Got|Apex? Review: ATi RADEON 8500 Video Card 10/22/2001

[Leon]

Thank you for reading the review. Please post any questions or comments you may have.


http://www.gotapex.com/reviews.php?rev=rad8500/index.html

[MusashiM]

I was reading the beginning of the review... is ATI actually considering sending chips out to other companies to put in cards of their own design? This seems very out of character for ATI...

[sbp]

Originally posted by MusashiM
I was reading the beginning of the review... is ATI actually considering sending chips out to other companies to put in cards of their own design? This seems very out of character for ATI... ATI started doing this a few months ago.

http://www.ati.com/na/pages/corporate/press/2001/4378.html
http://www.ati.com/na/pages/corporate/press/2001/4386.html

[Memo]

So, I'm not sure what's going on with this TruFrom crap. It looks as if though it would be cool. But do the games have to be coded to support it or can your force it upon the models? I have seen no pictures of ACTUAL games using the feature.

[sbp]

Games can be patched to take advantage of Truform. Implenting Truform is relatively easy. Check out October 07, 2001 "A word about ATI Truform" post here: http://www.croteam.com

Currently Counterstrike and Serious Sam have been patched to take advantage of Truform. Though patched games may sport a few visual abnormalities, the tradeoff is worth it. The reason for abnormalities is because the game models weren't made with Truform in mind.

Radeon 8500 screenshot with Truform: http://www.hothardware.com/reviews/images/r8500r7500/cs8500.htm
Compared to GF3 that does not support Truform: http://www.hothardware.com/reviews/images/r8500r7500/csgf3.htm

http://www.vii.com/~andrewp/notruform.jpg
http://www.vii.com/~andrewp/truform.jpg

----
GF3 videocards do not support Truform. They support their own form of higher order surfaces.
http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,apn%253D4%2526s%253D1017%2526a%253D11876%2526app%253D2%2526ap%253D3,00.asp

[Wizard]

WoW. I took a look at those pictures and almost immediately decided that FPS is not worth the quality you have to put up with. What it comes down too is that I rather get 100FPS with great quality than 150FPS with good quality. Those screenshots are amazing. Thanks sbp

[mallowjr]

Wizard I realized that, but after I made the mistake of buying a geforce3.

I hav ea voodoo 5, and the geforce3 colour representation (I messed with a lot of configs with it so don't ask), is nothing compared to voodoos/ati, and the 2D (I hada gainward, best "2D" geforce3 by reviews) was worse than 3dfx/ati. IT comes down to you want FPS, or everything else. Some people like FPS, but to me - it's pretty ugly representation of a game. This is an opinion.

I will be getting ATI 8500 sometime to replace my V5.

[MusashiM]

Originally posted by mallowjr


I will be getting ATI 8500 sometime to replace my V5.

I'm just concerned about the compatability and drivers. But I've always seen ATI to have, if nothing else, stable cards. Hopefully, if their current drivers are having so many stability problems, they might upgrade them where they wouldn't normally for just performance gains... I hope anyway... :rolleyes:

[sbp]

Originally posted by mallowjr
Wizard I realized that, but after I made the mistake of buying a geforce3.

I hav ea voodoo 5, and the geforce3 colour representation (I messed with a lot of configs with it so don't ask), is nothing compared to voodoos/ati, and the 2D (I hada gainward, best "2D" geforce3 by reviews) was worse than 3dfx/ati. IT comes down to you want FPS, or everything else. Some people like FPS, but to me - it's pretty ugly representation of a game. This is an opinion.

I will be getting ATI 8500 sometime to replace my V5. Did you try digital vibrance control?

[Wizard]

Next Video Card I get will be a ATi Radeon 8500. Bah frame rates... it isn't everything and quality is worth so much more. Right now there isn't really any games that will tax either the ATi 8500 or the GF3 Ti 500 to such a level that they brute frame rates will become super important. I play Max Payne with a GF2 GTS at 1074x768 and the frame rates are ok. Seriously is there any game that would require more?

[DARTH]

Try playing Max Payne with all the eye candy ie Anisotropic filtering and 4xFSAA and see how well even a GeForce3 performs. So yes there are tons of games out there, that to look their best, require more robust fill rates.

[MusashiM]

Originally posted by DARTH
Try playing Max Payne with all the eye candy ie Anisotropic filtering and 4xFSAA and see how well even a GeForce3 performs. So yes there are tons of games out there, that to look their best, require more robust fill rates.

But I remember reading somewhere that as long as the frame rates don't drop below 60-70 fps, the human eye can't really see the difference. Doesn't that mean that anything over 70 fps is not necessary?

[sbp]

here is a GF3 not using anisotropic filtering:
http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/nvidiahl_0tap_anistropic.jpg

compared to a GF3 using 64tap anisotropic:
http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/nvidiahl_64-tap_anistropic.jpg


Another picture of a GF3 using 64Tap Anisotropic filtering: http://www.nvnews.net/screenshots/TE/Q3_64Tap_GF3.jpg

Nice huh? :drool:

[Wizard]

How does truform look under the same circumstances?

[sbp]

First realize future games will be more demanding. What may be a great videocard now may in a years time be mediocre. Certainly videocard performance is out stripping the ability of game programmers to utilize videocard power. So what is done with all the power of new videocards? We turn on the eye candy like anisotropic filtering and full screen anti-aliasing. So its not just about how many frames per second you can get.

How Many FPS? article http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/031/105/thw010113.html

[MusashiM]

Originally posted by sbp
First realize future games will be more demanding. What may be a great videocard now may in a years time be mediocre. Certainly videocard performance is out stripping the ability of game programmers to utilize videocard power. So what is done with all the power of new videocards? We turn on the eye candy like anisotropic filtering and full screen anti-aliasing. So its not just about how many frames per second you can get.

How Many FPS? article http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/031/105/thw010113.html

Yeah, I realized that about the eye-candy, but what I was trying to say is that even with all of that eye-candy and at higher resolutions, can't the Radeon 8500 and GeForce 3 both maintian 70+ fps? So you won't see the difference between, say 120 fps and 80 fps, but you will see the difference with the anisotropic filtering and full screen anti-aliasing that cause the drop in the fps, right?

[Wizard]

Rich man's ideal: "buy the most expensive (thereby the best) video card available just in case the future games tax your system" The thing I don't get is that if you are going to be upgrading your video card every 8 months why waste your money buying the top one each time, you would have basically the same performance going midrange every time and could save yourself a couple hundred dollars.

nVidia is getting a bit to large for my taste and they are starting to get cocky about their lead position in the Vid card industry. I hope ATi gets the driver situation fixed so that nVidia can finally have some competition and hopefully will lower prices.

[sbp]

Originally posted by W|zard
Rich man's ideal: "buy the most expensive (thereby the best) video card available just in case the future games tax your system" The thing I don't get is that if you are going to be upgrading your video card every 8 months why waste your money buying the top one each time, you would have basically the same performance going midrange every time and could save yourself a couple hundred dollars.

nVidia is getting a bit to large for my taste and they are starting to get cocky about their lead position in the Vid card industry. I hope ATi gets the driver situation fixed so that nVidia can finally have some competition and hopefully will lower prices. Buying the best videocard when upgrading does not mean upgrading every 6 months. If anything, it means a longer wait until the next videocard upgrade.

[MusashiM]

Yeah. I usually try and buy the best price per performance, and that usually means either finding a really good deal or buying less than the best quality at time. But, since I'm not a big gamer, I normally don't see the difference immeadiately.

[cs1094]

Ok, I have an AthlonXP1700+ with 256MB ddr and a 40gig 7200rpm HD on a Shuttle ak31 MB...what I need to know is, which would be better to go with, and ATI Radeon 8500 or a GeForce3 Ti500??? I am a hard core gamer as well as digital artist...

[DREDD]

do you consider your gaming habit more important than your work as an artist? If so nvidia for you. If you value your work more and want to have a good game card too, but would not like the lower 2D performance of the Nvidia cards then Radeon for you.

[sbp]

I ordered a Ti500 from newegg. Should be arriving in a few days.

[nfarzan]

does anyone know when the ATI Radeon 8500 All-in-wonder is coming out? Im waiting on that one...

[sbp]

Originally posted by nfarzan
does anyone know when the ATI Radeon 8500 All-in-wonder is coming out? Im waiting on that one... The RADEON 8500DV has been out for over 2 weeks.

reviews: http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q4/011211/index.html
http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/r8500dv.shtml

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=48&manufactory=1126&DEPA=1
http://192.216.185.10/mwave/ProdVID-ATI.hmx?UID=&CID=&updepts=VID&DNAME=%3Cb%3EVideo+Cards%3C%2Fb%3E&Back=ProdVID-ATI.hmx?

[nfarzan]

$320 is kinda harsh for the 8500DV...but its so tempting with remote control and video capture. Im planning on building my new PC in may...prices should hit around $200 by then shouldn't they? please.....?

[sbp]

http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/heatherturban.jpg

"hmm future is cloudy and uncertain. May be good chance. That will be $25 please."

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by nfarzan
$320 is kinda harsh for the 8500DV...but its so tempting with remote control and video capture. Im planning on building my new PC in may...prices should hit around $200 by then shouldn't they? please.....?

It all depends on what happens. I bought my Radeon 64 Meg DDR vivo for $150 about 3 months ago hoping to price match with AMEX. It is actually the same price or a little more expensive now then it was then. grrr... plus I'm still waiting on the mail-in-rebate. :mad:

Anyway, that just goes to show you that the price might not drop a whole lot. I've noticed that the feature rich cards like the AIWs tend not to drop in price as fast as other cards.