heres REAL news: U.S. starts attacks on kabul an hour ago

[Anck Su Namun]

Originally posted by chosenfool
just tuned in to CBS (i like dan rather than the other news posers on TV), and theyre showing footages.
Oh that figures. The minute I turn off the tv something happens. It sounds like targeted bombing. We are also dropping food and medicine to starving afhganistians at the border.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by nefertiti

Oh that figures. The minute I turn off the tv something happens. It sounds like targeted bombing. We are also dropping food and medicine to starving afhganistians at the border.

damn i hope that food is poisoned:angry:

[Burzhui]

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/07/gen.america.under.attack/index.html

[Anck Su Namun]

Originally posted by Burzhui


damn i hope that food is poisoned:angry:

those afghan people don't deserve to die. The talaban starve them to death, murder them, and all kinds of crap.

It's the government that sucks. They should be destroyed. Unfortunately once we really start attacking them, innocent people will be killed. It's inevitable, that's the way war goes.

[Burzhui]

Wake up and smell the mortar... who told you that oh these poor people blah blha blah? The news... bull****... ask anyone who served in afghanistan.. that should open your eyes

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by Burzhui


damn i hope that food is poisoned:angry:

can we say "inappropriate?" Grow up Burzhui.

[Burzhui]

it's not innapropriate... innapropriate would be me showing something from http://www.chechnya.ru, but i won't although same kinds of **** was happening in afghanistan

[ArkiStan]

with all the hatred and anger in Burzhui, you would have thought he would volunteer to fight instead of sitting at his computer everyday sending thread bombs.... well, whatever he thinks helps...

[Burzhui]

I am there as soon as i get called, i'm registered and all, but for now i am doing my college thing and my work thing, if there is a draft gimme a gun and a knife and i'm in

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Burzhui
it's not innapropriate... innapropriate would be me showing something from http://www.chechnya.ru, but i won't although same kinds of **** was happening in afghanistan

Don't be dumber then you need to be. Dropping poisened food on children and women who already get enough crap from their own country without that bull****.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LPM


Don't be dumber then you need to be. Dropping poisened food on children and women who already get enough crap from their own country without that bull****.

and yet once again i have to ask you, why do you think that they are ohh soo poor and tortured, and suffering?

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui

and yet once again i have to ask you, why do you think that they are ohh soo poor and tortured, and suffering?
Man, what hole have you been living in? :confused:

[Anck Su Namun]

Originally posted by Burzhui
Wake up and smell the mortar... who told you that oh these poor people blah blha blah? The news... bull****... ask anyone who served in afghanistan.. that should open your eyes

Yes normally I do not believe what the liberal media serves up on a silver platter. But when I see a dead body of a man who was skinned and had his skulled crushed in, and his starving family crying...I think...hmmm...the talaban isn't very nice to their people!

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by nefertiti


Yes normally I do not believe what the liberal media serves up on a silver platter. But when I see a dead body of a man who was skinned and had his skulled crushed in, and his starving family crying...I think...hmmm...the talaban isn't very nice to their people!

yea supporters of norhtern alliance get screwed pretty bad, but everyone else, contrary to popular belief doesn't mind the taliban... ask any afghan vet

[LPMiller]

but...and lets be clear here...the northern alliance doesn't support people who attack us. Point in their favor.

They allows their women to you know, have a freakin life other than being slaves to stone age thinking husbands.

I'm sorry, I don't think any one in Afgahn would actually miss the taliban. Other than a certain bearded terrorist who I hope at some point forgets to duck.

[zenbooty]

Originally posted by Burzhui
Wake up and smell the mortar... who told you that oh these poor people blah blha blah? The news... bull****... ask anyone who served in afghanistan.. that should open your eyes

And who from the U.S. has served in Afghanistan that you know of. I can't remember any times we've had soldiers there in the past 20 years.

Idiot. If your so rah rah let's go kill'em all why are you waiting like a pussy for some "draft" that's never going to happen, instead of volunteering immediately for active duty? Its so easy to talk brave from the comfort of your own home, huh? Let's see you live amongst the refugees fleeing Kabul and then we'll see if you really feel they deserve such inhumane actions as poisoning. Dick.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by zenbooty


And who from the U.S. has served in Afghanistan that you know of. I can't remember any times we've had soldiers there in the past 20 years.


Umm dude, i'm russian i know some people that have served there duh

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by zenbooty


And who from the U.S. has served in Afghanistan that you know of. I can't remember any times we've had soldiers there in the past 20 years.

Idiot. If your so rah rah let's go kill'em all why are you waiting like a pussy for some "draft" that's never going to happen, instead of volunteering immediately for active duty? Its so easy to talk brave from the comfort of your own home, huh? Let's see you live amongst the refugees fleeing Kabul and then we'll see if you really feel they deserve such inhumane actions as poisoning. Dick.

dude the thing being i don't want o volounter because of the stupid and iditotic ruling that i will be under, they will let us die... plus you can't take initiative at all. SO you have to stand there and wait for commands, and instead of charging we will stay there to hold grounds... and will die

[JPR]

Originally posted by Burzhui


dude the thing being i don't want o volounter because of the stupid and iditotic ruling that i will be under, they will let us die... plus you can't take initiative at all. SO you have to stand there and wait for commands, and instead of charging we will stay there to hold grounds... and will die

Uhhh it's not a game of Counter-Strike where you just run out and start firing at anything that moves. There are no wall hacks and AWP whores, it's farkin combat. There has to be commands and orders in order to keep folks run running a muck and causing more good then harm. Sheesh
:rolleyes:

[poiselle]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Umm dude, i'm russian i know some people that have served there duh
Did your friends who served over there talk about the small plastic landmines they scattered all over that country that resembled butterflies? The Russian troops invaded a country and what a surprise when the populace fought tooth and nail against them. Would you expect any better if someone invaded here? Americans will drag a man behind a truck or tie some kid to a fence to freeze to death because they don't like who they are. Imagine what would happen if we were occupied. The Russians have hardly carried themselves as poor victims in the conflicts they have been in. War sucks and if you want to kill everyone so badly go serve in the Israeli army. They are constantly getting shot at and you can probably kill someone which seems to be a lofty goal of yours.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by poiselle

Did your friends who served over there talk about the small plastic landmines they scattered all over that country that resembled butterflies? The Russian troops invaded a country and what a surprise when the populace fought tooth and nail against them. Would you expect any better if someone invaded here? Americans will drag a man behind a truck or tie some kid to a fence to freeze to death because they don't like who they are. Imagine what would happen if we were occupied. The Russians have hardly carried themselves as poor victims in the conflicts they have been in. War sucks and if you want to kill everyone so badly go serve in the Israeli army. They are constantly getting shot at and you can probably kill someone which seems to be a lofty goal of yours.

Bull****, the populace did not fight against the russians at first, until they were brainwashed by religious sects that is.

The Russians did not invade Afghanistan and rape the lands and the peoples.
This is what actually happened: There used to be a king in afghanistan, however Russia wanted an alie in the middle east... so they sent in Afghanis who studied in political universities in Russia, they overthrew the king and came to power, making a government.. which started to control the country and brought more culture, food, water... the country blossomed, it was starting to be built, however the religious sects didn't like that, that is way before taliban by the way, these religious sects said this is anti-muslim (they are just like the amish except a million times more violent in this aspect) and skinned and hung the high-post pro-Soviet Union Governemtn officials... the soviet union realized that they are losing control, and sent in troops to deal with these religious sects, and to somehow subdue them... well that was a mistake, because the "people" there will sell their mother for enough money.. and are backstabing bastards... so what happened was russian military came in and said we will free you from these religious nuts, and the afghanis said oh that is very good my friend, and as soon as the military turned their back they would get stabed.
The Russian soldiers were ambushed by the people they thought they were saving, they were mutilated, decapitated, etc..(by the way same was and is happening in chechnia DO NOT GO TO THIS LINK IF YOU ARE FAINT OF HEART< THIS IS HIGHLY GRAPHICAL MATERIAL http://www.chechnya.ru/query.asp?page=1&archive=20.09.2001%207:42:07&lang=r&part=video&id_news=12#10:43:00)
Then Gorbachev withdrew the armies from Afghanistan.. and TALIBAN came to power. Bin laden says that all the people there are poor innocent people, he uses immages of disabled orphanes, etc.. guess what boys and girls bull****.. about 90% of Afghanistan support the TALIBAN... ooops well i didn't know that you might say, but it's true and only 10% moved up north , this 10% is still Pro Russian and anti-TALIBAN... and they are being exterminated every day.
By the way here is a gory fact, many times after the russians were ambushed their heads were cut off and collected just so the Afghanis could show their Commanders that they were victorious.

