questions for the bimmer guys

[mr2fan]

allright for the longest time i have been driving my celica and dreaming of an mr2 turbo. With a solid accident under my belt, i doubt my parents will ever get me one now. I was wondering if you guys had any good bimmer forums. The prices appear reasonable, and I would consider buying one now. I have no knowledge of them however. Can anyone explain the differences between the models and naming systems used. I could prolly get about 7k together by the end of summer. i want something sporty-2door or light sedan. ANy suggestions. Its also sort of cool ebing able to say you drive a BMW. I cant say that about my yoda, although it does have the quite popular supra as a cousin, but that unfortunately isnt good enough

thanks for any help
-later

[spigidygak]

First off, check out these two sites www.bimmer.org and bmwworld.com Now for the car nomenclature. Basically for bimmers that made it to the us sort of run like this. There's the obvious: 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 series that have been sent out here. 3 series have had uh. . . few generations of 'em e30, e36, e46 *current model*. 318's and I believe 320's are both 4 bangers. 323, 325, 328 and 330 are inline sixers. basically the number is the size of the engine, 318=1.8 liter, 330=3.0 liter etc. If the car just has an "i" after it like 323i its a saloon err sedan. If its got an "is" or "ci" next to it its a coupe. And if its got a "ti" stay away. . . hehe those are the hatchbacks. 5 series sort of run the similar way, different chasis *don't know 'em off the top o' mah head*. But the 525 and current 530 use inline 6's. The 530's in the older generation used a v8. The 540 has a v8. The 6 series is not in production anymore but was in the 80's. It's basically a two door gt car. I beileve the models they had were a 635 and m6. . . maybe something else too can't remember. And now I'm assuming you won't be wanting to get a 7 or 8 series since those will cost you more than your $7k budget. You'll probably want to look into a 3 series coupe. . . but for around $7k you'll probably be looking into the e30 body style. Problem with those are reliability. They look pretty nice but if you got problems, you got problems with them. So you'll probably want to seriously look into the time and money you'll be putting into the car after you buy it. Hope that helps, and hapoo correct me on everything I said wrong :P.

[Apex]

Originally posted by mr2fan
allright for the longest time i have been driving my celica and dreaming of an mr2 turbo.

Buy my Mr2 turbo. ;)

[brain]

Originally posted by Apex


Buy my Mr2 turbo. ;)

You mean the one that has the thrashed suspension, the engine suffering from a mysterious ping and has been in 3 major accidents?

[Blu]

Originally posted by mr2fan
...want something sporty-2door or light sedan...
BMW and light generally don't go together...

[TommyBoomfiger]

Originally posted by Blu
BMW and light generally don't go together...

true, but in bmw's case, its usually still very sporty. as spigs said, watch out for problems in bimmers. they are excellent cars IF YOU TAKE GOOD CARE OF THEM. this means taking care of problems before they start which may seem more expensive at first, but thats the only way the car will be good to you. if you wait for problems to occur, they will usually be more expensive to fix and cause other side effects. bimmers require more maintenece and money than most cars, but will last longer and be more fun to drive than most IMO. on the other had, toyotas generally need less maintenence than other cars do and with proper (almost minimal compared to a bmw) care will also last you a very long time.

[Merlin]

I've had a Z3 for about four years or so and highly reccommend it. Considering your budget, a 98 or 99 Z3 might work, especially if you get the four banger. It has less power but is typically a lot cheaper with lower insurance rates.

I have the four cyl. 1998 Z3 and sometimes wish it had more punch but it does get the job done.

Now selling the parents on it could be tough.

Also, I want to echo what has already been said - maintenance for this baby will cost you some money. When you bring it in for an oil change you'll have to pay more for "special filters" and this applies to every item on the car. Brakes, clutches, etc. Routine services are also several hundred $$$. And there is really no getting around these expenses.

BMWs are great! I love mine like a true member of the family - oh waitI don't really like my family as much as the car. That Ultimate Driving Experience BS is true. But make sure you know what you are getting yourself into before buying.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by TommyBoomfiger
... bimmers require more maintenece and money than most cars, but will last longer and be more fun to drive than most IMO ...

are there certain maintenance procedures that Bimmers particularly need more than regular cars?? Are you talking about regular check ups/oil changes etc. OR is there some sort of bimmer specific maintenance?? Just like Mr2fan, I'm seriously considering getting an old used 3 series in about 4 years. So I'm curious. Could you be more specific about how to care for a bimmer??

