Falwell.........disgusting

[Jpeace121]

From the New York Times, September 14, 2001:

FINDING FAULT
U.S. 'Secular' Groups Set Tone for Terror Attacks, Falwell Say
By GUSTAV NIEBUHR

The Rev. Jerry Falwell said yesterday that the American Civil Liberties Union, with abortion providers, gay rights proponents and federal courts that had banned school prayer and legalized abortion, had so weakened the United States spiritually that the nation was left exposed to Tuesday's terrorist attacks.

Mr. Falwell, a Baptist minister who is chancellor of Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., said that "the A.C.L.U.'s got to take a lot of blame for this," according to a partial transcript of remarks he made on "The 700 Club," Pat Robertson's religious program.

In the transcript, distributed by the liberal organization People for the American Way, Mr. Falwell described the A.C.L.U. as "throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools." Referring to the attacks, he said he would point a figurative finger at those "who have tried to secularize America" and say, "You helped this happen."

According to the transcript, Mr. Robertson said, "I totally concur."

Asked about his remarks in an interview last night, Mr. Falwell said he was making a theological statement about how various groups had so offended God that the attacks could occur. He said he did not intend to shift blame from the terrorists. "I sincerely believe that the collective efforts of many secularists during the past generation, resulting in the expulsion from our schools and from the public square, has left us vulnerable," he said.

He said he did not believe God "had anything to do with the tragedy," but that God had permitted it. "He lifted the curtain of protection," Mr. Falwell said, "and I believe that if America does not repent and return to a genuine faith and dependence on him, we may expect more tragedies, unfortunately."

On "The 700 Club," Mr. Falwell also said that liberal groups were "totally disregarded by the Democrats and Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out to God in prayer and sang `God Bless America' and said, `Let the A.C.L.U. be hanged.' "

Asked to comment on what Mr. Falwell said, a spokesman for the civil liberties union said, "We are not are not dignifying it with a response." In a statement, People for the American Way did not address Mr. Falwell's remarks, but said it grieved for the victims.

Bill Leonard, dean of Wake Forest Divinity School, said Mr. Falwell's remarks were "a mistaken effort to sound prophetic." "God created the world with terrible freedom, and part of that freedom," Mr. Leonard said, is the freedom humans have "to do terrible evil."

Look folks, I'm a Christian. I believe in God. At noon today, I will be in prayer for the tragedy and loss of our nation. And I'm not ashamed of being a Christian either. However, what I am ashamed of, is when one person, calling themselves a Christian, says something that is so insensitive, evil, bigoted, ignorant, hate-mongering, and irresponsible as this. I swear, if you put Falwell in front of me right now, I'd knock him out. For him to use this tragedy to promote his personal social beliefs is such an utter abuse of his position and stature that it is revolting and obscene.

I guess what I want to say is that Falwell is not the voice of Christianity. There are many Christians who do not feel this way.

[topane]

What a farking moron. He is revolting and obscene. Whether or not prayer is allowed in schools has nothing to do with this. RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Now I want to kill Bin Laden and Falwell.

[johnnymk]

Bigoted, ignorant and hate mongering? Well, then as a Christain, what EXACTLY do you stand for? Probably nothing!

[topane]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Bigoted, ignorant and hate mongering? Well, then as a Christain, what EXACTLY do you stand for? Probably nothing! Love and tolerance

[Jpeace121]

Regardless of what I stand for as a Christian, I think my point is that NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO DO THIS.

The last thing we need right now is more schism and division, which is exactly what Falwell's words will create. If ever, now is when we need to come together as a country.

Love and tolerance. Exactly topane. Which, incidentally, are the foundations of the Gospels and Christ's ministry.

[ironchef]

Originally posted by Jpeace121
I guess what I want to say is that Falwell is not the voice of Christianity. There are many Christians who do not feel this way.
Food for thought for those damning an entire non-christian religion.

And Falwell be damned for spewing that trash.


Originally posted by johnnymk
Bigoted, ignorant and hate mongering?
That's pretty much what it sounds like to me. The jackass is pointing fingers, not at the perpetrators, but at people who oppose his fanatical beliefs. I think your phrase there describes it to the T.


Originally posted by johnnymk
Well, then as a Christain, what EXACTLY do you stand for? Probably nothing!
What are you saying, Johnny? That "bigotry, ignorance, and hate mongering" are what a Christian is supposed to stand for?

