SUV's... Why??

[johnnymk]

What is the appeal of Sport Utility Vehicles? They are expensive, use lots of fuel and are rarely used as a four wheel drive vehicle.
Would somebody explain why they are still selling?

[molecularfire]

Great for practice parking. :P

[Grimm]

1) offer a great view point for driving, at the expense of other people view.

2) Offer more safety in an accident because of your greater mass, at the expense of the poor sod you just rammed and totaled.

3) Status symbol. Rather than be embarased by driving a perfectly functional, fuel efficent, shorter station waggon, they can be proud to drive an SUV, just like everyone else in their peer group.

4) Driving a larger vehical makes you immune to having to submit to driving courtesy. You can just "push" people out of your way by cutting into them. They have to move or get killed.

[chrissy]

Well, Donnie is wanting one. And his appeal to them is it's not a mini-van. I want a Pontiac Montana, a really nice 4wd minivan that seats 9. :) But I think Donnie, as a lot of people his age rememeber seeing the minivan being the end of freedom (family responsibilities, and maturity, etc) and youth when the minivan was the thing to buy a few years back. The SUV gives people the room and the cargo of the minivan but yet still can appeal to the youth that they need to hold on to.

[Grimm]

The whole "cargo room" thing is crap. As often as you need all that cargo room you could rent a U-Haul with the money you save by buying a smaller car. That's not even counting fuel.
If you REALLY need cargo room, buy a Toyota Tundra with an extended cab.

He is falling into the "SUV envy" that is killing our envirnment. Why can't people make a responsable choice any more?

How about a nice station wagon? An Outback will work fine and save you tons of money on gas. How about a roomy sedan? The Chevy Malibu LS seats 5 and has a fold down back seat for cargo if you need it. They run under $20K. Mileage is marginal but they make a nice family car.

So many good choices, why an SUV?

[chrissy]

Originally posted by Grimm
The whole "cargo room" thing is crap. As often as you need all that cargo room you could rent a U-Haul with the money you save by buying a smaller car. That's not even counting fuel.
If you REALLY need cargo room, buy a Toyota Tundra with an extended cab.

He is falling into the "SUV envy" that is killing our envirnment. Why can't people make a responsable choice any more?

How about a nice station wagon? An Outback will work fine and save you tons of money on gas. How about a roomy sedan? The Chevy Malibu LS seats 5 and has a fold down back seat for cargo if you need it. They run under $20K. Mileage is marginal but they make a nice family car.

So many good choices, why an SUV?

Well, I refuse to make excuses for him. But :) the ones he has given me are that he can take a seat out and have hauling room (we actually have use for that we do use the cargo space fully). And I would still beable to seat a lot of people in it like I want.

I am to the point where I am saying goodbye to the minivan and talking him into a GMC truck. I would rather have room for 6 and a truck bed than an SUV.

And as for the Outback, I wouldn't mind having one of those either. I like them. But, Donnie has flashbacks of riding on a tool box in the back of one.

Or was that me....

[dbax791]

Originally posted by johnnymk
What is the appeal of Sport Utility Vehicles? They are expensive, use lots of fuel and are rarely used as a four wheel drive vehicle.
Would somebody explain why they are still selling?

1. Comparable in price to a nice car.
2. V6 SUV's aren't horrible on mileage - I get 20 mpg.
3. Need to tow stuff like a boat or jetskis or a U-Haul trailer.
4. I gotta haul lots of crap from home depot, dog crates, TVs, etc. Definately don't wanna go to U-Haul every other week.
5. I use the 4-wheel at least once a month, and 3-4 times a month in the summer.

Now if you talk with people that have a 2WD Lexus RX300 "grocery-getter" without a tow hitch, then you have an argument :P

[Kim]

We camp alot, pull a boat, and go off roading all the time. We also have 2 kids and don't want a minivan. Our Grand Cherokee is perfect for us.

[El Scorcho]

Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
Smells like a steak, and seats thirty five?
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down
It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Hey, hey!
Twelve yards long, two lanes wide,
Sixty five tons of American pride!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports,
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
She blinds everybody wither her super high beams
She's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine
Canyonero! Canyonero! Canyonero!
Whoa, Canyonero! Whoa!