[Merlin]

But to answer your question, I don't know about any specific BMW issue(s) that you need to be aware of. There is just the common stuff that all cars need, BMWs are just more expensive for that.

Even if you bring it someplace cheap, the oil change is $50+. Forget doing it yourself, you need special tools to reset the on board computer. The inspections are expensive as well.

[Jihforce]

Yup, Yup. That is why I got mine new. Free maintenance included. I'm very tempted not to keep the car around after the lease expires (free maintenance ends). When it comes to the used ones, you should make sure everything is functional and working smoothly. Like everyone else said. BMWs are great cars when they run. When they don't, they are just a burden on your wallet. The newer the model, the more hightech it is, the less likely you'll be able to take it to just any mechanic. I just hope my baby doesn't fail me til my lease is up :P I already had one issue 6 months into my lease. Had to get my break drum replaced.

[Nanotech9]

Originally posted by Merlin
But to answer your question, I don't know about any specific BMW issue(s) that you need to be aware of. There is just the common stuff that all cars need, BMWs are just more expensive for that.

Even if you bring it someplace cheap, the oil change is $50+. Forget doing it yourself, you need special tools to reset the on board computer. The inspections are expensive as well.

merlin has spoken, but happens to be completely wrong :)

OK, d00d here's what you're gonna be interested in... a car like min or Hapoo's (which happen to be itdentical).

I drive a '91 318is. its a 4-banger 1.8 liter, hence the 318. The 325 is a 2.5 liter straight 6. The "s" designation is the "SPORT", which usually includes upgraded wheels (BBS "basket weve style), sport seats (recaro style), and a rear spoiler among other things.

The 318is weighs in at 2600lbs. and has about 136HP and about the samel Lbs. or torque. Not super fast, but its light and handles VERY well. the body is very digid, and good for AUTO-Crossing.

You can expect to pay about $5k for a NICE '91 318is, and about the same for a nice '91 325is.

the IS is a 2-door bodystyle. gets about 25 - 30 MPG.

Oil changing is VERY VERY easy. the oil filter is an ACTUAL FILTER element, not like normal cars. You unscrew the top off the oil canister, replace the element, a couple of o-rings, and bolt the top back on. the drain plug is EASILY accessible from the front of the car w/o jacking it up.

Recommended oil is MOBILE 1 Synthetic 20w - 50w, at about $4 (x5 quarts) + a $5 filter. so about $25 for an oil change. Theres a little trick to reset the service light. You can connect 2 pins in a diagnostics plug to shut them off. takes 45 seconds to do it. I've done it myself. Does the exact same thing as the little reset tool that sells for $50. :D

go to www.roadfly.com for the forums there... or for the e30 3series body style, click on this link:

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e30/

[Nanotech9]

BTW...

the '91 (ONLY!) 318i/is has the M42 motor (found in '92 -94ish? 318 cars) and it uses a TIMING CHAIN. This needs replacing maybe one in the cars lifetime.

the 325 6cyl motors use a timing belt and need to be replaced every 60k mi.

[boba world]

From what I've heard, BMW's are plagued with all the lil bitch problems. This includes bulbs going out, electrical systems getting jacked, tranny tweaks, etc. My 323ci is only 2 years old, but has spent considerable time @ the shop already. Just a week ago, my ignition system went bad on me and the car didn't even start!
I would say that BMW's DO have some problems- If you have the knowledge and resources to deal with them, you will enjoy it immensely. By the way, as stated above, the "Ultimate Driving Machine BS" is the REAL DEAL.

[ArkiStan]

Originally posted by boba world
From what I've heard, BMW's are plagued with all the lil bitch problems....

yeah that seems to be the general consensus.



Originally posted by boba world
... If you have the knowledge and resources to deal with them, you will enjoy it immensely. By the way, as stated above, the "Ultimate Driving Machine BS" is the REAL DEAL.

And that is why I still want to get one. :D

[Cantacuzene]

My filthy rich German friend hates BMW. He says the uber-rich Germans look at BMW the same way we look at Ford. I asked him what they drive then, and he said "Mercedez only."