[zenbooty]

So, Burzhi, what you're saying, behind so much flowery language, is that Russia designed, prepared, and contributed to the overthrow of a sovereign nation for political reasons. This puppet regime was overthrown by the local people in revolution, led by the Islamic religious leaders. Since Russia would no longer "have control" as you say, they saw it necessary to invade and attempt to take the country by force, flattening it in the process. This sounds reasonable to you? It sounds like imperialistic conquest to me!

You were told that the civilian people were brainwashed by religious leaders to rebel against the puppet regime. Don't you think it more likely that those people were angry at how they were taken over by Russian machinations, who were now really "in control," as you well put it, and all they needed were leaders to spark that anger into a populist effort? Isn't that closer to how you would feel if your nation was taken over by men on puppet strings? Perhaps it is you who have been brainwashed by the Soviet media who, controlled by the state at that time, would seek to placate the populace and keep them rallying for the war?

Look, its not like America is innocent of this, either. We've done similar things to many countries in South and Central America, and of course there's Vietnam. The point is everyone has to use more common sense in assessing world relational matters. Individually, every person on this Earth is getting information feeds controlled by men with their own interests in mind. We are all "brainwashed" in one way or another, for some reason or other. But the fact remains that the vast majority of any population is comprised of average Joe Shmoe's like you and me. Around the world, normal citizens just want to live their lives peacefully how they want, and not be messed around with. This is a core truth from which all international relations should be built around (as well as personal relations and the legal system, but those are other arguments).

And I have to say that while soldiers and military veterans are a great source of info about the fighting of war, the experience of battle and being out in the field, and the nature of the enemy's military, they are the worst source for the diplomatic and social aspects of war. No one gets a thicker feed of propaganda than the foot soldiers, for obvious reasons. It is beaten into their heads through boot camp all the way to battle that the enemy consists of Moloch-worshipping psychopaths who eat their own children.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by LPM


Don't be dumber then you need to be. Dropping poisened food on children and women who already get enough crap from their own country without that bull****.


LMP and some others here it is so cute how naive you are, do you really believe that those who are inocent will get to the food. I doubt it, they are not the one with the guns.
Besides, hungry people don't pick between pork or no pork.

I am not saying Americans should not provide the food, but if they do so, they sould make sure you give it to those who deserve it.

[poiselle]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Bull****, the populace did not fight against the russians at first, until they were brainwashed by religious sects that is.

Yes. The wonderful, peace loving Russians. My grandmother was from Poland. She got to see the lovely Russians too. They are just swell. My friends from Poland had to learn to speak Russian in school since why should they have a language. You have incredibly large blinders on. If somebody does not agree with you they are naive and any country that you don't like should be destroyed. The Russians are always looking for conscripts in Chechnya as well. Go back up your words. Send us pictures back from the front.

[johnnymk]

Russia has been responsible for more misery to other nations, including to their own people than can be imagined. Read Alexander Solzhenitzen's book: the Gulag Archipelago. Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever did( 10 million versus 6 million or more).
And when the so called Iron Curtain was lifted, nothing really changed. It is still an Evil Empire.
A friend of my sister went to Moscow several years ago to adopt a child. The hardness of the people and the living conditions, especially at the orphanage was beyond anything she had ever seen in a civilized world. Bribery and corruption are normal everyday events there. The Russians get everything they deserve.
But watch out. It appears that we may be joining forces with them in fighting the war with the Terrorists of the world. The media will start portraying them as the good guys, just like the spin about the Muslims basically being peaceful citizens of the world.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Kenas



LMP and some others here it is so cute how naive you are, do you really believe that those who are inocent will get to the food. I doubt it, they are not with the guns.
Besides, hungry people don't pick between port or no pork.

I am not saying they should not provide the food, but if they provide the food, make sure you give it to those who deserve it.

I may or may not be naive, but at least I can type.:dodgy:

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Russia has been responsible for more misery to other nations, including to their own people than can be imagined. Read Alexander Solzhenitzen's book: the Gulag Archipelago. Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever did( 10 million versus 6 million or more).
And when the so called Iron Curtain was lifted, nothing really changed. It is still an Evil Empire.
A friend of my sister went to Moscow several years ago to adopt a child. The hardness of the people and the living conditions, especially at the orphanage was beyond anything she had ever seen in a civilized world. Bribery and corruption are normal everyday events there. The Russians get everything they deserve.
But watch out. It appears that we may be joining forces with them in fighting the war with the Terrorists of the world. The media will start portraying them as the good guys, just like the spin about the Muslims basically being peaceful citizens of the world.

I fell sorry for you, if you are saying that russia is an efvil empire then you can not deny that AMerica is evil as well.. and if you say no then you are a hypocrite
Yes Russia is corrupt and bribery takes place evryday... but wake up buddy boy, it's the same thing in America. What is it that the russians get and what is it that they deserve?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LPM


I may or may not be naive, but at least I can type.:dodgy:

That was such a low blow, wtf? :shake:

[Kenas]

Originally posted by LPM


I may or may not be naive, but at least I can type.:dodgy:

Hmm should I say "good argument"?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Kenas


Hmm should I say "good argument"?


yea, it's like saying oh yea... oh yea... well.. well, well you smell. so there

I mean grow up

[Jenny]

Originally posted by Burzhui
I mean grow up


Wait a minute... This coming from you? Who is the one on these forums that REALLY needs to grow up?? lol

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Jenny



Who is the one on these forums that REALLY needs to grow up??


Hmm i dunno ... LPM???:D

[johnnymk]

Some Indians after making lots of money in America go back to their homeland and live like kings. Ditto for some Italians that work in pizza shops. Same thing for other ethnic groups.
I don't remember hearing of any Russian going back to Mother Russia if something similar happens here. It's always a one way street.
Are you going back?

[eSDee]

Ok well I don't know about all that other crap that Burzhui is spouting, but as far as the WAR is concerned, the Taliban is in for it bigtime. Of course we don't want to get overconfident, but the US is sending in the Special Forces, Navy Seals, Airborne Rangers to name just a few. These soldiers are the most well trained and elite forces in the world, and anyone who has to feel their wrath I do not envy. Combined with the technology I give it 6 months max until they find Bin Laden.
As far as giving relief is concerned, I believe it is a good thing. I also don't think they'll be dropping so much food over the cities where the soldiers might get it, but more like the refugee camps that have been created after the Taliban started evicting people from their homes. But I do think that by supplying aid for these refugees it conveys a message that we are not interested in liquidating the country, just those evil bastards who are responsible not only for the suffering created by the WTC bombings, but also the suffering of the Afghani people as well.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Some Indians after making lots of money in America go back to their homeland and live like kings. Ditto for some Italians that work in pizza shops. Same thing for other ethnic groups.
I don't remember hearing of any Russian going back to Mother Russia if something similar happens here. It's always a one way street.
Are you going back?

Some russians go back, of course some of them go back man, most still have families there.
How many generations of your people have been here? did they go back?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by EsDeeLoco
Ok well I don't know about all that other crap that Burzhui is spouting, but as far as the WAR is concerned, the Taliban is in for it bigtime. Of course we don't want to get overconfident, but the US is sending in the Special Forces, Navy Seals, Airborne Rangers to name just a few. These soldiers are the most well trained and elite forces in the world, and anyone who has to feel their wrath I do not envy.


That's sad bro, you are so very very naive... speacial forces blah blah blah, seals blah blha blah... guess what they all got their a$$es wooped 2 years ago during the war games with Israel. Any russian mig can take out any of the F-xx planes... no matter what Top Gun taught you

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Kenas


Hmm should I say "good argument"?

if you are comparing it to your own, then yes. Mostly because it can actually be read without a translation guide.

[johnnymk]

You wanted me to list the problems in Russia. Here are a few:
Chronic Hyperinflation
Shortages of Everything
Low Quality Goods, especially Automobiles
Lousy Medical Treatment
Rampant Alcoholism
Free Press practically Non Existent

And no, I don't intend to go back to any of the countries my ancestors came from.