[sbp]

Lets whiny environmentalists know people still have free will in choosing a vehicle. :bigmouth:

[jase71]

I live half way up a nasty hill. In winter, when the roads are bad (and keep in mind this is Wisconsin) only a four wheel drive will make it up the hill. Cars end up parked 5-6 blocks away, at the bottom of the hill, every time we get a good snowstorm.

So we've got one tiny SUV, a Tracker. Good gas mileage.

And we've got a Chevy Blazer, amidsized SUV, which we also use to tow our boat during the summer.

Considering a car would neither tow our boat, nor make it home quite a few days each winter, SUVs seemed to be the logical choice.

[Grimm]

Originally posted by dbax791


1. Comparable in price to a nice car.
2. V6 SUV's aren't horrible on mileage - I get 20 mpg.
3. Need to tow stuff like a boat or jetskis or a U-Haul trailer.
4. I gotta haul lots of crap from home depot, dog crates, TVs, etc. Definately don't wanna go to U-Haul every other week.
5. I use the 4-wheel at least once a month, and 3-4 times a month in the summer.

Now if you talk with people that have a 2WD Lexus RX300 "grocery-getter" without a tow hitch, then you have an argument :P

1) No, I can find nice cars in the 20-25K range, but not SUVs.
2) 20mpg might have been good in the 70's or 80's but today, that just plain sucks.
3) Pickups can toe things too, so can many other vehicals.
4) Home Depot can arange delivery, it's not that expensive. Most everything I need to haul from Home Depot, crates, TVs, furnature, etc all fit in my sedan (mid sized).
5) I drove my Olds Cutlas Calais through 6" to a foot of mud for a mile when I needed to get somewhere, then back again without much problem. 4 wheel drive is nice but not necessary when you know how to drive for the conditions at hand.

I do have an argument. Why are you driving a vehical designed for recreation to and from work? What if people start driving industrial heavy equipment up and down the freeway (like those dumptrucks with the 12' tires) because they feel "safer"? Will you buy one too?

[Jenny]

(Grimm, I tease out of love...)

Does anyone else think this is a sore point with Grimm? ;)

[molecularfire]

Hey Grimm... was it you that I cut off with my Yukon. :P

[Grimm]

Originally posted by sbp
Lets whiny environmentalists know people still have free will in choosing a vehicle. :bigmouth:
If you have ever been rearended by one you wouldn't be saying that.

Would it be legal if I paid someone to tamper with your vehical to make you less safe when driving? Then why is it legal to pay more for a vehical that makes me less safe just by it being out there.

Tractors (the big trucks that haul all the goods from place to place) require special licences for the drivers and the vehicals. They pay more taxes and have stricter requirements. Why? Because they are more dangerous. An accident involving a big rig is always more serious. Why should SUVs be treated any differently? They are biger and more dangerous to the public than regular cars.

And hey, I have to breath that air you are trying to polute...

[OC]

They may be big and heavy, but at least they guzzle gas. :rolleyes:

-OC

[dbax791]

Originally posted by Grimm


1) No, I can find nice cars in the 20-25K range, but not SUVs.
2) 20mpg might have been good in the 70's or 80's but today, that just plain sucks.
3) Pickups can toe things too, so can many other vehicals.
4) Home Depot can arange delivery, it's not that expensive. Most everything I need to haul from Home Depot, crates, TVs, furnature, etc all fit in my sedan (mid sized).
5) I drove my Olds Cutlas Calais through 6" to a foot of mud for a mile when I needed to get somewhere, then back again without much problem. 4 wheel drive is nice but not necessary when you know how to drive for the conditions at hand.

I do have an argument. Why are you driving a vehical designed for recreation to and from work? What if people start driving industrial heavy equipment up and down the freeway (like those dumptrucks with the 12' tires) because they feel "safer"? Will you buy one too?

Man - what is fueling this anger towards SUV owners? A mid-size SUV fits my lifestyle, and I'm very happy with it.

1. So do you have a problem with people that buy 40K BMW's or Lexuses (Lexi?). My SUV cost 25K a couple years ago. Plus pickups leave your cargo in the open, unless you buy a "shell" and in that case then why not buy an SUV to begin with?

2-3. Well pick one. Can you find me a car that can tow a 5000lb payload and get significantly more than 20MPG. And a pickup can only hold 2 people (I'm not putting friends in "jump seats").