[johnnymk]

Love, yes.... Tolerance... to what? Every viewpoint, every devious practice? Show me the Scripture and Verse in the Bible where God permits everything. I have said it before and I will say it again: People who believe in everything believe in nothing.
If you truly believe in tolerance, then Bid Laden is an OK kind of guy.
Love the sinner but hate the sin. But never, never approve of the sin.

[Markel]

Originally posted by Jpeace121
Regardless of what I stand for as a Christian, I think my point is that NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO DO THIS.

The last thing we need right now is more schism and division, which is exactly what Falwell's words will create. If ever, now is when we need to come together as a country.

Love and tolerance. Exactly topane. Which, incidentally, are the foundations of the Gospels and Christ's ministry.
Outstanding response, Jpeace.

[topane]

Um....so, if there weren't gays, we wouldn't have been attacked? If we said the Lord's Prayer every day in school, we wouldn't have been attacked? Seems to me that they are fighting a "holy" war, and all who oppose their beliefs are the enemy.

[attgig]

he said moronic things, and yeah...pat robertson is as big/BIGGER moron for having on the show and letting him say such stuffs, and 'concurring'.


geez...
:(
:umm:

and they wonder why people don't respect them and don't respect Christianity :(.....punks - keep your trap shut! :thumbdown

[chrissy]

He is retracting it... well, appologizing for it

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/index.html

[Markel]

I just wish these guys would make up their minds whether they want to be involved in preaching or in politics. They need to choose one and leave the other alone.

[fakesurfers]

Falwell's theory is really rich... maybe he thinks that if we turn into a theocracy maybe we can jihad the jihadders...

[aglio412]

hmm, well maybe mr falwell should organize a group of homosexuals and feminists to skyjack some planes and crash them into some muslim landmarks...

then the US could go worldwide with a 21st century version of the crusades.

all hail falwell...the future leader of the christian world.

what a f'ing moron...can't believe anyone has the nerve to point fingers or come to assinine conclusions at a time like this.

[Jihforce]

More proof of what happens when you have your head too far up your own @rse.
Good job Falwell, that was a nice way to show American what a great guy you are! :thumbdown

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Love, yes.... Tolerance... to what? Every viewpoint, every devious practice? Show me the Scripture and Verse in the Bible where God permits everything. I have said it before and I will say it again: People who believe in everything believe in nothing.
If you truly believe in tolerance, then Bid Laden is an OK kind of guy.
Love the sinner but hate the sin. But never, never approve of the sin.

what makes you think that because we disagree with you, we said we should approve of every deviant practice and sin? you think us evil atheists and non-christians approve of murder, rape, and ugly hawaiian print shirts? you think your god punished a bunch of random people because some of us don't want jesus waggling his finger at our non-christian children from his spot above the blackboard? because some of us think it's okay to fall passionately in love with someone of the same gender? get over yourself.

good job, falwell... after that stunning speech, now everybody's just dying to worship a god who randomly kills people other than the "sinners." he's a real god of love and fairness. :rolleyes: i'd rather worship a glow-in-the-dark budweiser coaster.

[Jeffbx]

Amazing... here's a time where people need to be working together toward a common goal, and this so-called christian is working on tearing things apart. That's a good reaction, Falwell - when things go bad, throw blame around. That'll get things moving in the right direction. :rolleyes:

Isn't this how this whole mess got started? "We're right and they're wrong, so let's force them to be 'right'"?

[Grimm]

This is why I am evil. The "good" people in this country are just sick. The thought that it's the fault of people for being free thinking. When the real problem was caused by animals who refused to accept free thought.

Sick Sick Sick Sick Sick!!!!!!!

[Markel]

Originally posted by welfareloser
you think us evil atheists and non-christians approve of murder, rape, and ugly hawaiian print shirts?
I love the inclusion of the hawaiian print shirts! :heh:

[Markel]

Originally posted by evilcyclops
This is why I am evil. The "good" people in this country are just sick.
No, it's just that you are looking at the wrong "good" people. Look at the heros on flight 93 who (apparently) overpowered the highjackers. Look at some of the stories about those who assisted others escape the WTC. Look at the rescuers who perished trying to help others. Look at those who are lining up to donate blood, and those who are donating in other ways to help. Look at those who have true compassion for the situation (and ignore the loonies).

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Markel

I love the inclusion of the hawaiian print shirts! :heh:

hey man, i'm no bigot... some hawaiian print shirts are okay... some of my best friends wear them. i'm just all for destroying the ugly ones with extreme prejudice.

[Jpeace121]

Originally posted by welfareloser


:rolleyes: i'd rather worship a glow-in-the-dark budweiser coaster.