[Grimm]

Originally posted by Burzhui


That's sad bro, you are so very very naive... speacial forces blah blah blah, seals blah blha blah... guess what they all got their a$$es wooped 2 years ago during the war games with Israel. Any russian mig can take out any of the F-xx planes... no matter what Top Gun taught you

Yeah, if the MIG can stay in the air long enough to find the F-xx. MIGs have so many mechanical problems it is amazing they even bother to put landing gear on them.

Oh, let me check.....
No.... It looks like we won the cold war, Russia lost. Unless we are really speaking Russian instead of English and I don't realize it.
Look, it's great to have pride in your own country. But please don't try to show it by disrespecting the country where we are all living in now. If you must, do it oun your way out, talk all the trash you want at the airport while waiting for your plane back to Russia.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LPM


if you are comparing it to your own, then yes. Mostly because it can actually be read without a translation guide.

Wow, LPM you are on a roll there buddy, another good one :rolleyes:

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by johnnymk
You wanted me to list the problems in Russia. Here are a few:
Chronic Hyperinflation
Shortages of Everything
Low Quality Goods, especially Automobiles
Lousy Medical Treatment
Rampant Alcoholism
Free Press practically Non Existent

And no, I don't intend to go back to any of the countries my ancestors came from.

Hmm let's see here i'll give you inflation... although not a big problem, problem for the elderly but anybody that has something going always find away out... and most of the time get more money out of it.

Shortages of Everything... well no, thats bull, they have more stuff then America, all the sh1t is good quality as well cause it comes from Europe.

Low quality goods? Who told you that? Give me a few examples here. And about the cars, well those cars are like unbrakable they will survive any and all kinds of severe conditions. They are like the old time cars like the old cadilacs, lincolns, dodges. These things don't look all too good, but they will beat anything you throw at them. Now true that they don't come in classes (i.e. GT, LS), however there are some models that are luxury all the way. AC of course doesn't exist cause it's just not needed but the most expensive cars will have installed as long as you pay.

Medical treatment there is very good, however it's free, which causes a problem, that being there is not enough money to put into medicine. But the doctors themselves raeally know what they're doing. Private clinics that one has to pay for, are much better then the best hospitals here.

Rampant alchoholism.... well although seen as a problem here. is not a big problem there, first of all it's because a person drinking a bottle of vodka here will die or go into an alchoholic shock(poisoning) right away, there people get a slight buzz... A group of 3 friends usually gets 3-4 bottles. So for you it seems like alchoholism, for us it's a relaxation technique :)

As for free press, if you mean free speech then there is free speech and the governemtn can't do anything about it, because the mafia controls it. So there is free speech and the people know the truth.

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui
As for free press, if you mean free speech then there is free speech and the governemtn can't do anything about it, because the mafia controls it.
You just undermined any argument that you possibly had. :heh:

[eSDee]

Originally posted by evilcyclops


Yeah, if the MIG can stay in the air long enough to find the F-xx. MIGs have so many mechanical problems it is amazing they even bother to put landing gear on them.

Not to mention that the Russian military is so busy selling their planes/tanks/trucks for scrap metal these days. I can't blame them that's just what happens when you don't pay your soldiers in say 18 months.




Oh, let me check.....
No.... It looks like we won the cold war, Russia lost. Unless we are really speaking Russian instead of English and I don't realize it.
Look, it's great to have pride in your own country. But please don't try to show it by disrespecting the country where we are all living in now. If you must, do it oun your way out, talk all the trash you want at the airport while waiting for your plane back to Russia.

Well said evilcyclops. Buzhrui you are racist idiot. You don't have to take your bullsh)t ideas outta this country, but I suggest you take it outta these boards. It's not welcome, dumbass.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by EsDeeLoco

Not to mention that the Russian military is so busy selling their planes/tanks/trucks for scrap metal these days. I can't blame them that's just what happens when you don't pay your soldiers in say 18 months.




The problem with you guys, is that you believe the press, freedom of press does not mean they will tell you the whole truth. You are feed by what a government want you to hear. The govrnment does not care much about the people, but believe me not for a minute did they stop developing weapons.
I understand that analizing facts is not the strongest key for many of the people on this board, but "where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."

[Kenas]

Originally posted by LPM


if you are comparing it to your own, then yes. Mostly because it can actually be read without a translation guide.

Should i respond to this? Or LPM looks stupid as it is.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Markel

You just undermined any argument that you possibly had. :heh:

You'd be very surprised but the mafia is a very important part of the economy

[Kenas]

Originally posted by evilcyclops


Yeah, if the MIG can stay in the air long enough to find the F-xx. MIGs have so many mechanical problems it is amazing they even bother to put landing gear on them.

Oh, let me check.....
No.... It looks like we won the cold war, Russia lost. Unless we are really speaking Russian instead of English and I don't realize it.
Look, it's great to have pride in your own country. But please don't try to show it by disrespecting the country where we are all living in now. If you must, do it oun your way out, talk all the trash you want at the airport while waiting for your plane back to Russia.

I am wondering what historic books did you read. Where does it say that America won the cold war? There were no winners in that war (I guess you would not know). Korea is still divided in two parts, China is still communist state, and Cuba is still right next to the America and still communist. America lost Vietnam War, Russia Afghanistan war (And now America is getting the consequences). Both countries lost large amount of money. And yet I don't see how America won the cold war. The fact that Russia is in a bad position is not because of America, that I can tell you for sure. It always was like that, it is just you did not know about it. There was no CNN in USSR (not that CNN is giving a lot of true stories now). It is the policy towards the rest of the 15 states of the former Soviet Union is what brought USSR down. Sad to tell you, but there were and still are more Russian spies in America then American spies in Russia. A lot of American secrets were stolen from US. And I still don't see how America won the cold war. Japan lost a war to US and now Japan is very dependent from US. Germany lost war (not to US, but lost it) and now it is under control of the West (before it was split). Russia is not under control, which could be scary sometimes. America can't even create the space defence system (or whatever it is called, PRO?), until Russia approves it. So now tell me what cold war did America win?

Don't get me wront, I love USA, but the history education given here is poor (well actually HS education sucks here, period).

[poiselle]

Originally posted by Kenas


The problem with you guys, is that you believe the press, freedom of press does not mean they will tell you the whole truth. You are feed by what a government want you to hear. The govrnment does not care much about the people, but believe me not for a minute did they stop developing weapons.
I understand that analizing facts is not the strongest key for many of the people on this board, but "where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."
I don't have any problems analyzing facts. I am actually pretty good at it. I know that the press does not tell the whole story, no press does. I generally try reading about an incident from sources from several countries. I guess Russia is now the land of milk and honey. That is fine. The Russian immigrants I spoke to said that there are shortages and generally you can get it if you can afford it, but not everyone can afford it. Russia is not an evil empire to be hated. I just wish that Burzhui would extend the same consideration to Arabs. The world ain't black and white and just because someone disagrees with you does not make them stupid or naive.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by poiselle

I don't have any problems analyzing facts. I am actually pretty good at it. I know that the press does not tell the whole story, no press does. I generally try reading about an incident from sources from several countries. I guess Russia is now the land of milk and honey. That is fine. The Russian immigrants I spoke to said that there are shortages and generally you can get it if you can afford it, but not everyone can afford it. Russia is not an evil empire to be hated. I just wish that Burzhui would extend the same consideration to Arabs. The world ain't black and white and just because someone disagrees with you does not make them stupid or naive.


I actually have met a lot of Naive people among Americans. Some believe that the whole world is just in love with them, others that if you don't punish the guilty one he will get better. The reality is they just get stronger.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by evilcyclops


Yeah, if the MIG can stay in the air long enough to find the F-xx. MIGs have so many mechanical problems it is amazing they even bother to put landing gear on them.

Oh, let me check.....
No.... It looks like we won the cold war, Russia lost. Unless we are really speaking Russian instead of English and I don't realize it.
Look, it's great to have pride in your own country. But please don't try to show it by disrespecting the country where we are all living in now. If you must, do it oun your way out, talk all the trash you want at the airport while waiting for your plane back to Russia.

You have got to be friggin kidding me.

number the first: Migs are far more superior machines then the F-xx, however if you are trying to base your opinion on games then of course it's false... however in real world a MIG let's say MIG-29 will rape an F-16... brutaly pogo-stick style without vaseline... and if that's not enough a SU-35 will kick both the MIGs ass and the F-16.

