the demonstrators would have been torn limb from limb)

4. Accums Razor -- The simplest, most logical explanation is usually the correct one.

[Markel]

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman
4. Accums Razor -- The simplest, most logical explanation is usually the correct one.
Just for the record, it's "Occam's Razor". (Might help if anyone is doing a Google search to see what you are talking about.)

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Markel

Just for the record, it's "Occam's Razor". (Might help if anyone is doing a Google search to see what you are talking about.)

or achem's razor. it's a name from a different language that uses a different alphabet, so there is no standard spelling in this alphabet...

[sbp]

bin Laden hates America because America has troops in Saudi Arabia.

The Taliban started off as a student militia backed by Pakistan. The Taliban promised relief for a war weary populace and to take back the country from warlords squabbling amongst themselves who betrayed the hard won victory against the Soviet Union. Some Mujaheddin responded to this appeal and joined with the Taliban. But who were the Taliban fighting against? Other former Mujaheddin.

Iran is not fond at all of the Taliban.
Taliban soldiers killed Iranian diplomats. Now Tehran wants revenge (http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/98/1002/nat7.html)
Funerals fuel Iran's rage at Taliban (http://www.guardian.co.uk/World_Report/Story/0,2867,324799,00.html)

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/ba2000-08-09.htm

People think of Islam as one monolith religion. Its not. It has different branches (http://www.adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Islam) also.

[fakesurfers]

Originally posted by TheLoneGunman



3. Isreal would "profit" only if they used this tragedy to their advantage, but yet they have shown INCREDIBLE restraint. (Had the pro-terrorist demonstrations been was explicit here, the demonstrators would have been torn limb from limb)



They already are. They're saying we need to pool all of our intelligence with them. Just wait until they send out their 'wish list' of military hardware.

[coleslaw]

My theory is seeming more and more plausible as more evidence is found... :hmm:

[ironchef]

stirring up more sheeeite..

http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intel/boom_bust_echo/index.html

very interesting read. i'm getting to the point where i don't know who the hell to trust. though CIA spooks are certainly farther out there than anybody else.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by ironchef
stirring up more sheeeite..

http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intel/boom_bust_echo/index.html

very interesting read. i'm getting to the point where i don't know who the hell to trust. though CIA spooks are certainly farther out there than anybody else.

pretty well-reasoned... not the kind of conspiracy theory where you can automatically say "whoa whatta crackpot..."

[attgig]

guerrilla news...
I'm still all gung ho against coke because of their article about that..

http://www.guerrillanews.com/cocakarma/