Do you have one of these?:D

And while ol' one eye makes a valid point, Markel makes an excellent counterpoint. Those who society/the world/religion/etc. say are the 'good ones' are often times the ones that are the worst.

There is good out there. Sometimes you just have to look really hard to find it.

[OC]

I have no problem with faith and religion - I have my own deep relationship with God. I also think that any religious zealot has a screw loose. They all want to tell us what we should believe. Most want to damn those that do not share their beliefs - God does not teach this, thus they are going against the teachings of God.

I can only be glad that Falwell and his sheep supporters have not launched a campaign of violence like some other so-called "religious" men have done in the name of God.

I can write Falwell off as a misguided idiot and be done with it. I wish I could do the same with others.

-OC

[attgig]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Love, yes.... Tolerance... to what? Every viewpoint, every devious practice? Show me the Scripture and Verse in the Bible where God permits everything. I have said it before and I will say it again: People who believe in everything believe in nothing.
If you truly believe in tolerance, then Bid Laden is an OK kind of guy.
Love the sinner but hate the sin. But never, never approve of the sin.

Originally posted by welfareloser


what makes you think that because we disagree with you, we said we should approve of every deviant practice and sin? you think us evil atheists and non-christians approve of murder, rape, and ugly hawaiian print shirts? you think your god punished a bunch of random people because some of us don't want jesus waggling his finger at our non-christian children from his spot above the blackboard? because some of us think it's okay to fall passionately in love with someone of the same gender? get over yourself.

good job, falwell... after that stunning speech, now everybody's just dying to worship a god who randomly kills people other than the "sinners." he's a real god of love and fairness. :rolleyes: i'd rather worship a glow-in-the-dark budweiser coaster.

geez, totally off topic..johnny...dude, where u coming from? ok, there are standards in the bible...but....ummm, Falwell said moronic things...he screwed up...I think that's what we're talking about...

Yeah, there are 'messed up people' in the world, and you know what else, we're ALL sinners, and ALL need to repent, Christian or non-Christian.

And, welfare, although it's tough to digest it right now, God is Good All The Time.

[Brendan]

Originally posted by evilcyclops
This is why I am evil. The "good" people in this country are just sick.

What evidence do you have that these people (Robertson, Falwell, etc.) are good besides that they say they are? Listen to what they say and watch what they do. Make your own determination. Clearly they are the deviants.

Let me assure you, if you are not on the side of these crackpots, you are on the side of good.

[TheLoneGunman]

Perhaps Falwell, Robertson, Bin laden, David Koresh, and others can all gather in Hell and discuss their extremist religious views.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by att gig

And, welfare, although it's tough to digest it right now, God is Good All The Time.

i understand that - i was making the point that the god johnnymmmmkay? seems to be referring to would not be good all the time.

[ironchef]

Originally posted by welfareloser
i understand that - i was making the point that the god johnnymmmmkay? seems to be referring to would not be good all the time.
welfare, i'm so happy you're on our side. :thumbup:

you never fail to make me giggle or think. 'atta girl! :)

[The Happy Squirrel]

screw the retraction
they should parachut his ass into Kabul with an Anerican flag parachute and an "I love NY" t-shirt

<then bomb the hell outta Kabul as hes running for the Mounted Police and thier relentless barrage of towel snapping

[johnnymk]

You people have come to some really wild conclusions about a very simple question that I asked...Tolerance to what?
It does appear that Falwell's timing was improper. There is no justification for what the terrorists have done. None, absolutely none. And I seriously doubt that he believes that any American deserves what happened September 11.
If you don't want to believe in an an absolute authority or even any absolutes whatsoever, that's your business. But to jump all over people who preach that there are Truths or an absolute Truth giver and address them as Fanatics willing to kill for what they believe, that's scary. That is really extremist thinking.
Sorry, but that's not the gospel that I have been taught.
And just because I believe that not everything is acceptable in God's eyes and that there are prices to be paid, maybe not in this Life but the next, well, too bad. Everyone deep down inside knows that they don't measure up , regardless of the justifications that they whisper or shout to themselves or others.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by johnnymk
You people have come to some really wild conclusions about a very simple question that I asked...Tolerance to what?


you did not very simply ask "tolerance to what?" you accusingly asked if we should tolerate:


Originally posted by johnnymk
Every viewpoint, every devious practice?

then you offensively challenge:


Originally posted by johnnymk
Show me the Scripture and Verse in the Bible where God permits everything.