As for the cold war... AMerica did not win the cold war, and if you tell me that they did you are a complete moron.
It is impossible to win a cold war unless a treaty is sighned where one side accepts defeat. No one, won the cold war.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Kenas


I am wondering what historic books did you read. Where does it say that America won the cold war? There were no winners in that war (I guess you would not know). Korea is still divided in two parts, China is still communist state, and Cuba is still right next to the America and still communist. America lost Vietnam War, Russia Afghanistan war (And now America is getting the consequences). Both countries lost large amount of money. And yet I don't see how America won the cold war. The fact that Russia is in a bad position is not because of America, that I can tell you for sure. It always was like that, it is just you did not know about it. There was no CNN in USSR (not that CNN is giving a lot of true stories now). It is the policy towards the rest of the 15 states of the former Soviet Union is what brought USSR down. Sad to tell you, but there were and still are more Russian spies in America then American spies in Russia. A lot of American secrets were stolen from US. And I still don't see how America won the cold war. Japan lost a war to US and now Japan is very dependent from US. Germany lost war (not to US, but lost it) and now it is under control of the West (before it was split). Russia is not under control, which could be scary sometimes. America can't even create the space defence system (or whatever it is called, PRO?), until Russia approves it. So now tell me what cold war did America win?

Don't get me wront, I love USA, but the history education given here is poor (well actually HS education sucks here, period).

I have to agree, i love America but the education does suck a big one. As for the whole cold war thing i guess it's ok for you guys to think so since you still think that America won the WW2:rolleyes:

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui
As for the whole cold war thing i guess it's ok for you guys to think so since you still think that America won the WW2:rolleyes:
I guess you're right. The real winners were the countries that we defeated and then gave billions to them to rebuild.

[Burzhui]

.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Markel

I guess you're right. The real winners were the countries that we defeated and then gave billions to them to rebuild.

America moved in at the end of the war and opened a second front they defeated no one. Any good historian will tell you that much

[sbp]

Originally blabbered out by Burzhui
I have to agree, i love America but the education does suck a big one. As for the whole cold war thing i guess it's ok for you guys to think so since you still think that America won the WW2:rolleyes: The Soviet Union paid a frightful price for defending Nazi Germany. But you have conviently forgotten about the defeat of the Japanese Empire!


America moved in at the end of the war and opened a second front they defeated no one. Any good historian will tell you that much A few days before the surrender of Japan the Soviet Union declared war on Japan and seized the Kuril Islands.

[johnnymk]

Wow, sounds like Russia is the Worker's Paradise that Karl Marx so much hoped for.
I definitely want to go there and see first hand the wonderful things that communism has to offer. I also want to prompt Disney to build a park there and name it Fantasyland. Wonder how many people would visit it?

[Burzhui]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sbp
[B]The Soviet Union paid a frightful price for defending Nazi Germany. But you have conviently forgotten about the defeat of the Japanese Empire!
QUOTE]

WHAT? YOu have got to be kidding me? YOu mean America supported the nazis... America was the one who supplied them with funds... and then withdrew when they realized that they made a mistake.

As for Japan, nobody gave a fu*k about japan... except for America

[Kenas]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Wow, sounds like Russia is the Worker's Paradise that Karl Marx so much hoped for.
I definitely want to go there and see first hand the wonderful things that communism has to offer. I also want to prompt Disney to build a park there and name it Fantasyland. Wonder how many people would visit it?

Ha ha have you ever read Marx? What in particular you did not like about his theory (you sound so knowlegable, give me some quotes)? Or in Thomas More's Utopia.

[sbp]

Originally posted by Burzhui

WHAT? YOu have got to be kidding me? YOu mean America supported the nazis... America was the one who supplied them with funds... and then withdrew when they realized that they made a mistake.So that peace pact Stalin and Hitler made with each other never happened and they never divided Poland between the USSR and Nazi Germany. :rolleyes:


As for Japan, nobody gave a fu*k about japan... except for AmericaTry telling that to the Chinese, Aussies and others.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Kenas


Should i respond to this? Or LPM looks stupid as it is.

The irony here is beyond my ability to express.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by sbp
So that peace pact Stalin and Hitler made with each other never happened and they never divided Poland between the USSR and Nazi Germany. :rolleyes:

[b]Try telling that to the Chinese, Aussies and others.


There was a "pact" but both of them knew it was a BS pact. As for dividing something. Did not America and USSR divided, Korea, Germany, Afghanistan, Vietnam?

[Kenas]

Originally posted by LPM


The irony here is beyond my ability to express.

So far I did not see ability to express anything from your side. More like disability to insult.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Wow, LPM you are on a roll there buddy, another good one :rolleyes:

Well, I could waste time arguing with someone who appears to have a warped concept of history. But, when the foundation of an argument is based on incomprehensible prose, one must work to shore up that foundation first.

I don't understand why anyone would think that the ability to express an argument would not be as important as the argument itself; but then I see that one doesn't appear to care whether or not any one else has validity in their statements, but would instead listen only those they see as like minded. Or equally close minded.

I won't waste my time pointing out the amount of arms, food, munitions, etc, the US provided, via 'Liberty Ships' to England, France, and the USSR right at the begining of the war. I won't struggle with pointing out that American didn't open up the second front; that we were the ones attacked. I won't waste the breath explaining just how many Americans were involved in the invasion of Normandy, how many died, and who planned the damn thing from the beginging. I won't even mention that Japan was hardly a second front in a war that waged in Russia, Europe, Africa and the Asian countries. Because I refuse to argue with brick walls who would rather force history to fit their own prejudgements then attemp to seek true enlightenment.

so :P on you.

[sbp]

Originally posted by Kenas
I am wondering what historic books did you read. Where does it say that America won the cold war? There were no winners in that war (I guess you would not know). Korea is still divided in two parts, China is still communist state, and Cuba is still right next to the America and still communist.We am wondering what historic books did you not read. The fact is America was the leader of the free world during the Cold War. I agree most wars are dumb and wasteful.

Seems you forgot to mention Germany being unified and Eastern Europe being freed from the Soviet boot. Furthermore, change doesn't always happen overnight.


America lost Vietnam War, Russia Afghanistan war (And now America is getting the consequences).In wars there are battles won and lost. A few years ago, John McCain said on his trip to the economic desert of Vietnam that the wrong side won the war. Vietnam's lost is America's again. I count on two hands the people I know from Vietnam who became engineers here.

Your statement about America getting the consequences is a crock of crap.


Sad to tell you, but there were and still are more Russian spies in America then American spies in Russia.Its true. The CIA has been gutted for well over a decade.


America can't even create the space defence system (or whatever it is called, PRO?), until Russia approves it. Actually we can. :thumb:

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Kenas


So far I did not see ability to express anything from your side. More like disbility to insult.

I have dis bility. I've always had dis bility to insult. I also have dis bility to bend my fingers back really far, and dis bility to crack any joint in my body. Dat bility is really fun, but not as fun as dis bility I have to see irony fly over the head of dis guy here.

[sbp]

Originally posted by Kenas
There was a "pack" but both of them knew it was a BS pack.So that is why the Soviet Union was caught off guard by Operation Barbarossa. :o


As for dividing something. Did not America and USSR divided, Korea, Germany, Afghanistan, Vietnam? Would it have been better for the USSR to have total control of those countries? :thumbdown

Please take a look at how North Korea and South korea are today. Millions of people have starved in North Korea in the past few years. Take a look at how East Germany and West Germany were before they unified.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by sbp
So that is why the Soviet Union was caught off guard by Operation Barbarossa. :o

Would it have been better for the USSR to have total control of those countries? :thumbdown

Please take a look at how North Korea and South korea are today. Millions of people have starved in North Korea in the past few years. Take a look at how East Germany and West Germany were before they unified.


sbp don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it would be great if USSR get to control those countries. I am just giving the facts, I think it would probably be better if America were to win in that war, but all I am saying is that America did not win the cold war, and that is no winner in that war.

As for John McCain, he is one of a few politicians I respect greatly. And he is definitely right, and it is not that Vietnam or Soviet Union won that war, it is American that lost it.