4. Yeah, cuz when I go to home depot, I REALLY want to waste my time at the store, arrange delivery, and then rearrange my work schedule so I can sit at home waiting for the 4-hour window when the dude may or may not show up. And sorry, I just couldn't fit a 32" TV or a large dog crate in my old Toyota.

5. Good for you. I prefer to drive in off-road or hazardous conditions with a car that was designed with that in mind.

And your industrial equipment argument is ludicrous. Choose a vehicle that is the best fit for your needs. I don't mind driving my SUV to work. I used to drive my econo-box to work and use the SUV on the weekends but I got sick of paying 2x insurance and 2x maintenance.

[eSDee]

Alright Grimm has a very valid point here. Most of you who have given your reasons seem to have pretty good reasons to have SUV's, however where Grimm and I are from(San Diego), there is hardly much good reason for a SUV. The people who own SUV's here are obnoxious and dangerous to everyone on the road. I can see all your points for having SUV's, but I gotta go with Grimm on this one.

[Nija]

I'd be driving a jeep right now... and the reason I would own an SUV... essentially... because I want to. I don't want to drive a truck. I don't want to drive a car. I don't want a minivan. It's what i like. I like cars too. but whatever.. it's personal prefrence. you drive what u want, you have to live with the reprecussions. now, if an suv driver thinks he/she can bully others around, that bull. I'd personally, let them hit me. They can pay for my car and health insurance, for their stupidity. hey, pick up my lost wages too. maybe u will learn how to drive then...

[IrishSS]

Originally posted by Grimm


4) Home Depot can arange delivery, it's not that expensive. Most everything I need to haul from Home Depot, crates, TVs, furnature, etc all fit in my sedan (mid sized).


The HD in our area charges $75 a delivery now... regardless of whats being delivered. Pretty damn spendy...

[TommyBoomfiger]

the argument that you get 4 wheel drive on an suv is pointless. have these people ever heard subaru's, audi quattro's, vw synchro's, bmw cxi's, mercedes 4motion, countless minivans and others. there is a 4wd or awd system for almost any budget in almost every class. they are more fuel efficient and have a much lower center or gravity. wagons offer more cargo space for those who need it and some even offer 3rd row seats for more passengers, and foldable 2nd row for even more cargo. i think grimm has a great idea, put higher taxes and fees and more training on suv's especially for those who do not need it. there really is no reason for a soccer mom to be driving an excursion because she needs the seats and cargo space and a freakin ladder to get in. i know a wagon or minivan can handle that. chicago has its occasional blizzard and ive had my share of experinces in all kinds of cars in heavy snow and ice. driving my rear wheel drive bmw 3 series is ok for driving if you know how. i drove my friends mercedes E3xx 4motion once and i was in love. it was so much more fun to drive than his grand cherokee. true, suv's have thier uses, just not for the general public. if i was into camping in remote places 4 or 5 times a year, there might be a reason for me to get an suv, but id rather get a subaru. there are plenty of uses for suv's, but in most cases you can use a wagon or pickup just as effectively.

[Kim]

I argue that you Can NOT use a pickup as effectively. Say we are heading to the lake for a day of waterskiing. Should we pull the boat with our pickup, and then drive another car seperatly with the family that won't fit in the truck? How is that saving gas? Also, do full size trucks get that much better gas mileage than suv's? My FIL has a new dodge truck that gets way worse mileage than my Jeep. (same size engine) In fact, his minivan gets worse mileage with it's 6 cylinder. And, I think if you'll check, you'll find that we already DO pay more for insurance than on smaller, non 4 wheel drive vehicles.

[LPMiller]

there are way too many SUV's out there, no lie.

Doesnt' meant some of those folks don't actually need one.

I loved 'em because I can actually see the road - I'm short, this is important. But the gas just sucks too much for me, and it's actually rather amazing what I can haul in my Civic.

There are too many on the road, and too many folks that can't drive them worth crap. And I had a perfectly good '74 black Super Beatle sandwiched by one, so I have a little bias.

There needs to be balance between free will, need, and responsibility. I don't know that you can legislate that, however.