as if we had ever implied that the bible, god, jesus, or your aunt tilly had ever said that everything should be tolerated; as if we had ever implied that WE think EVERYTHING should be tolerated. we didn't.

selective hearing. tunnel vision. more interested in stating your opinion than meaningfully engaging in the ongoing conversation. THE CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WHAT FALWELL SAID WAS APPROPRIATE. you responded with "people who tolerate stuff i don't like are wrong. specially since my opinion comes straight from the bible, nyeah." how appropriate is that?

go pray, and leave me alone until you can engage in conversation like an adult. and buy some q-tips while you're at it.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Everyone deep down inside knows that they don't measure up , regardless of the justifications that they whisper or shout to themselves or others.

yee-haw, a man who knows how everybody feels inside. good for you.

[welfareloser]

and another thing (no i'm not finished yet)

i do not begrudge you your truths. i do not begrudge you your faith. i do not begrudge you your preaching them.

i begrudge you your assumptions about what we think which are based on nothing at all besides your own prejudices, and not anything that has been said here. i begrudge you smacking people upside the head with "well, I'M faithful" at the most inappropriate time imaginable.

[Jpeace121]

As much as I am reluctant to quote scripture, because I have seen it done in such irresponsible and inappropriate ways, I quote it here because this passage does seem appropriate.

When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, and one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He [Jesus] said to them, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second one is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

-Matthew 22:34-40

My response is that the absolute truth we are called to as Christians, and as humans for that matter, is love. And what Falwell said was not love. It was hate. It was said, even though he later retracted (which retraction seems hollow to me, somehow), with spite and malice. These things stand in contradiction to the overall message of the Christian God, the God of the New Testament, a God who loved before anything else.

This is the Gospel that I've been taught. And it seems to me that the human spirit gives us a sense of dignity towards one another that demands this love, regardless of what god you believe in.

[ironchef]

Originally posted by johnnymk
You people have come to some really wild conclusions about a very simple question that I asked...Tolerance to what?
Who's asking for tolerance?

"Tolerance to what?" is a good question. Tolerance should be a given here in the US. Tolerance of beliefs, anyway. Tolerance of actions is different. That's where we get into absolutes.


Originally posted by johnnymk
It does appear that Falwell's timing was improper.
Now there's an understatement! :heh:


Originally posted by johnnymk
There is no justification for what the terrorists have done. None, absolutely none.
It's a rare occasion johnny, but I think we're all in agreement here.


Originally posted by johnnymk
And I seriously doubt that he believes that any American deserves what happened September 11.
His words make it apparent that he is doing exactly that: all you heathens not following the Good Reverend's Version of Christianity have made this attack possible and deserve the damnation you're receiving.


Originally posted by johnnymk
If you don't want to believe in an an absolute authority or even any absolutes whatsoever, that's your business.
The Good Reverend would have us believe that it's all our business. That the non-believing have invited this upon us. :angel:

It's absolutely impossible to deny absolutes, johnny.



Originally posted by johnnymk
But to jump all over people who preach that there are Truths or an absolute Truth giver and address them as Fanatics willing to kill for what they believe, that's scary. That is really extremist thinking.
No kidding it's extremist. Someone should tell ol' fanactical Falwell that.


Originally posted by johnnymk
Sorry, but that's not the gospel that I have been taught.
That's not what Falwell says. Are you a dissenter, too?


Originally posted by johnnymk
And just because I believe that not everything is acceptable in God's eyes and that there are prices to be paid, maybe not in this Life but the next, well, too bad.
Falwell just paid the price of respectability and credibility in eyes of lots of Christians, I'd imagine. Too bad for him.

We dissenters just paid the price for not being sheep. Too bad for us too, eh johnny?


Originally posted by johnnymk
Everyone deep down inside knows that they don't measure up , regardless of the justifications that they whisper or shout to themselves or others.
Now that's precious, johnny. Measure up to what? Falwell? You? Any other zealout that wants to damn me?

It's funny.. I wasn't born a sinner, johnny. I wasn't born evil. I've never once pointed to a person and told him to repent. Look around you at the ones shouting, johnny, and ask yourself who measures up to your supposed ideal.

[johnnymk]

welfare, since you are such an authority to what I really believe, I want to ask YOU what your defintion of Tolerance is. Nobody else has answered that question yet. Everyone seems to be dancing around the question and yet no one can clarify what they really believe.