As for the historic books I have read enough to make such statements and/or judgments. And not always do I believe the press and the books, my job is to analyze the information and understand it, what has really happened at the particular historic event.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Kenas



There was a "pact" but both of them knew it was a BS pact. As for dividing something. Did not America and USSR divided, Korea, Germany, Afghanistan, Vietnam?

Damn it, that's what i get for going to the gym Kenas gets to have all the fun.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LPM


I have dis bility. I've always had dis bility to insult. I also have dis bility to bend my fingers back really far, and dis bility to crack any joint in my body. Dat bility is really fun, but not as fun as dis bility I have to see irony fly over the head of dis guy here.

Woop strike three you are out of there...

LPM you have not provided any facts and just made fun of a person's spelling... shows the ammount of intelligence that you possess:rolleyes:

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui

America moved in at the end of the war and opened a second front they defeated no one. Any good historian will tell you that much
I guess any "good historian" of your choosing.... :rolleyes:

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by sbp
So that is why the Soviet Union was caught off guard by Operation Barbarossa. :o

Joseph Stalin believed that Germany would not invade the Soviet Union until Britain and France had been conquered. From Stalin's own calculations, this would not be until the summer of 1942. Some of his closest advisers began to argue that the summer of 1942. Some of his closest advisers began to argue that 1941 would be a much more likely date. The surrender of France in June, 1940, cast doubts on Stalin's calculations.

Stalin's response to France's defeat was to send Vyacheslav Molotov to Berlin for more discussions. Molotov was instructed to draw out these talks for as long as possible. Stalin knew that if Adolf Hitler did not attack the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941 he would have to wait until 1942. No one, not even someone as rash as Hitler, would invade the Soviet Union in the winter, he argued.

Germany was now in a strong negotiating position and m found it impossible to agree to Hitler's demands. As soon as talks broke-up, Hitler ordered his military leaders to prepare for Operation Barbarossa. The plan was for the invasion of the Soviet Union to start on the 15th May, 1941. Hitler believed that this would give the German Army enough time to take control of the country before the harsh Soviet winter set in.

Information on the proposed invasion came to Stalin from various sources. Richard Sorge, an agent working for the Red Orchestra in Japan, obtain information about the proposed invasion as early as December, 1940. Winston Churchill sent a personal message to Stalin in April, 1941, explaining how German troop movements suggested that they were about to attack the Soviet Union. However, Stalin was still suspicious of the British and thought that Churchill was trying to trick him into declaring war on Germany.

When the Red Orchestra prediction that Germany would invade in May, 1941, did not take place, Stalin became even more convinced that Germany had invaded Yugoslavia in April. Adolf Hitler had expected the Yugoslavs to surrender immediately but because of stubborn resistance, Hitler had to postpone Operation Barbarossa for a few weeks.

On 21st June, 1941, a German sergeant deserted to the Soviet forces. He informed them that the German Army would attack at dawn the following morning. Stalin was reluctant to believe the soldier's story and it was not until the German attack took place that he finally accepted that his attempts to avoid war with Germany until 1942 had failed.

The German forces, made up of three million men and 3,400 tanks, advanced in three groups. The north group headed for Leningrad, the centre group for Moscow and the southern forces into the Ukraine. Within six days, the German Army had captured Minsk. General Demitry Pavlov, the man responsible for defending Minsk, and two of his senior generals were recalled to Moscow and were shot for incompetence.

With the execution of Pavlov and his generals, Joseph Stalin made it clear that he would punish severely any commander whom he believed had let down the Soviet Union. In future, Soviet commanders thought twice about surrendering or retreating. Another factor in this was the way that the German Army massacred the people of Minsk. Terrified of both Stalin and Hitler, the Soviet people had no option but to fight until they were killed.

The first few months of the war was disastrous for the Soviet Union. The German northern forces surrounded Leningrad while the centre group made steady progress towards Moscow. German forces had also made deep inroads into the Ukraine. Kiev was under siege and Stalin's Chief of Staff, Georgi Zhukov, suggested that the troops defending the capital of the Ukraine should be withdrawn, thus enabling them to take up strong defensive positions further east. Stalin insisted that the troops stayed and by the time Kiev was taken, the casualties were extremely high. It was the most comprehensive defeat experienced by the red army in its history. However, the determined resistance put up at Kiev, had considerably delayed the attack on Moscow.

It was now September and winter was fast approaching. As German troops moved deeper into the Soviet Union, supply lines became longer. Joseph Stalin gave instructions that when forced to withdraw, the Red Army should destroy anything that could be of use to the enemy. The scorched earth policy and the formation of guerrilla units behind the German front lines, created severe problems for the German war machine which was trying to keep her three million soldiers supplied with the necessary food and ammunition.

By October, 1941, German troops were only fifteen miles outside Moscow. Orders were given for a mass evacuation of the city. In two weeks, two million people left Moscow and headed east. Stalin rallied morale by staying in Moscow. In a bomb-proof air raid shelter positioned under the Kremlin, Stalin, as Supreme Commander-in-Chief, directed the Soviet war effort. All major decisions made by his front-line commanders had to be cleared with Stalin first.

In November, 1941, the German Army launched a new offensive on Moscow. The Soviet army held out and the Germans were brought to a halt. Stalin called for a counter-attack. His commanders had doubts about this policy but Stalin insisted and on 4th December the Red Army attacked. The German army, demoralized by its recent lack of success, was taken by surprise and started to retreat. By January, the Germans had been pushed back 200 miles.

Stalin's military strategy was basically fairly simple. He believed it was vitally important to attack the enemy as often as possible. He was particularly keen to use new, fresh troops for these offensives. Stalin argued that countries in western Europe had been beaten by their own fear of German superiority. His main objective in using new troops in this way was to convince them that the German forces were not invincible. By pushing the German Army back at Moscow, Stalin proved to the Soviet troops that Blizkrieg could be counteracted; it also provided an important example to all troops throughout the world fighting the German war-machine.


SO what about operation Barbarossa?
:cool:
AS pointed out by Markel
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSbarbarossa.htm

[El Scorcho]

as far as those food packs go... thats just to make everyone feel that we care about the "innocent" afganistanians.

First of all, giving only 37000 people one meal for one day isnt going to end hunger for the refugees in afganistan.

Second, i have to agree with Burz... most of the people in afganistan do infact support the taliban... its the northern alliance that doesnt.

I dont exactly wanna go start killing civilians like burz:P ... but i do agree with him to some extent:D

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Markel

I guess any "good historian" of your choosing.... :rolleyes:

ummm dude, June of 1944 America opened the second front

so:rolleyes: back at ya

[sbp]

Originally posted by Burzhui


ummm dude, June of 1944 America opened the second front

so:rolleyes: back at ya Yeah the US and Britain didn't do anything before June 1944. :rolleyes:

[Butch]

Originally posted by Burzhui


As for the cold war... AMerica did not win the cold war, and if you tell me that they did you are a complete moron.
It is impossible to win a cold war unless a treaty is sighned where one side accepts defeat. No one, won the cold war.

I just got back to reading this thread, and was almost knocked off my chair by this absurd statement . . . Please, oh please tell me how a treaty could be signed ending the Cold War when one of the sides "fighting" all of a sudden CEASED to EXIST?? The Cold War was between the US and the USSR. ONE of those entities is no longer.

Let's look at this from a different perspective . . . Burr & Hamilton duel . . . Burr shoots Hamilton and Hamilton dies. But Burr didn't WIN, did he? I mean . . . Hamilton never actually SAID, "OK, you win" . . . Hamilton just CEASED to EXIST!

Hmmmmm . . . clearly there was no winner and no loser . . . :rolleyes:

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by sbp
Yeah the US and Britain didn't do anything before June 1944. :rolleyes:

What exactly are you refering to?

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by Butch


I just got back to reading this thread, and was almost knocked off my chair by this absurd statement . . . Please, oh please tell me how a treaty could be signed ending the Cold War when one of the sides "fighting" all of a sudden CEASED to EXIST?? The Cold War was between the US and the USSR. ONE of those entities is no longer.

Let's look at this from a different perspective . . . Burr & Hamilton duel . . . Burr shoots Hamilton and Hamilton dies. But Burr didn't WIN, did he? I mean . . . Hamilton never actually SAID, "OK, you win" . . . Hamilton just CEASED to EXIST!

Hmmmmm . . . clearly there was no winner and no loser . . . :rolleyes:
I'm with you, Butch. The flagrant and pungent refusal in this thread to adhere to generally accepted conceptions of "history", "fact", "logic" or "english" are both stunning and hilarious.

