So extremists you say...

[Burzhui]

My brother goes to a private school and there is this muslim kid and this kid asked this girl if he can get her number, cause the girl is smart and he needs some help with some math homework or something along those lines... so my bro's best friend goes like, hey why'd you get her number, do you like her, do you want to date her? (8th grade mind you). So he is like no, my religion prohibits me to date Jews, so my bro's friend is like so what else does your religion say, and he is like that jews are infidels and should be annihilated. ANd my bro and his friend are like standing there like in awe, and they are like why? so the kid goes like, because it is allah's will and i will go to heaven if i kill Jews.


SO obviously it went around the school and all the parents are appauled but the problem is obviously this kid has been brainwashed at the Mosque and by his parents... however apparently this is not the first incident, there are 2 of his brother and a sister, and there was a similar incident with one of them... not sure which one.

How F*cked up is that?

[Burzhui]

Yea, how does one deal with this ****.. with everything that has been happening lately i want to go and choke his little neck with a door, then move on to his brothers and sister... then move on to the parents and then take a rest, you know drink some juice watch some TV, then continue with the whole wack, smack, and kill

[Memo]

That's some F'd up stuff..and people say this isn't a "Race war." I'll keep my comments to myself as to not agitate the G|A Muslims ;)

[Burzhui]

I dunno man how is one supposed to react to something like this???

[aglio412]

Originally posted by Burzhui
I dunno man how is one supposed to react to something like this???

you don't react to it...that's the root of the problems with race and racial violence...irrational reactions. yes, he believes what he believes...it's what he was taught. he has not committed any acts of violence that you have proof of...right? until then you have to respect his first ammendment rights...sounds to me that he simply stated what he thought was right...whether you agree with it or not...he didn't make any threats towards you (from what you said in the post)...

so there's nothing you can do...unless there's a threat or an act of violence, then you call the cops. otherwise, reacting will do nothing but create a potentially violent or rights infringing situation.

don't get me wrong here...i don't condone or support the things this person said. i think religion is something that gets very distorted...look at the crusades...the christinization of the american indians...or bin laden-esque muslims...it's sad...so very sad. the core of most religions, including islam, is peace and love, a few crazy people...koresh, bin laden, etc...promote a distorted and irrational view of the fundamentals of what can be a beatiful thing.

all in all...don't be stupid...everyone is entitled to their opinions...it's when these opinions pose a potential for danger or threatening situations, that's when you notify the proper authorities.

[Nanotech9]

Got|InsaneAsylum?

[Memo]

Well, saying that someone should die is sort of an intention of violence. You can't just wait and then call the cops cause well then, you're sort of dead. And if the connection between this guy and the KKK is ok then, in a way, it would be like he is evil. Let's just hope kids like this grow up and learn, remember , he's only an 8th grader. It's when you're grown and still have that 8th grade mindstate that causes problems.

[Burzhui]

Got|Columbine?

[DoPeY5007]

you also got to remember that it may not be the kids fault that he/she thinks the way they do, it is the parents that brainwash them to think that way...


it is still sad though

[Windsor]

What the? Where does it say that he will go to heaven if he kills a jew? Is this IN their holy book? Not good, I say.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Windsor
What the? Where does it say that he will go to heaven if he kills a jew? Is this IN their holy book? Not good, I say.

it doesn't really say kill the jews, they just hate us, but it does say kill the infidels and also, Convert the infidels for they are not on the right path. Then 3 methods of conversion are given, and if all else fails you can kill them because if they don't accept Allah then they don't deserve to live

[Memo]

Woah Woah Burzhui, does it REALLY say that? That's pretty rough. Have you actually read the thing?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by UT Memo
Woah Woah Burzhui, does it REALLY say that? That's pretty rough. Have you actually read the thing?
yea i am actually currently in the process of rereading it... it sucks because it is all in how you interpret it, because you know there are different interpretations of the Quaran... and the muslims say that you can not understand it unless you read it in it's original written form.... however all the translated forms have the part about converting and killing infidels

[aglio412]

Originally posted by Burzhui


it doesn't really say kill the jews, they just hate us, but it does say kill the infidels and also, Convert the infidels for they are not on the right path. Then 3 methods of conversion are given, and if all else fails you can kill them because if they don't accept Allah then they don't deserve to live

something you need to remember though is that the crusades were a product of christians believing that it was their duty to destroy the infidel nonchristians. it's the extremists that take tales from the bible or the quaran and focus on the sections that describe other religions as being misguided or as infidels and exaggerate this into their own quest to rid the planet of nonbelievers.

i'm no theologian...but i'm assuming that most holy books outline the reasons that nonbelievers should be converted. now, i don't know much about judaism...and it's rooted in ethnicity so i'm guessing its outlook on converting nonbelievers differs in this respect, but all in all...every religion is going to think it's the right religion...or i mean face it...they wouldn't exist, right?

religion by definition gives its believers the comfort of 'knowing' that they are the chosen righteous ones that if they adhere to the higher power's commands will go onto an afterlife.

it's when these commands get distorted by extremists that creates the trouble we're seeing right now.

[BrewMaster]

it's fuked up that kids are being taught such lies, I agree. But Burzhui, I think it's fair to say that you try to paint Arabs and Muslims (two very diferent things) as the bad guys all the time. You neglect all the other sh*t wrong with this world. I'm calling you on it. How come you never mention the fuked up sh*t that Jews do huh? By no means am I saying that what people do to Jews is right, nor is hte brainwashing right and the distortion of Islam, but I think if you want to play the resident muckraker for G|A, you'd better do it fairly. I got an article you can respond to.