[Blu]

So Falwell thinks that one of the reasons the founding fathers decided to start the revolutions is bull? What a jackass. I'm not a church going person, and never have been. I'm not a member of a religon, and don't intend to join. It's not that I don't agree with the practices, it's just something I don't do. But I can promise you that I am a better person than alot of people that are. Screw Fallwell, he's unpatriotic at best during a time when that is what's needed from the leaders. And it's unfortunate that he holds that title.


TBG

[ironchef]

THIS JUST IN!!!!!


The purple teletubby is responsible. We should've listened to Jerry long ago, we could've been saved from this terrible disaster.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by johnnymk
welfare, since you are such an authority to what I really believe, I want to ask YOU what your defintion of Tolerance is. Nobody else has answered that question yet. Everyone seems to be dancing around the question and yet no one can clarify what they really believe.

when did i claim to know what you what believe, beyond what you have clearly stated here?

and you never asked for a definition of tolerance before now. we're not mind readers.

nobody's been dancing around the question except you; everyone else was discussing another topic. what would you like for us to clarify about their beliefs? ask me some specific questions, and i will answer them.

tolerance: The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.

having "tolerance," or describing oneself as a "tolerant" person, doesn't mean tolerating everything, a worry which you earlier expressed. you can tolerate some things without tolerating others. i, for one, tolerate homosexuality, a wide variety of religions, non-religious morality, etc.

i have a low tolerance for people who say that "If you truly believe in tolerance, then Bid Laden is an OK kind of guy." who here has ever said we should tolerate bin laden?

[Jpeace121]

Originally posted by ironchef
THIS JUST IN!!!!!


The purple teletubby is responsible. We should've listened to Jerry long ago, we could've been saved from this terrible disaster.

:heh: Touche, ironchef.

[johnnymk]

So there are different degrees of tolerance? Then where do you draw the line?

[ironchef]

Originally posted by johnnymk
So there are different degrees of tolerance? Then where do you draw the line?
Sure there are. I'm in long pants and a t-shirt right now. I'm chilly, but I'm not cold. Others in the office and shivering and have sweaters on. I tolerate the cold better than they do.

Or were you looking for a more metaphorical explanation?

[froggystyle]

our country is founded on the principle that everybody has the right to do anything they please as long as it does not impede upon anybody elses right to do what they want. we have an obligation in this country to TOLERATE all individuals and their views. This does not mean we have to like them or their views but since we share the same land and we all want the right to be free we must tolerate them. IT is when our fundamental rights are compromised that we no longer have an obligation to tollerate those who compromise our rights. by forfittling our rights you forefit your own.

I have never had a problem with people in their own societies doing what their society deems apropriate. But when those people chose to take part in the standards of the global society in which we reside, then they must play by the rules of the global society and not their own. If they orchestrate atacks on our world society then they must be punnished for breaking those rules. The instigators have then forefitted their rights in this global society. There is no longer a necessity to tolerate the existense of those people as they do not respect our rights.

My point is that we must tolerate each other in order to live peacefully. Fallwell does not tolerate people, he is an instigator and an intolerant biggot. I would not however wish harm on falwell, his beliefs have not impeded on my ability to believe my own and his actions have not impeded on my ability to do what i like. It is when he does impede upon my fundamental rights, that those basic rules are broken. at that point I no longer will feel an obligation to tolerate him. until that point, I will however voice my oppinions on him as he chooses to do the same to us. This does not mean that i dont tolerate him i just dont like him or agree with him. The same goes for johnny, I dont agree with virtually anything he says...but i do feel obligated to tolerate him.

to tolerate means to allow everybody to parctice their own beliefs and exist under the fundamental rights alotted to them under their own society as long as it does not impede upon our right to do the same thing. It does nto mean that we must agree, we simply must tolerate

this is what tolerate means in my oppinion i hope that clarifys for you johnny

[attgig]

Originally posted by johnnymk
You people have come to some really wild conclusions about a very simple question that I asked...Tolerance to what?
It does appear that Falwell's timing was improper. There is no justification for what the terrorists have done. None, absolutely none. And I seriously doubt that he believes that any American deserves what happened September 11.
If you don't want to believe in an an absolute authority or even any absolutes whatsoever, that's your business. But to jump all over people who preach that there are Truths or an absolute Truth giver and address them as Fanatics willing to kill for what they believe, that's scary. That is really extremist thinking.
Sorry, but that's not the gospel that I have been taught.
And just because I believe that not everything is acceptable in God's eyes and that there are prices to be paid, maybe not in this Life but the next, well, too bad. Everyone deep down inside knows that they don't measure up , regardless of the justifications that they whisper or shout to themselves or others.