[dbax791]

Originally posted by Kim
I argue that you Can NOT use a pickup as effectively. Say we are heading to the lake for a day of waterskiing. Should we pull the boat with our pickup, and then drive another car seperatly with the family that won't fit in the truck? How is that saving gas? Also, do full size trucks get that much better gas mileage than suv's? My FIL has a new dodge truck that gets way worse mileage than my Jeep. (same size engine) In fact, his minivan gets worse mileage with it's 6 cylinder. And, I think if you'll check, you'll find that we already DO pay more for insurance than on smaller, non 4 wheel drive vehicles.

No Kim, you got it all wrong. According to these folks, you need to make sure you pack your family/friends in a fuel-effiecient vehicle. Just rent a u-haul trailer for each rare occasion you go to the lake to haul your skis, tubes, coolers, jackets, etc...

Call a towing service to haul your boat each time you go to the lake. That way you can use your econo-box to drive to and from work.

And talk about fuel-wasters! Power boats go thru much more gas-per-hour than any SUV. You should be environmentally correct and get a rowboat. Just make sure everyone paddles REALLY fast to get the skier up :P

[Kim]

OMG...your reply made me laugh out loud. :D

[ironchef]

johnny, i'm surprised to see you raising such a topic. and here i thought i had you all figgered out.

grimm, it's a tough fight you're pickin', though i'm with you all the way. in addition to all the points you've mentioned already, the use of 4wd vehicles in places where there aren't already beaten paths helps degrade the ecosystem and promotes other fun things like erosion. ask any beach front dweller how much they value their dunes.

but these aren't valid points and should be mocked by those who live at the expense of others.

[Kim]

I thought back to when we were shopping for an SUV, and I remembered that we decided not to get a full sized. At first we were going to get a Durango, and then decided that was too much truck for us. We looked at our towing and passenger needs and found that the Cherokee was the perfect fit. We do not commute with the jeep, we have a 4 cylinder car that we use for work. I drive the jeep, and I am very concientious (wish there was a spell checker) of the size and power. I don't corner like I'm in an Italian sports car, and I don't talk on my cell phone while driving. I enjoy camping and off roading. I always pick up trash and leave the wild areas better than I found them. When we offroad, we take established "trails" so as not to ruin the area. Can I not be an SUV owner and be responsible too?

[johnnymk]

Hey, I could care less about how much fuel they use and whether the owners are cocky and/or are bullies. The only time they affect me is
when I am at certain intersections and I can't see around them to make a turn.
This is America and you should have the right to waste as much on something that you own. For me, though, they just aren't worth the extra money to purchase and to maintain.
I was just questioning why they have become so popular. All of the replies make sense to me now.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by Nija
you drive what u want, you have to live with the reprecussions.

Unfortunately, other people (usually dead) have to live with the reprecussions of people who drive SUVs ramming them. Most mid-sized cars ride lower than the bumbers of most SUVs, so in the case of an accident, the SUV invariably rides over the top of the car killing the people inside.

People buying SUVs force other people to have to buy equivalent vehicles or face the prospect of losing their life if involved in an accident. Also, some people are forced to buy larger vehicles just to see around those people that are driving SUVs.

I would argue, also, that most people that drive SUVs have no good reason for it. I could see those people that live in rural areas or go off road using/needing them, but they make up probably less than 5% of the people who own SUVs.

Where I live, most of the people own trucks, not mid-sized or small trucks but real trucks. All of them, however, use them. They haul hay, large equipment, etc. In fact, most people up here would laugh at a person driving a SUV. They don't really serve a purpose. When the people up here aren't driving a truck, they are driving a car that gets 30-40 mpg.

Also, the thing about 4 wheel drive... all it is meant for is getting you out of a problem you never should have gotten yourself into in the first place. In fact, it causes more problems then it really solves, because people are overconfident in their vehicles' ability. The people who 4x4 off road on this forum know what I'm talking about.

[jase71]

Originally posted by TommyBoomfiger
the argument that you get 4 wheel drive on an suv is pointless. have these people ever heard subaru's, audi quattro's, vw synchro's, bmw cxi's, mercedes 4motion, countless minivans and others. there is a 4wd or awd system for almost any budget in almost every class.

None of those tow my boat.

Any car that WILL tow my boat is, by requirement, a very large sedan with a V8. It will get gas mileage only in the same ballpark as my mid-sized SUV. It will cost at least as much as my SUV did, prbably more. And it WON'T have 4 wheel drive. Aside from the obvious winter driving, pulling a boat out of the water on a wet and slippery boat ramp can be next to impossible without 4 wheel drive.