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20010904/3599125s.htm

THis artilce shows that there is fuked up sh*t in all cultures and there are extremists in all cultures who make our world a veritable hell. They are not all Muslim. They are not all Christian. THey are not all Jewish. They are a mix of fuked up people who claim a religion but don't follow it. Try to remember that and not paint a whole religion or culture as the enemy. There's enough of that on the local news.

[johnnymk]

O believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find firmness in you. (Sura:9, Ayat:123)

Fight those who believe not… even if they be People of the Book until they have willing agreed to pay the tribute in recognition of their submissive state. (Sura:9, Ayat:29)

You will be called to fight a mighty nation; fight them until they embrace Islam. (Sura:48, Ayat:16)

Then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them. And seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them, in every stratagem (of war). (Sura:9, Ayat:5)

[sbp]

Originally posted by Burzhui
My brother goes to a private school and there is this muslim kid and this kid asked this girl if he can get her number, cause the girl is smart and he needs some help with some math homework or something along those lines... so my bro's best friend goes like, hey why'd you get her number, do you like her, do you want to date her? (8th grade mind you). So he is like no, my religion prohibits me to date Jews, so my bro's friend is like so what else does your religion say, and he is like that jews are infidels and should be annihilated. ANd my bro and his friend are like standing there like in awe, and they are like why? so the kid goes like, because it is allah's will and i will go to heaven if i kill Jews.


SO obviously it went around the school and all the parents are appauled but the problem is obviously this kid has been brainwashed at the Mosque and by his parents... however apparently this is not the first incident, there are 2 of his brother and a sister, and there was a similar incident with one of them... not sure which one.

How F*cked up is that? Another terrorist to be. And this one homegrown. :o :disa:

[mojo]

so, let me get this straight.....a friend of your brother did this interview thing....

the interview starts like an interrogation....

a bunch of stuff is said that is interpreted in a way that coincides with the fears of the nation....

ok, i believe it. ya, that's what happened. oh ya, and wasn't his mother the poor lady that got the expensive hairdo that she just kept spraying with hairspray and eventually became a rat's nest?

[sbp]

Muslim Students Weigh Questions Of Allegiance
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63884-2001Oct15.html

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by mojorisin
so, let me get this straight.....a friend of your brother did this interview thing....

the interview starts like an interrogation....

a bunch of stuff is said that is interpreted in a way that coincides with the fears of the nation....

ok, i believe it. ya, that's what happened. oh ya, and wasn't his mother the poor lady that got the expensive hairdo that she just kept spraying with hairspray and eventually became a rat's nest?

mojo gettin straight to the heart of the matter... excellent point. i mean, the kid did get her phone number.

but there are kids out there that are taught awful things about others. the best you can do is make it clear that you think they are wrong, and set a good example for your own kids. it's like having a couple of klansmen's kids in your school... all you can really do is damage control.

[topane]

It's not all bad, johnnymk:

"Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabaeans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow." (Q. 2:62)

"Thou wilt find the nearest of them in love to the believers [Muslims] are those who say 'We are Christians'" (Q. 5:82)

Like any other religious text, ppl will use certain parts to convince others to follow them.

[aglio412]

Originally posted by topane
It's not all bad, johnnymk:

"Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabaeans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow." (Q. 2:62)

"Thou wilt find the nearest of them in love to the believers [Muslims] are those who say 'We are Christians'" (Q. 5:82)

Like any other religious text, ppl will use certain parts to convince others to follow them.

thanky ou topane...i was just getting ready to dig through the bible or the quaran to make the point that you can take elements of both and make the same arguments.

there are tales in the bible concerning war and conversion of nonbelievers...

man, i hate it when someone takes a sentence from a holy book and totally uses it in another context.

it's like the movie poster for josie and the pussycats saying "higher level than the matrix"

when the real quote is:

"when it comes to sucking this film hit a higher level than the matrix"

[ducking...i'm gonna get killed for making that statement]

but i think y'all know what i'm getting at here

[Speedfreak]

Like, are you from the valley? :D


Anyways.... ya that is really said to have people living here teaching their kids what is taught by terrorists.

[aglio412]

Originally posted by Speedfreak
Like, are you from the valley? :D


like 8 times...like 8 times...hehehehe

[Markel]

Hatred sucks. :(

[Grimm]

The really f*ked up part is that this kid expects her to help him with his homework!
Basicaly he is saying that it is ok for him to use her for help then kill her for being a Jew. How messed up can you be?

[BrewMaster]

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20010904/3599125s.htm

No responseese to this article yet. I know it's long but it's a good article and worth reading. It shows the negatives of both sides.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by aglio412

i'm no theologian...but i'm assuming that most holy books outline the reasons that nonbelievers should be converted. now, i don't know much about judaism...and it's rooted in ethnicity so i'm guessing its outlook on converting nonbelievers differs in this respect, but all in all...every religion is going to think it's the right religion...or i mean face it...they wouldn't exist, right?

religion by definition gives its believers the comfort of 'knowing' that they are the chosen righteous ones that if they adhere to the higher power's commands will go onto an afterlife.