Listen, Burzhui, perhaps I should elucidate this for you and your buddy Kenas: mind-altering drugs are only good in moderation. Now, I was never brought up in the States, but I can smell stupidity as well as the next person. If your brain requires washing, then by all means, please, because yours smells to high heaven.

And just because your boys got their nuts handed to them in Afganistan does not mean you need to badmouth the people there. Seems to me you defend the Isrealis pretty vehemently; I don't really see much of a difference.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by Butch


I just got back to reading this thread, and was almost knocked off my chair by this absurd statement . . . Please, oh please tell me how a treaty could be signed ending the Cold War when one of the sides "fighting" all of a sudden CEASED to EXIST?? The Cold War was between the US and the USSR. ONE of those entities is no longer.

Let's look at this from a different perspective . . . Burr & Hamilton duel . . . Burr shoots Hamilton and Hamilton dies. But Burr didn't WIN, did he? I mean . . . Hamilton never actually SAID, "OK, you win" . . . Hamilton just CEASED to EXIST!

Hmmmmm . . . clearly there was no winner and no loser . . . :rolleyes:


I don't think the example you gave is any simular to the cold war, it sounds like you don't really understand the concepts of the cold war.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by pennypinch

I'm with you, Butch. The flagrant and pungent refusal in this thread to adhere to generally accepted conceptions of "history", "fact", "logic" or "english" are both stunning and hilarious.

Listen, Burzhui, perhaps I should elucidate this for you and your buddy Kenas: mind-altering drugs are only good in moderation. Now, I was never brought up in the States, but I can smell stupidity as well as the next person. If your brain requires washing, then by all means, please, because yours smells to high heaven.

And just because your boys got their nuts handed to them in Afganistan does not mean you need to badmouth the people there. Seems to me you defend the Isrealis pretty vehemently; I don't really see much of a difference.


Ahh the anti-semite of the threads, welcome!
Let me rephrase this a little.

And just because your boys got their nuts handed to them in Iraq (or whatever you are from) does not mean you need to badmouth the people there. Seems to me you defend the Palestinians pretty vehemently; I don't really see much of a difference.

How does that feel?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Butch


I just got back to reading this thread, and was almost knocked off my chair by this absurd statement . . . Please, oh please tell me how a treaty could be signed ending the Cold War when one of the sides "fighting" all of a sudden CEASED to EXIST?? The Cold War was between the US and the USSR. ONE of those entities is no longer.

Let's look at this from a different perspective . . . Burr & Hamilton duel . . . Burr shoots Hamilton and Hamilton dies. But Burr didn't WIN, did he? I mean . . . Hamilton never actually SAID, "OK, you win" . . . Hamilton just CEASED to EXIST!

Hmmmmm . . . clearly there was no winner and no loser . . . :rolleyes:

Ok now listen up... Reagan always considered Russia as an Evil Empire, he did so during Chernenko and during Brezhnev then Gorbachev came to power... and at that point Reagans thoughts have changed, Reagan even met with Gorbachev... they became good acquantances... and that is when AMerica and Russia found certain similarities. And then more and more, and then the cold war was over.
I am not denying that America's influence probably led to the fall of the soviet union... and the states broke appart, but the cold war really ended in the late 80's

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui

SO what about operation Barbarossa?
:cool:
You should at least site your source: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSbarbarossa.htm

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Kenas



Ahh the anti-semite of the threads, welcome!
Let me rephrase this a little.

And just because your boys got their nuts handed to them in Iraq (or whatever you are from) does not mean you need to badmouth the people there. Seems to me you defend the Palestinians pretty vehemently; I don't really see much of a difference.

How does tha feel?

I think she's German...

[sbp]

http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/iamwithstupid.gif

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Markel

You should at least site your source: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSbarbarossa.htm

hmm odd, i actually thought i did, but then again i never said that i said that, you don't see any my opinion or i think or anything with I in there right?

In any case my point still stands

[Burzhui]

make arrows going up and down i got you in a sandwhich

[zenbooty]

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15029

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Kenas



Ahh the anti-semite of the threads, welcome!


Yea i am pretty sure she's German HEIL pennypinch :wavey:

[sbp]

Originally posted by zenbooty
http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15029 Yes but Burzhui didn't enlightened us all then. :rolleyes:

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by sbp
Yes but Burzhui didn't enlightened us all then. :rolleyes:

SO did i enlighten you now? you still didn't answer my question by the way

[sbp]

Originally posted by Burzhui


SO did i enlighten you now? you still didn't answer my question by the way What question would that be? That calling pennypinch an anti-semite female German that says HEIL is a low blow?

[Burzhui]

Look up, say cheese... dude scroll up on the third page

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui

SO did i enlighten you now?
You've certainly enlightened us about something, but it has nothing to do with history.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Markel

You've certainly enlightened us about something, but it has nothing to do with history.

Wow so then you missed half of this thread

[sbp]

The new stupidzbu is in full force today.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by sbp
The new stupidzbu is in full force today.
First of all that's low, second of all don't become LPM, third of all i have provided enough historical facts, fourth of all you still haven't answered my question, sixth's of all in Butchs' logic i win.

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui
Wow so then you missed half of this thread
Not at all. This thread has been very enlightening regarding the way you "think".

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui

i have provided enough historical facts,
I thought Wednesday was "make up a fact" day.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Markel

I thought Wednesday was "make up a fact" day.
Hmmm so let's see then, do you have anything that would disprove the info that i have provided? if so i would love to see you post it.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Woop strike three you are out of there...

LPM you have not provided any facts and just made fun of a person's spelling... shows the ammount of intelligence that you possess:rolleyes:

I didn't know you got to decide what I get to do here? Funny, didn't see your name on my lack of paycheck.

The...ammount...of intelligence I have is very high indeed, because I refuse to play with you. Sorry, but your arguments become irrelevant when you cannot even say the damn things.

You cannot expect to convince anyone of anything if you cannot even make sense. I'm not sure why the two of you are failing to understand what is in fact a simple concept. Look like an idiot, and no one will give a rats behind what you have to say.

But I'll cut you a break. You want me to post a counter argument to your ravings? Fine.

http://www.afghanwar.spb.ru/index_e.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/vietnam/
http://cwihp.si.edu/default.htm


The main difference between these sites and your postings revolve around fact. They have facts, you do not. You haven't as of yet backed up your own claims, yet you call for others to do so. And disregard anything any body says that you don't like.

See, unlike some people, I ususally don't go through the effort of proving someone is wrong, when it is so obvious. I mean, I have a life, I'd rather not try to train a brick wall.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Burzhui

First of all that's low, second of all don't become LPM, third of all i have provided enough historical facts, fourth of all you still haven't answered my question, sixth's of all in Butchs' logic i win.

Esqueeze me? I don't remember calling you names. But continue being dismissive, it's fascinating.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LPM

You haven't as of yet backed up your own claims



Like what?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LPM


Esqueeze me? I don't remember calling you names. But continue being dismissive, it's fascinating.

Wait did i call you names? Ohh yes i'm sorry i called you LPM... hmm what the hell are you talking about dude?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LPM



http://www.afghanwar.spb.ru/index_e.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/vietnam/
http://cwihp.si.edu/default.htm


First link... what are you exactly trying to prove with this one
Second Link.. how does it disprove anything i said?
Third link... Vietnam???? i believe i said nothing about vietnam, except that America did not win that war... wanna disagree on that?
Fourth link... ok yea it's a cold war project, how does it disproove anything that i said?

I mean you could have just as well posted www.google.com
www.yahoo.com... those are random links disproving absolutely nothing

[Kenas]

Originally posted by LPM


I didn't know you got to decide what I get to do here? Funny, didn't see your name on my lack of paycheck.

The...ammount...of intelligence I have is very high indeed, because I refuse to play with you. Sorry, but your arguments become irrelevant when you cannot even say the damn things.

You cannot expect to convince anyone of anything if you cannot even make sense. I'm not sure why the two of you are failing to understand what is in fact a simple concept. Look like an idiot, and no one will give a rats behind what you have to say.