We also have a small, fuel efficient SUV, a Tracker. We use that when we don't need the towing or carrying capacity of the Blazer, or when fuel efficiency is an issue. And believe me, if I'm in an accident in the Tracker, I'm NOT going to win.

Not all SUVs are behemoths like the Navigator. Like cars, they come in a variety of shapes and sizes.

If the argument against SUVs is that they're big and waste gas, that's fine. But there's a world of Cadillacs, sports cars, station wagons, Lincolns and other cars that are big, waste gas, or both too.
Check the gas mileage on a Porsche lately? Check the weight on a Lincoln Continental? Wanna compare either to my Tracker? Heck, even my Blazer will at least be in the ballpark of the Lincoln.

People who drive SUVs as status symbols obviously have issues to deal with. But you could say the same about folks who drive Porsches or BMWs. About all any of us REALLY needs is a stripped down Dodge Neon.
Anything more than that is a waste of money and gas. Right?

So, are we all trading in our cars for econoboxes tomorrow?

[Kim]

Yeah Jase...you said it MUCH better than I did! ;) :)

[styleee]

to everyone who cries "i need cargo room" i've got three words for ya full size van. nothing can compare to them.

oh, and they can tow pretty much anything you can dream of (depending on which engine you get.) you see, full size vans come in all sorts of different combos, depending on your needs.
have a big family? get three rows of bench seats. (seats 11)
need to tow a big boat or camper? bigger engine.
lots of cargo room? take out the bench seats, and there you go.

so according to everyone's arguments, if you are really just looking for the best vehicle to suit your needs, why doesn't everyone drive vans?

hmm?

oh, and i've never once had a problem in snow or any other weather condition with my front wheel drive econo car. the people who can't get up hills are those with oversized rwd boats, at least in my experience. and yes, i live in a very hilly, curvy area that often has bad winters.

[BrewMaster]

for those who say that SUV owners should pay extra to own them, they do, it's called registration. registration on an SUV is more than on my Volvo and rightly so.

the accident danger, don't buy a POS Hyundai and you won't die in a car crash. i have an '89 Volvo wagon. it's been in 2 accidents, never when i was in it (my mom's doing), and never a scratch on anyone in the car. sure an SUV is high and sort of protects you, but a Volvo is affordable and built to protect you. and i agree, SUVs are higher and a more dangerous if you get hit by one...but not if i'm in my Volvo. now i know my Volvo is not invincible, but i love knowing that it was built primarily around the idea that it needs to keep me safe, everythign else is secondary or tertiary.

my Volvo is a satation wagon, gets great gas mileage, can haul any damn thing i want (though i don't have a boat, but i doubt it would haul that), and is safe. i can't ask for anything more. but Volvo wagons aren't cheap, i know. my Volvo fits my needs. period.

and wtf are people doing pushing trucks over SUVs based on the arguments here? that's just stupid. i love trucks, but they are not more economical. they have their uses, but when we're arguing over gas, towing, people space, price, and safety, why are people who are against SUVs advocating trucks. i don't get it. they're in the same seat, if not worse than SUVs. :confused:

i personally think my mom should have her SUV taken from her. she doesn't need it. her Explorer is a "grocery getter" and a commuter vehicle. no need for it.

[johnnymk]

Does everyone realize that if America decided to get "practical" (living within their means, driving fuel efficient cheap vehicles, etc.) that this economy would collapse?. America's economy is built on EXCESS.

[leemaj]

Originally posted by dbax791


Now if you talk with people that have a 2WD Lexus RX300 "grocery-getter" without a tow hitch, then you have an argument :P

ok, well my parents bought one of those last week, and i must say its soooo comfortable. the seats are higher up, and there is more leg room in the back. gas milege is pretty good, and it is just more comfortable for going places.