In Judaism you will not find anything that says convert the people.... Judaism can only be accepted if one wants to accept it, it can not be imposed... so if you want tto learn you are welcome, but Jews don't go destroying other people because of their religion... we know we are the chosen ones:hihi:

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by mojorisin
so, let me get this straight.....a friend of your brother did this interview thing....

the interview starts like an interrogation....

a bunch of stuff is said that is interpreted in a way that coincides with the fears of the nation....

ok, i believe it. ya, that's what happened. oh ya, and wasn't his mother the poor lady that got the expensive hairdo that she just kept spraying with hairspray and eventually became a rat's nest?

Dude, this is the most hatefull things that this kid said by the end, half the class was standing there, there is an urgent PTA and staff meeting today because of this. Half the class is was tramautized because of this... some girls started crying... it was totally unprovoked... and it wasn't an interegation... my bro's friend just mockingly asked if he wants to date that shick... it's 8th grade for crying out loud


Originally posted by Grimm
The really f*ked up part is that this kid expects her to help him with his homework!
Basicaly he is saying that it is ok for him to use her for help then kill her for being a Jew. How messed up can you be?

She got scared and din't give him her number

[Two Cents]

Originally posted by aglio412


thanky ou topane...i was just getting ready to dig through the bible or the quaran to make the point that you can take elements of both and make the same arguments.

there are tales in the bible concerning war and conversion of nonbelievers...

man, i hate it when someone takes a sentence from a holy book and totally uses it in another context.

it's like the movie poster for josie and the pussycats saying "higher level than the matrix"

when the real quote is:

"when it comes to sucking this film hit a higher level than the matrix"

[ducking...i'm gonna get killed for making that statement]

but i think y'all know what i'm getting at here

How does that fact make it any better? It basically says Muslims should view Christians as brothers because they believe in one god also, but they can "slay" everyone else. Same message, kill everyone who does not believe as you do.

[aglio412]

Originally posted by Two Cents


How does that fact make it any better? It basically says Muslims should view Christians as brothers because they believe in one god also, but they can "slay" everyone else. Same message, kill everyone who does not believe as you do.

are we reading the same thread here?

i was saying the extremist, the radicals, the people who take the holy books out of context are the ones going against the true will of their god. islam, just like buddhism, just like catholicism, just like christianity, just like hinduism...is based on a set of core beliefs...and these core beliefs usually encompass some set of laws describing people as 'brothers' and the nonbelievers as in need to convert...

i never said muslims should see christians as brothers and kill everyone else...i said a normal muslim sees everyone as brothers...and SLAYS NOBODY...just as a normal jew would, just as a normal catholic would...blah blah blah

it's the basketcase fundamentalist extremists that every religion has that distorts the true intentions of the religion.

you should pay more attention to what's being said before replying...or i apologize if i was unclear in my message. was i?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by BrewMaster
it's fuked up that kids are being taught such lies, I agree. But [B]

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20010904/3599125s.htm



well what do you expect????

Published: 8/17/01 Author: George Will
WASHINGTON--Among reasonable people, who are now impervious to the diplomats' anesthetizing imbecilities about ``preserving'' the Middle East ``peace process,'' there is a crystallizing consensus: Israel needs a short war and a high wall. To understand the context of such thinking, consider what USA Today's Jack Kelley saw at the Aug. 9 terrorist bombing that killed 15 at the Jerusalem pizza restaurant. Kelley was 30 yards away when the terrorist detonated a bomb packed with nails: ``The blast ... sent flesh flying onto second-story balconies a block away. Three men were blown 30 feet; their heads, separated from their bodies by the blast, rolled down the glass-strewn street. ... One woman had at least six nails embedded in her neck. Another had a nail in her left eye. Two men, one with a six-inch piece of glass in his right temple ... tried to walk away. ... A man groaned.

... His legs were blown off. Blood poured from his torso. ... A 3-year old girl, her face covered with glass, walked among the bodies calling her mother's name. ... The mother ... was dead. ... One rabbi found a small hand against a white Subaru parked outside the restaurant.''

As with the June bombing that killed 21 at a Tel Aviv disco, children were not collateral victims--they were the targets. Abdallah al-Shami, a senior official of Islamic Jihad, celebrated ``this successful operation'' against ``pigs and monkeys.'' That is a familiar rhetorical trope among those whom the calamitous Oslo ``peace process'' cast in the role of Israel's ``partners for peace.'' In yet another of the constant violations of the Oslo requirement to stop anti-Jewish incitements, this was a recent broadcast from the moral cesspool that is the official television station of Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority: ``All weapons must be aimed at the Jews ... whom the Koran describes as monkeys and pigs. ... We will enter Jerusalem as conquerors. ... Blessings to he who shot a bullet into the head of a Jew.''

I mean give me a break, have you been there lately??? Ask kenas he was there in August.
I couldn't give a rats ass about palestinians, arabs, muslims, i just did not care about them, however after a spent a month in Israel, living just up the stairs from the western/wailing wall (not in some fancy shmancy hotel) my feelings towards all of them changed radically. I saw what was happening, i saw how the people are treated, i saw how the arabs are... and trust me i did not expirience any fuzzy or warm feelings towards them.

