redskins name is offensive

[mojo]

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/abc/20020113/ts/redskins_plate020113_1.html

Monday January 14 02:39 AM EST
'Redskins' License Plate Sparks Battle
By Brian Rooney ABCNEWS.com
Is football fan's car tag a tribute or an insult?

Dale Atkeson's home has a sign over the door: "Redskin Country."

He flies Washington Redskins banners out front and a flag above his deck overlooking the Pacific. He even has a license plate that says "1 REDSKN."

"Generally, what happens is people drive by and they see Redskins, and they'll honk the horn and give me a thumbs-up or something like that," Atkeson said.

But when Eugene Herrod of the Southern California Indian Center searched motor vehicle records he saw that license and asked the Department of Motor Vehicles to revoke the plate.

"The DMV has rejected and revoked plates in the past that read Jap, *****, Kike," Herrod said.

To a lot of American Indians, Redskin is a similar epithet. Two years ago Herrod's group convinced the state to ban from license plates all configurations of the word Redskin.

‘Just a Football Team’

But to Atkeson, a retired longshoreman who played running back for Washington in the early 1950s, Redskin is a name to be proud of.

"The Redskins, it means a football team," Atkeson said. "That's it, just a football team like the Steelers or the Vikings. I don't think the Vikings are mad."

Atkeson got a letter from the Department of Motor Vehicles demanding that he surrender the plate, "as they are offensive to the American Indian community," Atkeson said.

He looks at this as political correctness to the extreme, but Herrod doesn't.

"If there was a team called Atlanta Negroes, and when the team scored everyone stood up and did a watermelon chop, how long would that last?" Herrod said. "Would that be political correctness? Would it?"

Atkeson is fighting it but expects to lose, saying "You can't fight city hall." And he expects another letter from the DMV for his wife's car. That would be, "RDSKN 2."

[topane]

There's too much PC. I think everyone should just use inflammatory words to describe everyone else. Then we won't have to go looking to be offended; it will already be happening.

[welfareloser]

i hate it when white people say "we dint mean it that way so you're being silly to get offended."

it's not silly.

baseball team: the NY negroes. not cool.

there are two hundred other teams named after animals. it's like redskins are just another animal.

the few teams named after humans are named after human OCCUPATIONS. those are not offensive. mariners. packers. viking was a pretty cool occupation; it doesn't refer to a whole race. even braves, referring to young male warriors, is at least appropriate and i, for one, am not offended by it.

my school's team is the fighting illini. the illini were a very peaceful tribe that got wiped out by white men. in 1869 they went and built this university on land stolen from the indians by the guvmint and given to the university for free. then they go and name the team the fighting illini and make their mascot a white kid in some pimped out monkey suit to do a bogus war dance complete with whoops and cartwheels. scuse me for not believing in the "honor the chief" line of crap about noble tradition. maybe "the chief" really does bring a tear to the eye of your average white male cheeto-eating football fan to as he waxes nostalgic about the good old days of the noble savage, but it just gives me a bad case of heartburn.

[welfareloser]

and since efforts to get the nfl to change the name have been unsuccessful, i think this is an excellent way to fight it. if they can get the dmv to revoke the plates, it chips away at the credibility of such an awful team name and sends a strong message.

and actually, "the NY darkies" would be a more analogous baseball team name. don't tell me it's not offensive, and don't tell me it's not exactly the friggin same as the washington redskins.

[dbax791]

As a person of scandinavian heritage, I actually take offense to the name "Vikings". To put these fumblin', no-defense-havin', Spurgeon-Wynn-led incompetents in the uniform of the great Viking warrior is very offensive to my heritage. :P

[Grimm]

Why did they name the team Redskins in the first place?

[molecularfire]

While I agree that the term Redskins would be offensive to Native Americans, I do feel for that poor guy. From what I've read of the article, the guy really doesn't mean any harm. He's just a Redskin fan. By the same token, had there been a team called the New York Blackies or the Chicago Yellows (I'm oriental, so this might mean something more to me) I would probably want to have the team name changed, but I wouldn't take it out on the fans. Lets face it, the reason that the Southern California Indian Center is using this approach is because they either don't want to or can't take on the NFL team. While I agree that it's strategically wiser to pick fights you can win, how does that make you any different than a bully?

[sbp]

This issue was semi-discussed in this thread about Political Correctness (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36870)

i hate it when white people say "we dint mean it that way so you're being silly to get offended." And I hate white people who have white people's guilt syndrome.