[OC]

Originally posted by BrewMaster
for those who say that SUV owners should pay extra to own them, they do, it's called registration. registration on an SUV is more than on my Volvo and rightly so.

the accident danger, don't buy a POS Hyundai and you won't die in a car crash. i have an '89 Volvo wagon. it's been in 2 accidents, never when i was in it (my mom's doing), and never a scratch on anyone in the car. sure an SUV is high and sort of protects you, but a Volvo is affordable and built to protect you. and i agree, SUVs are higher and a more dangerous if you get hit by one...but not if i'm in my Volvo. now i know my Volvo is not invincible, but i love knowing that it was built primarily around the idea that it needs to keep me safe, everythign else is secondary or tertiary.

my Volvo is a satation wagon, gets great gas mileage, can haul any damn thing i want (though i don't have a boat, but i doubt it would haul that), and is safe. i can't ask for anything more. but Volvo wagons aren't cheap, i know. my Volvo fits my needs. period.

and wtf are people doing pushing trucks over SUVs based on the arguments here? that's just stupid. i love trucks, but they are not more economical. they have their uses, but when we're arguing over gas, towing, people space, price, and safety, why are people who are against SUVs advocating trucks. i don't get it. they're in the same seat, if not worse than SUVs. :confused:

i personally think my mom should have her SUV taken from her. she doesn't need it. her Explorer is a "grocery getter" and a commuter vehicle. no need for it. Careful there, Brew. That borders on logic, and you know how effective THAT is in here... :hihi:

-OC

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by BrewMaster
the accident danger, don't buy a POS Hyundai and you won't die in a car crash. i have an '89 Volvo wagon. it's been in 2 accidents, never when i was in it (my mom's doing), and never a scratch on anyone in the car. sure an SUV is high and sort of protects you, but a Volvo is affordable and built to protect you. and i agree, SUVs are higher and a more dangerous if you get hit by one...but not if i'm in my Volvo. now i know my Volvo is not invincible, but i love knowing that it was built primarily around the idea that it needs to keep me safe, everythign else is secondary or tertiary.


First, I'm sorry brew, I don't care how sturdy a car is, if its midline is lower than the other vehicle's bumper, in any kind of major impact, you will probably die. In a car to car accident, your Volvo will probably drive away most of the time, but against a larger vehicle, it will be going straight to the scrap heap.


Originally posted by BrewMaster
and wtf are people doing pushing trucks over SUVs based on the arguments here? that's just stupid. i love trucks, but they are not more economical. they have their uses, but when we're arguing over gas, towing, people space, price, and safety, why are people who are against SUVs advocating trucks. i don't get it. they're in the same seat, if not worse than SUVs. :confused:


As for the truck comment, I suppose that that is directed toward me. Unfortunately, you took the comment completely out of context. Where I live, people actually need the larger vehicles, but they only use them for a specific purpose. Otherwise, they use smaller, front-wheel drive cars which get better mileage--they even perform better in inclement weather.

But I ask you, how many people do you know that use their SUVs to pull 5-10 ton trailers, or load a ton of hay using their immense cargo space? :heh:

[mr2fan]

hey ahh quit complaining about SUVs
I love my 4runner cause its big and tough. Guess what, no matter what you say I will continue to drive it because i like to. If you dont like, dont complain in a little forum. Maybe write a letter to your congressmen or become one. Beyond that, I wont drive an economy car until I am forced to by law. WHen you can manage that we'll talk. Oh yeah, i gotta go my 5.0 rustang awaits
lol

[TommyBoomfiger]

wow jase, its nice to see that you can use the quote feature of vbulletin. too bad you didnt read my whole post before you quoted me. i said that not everyone has a use for an suv and definately not as many as are bought. most suv's never go offroad, as they are designed to do, and never tow anything, as towing is another function of thier design. and i have seen quite a few people use minivans and a few use cars to tow thier boats and trailers. im glad that you use your suv to do what they are designed for and car makers should continue to produce such vehicles to accomidate your needs, but not everyone needs one. but thats the good thing about living in the US, you have the right to drive what you want as long as you dont take away the rights of others

[jase71]

Originally posted by TommyBoomfiger
wow jase, its nice to see that you can use the quote feature of vbulletin. too bad you didnt read my whole post before you quoted me.


I did read the whole thing. I didn't feel I needed to quote the whole thing, because I only wanted to respond to part of it. I won't make that mistake anymore. I'll quote in in entirety from now on...



i said that not everyone has a use for an suv and definately not as many as are bought. most suv's never go offroad, as they are designed to do,

Actually, very few SUVs are designed to go offroad anymore. They all like to ADVERTISE their ability to go offroad, but very few are designed with even the slightest thought that people will use them that way.