That storyBrew is pretty one sided... makes the poor palestinians seem like the victims... very tipical by the way

[topane]

Does Islam allow the taking of hostages, suicide, or terrorist attacks? (http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter14.htm)

[Burzhui]

However, there is a unique category of suicide called "self-martyrdom" which applied in a narrow range of circumstances in combat, and which is believed to guarantee the believer immediate entry into Paradise.

[aglio412]

Originally posted by topane
Does Islam allow the taking of hostages, suicide, or terrorist attacks? (http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter14.htm)

yet again topane...great input

i think i'm gonna back away from this discussion, it's becoming very lopsided. i'm trying to express my interpretation of religion and how it is taken out of context in situations like the ones described. that's all...read topane's link...i'm just trying to say, that there are radical groups, extremists, etc...that cause alot of trouble and tarnish the name of an otherwise beautiful religion.

then we get statements like this...




I couldn't give a rats ass about palestinians, arabs, muslims, i just did not care about them

i saw how the arabs are...



i'm not going to contribute to something that is obviously going to saturated with one sided, closed minded arguments.

burzhui...you live your life thinking all arabs are evil...hell live your life thinking all arabs are muslim...you obviously have no tolerance for anyone other than those that you have judged to be worthy. it's just sad...yeah the sept 11th events were horrible...quite possibly, the most horrible thing to ever happen on american soil...but the quran does NOT say that you should fly planes into buildings so you can go to heaven. and therefore Muslims should not be judged based on the actions of Bin Laden's extremists.

what's next, are you going to burn down a 7-11? how about harrass some indian people...because i doubt that you could tell 'em apart from an afghani. well since all middle easterners are islamic and inherently evil, it doesn't matter anyway...right burzhui?

[topane]

Originally posted by aglio412
i think i'm gonna back away from this discussion, it's becoming very lopsided. i'm trying to express my interpretation of religion and how it is taken out of context in situations like the ones described. that's all...That's all I'm trying to say too. I just hate when ppl lump another group (religious, national, ethnic) into all "bad" or "good". There are bad ones in every group which ruin it for everyone else. Besides, did we go after white Christians once we caught McVeigh?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by aglio412

what's next, are you going to burn down a 7-11? how about harrass some indian people...because i doubt that you could tell 'em apart from an afghani. well since all middle easterners are islamic and inherently evil, it doesn't matter anyway...right burzhui?


I'm not like that, i can tell them appart, and i never insite violence against those that did nothing to provoke it.... now if those people went outside and started partying in the streets like those bastards in Brooklyn, i would go midieval on their a$$es.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by topane
That's all I'm trying to say too. I just hate when ppl lump another group (religious, national, ethnic) into all "bad" or "good". There are bad ones in every group which ruin it for everyone else. Besides, did we go after white Christians once we caught McVeigh?

That is exactly why i hate everyone equally. :D

[aglio412]

Originally posted by Burzhui


That is exactly why i hate everyone equally. :D

what a reassuring outlook...

so instead of hating one group of people you hate everyone...and to think i was optimistic about this world's future...thought tolerance was increasing with every year that went by, every new generation a little more understanding and loving...guess i was wrong.

it's sad really...the 9/11 incidents...and the present incidents related to it...could have been a time for people to come together and realize that it's not about race or religion...it's about terrorism and those few bad eggs that ruin it for everyone else. but no, apparently it is and it will always be about race and religion...it's easier for the stupid and ignorant people in this world to hate a race/religion than it is to be angry that some misguided fellow humans have strayed away from a moral path and have infringed the rights of innocent people.

and to make my point a little more understandable for those ignorant and uneducated folks out there...aglio is saying:

easy for you to hate someone who looks like they are a terrorist.
hard for you to take the time to understand the ethnicity.
therefore lump them togehter and hate them all...

good move

you've just set us back thousands of years.

and i may sound like i'm kissing topane's ass...but you have a way of completing my thoughts...the mcveigh reference, very on point.


arrrrgh...i can't let this go...i want to walk away from this thread...i just can't sit back and read this crap and not speak my mind.

[Two Cents]

Originally posted by aglio412


are we reading the same thread here?

i was saying the extremist, the radicals, the people who take the holy books out of context are the ones going against the true will of their god. islam, just like buddhism, just like catholicism, just like christianity, just like hinduism...is based on a set of core beliefs...and these core beliefs usually encompass some set of laws describing people as 'brothers' and the nonbelievers as in need to convert...

i never said muslims should see christians as brothers and kill everyone else...i said a normal muslim sees everyone as brothers...and SLAYS NOBODY...just as a normal jew would, just as a normal catholic would...blah blah blah

it's the basketcase fundamentalist extremists that every religion has that distorts the true intentions of the religion.

you should pay more attention to what's being said before replying...or i apologize if i was unclear in my message. was i?

I think we are reading the same thread :P I saw you agreeing with Topane, who said the quote about "slaying the infidels" from the Quaran was taken out of context because somewhere else it said that Muslims should consider Christians brothers, therefore Muslims should not fight, or "slay", the Christians.

If I'm not a Christian or a Muslim, how am I taking the quote out of context if I consider it a threat? Am I not considered an "infidel" or "unbeliever" if I don't subscribe to either faith?

I probably should have quoted Topane, but since you seem to agree with him about the context thing, I thought I would hit two birds with one stone. Whooops...

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by Burzhui


That is exactly why i hate everyone equally. :D

You're really cool Burzhui. Everyone wants to be like you.

[mojo]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Dude, this is the most hatefull things that this kid said by the end, half the class was standing there, there is an urgent PTA and staff meeting today because of this. Half the class is was tramautized because of this... some girls started crying... it was totally unprovoked... and it wasn't an interegation... my bro's friend just mockingly asked if he wants to date that shick... it's 8th grade for crying out loud
and why should i believe this happened? or just "i heard from someone that heard from someone"? cuz by the time i hear from you, you gotta realize that i now heard from someone that heard from someone that heard from someone. and you're in new york, right? did this allegedly take place in ny? there is a lot of hysteria there still, right? and your insistence on it being the 8th grade doesnt help your story.

it's still hearsay...and i'm surprised that everyone here bought into all this. it just sounds too stereotypical for me. i may be more apt to believe it if this all came from a less biased source.

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Dude, this is the most hatefull things that this kid said ...

(2 different posts)

...That is exactly why i hate everyone equally. :D

According to your own statements it's not good when people speak hatefully, but then you hate everyone. Get your sh*t straight Burzhui. You can;t lay down a double standard, man. You're making an ass outta yourself and all Jews who agree with you (although I don't know if there are many). Your logic and arguments are contrdictary. Or I guess you just wanna be the victim when it's convinient (or your borther is the victiim in this case) but when Arabs are wronged, it's ok cuz you hate everyone.

I see the making of the "Show restarint..." thread from a couple of months ago.

[topane]

Originally posted by Two Cents


I think we are reading the same thread :P I saw you agreeing with Topane, who said the quote about "slaying the infidels" from the Quaran was taken out of context because somewhere else it said that Muslims should consider Christians brothers, therefore Muslims should not fight, or "slay", the Christians.

If I'm not a Christian or a Muslim, how am I taking the quote out of context if I consider it a threat? Am I not considered an "infidel" or "unbeliever" if I don't subscribe to either faith?

I probably should have quoted Topane, but since you seem to agree with him about the context thing, I thought I would hit two birds with one stone. Whooops... :P
Actually, my point was simply that things could be taken out of context by those who are looking for an excuse to kill, maim, persecute, etc. This happens across many religions. For example, there are many verses in the Bible which make people scratch their heads in wonder. Stone an unruly child? Burn calf entrails and fat for a "sin" offering? Own slaves? There are the same things in the Qur'an, as pointed out earlier. Let's not forget that although these books were "divinely inspired" and taken as law by those who subscribe to their respective religions, there are contradictions in each one. Believers of one directive (killing "infidels", for example) conveniently ignore the directive of another. I would think that if all Muslims believed they were supposed to blow themselves up in planes, they would have done it already. Historically, this "suidice bomber" thing hasn't been around very long. Latter part of the 20th century. Makes me wonder where it came from. I don't know but religion can be such a pain.

[Two Cents]

Originally posted by topane
:P
I don't know but religion can be such a pain.

:eek: What a minute, I don't care, I am an atheist. :P Actually, I was just being anal...I knew exactly what you meant, but I just thought it was funny when you hinted that "Slay the infidels" was taken out of context. Sure, most Muslims probably don't pay attention to that (I don't know) but it is still in their bible, and I don't see how you can look at it and say that the message in and of itself is not pure malice.

[topane]

Originally posted by Two Cents
I am an atheist. :eek: ACK! INFIDEL!!!! :P


Sure, most Muslims probably don't pay attention to that (I don't know) but it is still in their bible, and I don't see how you can look at it and say that the message in and of itself is not pure malice. True, but now this raises questions about the Qur'an and Bible: If they are the exact words of a deity, why are there contradictions? Perhaps they were interpreted by people depending on their mood that day? Who knows? Anyways, you're lucky to be an atheist, at least you don't have to deal with this bullshiat.

[poiselle]

Qu'ran or Koran or however you spell it, is a translation. Just as the bible is translated from the original. Things rarely translate exactly, so things can be taken different from their original intent. Any holy book could have passages taken from them that are less than pleasant. Since I cannot read Arabic (yet) or Hebrew or Latin, etc. and I don't have the originals I can't say for certain about the translations. I do know that I have read several translations of The Art of War and they are somewhat different. The general gist is the same, but they do come across slightly differently. Who knows. Nonetheless, it is unfortunate when children of any faith thing they should kill anyone. It pretty much sucks when anybody uses religion as an excuse to kill. It is a pretty old excuse though.

[hapoo]

Originally posted by johnnymk
O believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find firmness in you. (Sura:9, Ayat:123)

Fight those who believe not… even if they be People of the Book until they have willing agreed to pay the tribute in recognition of their submissive state. (Sura:9, Ayat:29)

You will be called to fight a mighty nation; fight them until they embrace Islam. (Sura:48, Ayat:16)

Then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them. And seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them, in every stratagem (of war). (Sura:9, Ayat:5)


I wish you would look into what your quoting a bit better
Just one translation from arabic:

Sura:9 Ayat:29
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, Nor hold that forbidden Which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, from among The People of the Book until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Basically it says fight anyone who doesn't believe in god, judgment day, "nor hold that forbidden, which hath been forbidden" (murder, adultery...), even if they are people of the book (Muslims, Jews, Christians...) until they submit. Now.. if you chose to take this out of context it might sound bad, but tell me... does fighting those who commit murder sound unreasonable? Don’t we not send people to jail for that?

Sura:48 Ayat:16
Say to the desert Arabs who lagged behind: "ye shall be summoned against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, Allah will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, he will punish you with grievous chastisement.



Sura:9 Ayat:5

In order to understand what it is saying you need to read the whole section so that its in context, so i'm not going to copy it all down. Quick background: when this was written it was very common to see people who worshipped idols (Carved stones, animals, etc). The section starts off saying that God doesn't like idol worshipers and curses them. Then says that if you shall not do anything to idol worshipers for four months, after which you may fight them until they submit. If they do not know about the religion you MUST take them aside and explain it to them, until then you can not do anything. The reason for the harshness is because as a believer in god you know that other believers around you share a basic moral code, but someone who believes in a rock could pretty much do anything and say that "his god" told him to do it. These were times were there was no law, people could and did get away with crimes, this book brought peace to an insecure land. I should point out that this is the only Sura out of more than a hundred that does NOT begin with the phrase "besmillah" (in the name of god).



I can never write as gracefully as was done in the book, and can never get the meaning across fearful or closed eyes. Reading one sentence out of ANY book will give you a distorted picture of what it is trying to convey. These books (Bible, Quran, etc.) were meant to last the test of time and so include many passages which seam barbaric or outdated. Before you jump to conclusions because of a snippet of what is quoted around on television, on the internet or in a magazine, read it yourself and understand what the book is saying.

As for the kid who said all those things... I can't speak for him. I think its unfortunate what he has been taught for it is NOT the same religion I practice. But trust me... for every Muslim you see with such views there is a "Christian", "Jew", "atheist", "Buddhist", "Hindu", etc. with the same views about other people. And unfortunately Burzhui seems to be one of these people with his stereotypes and hate towards other people. And to be honest I feel sorry for you Burzhui for your hate will only hurt you and people around you. You will miss out on relationships that could be wonderful because of the color of someone’s skin.

[welfareloser]

and something else we all need to remember - KIDS SAY THE DARNDEST THINGS. vicki iovine (author of the "girlfriends' guide" series of books) related a story about her nine-year old daughter (i may not get this exactly right, but this is close), who, while sitting in the car one day, calmly asked, "remember taht time you ran me over with the car and broke my legs and i cried and cried and you didn't come help me?" (it never happened.)

kids will say "my daddy said he would kill your mommy for me if you hit me again." ... and that kid's daddy is very surprised to hear about it when he gets a call from the principal.

so we don't really know the context here, since burzhui is famously unreliable, and we don't really have a clue what was going through the kid's head at the time or what he's really learning at home.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by mojorisin

and why should i believe this happened? or just "i heard from someone that heard from someone"? cuz by the time i hear from you, you gotta realize that i now heard from someone that heard from someone that heard from someone. and you're in new york, right? did this allegedly take place in ny? there is a lot of hysteria there still, right? and your insistence on it being the 8th grade doesnt help your story.

it's still hearsay...and i'm surprised that everyone here bought into all this. it just sounds too stereotypical for me. i may be more apt to believe it if this all came from a less biased source.

Yea someone, someone someone someone... no man my bro was right there and he relayed it all to me, now i don't impose my views on my bro... he figures the $hit out on his own, so he is very unbiased... meanwhile this kid has been sent to a therapist the school oficials said... it kind of sucks apparently he was brainwashed for like 13 years in Egypt... i don't think a couple of sessions with a therapist will clear all of it up

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by BrewMaster


According to your own statements it's not good when people speak hatefully, but then you hate everyone.

Dude do you see that little green smiley face right next to my i hate everyone post.. yea that one, you see how it is facial expression characterized by an upward curving of the corners of the mouth and indicating pleasure, amusement, or derision.... well it mean sarcasm if you don't know.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by welfareloser

so we don't really know the context here, since burzhui is famously unreliable,

Remember that little thing that you talked about, with the movement of the middle finger up into the air and then sideways? So as to say F U and the horse you rode in on... you know where i'm going with this right?

In any case, in your little mind i might be unrealiable, for whichever reason, but i back up what i say, and i don't rely on just the American media for my insights into worlds history and politics

[Lolita]

for what it helps, i can testify that Burzhui really does have a brother who goes to private school and from everything that i heard about this, i totally believe its true (plus his brother is bright so he wouldnt have told this story as a joke) :)

[Two Cents]

Originally posted by topane
:eek: ACK! INFIDEL!!!! :P

True, but now this raises questions about the Qur'an and Bible: If they are the exact words of a deity, why are there contradictions? Perhaps they were interpreted by people depending on their mood that day? Who knows? Anyways, you're lucky to be an atheist, at least you don't have to deal with this bullshiat.

If I am not mistaken, "prophets" are "vessels" of their god, so the god is actually speaking through that person. Are you saying god was in a bad mood when he/she spaked that sentence? :D

I am not lucky to be an Atheist, I chose to be one. To this day, my family thinks I am pagan and will go to hell when I die (they are very polite about it tho) I learned the hard way that in any religion, not just in people who worship idols as Hapoo suggests, people can do anything by saying their god told them to do it. Case in point, the hijackers/kamikazes believed that if they crashed those planes in sacrifice, they would be rewarded by God. Religion is the ultimate form of mind control. Every major "one god" religion believes that its god is "All Good", but at some point in the religion's history, murder or worse is carried out in the name of that "All Good" god. Yeah, yeah, my statements basically prove the "interpretation" arguments you've been making, but blah blah...:P *The Pagan get steps off his soap box*

[mojo]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Remember that little thing that you talked about, with the movement of the middle finger up into the air and then sideways? So as to say F U and the horse you rode in on... you know where i'm going with this right?

In any case, in your little mind i might be unrealiable, for whichever reason, but i back up what i say, and i don't rely on just the American media for my insights into worlds history and politics

you called welfare's mind little? this is the wrong place for that, buddy boy...

if you indeed have half enough brain to ever want to hold credibility here, you should lay off personal attacks on such respected members of g|a. everyone knows that she is highly intelligent and does her research before flying off the handle.

and lolita, i didnt say that the kid made anything up. i'm just saying that it's a bit far fetched to just buy into it all blindly. it just looks like the sensationalism that burz has been pushing all along. and i will need a lil more than hearsay to believe it.

here's the way i see it:
burz-"muslims are bad!"
g|a-"we don't believe you"
burz-"oh ya? we dig this...person 'a' went to school and asked person 'b' why he got person 'c's' ph#. he said 'i am born to kill.' and every one said 'ooh' and 'ahh'"

oversimplified, but that's about the gist of it. the "proof" presented could just be a fabrication...and of course it's convenient that we can't verify any of it. as far as i see it, it's a bunch of words strung together. nothing more.

hapoo has some good words and insight..i suggest everyone read them again

[aglio412]

Originally posted by Two Cents


If I am not mistaken, "prophets" are "vessels" of their god, so the god is actually speaking through that person. Are you saying god was in a bad mood when he/she spaked that sentence? :D

I am not lucky to be an Atheist, I chose to be one. To this day, my family thinks I am pagan and will go to hell when I die (they are very polite about it tho) I learned the hard way that in any religion, not just in people who worship idols as Hapoo suggests, people can do anything by saying their god told them to do it. Case in point, the hijackers/kamikazes believed that if they crashed those planes in sacrifice, they would be rewarded by God. Religion is the ultimate form of mind control. Every major "one god" religion believes that its god is "All Good", but at some point in the religion's history, murder or worse is carried out in the name of that "All Good" god. Yeah, yeah, my statements basically prove the "interpretation" arguments you've been making, but blah blah...:P *The Pagan get steps off his soap box*

*pulls up a stool next to the pagan's soapbox*

i'm already in this thread...not backing off now.

i agree with marx when he said religion is the 'opiate for the masses.' i guess one of the hypotheses i have concerning the existence of religion is the human's fear of death. every religion promises life after death...in heaven or nirvana or wherever the good god sends you. so think about it...live your life knowing that some day you'll be dead forever...or go through it thinking, god will let me live in the clouds with him and the angels...

eeerrrrccch...brakes! please no flame war...

i wouldn't go as far as to say i'm atheist...because there is always part of me that will wonder...and will be somewhat religious. by somewhat i mean...have faith..albeit not a great deal of faith, still it's faith nonetheless. and it's not because i'm afraid to die and rot in the ground with the rest of darwin's naturally selected monkeys...no, it's because i feel it brings peace and order to my life. i believe that when i die, my body decomposes, there is no heaven no hell...i die. plain and simple. just like when your goldfish died when you were 5, i'll die and be buried in the ground. and i'm ok with that.

i guess when i'm getting at...in my opinion, alot of the extremist actions happen b/c of this promise of eternal splendor...and the high vaule they put on the importance of their own religion. religion is a powerful thing...and if one religion was truly the correct one, then why are there so many?? are there really that MANY people out there who are WRONG?

so...and this is my view...i'm just venting here...people need to quit trying to impose their religious beliefs onto others and lose the my god is right, your god is crap mentality. whether there's a god, allah, buddha, whateva... i look at religion as a vehical to promote morality and peace. it's not something to be used as a weapon or an excuse for violence.

just my outlook...

[johnnymk]

So I guess you "atheists" are not afraid to die?

[Two Cents]

Originally posted by aglio412


*pulls up a stool next to the pagan's soapbox*

just like when your goldfish died when you were 5, i'll die and be buried in the ground. and i'm ok with that.

just my outlook...

Word up on everything you said...is it not humbling to think your fate will be the same as a goldfishes'?:D

[aglio412]

Originally posted by johnnymk
So I guess you "atheists" are not afraid to die?

i think in some way everyone has some sort of fear about dying.

granted..i've accepted the notion that i will die one day...but the thing that scares me is the people who care about me that i will leave behind.

i wouldn't say i'm an atheist...but the thought of an afterlife isn't something i believe in. or hell, maybe i am an atheist since i see religion as more of a social and moral enhancing tool...

the thing is, i'm afraid to die...but i know i will. and in my mind i'll be dead forever when i die. i'm not going to hold on to the hope that there is an afterlife and make it my driving life force.

i have the utmost respect for religious individuals...my girlfriend's brother is a pastor...and because of his devotion to jesus, he's a moral upstanding man. but i know he's waiting to die so he can be with jesus...and i hope he gets to be with him someday.

for me though, i'm going to live every day of my life to its fullest...and not let the notion of eternal bliss shield me from doing that.

i hope i'm wrong...i hope all of the good, moral people in this world get to spend eternity with their creator...i just think strictly adhering to a set of laws written in a book thousands of years ago doesn't make you a better person than me...i'm a moral, caring, loving person and if there is an afterlife, i'll be rewarded for that. i'm just not expecting there to be one.

[Markel]

Originally posted by johnnymk
So I guess you "atheists" are not afraid to die?
Heh Heh. Yeah, Marx had his say about religion, but someone else has said, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

[aglio412]

Originally posted by Markel

Heh Heh. Yeah, Marx had his say about religion, but someone else has said, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

good point...even the biggest nonbeliever will be shouting a god's name when faced with death...

what if...

what if, right?

[Two Cents]

Originally posted by johnnymk
So I guess you "atheists" are not afraid to die?

What's with the quote? You think ATHEISTS don't exist? :P
Everyone is afraid to die. If you weren't afraid, you wouldn't believe in God, would you?

[topane]

Originally posted by johnnymk
So I guess you "atheists" are not afraid to die? I think the greatest gift of religion (most of them, anyways) is that if you're true to your beliefs, you have nothing to fear from death. We all die, and likewise we can't all be right about what happens after that.

Originally posted by aglio412
what if...

what if, right? What if, indeed...

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by poiselle
Since I cannot read Arabic (yet) or Hebrew or Latin...

Not to be too picky, but the Bible was written in Greek (new testament) and Hebrew (old testament) so don't waste your time learning Latin unless you like reading ol' skool Catholic mass.

[poiselle]

Originally posted by BrewMaster


Not to be too picky, but the Bible was written in Greek (new testament) and Hebrew (old testament) so don't waste your time learning Latin unless you like reading ol' skool Catholic mass.

Actually I am learning arabic. I like Latin and all, but the arabic alphabet is better.

[mojo]

Originally posted by Two Cents


What's with the quote? You think ATHEISTS don't exist? :P
Everyone is afraid to die. If you weren't afraid, you wouldn't believe in God, would you?
i dont WANT to die...but i wouldnt go so far as to say i'm "afraid" to die. let's say that i die....what am i gonna do? say "oh, crap...look what i did! i'm dead!" no, i won't do anything. you know why? i'll be dead. or let's say there is heaven or whatever one choses to call the place...seems like a pretty happy place. nah, i wouldnt be afraid of that, either. afraid of no more bills? afraid of no putting up with bs? i dont see the downside.

and as far as deity...and i'm not about to discuss what i "believe" in....(not that anyone asked)

[Two Cents]

Originally posted by mojorisin

i dont WANT to die...but i wouldnt go so far as to say i'm "afraid" to die. let's say that i die....what am i gonna do? say "oh, crap...look what i did! i'm dead!" no, i won't do anything. you know why? i'll be dead. or let's say there is heaven or whatever one choses to call the place...seems like a pretty happy place. nah, i wouldnt be afraid of that, either. afraid of no more bills? afraid of no putting up with bs? i dont see the downside.

and as far as deity...and i'm not about to discuss what i "believe" in....(not that anyone asked)

Okay, so that was a blanket statement. BUT, are you telling me that you've never thought about what would happen after you die, and NOT felt apprehensive? I am like you, when I die, I'll cease to exist, I wouldn't know I'm dead, because I'll be dead. Of course you can't be afraid if you're dead.

For your sake, I hope there is not a heaven and hell, because you'll be goin' to hell for your "hypthetical" Dreamcast question!

:D (Mojo in hell) --> :angry:

[Markel]

Originally posted by BrewMaster
Not to be too picky, but the Bible was written in Greek (new testament) and Hebrew (old testament)....
Not to be too picky ;) but parts of the Old Testament were also written in Aramaic.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Markel

Not to be too picky ;) but parts of the Old Testament were also written in Aramaic.


As soon as i read it, i wanted to say some of it was written in Aramaic... but then you come along and post it before i get a chance.

In any case i said in the very beginign that all of this is pretty Fu*ked up, and that it's ****ed up that this kid learned a very evil interpretation of the Quaran

[eSDee]

Originally posted by welfareloser

since burzhui is famously unreliable

I'm with Welfare and m0j0 on this one. The bull$h!t detection meter always maxes out whenever Burzhui makes a post.

[sbp]

Originally posted by EsDeeLoco


I'm with Welfare and m0j0 on this one. The bull$h!t detection meter always maxes out whenever Burzhui makes a post. http://users.pandora.be/Anal_Amoebe/bull.gif

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by EsDeeLoco


I'm with Welfare and m0j0 on this one. The bull$h!t detection meter always maxes out whenever Burzhui makes a post.

And yet you have yet to point out anything that was bull**** that i said:rolleyes:

[eSDee]

Hey no offense Burzhui. I was just sayin that I don't take what you say as Bible or anything. But that's just because I don't know you well enough yet. We'll see though you're getting better man.

[mojo]

Originally posted by Burzhui


And yet you have yet to point out anything that was bull**** that i said:rolleyes:

someone missed out on the FACT that nothing here can be proven. therefore, it defaults to bullsh*t (because of the biased source) :rolleyes:

[Nija]

Originally posted by mojorisin
and as far as deity...and i'm not about to discuss what i "believe" in....(not that anyone asked)

i'll ask... hey mojorisin... what do u "believe in"?

nija

[topane]

Originally posted by Nija


i'll ask... hey mojorisin... what do u "believe in"?

nija He believes that I am the supreme being. He also stalks me.