Johnny,
Ok, I think I hear where you're coming from...
For your tolerance to what question, i think froggy does a nice job in explaining the 'to what' part of the question: tolerate our neighbors as long as it doesn't infringe upon our rights.

Now, why do I bash Falwell??? because his timing is VERY improper. I understand where Falwell is coming from, and to some degree, I agree with him. However, those words should be said in his pulpit - to his congregation, and IMO, in order to move his congregation into repentance and prayer. Like i said before, we ALL need to repent. When he says stuff like that to America however(and 700 club is broadcast pretty much everywhere, and usually isn't JUST for Christian eyes/ears)....the focus of his message and his belief seems to have TOTALLY different intentions from those that I stated above. And, when speaking publicly about God, Jesus, and 'for' all believers, it has an effect on society and Christianity.

Are we wrong for bashing what he said? Well, if it comes with intentions of saying that he shouldn't be believing that junks, yeah I guess so. But, there are valid opinions about his speach that can be made. Is the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force wrong in saying "It has its roots in the same fanaticism that enables people like Jerry Falwell to preach hate against those who do not think, live, or love in the exact same way he does"?? eh, they're entitled to their opinion too right?

I think we're all being 'tolerant' here, cause, well, everyone's who bashed him hasn't infringed on his rights as a US citizen.

And, well, anyways, he's appologized now, so all's good, rite??? :)

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by johnnymk
So there are different degrees of tolerance? Then where do you draw the line?

of course. same as with love, hate, dislike, etc. you can hate without hating EVEYTHING. you can love, be a loving person, be a person who believes in love as a general guiding principle, and not love EVERYTHING. this seems like a "duh" to me, and i'm surprised that you even ask the question.

here, i think, is our problem (and correct me if i'm wrong, i'm only guessing from the little bits of information you have given us.)

my guess is that you employ the following definition of tolerance: leeway for variation from a standard. (this definition is generally intended for use in the scientific sense, as in a statistical tolerance calculations, or for quantifiable, measurable entities, as in ironchef's tolerance for cold example.)

i am further going to guess that the "standard," in your mind, is the bible. my final guess is going to be that you, under this definition and standard, have zero "tolerance." you do not feel that any deviation from the standards set out in the bible are acceptable, am i correct?

if so, fine. so long as you don't run around beating homosexuals and out-of-wedlock co-habitors to death with a stick while quoting bible verses (or taunting or harrassing them, or otherwise making a concerted effort to make their lives worse) you're simply expressing your opinion, and welcome to it. for example, if you want to try to convince them of the error of their ways, to save them, to make them better people as you see it, then you mean well and more power to you.

i'm not christian. the bible isn't my standard. same goes for 80% of the world's population. nuff said.

and to give a simplistic answer to your line-drawing question: i draw the line at the point where attitudes, words or behavior hurt people.

[froggystyle]

Welfare, thoug i agree with 99% of what you say, I feel inclined to belive that most anything anybody could say would hurt someone somewhere. Just a thought. but im with you on the rest.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by froggystyle
Welfare, thoug i agree with 99% of what you say, I feel inclined to belive that most anything anybody could say would hurt someone somewhere. Just a thought. but im with you on the rest.

well, yeah, good point... lemme revise to intentionally hurtful words, or perhaps words that do nothing but hurt, or maybe it would be more accurate to say words that do more harm than good...

you get the point. and it's a minor one. :) like i said, it was a simplistic answer, which necessarily leaves out some information, because (and i know this will make some people snort...) i don't feel like writing a 20-page essay.

[eSDee]

Just for the record, I'm a Christian. I believe in love and tolerance as well. I don't believe that Christianity is the only way to believe. I don't believe that people who aren't Christians are damned for eternity. I believe that you are free to believe or not believe in whatever you want, as long as you are respectful towards the lives of other human beings you are ok in my book. There are many times when I am embarrased by people like Falwell who call themselves Christian "leaders", who preach things that are directly opposite to what I believe. For those who are offended by Falwell's remarks, I don't blame you. His words don't reflect love, but hate and sort of an "I told you so" mentality. Please believe me that this is not the way most Christians feel. Falwell is an idiot.
In a time like this, we don't need to start segregating ourselves by religions. These terrorists did not attack us because we are Christians, Jewish, or Atheists, they attacked us because we are Americans. We need to stand together as Americans, despite our beliefs, so that we can start healing together as a nation.

[OC]

"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve," said Falwell

As far as I'm concerened, he just condoned what the terrorists did.

-OC