For example, you can rule out pretty much anything with independant front suspension as being designed to go offroad. IFS doesn't give the articulation and travel required to do well off-road. It provides great on-road handling, but is a hindrance off the pavement. The one exception to the IFS rule might be the Jeep Liberty. But even it can't compare to it's older brethren.
Most SUVs just aren't really made to be used off-pavement, despite what the Marketing guys like to tell us. And all you really have to do to confirm this is look at the tires they roll of the lot with.

That leaves you with solid front axle vehicles. The Wrangler and Cherokee, larger pickups, a couple of the HUGE Suvs that are too big to go offroad effectively, and older SUVs that you can't buy for the most part anymore.



and never tow anything, as towing is another function of thier design. and i have seen quite a few people use minivans and a few use cars to tow thier boats and trailers.

All goes back to towing capacity. Most minivans and cars don't have a towing capacity of over 2000 pounds. A few minivans will hit 3500. Heck, most cars aren't rated to tow ANYTHING anymore, even though they have the power to do it. They don't have the suspension, and more importantly, the brakes, to be able to do it.

My Blazer will tow 5000 pounds, which leaves me a nice safety margin with my boat. I wouldn't have that safety margin using a car or minivan with a smaller towing capacity. You don't want to tow anything too close to your max tow rating if you can help it.
Using a car or minivan to tow my boat would make me MORE dangerous on the road, not less.

The other upside to towing a boat is one I mentioned earlier. 4 wheel drive. There have been a few occasions where the only way I was able to get my boat out of the water up the steep, slick ramp was to drop the Blazer into 4 wheel drive. WIthout it, I just sat there and spun once the boat left the water enough to put it's full weight on the hitch. I've seen other people in vans and cars and 2x4 pickups do exactly the same thing. The best way NOT to make friends on a Saturday in June is to get stuck on a boat ramp with a line of other boaters waiting to use the ramp, while you sit and spin...



im glad that you use your suv to do what they are designed for and car makers should continue to produce such vehicles to accomidate your needs, but not everyone needs one. but thats the good thing about living in the US, you have the right to drive what you want as long as you dont take away the rights of others

You're exactly right, Tommy... and I didn't mean to attack you or your ideas when I responded. But it irritates me sometimes that people (all people, not you Tommy) look at what I drive, and assume that it's a status symbol, or that I don't use it for it's real purpose. I do. We put a lot of thought into what we bought, and believe me, if there was anything OTHER than a SUV that would do the job just as well, we'd have bought it. I'm not the trendy type, and I tend to buy things against the trend whenever possible. In this case, it wasn't practical to do it.

So before anyone judges too harshly the Soccer Mom picking up her kids in an Excursion, take a look and see if there's some mud on it, or if there's a hitch. Maybe her husband tows a horse trailer or a boat with it on the weekends. Maybe he uses it to go hunting in the boonies several weeks a year, and just deals with the size for the rest of the year.

And if we're judging the practicality and safety of other people's vehicles, let's also judge the BMWs and Porsches and Cadillacs. They don't even have additional uses like an SUV. They just get you there in more style, and faster. Is that any more cost efficient than an SUV? An SUV might be big, a Porsche might go 150mph. Who needs a car that can go faster than 80mph? Both will kill you just as easily if driven incorrectly.

But what you decide to purchase and drive is your decision. Even if it's not the most logical one. No one buys at Porsche based on logic. It's your right to buy something impractical if you want to...

Education is the key... the problem is, most people don't realize HOW impractical their SUV is for what they do. And they might choose differently if they were less concerned about "style" and "status".

But don't worry. SUVs are gradually merging back into station wagons, and will be out of style in a few years anyway...

[OC]

Why do I dislike SUVs? Because most people that own them feel invulnerable, and turn into bullies behind the wheel. We got some decent snow over the weekend, for Seattle anyway, and most of the vehicles that spun out or went off the road were SUVs. And on the way to work this morning, most of the speeders and tailgaters I saw were driving SUVs.

Add me to the camp that thinks we should have special training for SUV drivers.

-OC

[Merlin]

SUV = Slow Ugly Vehicle!

They just represent more obstacles for me to pass on the open road.