But I'll cut you a break. You want me to post a counter argument to your ravings? Fine.

http://www.afghanwar.spb.ru/index_e.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/vietnam/
http://cwihp.si.edu/default.htm


The main difference between these sites and your postings revolve around fact. They have facts, you do not. You haven't as of yet backed up your own claims, yet you call for others to do so. And disregard anything any body says that you don't like.

See, unlike some people, I ususally don't go through the effort of proving someone is wrong, when it is so obvious. I mean, I have a life, I'd rather not try to train a brick wall.


I can give you another link, www.historychannel.com and why don't you find me the facts to prove whatever you were saying.
Here you can find the history from American point of few, yet it says nothing about Soviet Union loosing the cold war what is says there is following:

"... In 1989 Gorbachev pulled stalemated Soviet forces from Afghanistan and announced that "the postwar period is over." After some hesitation, the George Bush administration in Washington agreed that the world had "clearly outgrown" the post-1945 superpower "clash." Both powers had actually begun losing control of the international arena in the late 1950s and, especially, the 1970s. Their competition in newly emerging areas wound down after both suffered disasters.

The ideological struggle also lessened as Gorbachev supported reforms through perestroika (economic restructuring), glasnost (openness), and more democracy within the communist bloc. George Bush meanwhile had to live, however reluctantly, with communist regimes in China, Cuba, and Angola..."

[Butch]

Originally posted by Kenas



I don't think the example you gave is any simular to the cold war, it sounds like you don't really understand the concepts of the cold war.

Please try to explain what it is exactly that I do not "understand" . . . I'd be VERY interested to hear what you have to say . . .


Originally posted by Burzhui


Ok now listen up... Reagan always considered Russia as an Evil Empire, he did so during Chernenko and during Brezhnev then Gorbachev came to power... and at that point Reagans thoughts have changed, Reagan even met with Gorbachev... they became good acquantances... and that is when AMerica and Russia found certain similarities. And then more and more, and then the cold war was over.
I am not denying that America's influence probably led to the fall of the soviet union... and the states broke appart, but the cold war really ended in the late 80's


Let me ask you something . . . do you REALLY think it was that Reagan's opinions changed about the Soviet Union?? No, what changed was that Gorby was a relatively enlightened leader who understood that the USSR could not survive. What you need to understand is that the Cold War was not a war between people . . . if it were that simple, the Cold War would have ended LONG before 1991 . . . no, it was a war between ideologies . . . and Gorby understood that the ideology espoused by the hard liners in his government could not survive. It could not survive BECAUSE of the economic implications. The USSR collapsed from it's own weight.

It was not a choice of the USSR that it would fall. However, it WAS a choice of Gorby to accelerate the process because he knew that in the long run, it was better for the nation to just get it over with.

[LPMiller]

3 times I've tried to respond, 3 times I get an error message. dammit.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by Butch


Please try to explain what it is exactly that I do not "understand" . . . I'd be VERY interested to hear what you have to say . . .



Let me ask you something . . . do you REALLY think it was that Reagan's opinions changed about the Soviet Union?? No, what changed was that Gorby was a relatively enlightened leader who understood that the USSR could not survive. What you need to understand is that the Cold War was not a war between people . . . if it were that simple, the Cold War would have ended LONG before 1991 . . . no, it was a war between ideologies . . . and Gorby understood that the ideology espoused by the hard liners in his government could not survive. It could not survive BECAUSE of the economic implications. The USSR collapsed from it's own weight.

It was not a choice of the USSR that it would fall. However, it WAS a choice of Gorby to accelerate the process because he knew that in the long run, it was better for the nation to just get it over with.


Cold war is not physical war between countries or people, so your example is irrelative. It is a conflict "between the United States and the Soviet Union since World War II. Its roots go back to the 1890s" You should also understand that the idea of Soviet economy are totaly different then capitalists ideas. Socialist’s theories can only work for small places, not a huge country. So the triangle the soviets had had to collapse sooner or later.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by LPM
3 times I've tried to respond, 3 times I get an error message. dammit.

you know why??? cause the system knows that it's you and is trying to stop you.... and look now you responded... and yet said nothing of importance :confused: just like the previous posts

[southernbelle]

One of the more pleasant aspects of aging is the realization that you don't have to say every d*mn thing that comes into your mind. Hard to believe, I know, but quite a few of us are *not* impressed by your recitation of your interpretation of history.

The whole idea that "no one gave a fu*k about japan... except for America?!??" I had to reread several times before I determined that you were actually serious. Guys, please at least give tacit attempt to understand the ramifications of what you are saying before you spout off. Most of the readers have a much broader, diverse experience than your limited history - and do not appreciate some kids casually stomping on their life lessons.

I find your attitude and casual dismissal of facts offensive. So offensive, I am considering finding other forums to hang out in. It is not much fun to read a forum that has been overrun by only a few people, and those who do not attempt to avoid causing pain to others.

Your statements are offensive and divisive, and do not belong here. Please, shut up, play nice, or go play somewhere else.

(oh, and leave LPM alone! he is a god)

[Jenny]

southernbelle, please don't leave! :( Ignore Burzhui & Kenas. I have learned that I don't like either one of them, so I have just been ignoring them. The only reason I read this one is because someone messaged me the link and said read this crap they keep posting up. They will get theirs...if they keep it up, I doubt GAM will let them stay. We'd much rather you stay than them, so please don't leave! We love ya here! :)

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by southernbelle
One of the more pleasant aspects of aging is the realization that you don't have to say every d*mn thing that comes into your mind. Hard to believe, I know, but quite a few of us are *not* impressed by your recitation of your interpretation of history.

The whole idea that "no one gave a fu*k about japan... except for America?!??" I had to reread several times before I determined that you were actually serious. Guys, please at least give tacit attempt to understand the ramifications of what you are saying before you spout off. Most of the readers have a much broader, diverse experience than your limited history - and do not appreciate some kids casually stomping on their life lessons.

I find your attitude and casual dismissal of facts offensive. So offensive, I am considering finding other forums to hang out in. It is not much fun to read a forum that has been overrun by only a few people, and those who do not attempt to avoid causing pain to others.

Your statements are offensive and divisive, and do not belong here. Please, shut up, play nice, or go play somewhere else.

(oh, and leave LPM alone! he is a god)

you I like.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by LPM


you I like.

i was just about to say the same thing. southernbelle is intelligent... you're a keeper, girl!

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by southernbelle
One of the more pleasant aspects of aging is the realization that you don't have to say every d*mn thing that comes into your mind. Hard to believe, I know, but quite a few of us are *not* impressed by your recitation of your interpretation of history.

The whole idea that "no one gave a fu*k about japan... except for America?!??" I had to reread several times before I determined that you were actually serious. Guys, please at least give tacit attempt to understand the ramifications of what you are saying before you spout off. Most of the readers have a much broader, diverse experience than your limited history - and do not appreciate some kids casually stomping on their life lessons.

I find your attitude and casual dismissal of facts offensive. So offensive, I am considering finding other forums to hang out in. It is not much fun to read a forum that has been overrun by only a few people, and those who do not attempt to avoid causing pain to others.

Your statements are offensive and divisive, and do not belong here. Please, shut up, play nice, or go play somewhere else.

(oh, and leave LPM alone! he is a god)

Well i find your ignorance offensive, and LPM is god????:confused:
In any case you took what maybe a year of history throughout your whole life right, i am talking about overall not just 2 classes in college? That is hardly your life's lessons. It is not my interpretation of history America had very little bussiness in WW2, and did not win or lose that war and yet somehow they still think that they won? If you still have that opinion, then you did not take any history outside of high school.

[Markel]

Originally posted by Burzhui
If you still have that opinion, then you did not take any history outside of high school.
Wrong.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Jenny
southernbelle, please don't leave! :( Ignore Burzhui & Kenas. I have learned that I don't like either one of them, so I have just been ignoring them. The only reason I read this one is because someone messaged me the link and said read this crap they keep posting up. They will get theirs...if they keep it up, I doubt GAM will let them stay. We'd much rather you stay than them, so please don't leave! We love ya here! :)

Jenny why would GAM not let us stay? Welcome to a conversation:
con·ver·sa·tion (knvr-sshn)
n.

The spoken exchange of thoughts, opinions, and feelings; talk.
An instance of this: held a long conversation on the subject.

Do i deserve to get thrown out on this basis? I did not call anbody a moron, but i've been called that, i have not threatened bodily harm on anyone, although i was threatened.
So how do i deserve to get banned?