"there are two hundred other teams named after animals." Maybe the animal rights wackos will get up in arms about that.

"the few teams named after humans are named after human OCCUPATIONS." Fighting is an occupation for the Irish. :heh:

Council votes for Redskins to change name (http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020110-70377716.htm)

No clamor to change Redskins name (http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020112-91512964.htm)


Look into the origins of the terms Redskins instead of accepting claims from people looking to be offended.

[mojo]

it's just pretty smug crap to tell people what should offend them. i'm not a mind reader, so i'm not prepared to know that people are looking to be offended...let alone accuse them of it. some people are, i'm sure...but i wouldn't presume it's true in every case.

look...now we have people offended by people being offended! oh my...or are they looking for ways to be offended as well?

[sbp]

Yep, that is exactly what's happening in this situation mojorisin. People are being told what should offend them. If they aren't offended, they might be some sort of insensitive bigot.

The question is where is this going to stop? What next will be deemed offensive and thus be removed?

[mojo]

Originally posted by sbp
Yep, that is exactly what's happening in this situation mojorisin. People are being told what should offend them. If they aren't offended, they might be some sort of insensitive bigot.

The question is where is this going to stop? What next will be deemed offensive and thus be removed?
chillax

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by sbp

This issue was semi-discussed in this thread about Political Correctness (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36870)

okay...


i hate it when white people say "we dint mean it that way so you're being silly to get offended." And I hate white people who have white people's guilt syndrome.

i'm not asking for reparations, flagellations, or any kind of guilt. but a screaming insult is a screaming insult. it's really not asking much. i hate white people guilt syndrome too. i don't think this is a part of it.


"there are two hundred other teams named after animals." Maybe the animal rights wackos will get up in arms about that.

silly.


"the few teams named after humans are named after human OCCUPATIONS." Fighting is an occupation for the Irish. :heh:

oops. forgot that one. i always eventually wind up eating #### in any discussion that involves sports... :blush:


Council votes for Redskins to change name (http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020110-70377716.htm)

No clamor to change Redskins name (http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020112-91512964.htm)

Look into the origins of the terms Redskins instead of accepting claims from people looking to be offended.

i will look into it, but... "the n-word" has a perfectly good origin too.. a mutation of the latin for "black." doesn't make it okay for thousands of people to wander around with t-shirts emblazoned witht eh word.

[Grimm]

A friend told me what the Redskins are named after. They are apparently not directly named after Native Americans.
The team is originaly from Boston. The team is named after the people who dumped all the tea in the harbor. The colinists who painted themselves red and pretended to be Native Americans, even though no one would really take them as such, when they raided the trade ships with the tea.
So the team is named after warriors in our (our being all Americans) history who commited one of the first acts of open rebelion.

The "Redskin" refers to one of the persons who painted themselves red. Not an actual Native American.
That's their argument at least. 'Cause you should hear both sides before making a decision.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Grimm
painted themselves red and pretended to be Native Americans

so it's kinda like the rebel flag. has some nifty connotations. rebellion is cool. everybody loves a rebel.

also has some nasty racist connotations. whites in redface. so people aren't crazy for being offended.

i don't think anyone is wrong or an automatic racist for liking the symbol and wanting to hang onto it. however, i think that symbols like the rebel flag and the redskins oughtta be replaced with something that could be equally mojo-laden that DOESN'T have the hurtful baggage. it doesn't hurt to get rid of it as much as it does to keep it. there are a zillion other cool mascots people can root for. liking it is fine. but fighting tooth and nail to hang onto it and getting pissed at anyone who suggests that the racist element is unpleasant enough to warrant a change is the part that kinda gets to me.

because rolling your eyes at every instance of PC on the grounds that "there's too much PC" is just sticking your head up your butt.

[Nanotech9]

Hey, guess what? According to the constitution i have the ****ing right to say whatever the **** i want, no matter who the **** gets offended by it.

Sure, ok, slander an lible are one thing, but i dont give a crap if someone gets "emotionally distressed" by something i say. If its not slander or libel(sp?) than stop bugging me. I dont have to give a rats ass about you and what you get offended at.

NOTE: I only take this position when people are being stupid about stuff. They need to get over it. Otherwise, i'm pretty easy to reason with :)

ADN YES, IF SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING I DONT LIKE - guess what - i have to get over it too. Thats their right. I will support their right to do that, even if i completely disagree with what they want to say!

[Memo]

With so much diversity in the US, we're NEVER going to be able to please everybody. There is always going to be someone that is going to bitch because they don't like something.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
Hey, guess what? According to the constitution i have the ****ing right to say whatever the **** i want, no matter who the **** gets offended by it.

Sure, ok, slander an lible are one thing, but i dont give a crap if someone gets "emotionally distressed" by something i say. If its not slander or libel(sp?) than stop bugging me. I dont have to give a rats ass about you and what you get offended at.

NOTE: I only take this position when people are being stupid about stuff. They need to get over it. Otherwise, i'm pretty easy to reason with :)

ADN YES, IF SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING I DONT LIKE - guess what - i have to get over it too. Thats their right. I will support their right to do that, even if i completely disagree with what they want to say!

but this isn't just someone saying something. sometimes you're not allowed to say certain things. you're not allowed to walk into a grade school and yell "i hate you little wet c**ts!"

the ppl offended by the team name and the liscence plate it spawned would like to have a team named "redskins" and all its paraphernalia in the same category. i see both sides. but i don't think the offended parties are crazy.

and yes, of course we can't please everybody. but i don't think that's a valid argument for anything. i don't think throwing your hands up is appropriate. i don't think "we can't make everybody happy so let's not try to make anyone happy when issues get tough" is a good way to deal with anything. either the offended parties have valid points or they don't. i think they do.

this argument has very valid points on both sides. the people who want to keep the name are not intentionally hell-bent on offending otehrs. the people who want the name changed are not intentionally hell-bent on arguing about dumb semantics at the expense of everyone else's comfort.

"emotionally distressed" in quotes, as though it means nothing. yeah, i think sometimes there are complaints worthy of rolling your eyes at. but i don't think this is one of them. it's not like the guy who started this thing is suing for a bunch of money because he's been having panic attacks ever since the traumatic event of seeing the plate. he is jsut taking some very sane and appropriate steps WITHIN THE SYSTEM because he doesn't want his kids to see a racial epithet while walking down the street. he is asking for a change, he may or may not get it. i don't think it's appropriate to turn your nose up at his asking for change... it's not like he's throwing rotten tomatoes or molitov cocktails, for chrissakes. i think his point is a valid one. there is supoort for his side, and ther is support for the other side. if there is more support for his side, he will get the change requested. if not, things will remain as they are. is he to be ridiculed for expressing his minority opinion? cuz that's all he's doing. expressing his opinion that that sort of thing ought not to be allowed.

[Nanotech9]

Originally posted by welfareloser


you're not allowed to walk into a grade school and yell "i hate you little wet c**ts!"


unless theres a law or rules posted somewhere, then YES, you can :)

not that i ever would, but still...

anyways, hopefully gradeschoolers dont know what a c**t is yet (although they probably do now a-days, and if they do, then who cares?)

[LPMiller]

You know, just because you have a right, doesn't mean you should abuse it.

I don't care how you coach it, redskins is an offensive name. Braves, that one is ok to me, that's no different then calling a team Warriors or Ninja's or Really Tough Guys You Don't Want To Piss Off.

But Redskins just isn't needed.

Sure, you have a right to say it, or to use it. But having a right and actually being right are not always the same thing.

[Ladogaboy]

I'm wondering if the NFL is worried about losing fans if their franchise were renamed... :confused:

If the NBA is stupid enough to think that it is necessary to change the name of the Washington Bullets, the NFL should atleast give on this one.

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by Nanotech9


unless theres a law or rules posted somewhere, then YES, you can :)


i think you might get detention for that one...

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Nanotech9


unless theres a law or rules posted somewhere, then YES, you can :)

not that i ever would, but still...

anyways, hopefully gradeschoolers dont know what a c**t is yet (although they probably do now a-days, and if they do, then who cares?)

there are laws against it. tons of them. they get enforced when crap like that happens. do you seriously think that if an adult walked into a grade school and screamed that at some little kids, he wouldn't get arrested? or, that he SHOULDN'T?!?! "but still," nothin. wait until you have a 5 year old daughter. your attitude is gonna be a little less "who cares" and a little more "where's my gun?"

[BrewMaster]

Originally posted by LPMiller
having a right and actually being right are not always the same thing.

OK, everyone stop and read the above quote by LPMiller. Now read it again. And again. And one more time for good measure. Now don't forget it!

well said LPM.

[mojo]

Originally posted by welfareloser

because rolling your eyes at every instance of PC on the grounds that "there's too much PC" is just sticking your head up your butt.
this is exactly what i was getting at. it's just the popular thing to say "too much pc" or whatever, and people are blinded to the facts. people don't care what happens to their neighbor anymore, as long as it doesn't affect them directly. peeps runnin around saying sh*t like "i don't understand it, so it must be wrong" kind of crap just bugs. if some american indians are offended, then they have more say in it than i do...cuz i'm just not an american indian.

and like i said before, maybe some people abuse the priviledge by looking for things to be offended by. however, i'm not about to be the one that tries to decide who is doing that and who is really offended. pick the wrong one, and you just look like an ass.

it's just ironic that peeps are offended by the act of others being offended.

[molecularfire]

wait until you have a 5 year old daughter. your attitude is gonna be a little less "who cares" and a little more "where's my gun?"

You're right, I would. Doesn't make it right.

[El Scorcho]

Im sick of people just wanting something to bitch about. Redskins wasnt meant to be offensive. Im tired of people sitting there trying to make some sort of point. Obviously if this was directed at native americans with an intent for hate then maybe they have a case. Its not just native americans or african americans or chinese americans or whover the hell is sitting there bitching that have negative terms directed at them. Pretty much all black comedians these days are making fun of white people... but im not bitching, i think its funny.

People say "whitey" "kracker" or whatever and nobody cares. WHy cant it always be like this? I think some people need to chill :blite: :bandit:

[mojo]

Originally posted by DarkFury

Yeah... Whitey. Whoo hoo... you ol' crackhead Kracker (courtesy of Chris Rock).

(J/K... but yes this issue can go too far sometimes.)
so, i forget...which team exactly is called the crackers? i don't recall seeing that :P

[OC]

Ya know, people are different. I am white, and I see things a certain way. Do ALL white people see things my way? Of course not.

A lot of black people see things differently than I do. Do they ALL? No.

A lot of Asian people see things differently than I do. Do they ALL? No.

A lot of European people see things differently than I do. Do they ALL? No.

A lot of Indians (Native Americans) see things differently than I do. Do they ALL? No.

I am not offended when I hear white people referred to as "honkeys". My basis for that is "There is no offense where none is taken."

If someone MEANS to offend, they will continue to use the word REDSKIN. Attempting to take away that word WILL ACCOMPLISH NOTHING. Attempting to take away that word WILL NOT CHANGE THE FEELINGS OF THOSE THAT FEEL PREDJUDICE AGAINST NATIVE AMERICANS.

If the words "******", "*****", "honkey", and "spick" were outlawed, do you honestly think that would change the way people think?

I call this entire action "barking up the wrong tree". Taking away the vanity license plate of someone who used to play for the Washington Redskins will accomplish nothing whatsoever, except making that person pay a lower licensing fee.

-OC

[mojo]

Originally posted by DarkFury

Actually, in the "Negro Leagues", there was a team called the Atlanta Black Crackers which was a black version of the then "Atlanta Crackers" who were a predecessor the "Braves".

I guess they never could get "PC" right in Atlanta huh? :hihi:

http://www.negro-league.columbus.oh.us/media/teams/Atlanta.gif
http://www.negroleaguebaseball.com/1999/September/atlanta_black_crackers.html
there you have it...an extinct team is the example of another team with this sort of naming scheme.

interesting reading there tho, df. i'll be checking that out ;)

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by overclocked
If someone MEANS to offend, they will continue to use the word REDSKIN. Attempting to take away that word WILL ACCOMPLISH NOTHING. Attempting to take away that word WILL NOT CHANGE THE FEELINGS OF THOSE THAT FEEL PREDJUDICE AGAINST NATIVE AMERICANS.

If the words "******", "*****", "honkey", and "spick" were outlawed, do you honestly think that would change the way people think?

I call this entire action "barking up the wrong tree."

it's not. it's chipping away at the credibility of the epithet. it creates a social atmosphere in which it is less acceptable to say such things. that's worth something.

of course it won't knock out racism entirely. NOBODY THOUGHT IT WOULD. you're acting like the people pushing for this change think that's the case, and OF COURSE they don't.

it is a small step in the right direction. if it's a little less acceptable, some people will take notice and modify their behavior. it sends a message to the impressionable kids.

just because it doesn't do everything that needs to be done against racism doesn't mean it's not worth doing.