[Blu]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
My filthy rich German friend hates BMW. He says the uber-rich Germans look at BMW the same way we look at Ford. I asked him what they drive then, and he said "Mercedez only."

And his opinion should matter to someone in the US, buying a used car because???

[Nanotech9]

ok sure - like mercedes can perform like a BMW - hahahahaha...

dood - take a 1991 mercedes, under $10k, and a 1991 BMW 318is or 325is ($5k MAX) and the BMW will out perform the Mercedez.

I'm suprized Mr. Uber-rich boy doesnt drive a ferrari... or at LEAST a Lotus. Mercedes makes big trucks and crap - who wants to drive a mercedes? (ok, i do, but i would still like a BMW over a Merc.)

Anyhoo, mercedes interiors look like they were designed in the '70s :rolleyes:

[whitak24]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
My filthy rich German friend hates BMW. He says the uber-rich Germans look at BMW the same way we look at Ford. I asked him what they drive then, and he said "Mercedez only."
I don't know what cars Germans prefer. however, i do know that a guy i know was working in germany for about a year, so the company was going to buy him a car. he checked stuff out and a BMW was about the cheapest thing he could get -- even less than a VW. basically, he said they are considered just a normal car over there; not really anything special.
anyway, the company ended up getting him a VW b/c they thought it would look bad to their employees in the US to have someone driving a company BMW.
but i agree that shouldn't really matter to someone buying a car in the US. it's just an interesting story.

[TommyBoomfiger]

Originally posted by ArkiStan
are there certain maintenance procedures that Bimmers particularly need more than regular cars?? Are you talking about regular check ups/oil changes etc. OR is there some sort of bimmer specific maintenance?? Just like Mr2fan, I'm seriously considering getting an old used 3 series in about 4 years. So I'm curious. Could you be more specific about how to care for a bimmer??

There is no BMW specific maintenece. Do some research before you buy a car. Check out consumer reports, BMW specific websites and forums like the ones Spigs and Nano posted, www.edmunds.com and when youre ready to buy, Carfax.com . Follow the maintenece schedule in the owners manual and you should be fine. If there are any problems with the car they will show up in an indicator or when you go for a check up.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
My filthy rich German friend hates BMW. He says the uber-rich Germans look at BMW the same way we look at Ford. I asked him what they drive then, and he said "Mercedez only."
I don't know about that. My gf's roommate is an exchange student from Germany and she says BMWs are really nice cars in Germany too. Maybe cuz your friend is FILTHY rich so he's being snooty or something. I think when it comes to cars, its all preference. ie, for me, I wouldn't spend a luxury price tag for non-luxury brands. I basically wouldn't ever get a S2000. I know the car is not bad, but I just can't justify forking out 35k for a Honda.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
ok sure - like mercedes can perform like a BMW - hahahahaha...

dood - take a 1991 mercedes, under $10k, and a 1991 BMW 318is or 325is ($5k MAX) and the BMW will out perform the Mercedez.

I'm suprized Mr. Uber-rich boy doesnt drive a ferrari... or at LEAST a Lotus. Mercedes makes big trucks and crap - who wants to drive a mercedes? (ok, i do, but i would still like a BMW over a Merc.)

Anyhoo, mercedes interiors look like they were designed in the '70s :rolleyes:

I don't know, I don't think you can compare MBs with BMW. They just drive differently. ie, a C-class MB feels sluggish while a 3-series feels light and quick. But I think the interior of a MB is much more plush than BMWs. MBs are aimed towards luxury while BMWs are targeted towards performance. To be quite honest, I wanted a c-230 over my 325i. I am not a big performance buff. I just want a nice, comfortable ride. I only got the 325i cuz MB put me on a 3 month waiting list for the freaking C230. (can't afford the C320) :D

[TommyBoomfiger]

Originally posted by Merlin
Also, I want to echo what has already been said - maintenance for this baby will cost you some money. When you bring it in for an oil change you'll have to pay more for "special filters" and this applies to every item on the car. Brakes, clutches, etc. Routine services are also several hundred $$$. And there is really no getting around these expenses.

BMWs are great! I love mine like a true member of the family - oh waitI don't really like my family as much as the car. That Ultimate Driving Experience BS is true. But make sure you know what you are getting yourself into before buying.

I agree with you that routine maintenece does get pricey, but if you tech tell you that you need "special" parts and filters, they are full of it. I cut my bills in half by getting all of my parts from other places. Off hand i can only think of Bavarian Autosport (http://www.bavarianautosport.com). I end up with OEM or better parts at a fraction of the dealer price. I usually take the car in for inspection and tell them "I DONT want any work done on my car until I OK IT!!!. and make sure they hear this. This way they have to call you before any work is done on the car. Tell them something has come up and I will bring my car back in a week. My dealership sometimes charges me for the inspection then when i bring it back, they include that charge in work completed. During the week between the inspection and the actual work, i order the parts and tell the dealer exactly what i want them to complete and how to do it. The service at BavAuto is excellent and they usually tell you exactly what you need including all the little parts which you might not think of when you buy a part. You need to be careful with dealers as they will take every chance to sqeeze money out of you. I've seen people get charged $50 for windshield wipers.
As far as oil changes go, I've done this myself easily. I needed to jack my car up, but thats because my E36 is lower than the E30. I've even taken apart and reassembled things like the grille/bumper/headlight assembly and the complete dash with ease. I wouldnt even know where to start on the dash on my 98 corolla and the dealer wants $200+ to fix a light in the dash. I had the dash in my bimmer out and back in less than an hour without any previous experience or instructions.

EDIT: Someone posted that you need a special tool to reset the Oil Service lights. Technically you dont really need to reset this light, but if you want to (this is recommeded), you can get a tool for $50-150. I have a friend who never reset his light but would change the oil every 3000 miles for his E30 for over 173K miles. My Oil Service indicator tells me I still have a little while to go before i need to service it and I've gone over 6000 miles. So if someone just wants to change it at 3000 miles and skip the oil check light. I've gotten my oil changed at Jiffy Lube at thier regular price ($15-20 i dont remember) but not all locations do the reset service according to the people there. They also told me this is because most of thier customers are return customers and if they did this service most people will wait till the light comes on which can very often be longer than 3000 miles. Thats not good business for them.

[TommyBoomfiger]

Originally posted by Jihforce
I don't know, I don't think you can compare MBs with BMW. They just drive differently. ie, a C-class MB feels sluggish while a 3-series feels light and quick. But I think the interior of a MB is much more plush than BMWs. MBs are aimed towards luxury while BMWs are targeted towards performance. To be quite honest, I wanted a c-230 over my 325i. I am not a big performance buff. I just want a nice, comfortable ride. I only got the 325i cuz MB put me on a 3 month waiting list for the freaking C230. (can't afford the C320) :D
You just said what I've been trying to say for an hour, but vBullitin keeps logging me out. I was also going to add a few points.
BMW and Mercedes are co-dependant of each other. Thier direct competition force the two to create better and better cars while still focusing on slightly different targets. BMW makes quality cars with emphasis on sport. MB makes quality cars with a focus on plush luxury. But both are in direct competition as seen in the following model classes: 3 and 5 series and X5(sport with luxury options) vs C, E and ML classes (luxury with sport options), M vs AMG, S class vs 7 series and SL vs 8 series. Ok, the last one is grabbing at straws, but a perfect example is the M vs AMG. In the early 90's the 500E would whoop the M5 IMO, but now the M5 will hand the E55 its ass on a platter.

These rules only apply to US models, in Europe, you can get a BMW or MB in an econobox version. They both have models which are small, without leather or all the things we see standard here. So as far as the opinion of that uber rich german looking down at bimmers is kinda stupid and irrelevent

[Cantacuzene]

I think he was only talking about high end models. No one in America would compare a stock mustang to a Z06. He was basically saying that the SL600 is a lot nicer car than 750il, and he is probably correct. It also costs more too though. The theory I've always had is go for the best car you can afford, and be happy with it.

[TommyBoomfiger]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
I drive a '91 318is. its a 4-banger 1.8 liter, hence the 318. The 325 is a 2.5 liter straight 6. The "s" designation is the "SPORT", which usually includes upgraded wheels (BBS "basket weve style), sport seats (recaro style), and a rear spoiler among other things...

...the IS is a 2-door bodystyle. gets about 25 - 30 MPG....
I may be wrong but isnt the "s" designation for short wheelbase (coupe)? I've seen lots of E30's with the "s" and no special rims or sport seats. BMW coupes have a stronger more rigid chassis due to the design with only 2 doors.
My understanding of BMWs trimlines are:
s=short wheelbase
l=long wheelbase
c=convertable (coupe in newer models)
i=injection (fuel)
t=touring (hatchback, wagon i.e. 318ti)
M=MotorSport
i dont know all that much about the E30 and model designations may change over time, but thats how I always understood it. Is the "s" shown on the model badge or just on the title? I'm not saying yours isnt a sport model, just wondering if there are different versions which say s.

[Blu]

Originally posted by whitak24

I don't know what cars Germans prefer. however, i do know that a guy i know was working in germany for about a year, so the company was going to buy him a car. he checked stuff out and a BMW was about the cheapest thing he could get -- even less than a VW. basically, he said they are considered just a normal car over there; not really anything special.
anyway, the company ended up getting him a VW b/c they thought it would look bad to their employees in the US to have someone driving a company BMW.
but i agree that shouldn't really matter to someone buying a car in the US. it's just an interesting story.

I think the important thing to remember when you refer to cars in Europe and the level of sophistication associated with a certain brand is the diversity of the brand. European car companies typically have cars in Europe that aren't available here. If you want a crappy Mercedes, they got 'em. If you want a pricey VW, you can find that too. Also, just b/c someone is from Germany doesn't make them the expert on German cars. I don't pretend to know anything about most American cars, and often defer to others that know better when I'm asked about them.

Blu

[mr2fan]

thanks for all the help guys. i think you have helped ot make my decision much easier. I will prolly stick to cheap jap crap cars until i can afford the maintenance on a BMW. It would be mainly me working on it, and i just dont have the cash to devote to the car if anything comes up. I am going to keep an eye open though, if i can find a nice 3series thats a creampuff, id defianetly jump for the opportunity. I just need to find a BMW guy to work on it as well, jap cars are simple to work on, and it has saved me large sums of money already.
thanks

[Nanotech9]

Originally posted by TommyBoomfiger

I may be wrong but isnt the "s" designation for short wheelbase (coupe)? I've seen lots of E30's with the "s" and no special rims or sport seats. BMW coupes have a stronger more rigid chassis due to the design with only 2 doors.
My understanding of BMWs trimlines are:
s=short wheelbase
l=long wheelbase
c=convertable (coupe in newer models)
i=injection (fuel)
t=touring (hatchback, wagon i.e. 318ti)
M=MotorSport
i dont know all that much about the E30 and model designations may change over time, but thats how I always understood it. Is the "s" shown on the model badge or just on the title? I'm not saying yours isnt a sport model, just wondering if there are different versions which say s.

well, several years in the 80's there wasnt a true "s" version of the e30, although you could still get a "sport" package. In 91 i believe the "is" came standar with at least the sport seats, and the Spoiler i know for sure. I know some people will take a 2 door "i" version and put an "is" spoiler on it, and sometimes BBS or other wheels, and leave the seats the same...

trut is, i'm not completely sure what all the "s" came with other than it being 2door, w/ a spoiler, and "shadowline trim" (car colored trim around the windows instead of chrome)... we've tried to figure it out on the forums, but we're still unsure...

BTW, asian import cars also are HIGH on repair costs - sometimes as much as a BMW, especially for the newer cars... and they're harder to work on yourself.

[mr2fan]

Originally posted by Nanotech9

BTW, asian import cars also are HIGH on repair costs - sometimes as much as a BMW, especially for the newer cars... and they're harder to work on yourself.


If this is true, then im gonna get my bimmer. I have only had experience with toyotas from 93 and earlier. I have found them to be extremely reliable and easy to fix. If the bimmers require about the same amount of work, then ill prolly get one. I love the look of a freshly painted bimmer shining in the sun
-thanks
later

[Nanotech9]

yeah - i think a '1991 and earlier bimmer would be easier to work on than a newer asian import. the asian imports are SOOO packed in the engine compartment, heck, i can hardly change the oil on asian imports...