Nu Passaran
:cool:

[southernbelle]

First, LPM is A god, not THE God, ok? Meant in jest, intended to show support to LPM.

I am a history major, with emphasis on 1900 to the present. I will not debate the finer or even broader points of history with someone who chooses to accept only one view, and discards all those that contradict him. Even if I were not, I would still carry the same opinion about your inflammatory rhetoric.

The term "life history" (to me) means those experiences which make up your life, and those cannot be taught in a book. Like having family and friends who served. Like having business relationships in Russia. "Walking the walk", in other words. World War 2 means a lot more to some that just words in a book - your juvenile characterizations are offensive to me. One of the most fascinating aspects of studying history has to be the application of "real life" experiences to recorded opinions.

Please realize that the words you throw so casually ARE someone's life lessons, and should be respected and valued. Statements of a belittling nature serve only to antagonize and provoke.

Conversations are great, and one of the unique attractions for forums such as this. I am just calling you on what I see as abusive behavior that does not add value. Your "ignorance" comment is a prime example - unnecessary and intended to hurt.

Thanks Jenny, LPM and Welfare for the kind words........ you guys and gals are the greatest.

[pennypinch]

1) I am male.

2) I'm Asian, and not German.

3) I'm certainly not anti-Semitic.

4) If you got that from the "offending" post, then you both are quite a bit more brainless than I had given you credit for. Kenas's totally nonsensical post that followed is clear testament to that.

5) The GAM will not throw these two out, unless he or she is a reactionary fool. These two are flagrantly moronic, with no clear connection to the reality most of the rest of us recognize, but that isn't grounds to boot them. Sure, they're flaming racists. It's uproarious that they completely mis-identify racism where there is none. Sad, sad, sad. I think it's a pathetic commentary on the lower tiers of American post-secondary education that they're so hard up for tuition as to admit one of these two.

I say let them stay. It's kind of fun mingling with the untouchable caste of the cerebrally impoverished.

[Markel]

Today's "Quote of the Day" on the excite portal seems appropriate:

"The world is divided into people who think they are right." - Anonymous.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by pennypinch
1) I am male.

2) I'm Asian, and not German.


I could have sworn that you were a she and German, i thought you said that in one of the posts a couple of months ago.

Untouchable you say??? god forbid my shadow touches you, what are you gonna do stone me?

[Kenas]

Originally posted by southernbelle
First, LPM is A god, not THE God, ok? Meant in jest, intended to show support to LPM.

I am a history major, with emphasis on 1900 to the present. I will not debate the finer or even broader points of history with someone who chooses to accept only one view, and discards all those that contradict him. Even if I were not, I would still carry the same opinion about your inflammatory rhetoric.

The term "life history" (to me) means those experiences which make up your life, and those cannot be taught in a book. Like having family and friends who served. Like having business relationships in Russia. "Walking the walk", in other words. World War 2 means a lot more to some that just words in a book - your juvenile characterizations are offensive to me. One of the most fascinating aspects of studying history has to be the application of "real life" experiences to recorded opinions.

Please realize that the words you throw so casually ARE someone's life lessons, and should be respected and valued. Statements of a belittling nature serve only to antagonize and provoke.

Conversations are great, and one of the unique attractions for forums such as this. I am just calling you on what I see as abusive behavior that does not add value. Your "ignorance" comment is a prime example - unnecessary and intended to hurt.

Thanks Jenny, LPM and Welfare for the kind words........ you guys and gals are the greatest.


History major you say? Do you expect me to believe that? On G|A I can be god (oh no that LPM job). How about giving some historic facts to this conversation? Here I only heard accusations of being wrong, stupid, moronic and something else, and not once I have been proven that I am wrong in something. How about giving prove, you know our life is like math, you have a problem, you need to prove something and/or find solution(s). You need to prove everything in this life, except for a few axioms. Now history cannot be axiom unless you have experience it. Neither is accusation of somebody being stupid (or that is a pre-med major or a doctor among as well, or only a god and historian?).
As for pennypinch, I referred to our previous conversations about Middle East, I remember very well how anti-Semitic you acted.

[Markel]

Originally posted by Kenas

History major you say? Do you expect me to believe that?
I find it much easier to believe than a lot of other things I've been reading around here.

[topane]

Originally posted by Kenas
I remember very well how anti-Semitic you acted. Just because someone disagrees with a Jewish point of view doesn't make him/her an anti-Semite.

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by topane
Just because someone disagrees with a Jewish point of view doesn't make him/her an anti-Semite.

Dammit, you beat me to it!

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by topane
Just because someone disagrees with a Jewish point of view doesn't make him/her an anti-Semite.

You don't have to be called a kike to know that the person is an anti-semite

[topane]

:rolleyes:

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by Burzhui


You don't have to be called a kike to know that the person is an anti-semite And how do you know I'm an Anti-semite. Let him answer, this should be a barrel of laughs.

There's comedy, there's high comedy, there's trancendant comedy, then there's this BS. Keep it flowing, bowel-brain.

[Kenas]

Originally posted by pennypinch
And how do you know I'm an Anti-semite. Let him answer, this should be a barrel of laughs.

There's comedy, there's high comedy, there's trancendant comedy, then there's this BS. Keep it flowing, bowel-brain.

Hmm here laugh all you want this is your quote:

"first-generation immigrants consistently make and have more than the median or mean in their given geographic cohort. It's the second coming of Jewish immigrants, except with more money to start."

and


"If I remember my anti-semetic propaganda right, I believe Israel (sorry 'bout that earlier!) pays only a fraction of what is loaned to it. Am I wrong?

Not to mention that fact that they're constantly spying on us. Name me another country that receives that level of foreign aid from us that's been caught on numerous occasions doing so?

You make it sound like our aid to Israel is a money-making proposition. It isn't.

[Edited by pennypinch on 04-25-2001 at 11:02 AM]"


Or another one of his"

" Or be like a real Israeli national and get the US government to pay for the whole shot, then have a bunch of people bitch and moan that they aren't paying for enough people to go."

[topane]

"first-generation immigrants consistently make and have more than the median or mean in their given geographic cohort. It's the second coming of Jewish immigrants, except with more money to start." Hmmm...sounds like he's saying Jews make a little more cash. Yep. Definitely anti-Semetic.


"If I remember my anti-semetic propaganda right,<SNIP>
Heh. Looks like sarcasm to me.

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by topane
Hmmm...sounds like he's saying Jews make a little more cash. Yep. Definitely anti-Semetic.

Heh. Looks like sarcasm to me.

You are quick on the trigger! Dang it, doing my work for me.

This is a classic case of subtraction by addition. By continueing your reign of confusion, you two are only more clearly illustrating that you know and understand almost nothing. Keep it going, and you'll have completely discredited yourselves! Yay!

[Kenas]

Originally posted by pennypinch


You are quick on the trigger! Dang it, doing my work for me.

This is a classic case of subtraction by addition. By continueing your reign of confusion, you two are only more clearly illustrating that you know and understand almost nothing. Keep it going, and you'll have completely discredited yourselves! Yay!

Reading the whole thread (started by you), it did not sound like sarcasm to me.

[topane]

EDIT: I've deleted this because it was said out of anger and could be inflammatory, but I was simply trying to prove a point.

[eSDee]

umm forget it go for it

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by Kenas


Reading the whole thread (started by you), it did not sound like sarcasm to me.

Frankly, from the reading comprehension skills you've exhibited, you could read for days and not recognize sarcasm if it bit you in the ass.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by pennypinch


Frankly, from the reading comprehension skills you've exhibited, you could read for days and not recognize sarcasm if it bit you in the ass.

If i was LPM i'd say something like, well at least he has an ass... but i'm not him, and if you haven't noticed after EsDeeLoco said that this is getting out of hand nobody responded for quite a while... there is a reason for that:rolleyes:

[Kenas]

Originally posted by pennypinch


Frankly, from the reading comprehension skills you've exhibited, you could read for days and not recognize sarcasm if it bit you in the ass.

Speaking of asses, sounds to me your sarcasm comes from one. A very stinky one.
And I am sorry about my comprehension skills, since unlike some, I prove my words with sources, I can only comprehend proven facts (sorry I like math too much).

[pennypinch]

Originally posted by Kenas


Speaking of asses, sounds to me your sarcasm comes from one. A very stinky one.
Zing!