Ever get stuck behind one of those things going around a curve? Talk about clogging up the roads, well except for those that seem to roll over all the time.

But on a more serious note: the main problem with SUVs is adverse selection. As many have pointed out they are precieved as more safe (and very well may be) in the event of a crash. As a result those that are most likely to get into crashes (really bad drivers) get them. Bottom line is you then get the slowest and most unwieldy (that's right unwieldy as trying to swirve and miss the accident rather than plowing right through it or God forbid stop in time)vehicles being driven by the least competent drivers.

Now I know many of you will get pissed and point out how well your SUV handles and brakes - unless you drive an X5 than it's not true and how good you are at driving which you might be. But look at the average SUV driver and it ain't too pretty.

Me, I drive the smallest/nimblest car I could afford, a Z3. The smallest possible "target" that just tries to put you far in the rear view mirror.

[Jihforce]

It seems that most people that complain about SUVs here are people who drive smaller cars. Heehee. :P
Well, I have to say that I am not a very big fan of SUV. Granted, many of you folks here have a SUV and use it for the right reasons, many of the OTHER people out there don't. I think that the are RULES that need to be followed when owning an SUV. ie, DO NOT PARK YOUR HUNKING EXPEDITION IN A COMPACT PARKING SPACE. That is what pisses me off. SUVs suck, but not all SUVs. Just the unusually large ones. I really DO NOT see the point of OWNING anything larger than a 4-runner/grand cherokee/x5/rx300/m430/etc... Unless of course, you have a family of 10+ and own a huge boat that you want to take to the lake every summer. I don't see why it has to be a daily driver. I don't see why a woman or man that is 5' tall should be driving a EXCURSION.
Large SUVs are dangerous, specially when they are driven by people that can't drive. I know my limitations. I don't think could go around driving a Escalade without running over someone else's car. Why can't people admit that and drive within their means? Most people think they are better drivers than they really are.
Anyway, I think Grimm has valid points. But I don't think people think of that when making a decision. Specially the gas mileage part. I mean, most people don't recycle, why would they even care about destryoing the environment?
Yes, i'm the type of driver that doesn't like parking between SUVs and/or Minivans because I can't always see cars coming when I am backing out of my parking space. I hate SUV drivers that like to hog up two compact spaces and I don't like them tailgating me either. I've been hit by large SUVs and I have to say that it isn't fun. I do think they should have higher insurance premiums because of their abilities to damage other people's cars. Whether they are or not, I have not idea. But they should if they aren't already.

[adowding]

How many people have seen a few inches of snow and most suvs are going 20+mph faster then all other vehicles. Albeit the suv may be superior in these conditions, but the total stopping distance is much much further then an average sedan. SUV's in mild-severe weather conditions cause more accidents then they avoid.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by Jihforce
It seems that most people that complain about SUVs here are people who drive smaller cars. Heehee. :P


I don't, though I might get one in the near future. But then again, I'm starting to buy into the argument that most people, MOST, who drive SUVs seem to be bad drivers. There does seem to be a connection there. What it is, I can't say for sure, but it seems to be there. :shrug:

I personally have a truck that only gets 11 mpg, but I only drive it when I NEED to. I certainly don't commute with it. And when driving it, I drive more conservatively, because I know that if I happen to make a mistake driving, chances are that someone would die. Even someone driving a Volvo. :heh:


Originally posted by adowding
How many people have seen a few inches of snow and most suvs are going 20+mph faster then all other vehicles.

I've seen idiots try that. And they usually end up in a ditch or field somewhere.


Originally posted by mr2fan
hey ahh quit complaining about SUVs
I love my 4runner cause its big and tough. Guess what, no matter what you say I will continue to drive it because i like to. If you dont like, dont complain in a little forum. Maybe write a letter to your congressmen or become one. Beyond that, I wont drive an economy car until I am forced to by law. WHen you can manage that we'll talk. Oh yeah, i gotta go my 5.0 rustang awaits lol

Haha, just as it is your right to drive whatever you feel like driving, it is my right to call you an idiot if I don't think that you have a good reason for driving it. As for writing a congressman, that is quite useless. I've already contacted mine, and he told me that unless I could pay him the equivalent in kickbacks to what the car companies pay him, there is nothing he could do for me.
:rolleyes: