Russians threat to pull out of the Olympics

[chrissy]

By LARRY SIDDONS
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Angered by a string of decisions against its athletes, Russia threatened Thursday to pull out of the Winter Olympics and might not compete in the Athens Games if its concerns are not addressed.

Russian Olympic Committee president Leonid Tyagachiov said he told IOC president Jacques Rogge that his nation was "greatly unappreciated" in the Olympics.

The comments came at a news conference just hours after one of the nation's top athletes, cross-country skier Larissa Lazutina, was disqualified from the 20-kilometer relay because of high levels of hemoglobin found in a pre-race blood test.

"If decisions are not made and issues we raised not resolved, the Russian team will not play hockey, will not run 30 kilometers, will look very negatively on other factors," Tyagachiov said.

He said there was a 24-hour window to address the situation, and that if Russia left Salt Lake City it probably would not compete in Athens in the next Summer Games.


"Once you leave, it is not easy to come back in," he said.

Later, Vitaly Smirnov, an IOC vice president from Russia, tempered Tyagachoiv's remarks, saying there was no ultimatum "not 24 hours or 48 hours."

However, he said the Russian team wanted Rogge to write a letter to Tyagachoiv "and address our concerns."

IOC officials were meeting to discuss the complaints, but did not immediately comment.

The Russian men's hockey team is scheduled to play the United States in the semifinals on Friday, and a 30-kilometer women's cross-country event is set for Sunday.

Tyagachiov said that while Lazutina's hemoglobin count was just above the legal limit, she was not guilty of doping.

"We are clean," he said. "We have nothing to hide."

A urine test on Lazutina will determine whether her case will be considered a drug positive. Results were expected Friday; she was scheduled to compete in the 30-kilometer race.

Lazutina, who has already won two silvers at these games to increase her career medal total to nine, last raced on Feb. 15 in the 5-kilometer pursuit.

She was hoping for a record-tying 10th medal, but her disqualification knocked four-time defending champion Russia out of Thursday's relay event.

But Tyagachiov was upset by more than the Lazutina case.

He made repeated references to the figure skating judging dispute, in which Russia'a Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze won the pairs' competition but had to share the gold medal with Canada's Jamie Sale and David Pelletier.

"This was a new decision that was practically unprecedented," he said. "We went along with the decision and tried to look at it objectively. ... But we have only so much patience."

Tyagachiov also referred to what he said was a high number of Russian athletes picked for drug tests and an unspecified ruling by a goal judge in ice hockey.

"I think we are seeing a witch hunt," he said.

Smirnov warned against taking his country's complaints too lightly.

"Without Russia, the Olympic Games will be lost," he said.

Tyagachiov said he would meet with top officials of the International Ice Hockey Federation, the International Skating Union and the international ski federation FIS to discuss his complaints.

"We defend our honor," he said.

He also said that if the same rules that led to duplicate golds in pairs skating were applied to the cross-country relay, Russia should share that gold with race winner Germany.

"I told Rogge that since the Canadian figure skaters were awarded a second gold medal, by the same logic our relay should get a gold, too, since it's been dominant for so long," he said. "Or if this is not an 'objective' solution, why not stage a new relay on Saturday?"

The Ukrainian team also did not start event because Valentina Shevchenko failed a blood test. Ukrainian officials declined to comment.

Germany won the gold medal, Norway took the silver and Switzerland got the bronze.

The Russians planned to protest the race.

"This is a scandal. They are specifically hunting out Russian sportsmen," team leader Gennady Ramensky said.

[welfareloser]

well, if her hemoglobin was above the legal limit, it was above the legal limit. duh.

and as for the figure skating, the french judge straight up admitted to voting for the russians because she was told to. duh.

i don't see what there is to argue about. every athlete gets tested. and judges being told what to vote is patently and indisputably wrong.

standing there talking about a witchhunt under those circumstances only makes him look like an ass.

[xsiled2]

i could careless if they left...

[OC]

Originally posted by DarkFury
Remember my comment in the other "Olympic Thread"...

It was only a matter of time before someone started complaining again.... Well, yeah.

[whitak24]

the russians are whining because they're team is turning in a subpar performance at these games. so now they have to try to blame it on the officiating.
i'm with welfare on her points. facts are facts. deal with them.

"I told Rogge that since the Canadian figure skaters were awarded a second gold medal, by the same logic our relay should get a gold, too, since it's been dominant for so long," he said.
now this just cracked me up. apparently, the logic goes: we usually win. but since our team was disqualified (due to the failed blood test by one of the relay members) and we don't think we should have been, we should get a medal. following this logic, we shouldn't even bother having the games. we should just give the medals to athletes from countries that usually win the events :rolleyes:

[Sir_Froggy]

Originally posted by chrissy
Smirnov warned against taking his country's complaints too lightly.



hehe when i read that i was thinking "Smirnov Ice" :P


olympics....they matter very little to me and i don't know why....

[OC]

Smirnov needs to have some Smirnov...

What will this threat accomplish? Nuttin.

-OC

[chrissy]

And now it looks like South Korea are going to follow the Russian lead.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/713369.asp

THE SOUTH KOREANS protested the disqualification of World Cup champion Kim Dong-sung, but the ISU turned them down Thursday. Spokesman Pierre Eymann said there is no provision in the short-track rule book for overturning a judgment call by the referee.
“It cannot be reviewed,” Eymann said.
The South Koreans also appealed to International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge, hired a Salt Lake City law firm and said they might boycott the closing night of the Salt Lake City Games.
“We will use all measures necessary to rectify the misjudgment,” said Park Sung-in, leader of the country’s Olympic team.
The South Koreans believe Kim should be awarded a short-track gold medal for crossing the finish line first in the 1,500 meters Wednesday night. An Australian referee ruled that Kim improperly blocked Ohno with a half-lap to go, disqualifying Kim and giving the gold medal to the 19-year-old American.
Ohno, who graciously accepted his fate when a last-lap crash cost him a chance to win the 1,000, said he can’t understand why the South Koreans are so upset.
“You get off the ice and respect the referee’s decision,” he said. “It’s happened to me so many times.”
Before learning of the ISU decision, the South Koreans said they also would go to the IOC and Court of Arbitration for Sport. In addition, they plan to sue chief referee James Hewish.
The South Koreans aired their complaints at a news conference immediately following a briefing in which Russia threatened to pull out of the Salt Lake City Games and said it might not go to the 2004 Athens Games.
The Russians are upset by decisions in cross-country skiing, hockey and figure skating.
Asked if his country was considering such drastic measures, Park replied, “We will do anything possible, including not participating in the closing ceremony.”
He would not dismiss the possibility of pulling out of the remaining events in Salt Lake City and boycotting Athens.
“We’re not commenting on Ohno’s performance,” Park said. “He’s an excellent skater. What we don’t agree with is the referee’s misjudgment”
The IOC sent a letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin to address that country’s concerns, but director general Francois Carrard said the South Korean protest “is a different matter.”
“That concerns the ISU,” Carrard said. “We’ve all seen the event one way or the other. This is a matter for the ISU to decide on. At this time, the IOC has received no proposal and taken no action.”
The disqualification of Kim drew angry reactions in South Korea.
“Kim Dong-sung was robbed of his gold,” said the headline of Dong-A Ilbo newspaper. “Olympic spirit is dead,” was the headline in the Hankook Ilbo newspaper.
Park wouldn’t specify if he believes Kim should be given a gold medal and Ohno bumped to the silver, or if both skaters should be given golds — a precedent set by the IOC in the disputed pairs figure skating competition.
“The gold should be awarded to the athlete who finished first, not the athlete who is the crowd favorite,” said Rocky Yoon, deputy secretary general of the Korean Olympic Committee.
Meanwhile, the U.S. Olympic Committee revealed Thursday that Ohno received threatening e-mails after his first race, when he crashed to a silver in the 1,000. The threats were turned over to the FBI for investigation.
Another 16,000 e-mails regarding Ohno, mostly from South Korea, crashed the USOC’s Internet server early Thursday, spokesman Mike Moran said. It took more than nine hours to restore service.
“I’m not worried,” Ohno said.
In the 1,000 last Saturday night, the teen-ager from Seattle was leading going into the final turn when a four-skater crash sent him careening into the boards. Ohno, whose left thigh was cut by his own skate, managed to crawl to the line for silver.
On Wednesday night, Ohno burst past three skaters into second place with less than two laps to go. He then darted to the inside with hopes of passing Kim.
But Kim blocked his path, prompting Ohno to throw up his hands and back off.
Ohno said Kim was guilty of “cross-tracking” — improperly changing his path to interfere with another skater — and the referee agreed.
“I’ve been called for that in World Cup,” Ohno said. “There’s a thin line when it comes to cross-tracking, but I thought he definitely came over on me.”
The Koreans took a different view in their letter to the ISU, saying Ohno made a “strange and appealing gesture as if he had been blocked unfairly, improperly and deliberately when he realized he could not overtake Kim.”
“I’m not really sure what they’re protesting for,” Ohno said.

[OC]

Ok - so Russia and South Korea pull out, then the Olympics get dominated by the US for a few years, then they'll want back in to show us how inferior we are. What will that accomplish? Fewer headlines for them.

"I'm going to leave!" Yeah, whatever. What remains unspoken is "I'll be forgotten too!"

What's the point?

-OC

[welfareloser]

good point oc.

i can understand the south koreans protesting. you think a bad call was made, you bitch about it. fair nuff. and maybe appeals and reviews aren't a bad idea (i think they probly are a bad idea in general, unless misconduct by the judge is strongly suspected...) so, fine. but threatening to pull out? do they really think that one incident means everyone is out to get em?

[sbp]

http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/crbaby.gif

[oblongmelon]

Originally posted by sbp
http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/crbaby.gif

boy you hit the nail on the head.

[NuTs62]

In terms of figure skating, the Russians skated a silver medal performance at best. Yet they are complaining that they must share the gold medal with the Canadians, when they only "won" it due to unjust influence to the judge. They should be happy that they weren't stripped of their gold and given silver instead.

It's too bad that these countries are complaining and threatening to boycott. It happens all the time.. One decision sets precedence for others to follow. It's tragic that all these politics overshadow the true meaning of the Olympics.

Nobody ever wants a ruling against their favor.. But rules are rules. If every country starts challenging a decision, the Olympic Games will be a year-long event.

Hmm, now that I think about it.. It's too bad Michelle Kwan didn't skate too well today... Heck, maybe the U.S. should boycott the Olympics... OoOOoOo, that would look good, seeing as how we're hosting it! =)

It'd be interesting if all this controversy spills over to countries going to war because of stuff like this. YOU DON'T GIVE ME GOLD, I RAM MY TANKS INTO YOUR COUNTRY!

[mojo]

Originally posted by overclocked
"I'm going to leave!" Yeah, whatever. What remains unspoken is "I'll be forgotten too!"

What's the point?

-OC i'm pretty sure that every company i've ever worked for is failing miserably without me. if they appear to be doing well, they are really crying on the inside.

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by whitak24
the russians are whining because they're team is turning in a subpar performance at these games. so now they have to try to blame it on the officiating.


Guess what buddy if they stay and play USA they will beat them, but otherwise they should pull out there was no respect from the beginiing and i don't know why. USA is unf*cking greatful. WHat the hell was with all that propaganda before the olympics? Lenin, Kremlin? Army parades? What the hell was up with that sh1t? And then they start saying sh1t like well if america is not in some event then support america jr. (canada) in their fight against the super power that is russia. Bastards, then the whole thing with the french judge, i highly doubt it that she just came out and said oh yea i was told to do it, i confess, it seemed too easy her career is officially over because of that, people do not throw away their careers like that.
After the september 11th ****, Russia provider all the help they could, and USA spits in their face. What the f*ck is that?

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[xsiled2]

so now ur russian :hmm: :hmm:

[BigJon]

It would suck to see Russia drop out....whatever happened to everyone getting along? The olympics seems like it's no longer about true sportsmanship, just winning and being better than everyone else....

[chrissy]

Originally posted by Burzhui



After the september 11th ****, Russia provider all the help they could, and USA spits in their face.


How did WE spit in their face? We (the host country) have nothing to do with the judging or officialing of the games itself. We provide, the venues, the food, transportation and lodging, not the judges.

Are you talking about the media? I don't know, I have watched most evenings and I haven't seen anything bad said about Russians. Then again, most of the footage I have seen from Russia in this games was for the Woman's figure skating medalist.

[xsiled2]

cpu, i was refering to the times he took his side as an "american",

this makes me think of my british english teacher telling us all to read noam chomsky, and how the US has big sporting events like football to keep our minds on other things, if you dont like the country, leave.

[topane]

Originally posted by cpugeek04

Bur is russian, always has been

Bur, you raise a good point. A lot of stuff like that happens everyday/year with all countries and peoples. People need to learn how to return a favor, and say thanks. Yes, that is a good point. However, these little scandals happen all the time and everyone's gotta just suck it up. It may seem like Russia's getting dumped on, but if someone has crap in their blood that shouldn't be there, then why is it wrong to disqualify them? Disqualifications have happened in past Olympics to other countries (remember that Canadian sprinter?) as well. I understand national pride and all, but if you do something wrong, you've done wrong and should be reprimanded.

[BigJon]

i think we should stop now before this gets bad...

[NuTs62]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Guess what buddy if they stay and play USA they will beat them, but otherwise they should pull out there was no respect from the beginiing and i don't know why. USA is unf*cking greatful. WHat the hell was with all that propaganda before the olympics? Lenin, Kremlin? Army parades? What the hell was up with that sh1t? And then they start saying sh1t like well if america is not in some event then support america jr. (canada) in their fight against the super power that is russia. Bastards, then the whole thing with the french judge, i highly doubt it that she just came out and said oh yea i was told to do it, i confess, it seemed too easy her career is officially over because of that, people do not throw away their careers like that.
After the september 11th ****, Russia provider all the help they could, and USA spits in their face. What the f*ck is that?

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

I don't know the facts about what Russia provided in terms of help for Sept 11th, and won't go into the politics between the two countries. But as for the French judge throwing away her career.. If the world was to find out after an investigation, you can be sure that this would be a worse situation. I think the judge saved any ounce of dignity she had left and confessed. (I forget, did she actually confess, or was she overheard in that hotel lobby? *shrug*).

[whitak24]

Originally posted by Burzhui


Guess what buddy if they stay and play USA they will beat them, but otherwise they should pull out there was no respect from the beginiing and i don't know why. USA is unf*cking greatful. WHat the hell was with all that propaganda before the olympics? Lenin, Kremlin? Army parades? What the hell was up with that sh1t? And then they start saying sh1t like well if america is not in some event then support america jr. (canada) in their fight against the super power that is russia. Bastards, then the whole thing with the french judge, i highly doubt it that she just came out and said oh yea i was told to do it, i confess, it seemed too easy her career is officially over because of that, people do not throw away their careers like that.
After the september 11th ****, Russia provider all the help they could, and USA spits in their face. What the f*ck is that?
dude, i'm not trying to start a fight. i'm just saying that russia has not performed up to their usual level in this olympics. and i think that they are trying to use this as a public relations move to distract from this fact.
as for the bias, i don't really see it. the hockey dispute concerns a game between russia and the czech republic. that doesn't strike me as east vs. west bias. especially because the czechs won the gold in 1998. if the refs were trying to "clear the way for america", why would they do this?
but anyway, i'm not really trying to fan the flames. i'm just saying that i think there are strategic reasons this claim is being made.

[NuTs62]

Originally posted by cpugeek04
People need to learn how to return a favor, and say thanks.

Like the French judge was gonna do? =P

[NuTs62]

Originally posted by topane
Yes, that is a good point. However, these little scandals happen all the time and everyone's gotta just suck it up. It may seem like Russia's getting dumped on, but if someone has crap in their blood that shouldn't be there, then why is it wrong to disqualify them? Disqualifications have happened in past Olympics to other countries (remember that Canadian sprinter?) as well. I understand national pride and all, but if you do something wrong, you've done wrong and should be reprimanded.

:stupid:

[Cantacuzene]

Isn't hemoglobin levels affected by your blood sugar? Maybe she had a doughnut and a coca-cola. I doubt she had anything illegal.

I don't see Russia being particularly screwed. The obviously lost the skating competition, everyone say that.

The South Koreans are pissed because of the speed skating, well news flash: they screwed the USA in the first race albeit not on purpose and in the 2nd their guy tried to cut off Ono which is against the rules, so he got what he deserved.

[chrissy]

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Russian officials have filed a formal protest of the women's figure skating finale, saying the Russian silver medalist should get her own gold medal because of biased judging.

The protest was signed by Russian Figure Skating Federation president Valentin Piseyev and sent to the referee of Thursday night's free skate won by 16-year-old American Sarah Hughes.

It singled out the judging that gave Hughes the win after she placed fourth in the earlier short program. Russian Irina Slutskaya finished in second and Michelle Kwan took the bronze.

"We filed the protest last night because we think the judging was biased," the head of the Russian delegation in Salt Lake City, Viktor Mamatov, told The Associated Press on Friday. "Canadian pairs skaters were awarded their gold medals. Now that subjective judging harmed us, we want the same for Slutskaya."


Asked whether he thinks Slutskaya will be awarded a gold medal, Mamatov said: "Right now, I don't think anything. We'll wait for the protest to be evaluated, then we'll see."

Ottavio Cinquanta, president of the International Skating Union, said he had been told of the protest.

"For us, this is not so important," said Cinquanta, whose organization is investigating allegations of judging misconduct in last week's pairs competition.

Mamatov refused to speculate whether the new controversy would prompt the Russians to leave Salt Lake City before the end of the games. Russian officials first threatened to walk out Thursday, citing favoritism and unfair treatment from Olympic officials and judges.

"If decisions are not made and issues we raised not resolved, the Russian team will not play hockey, will not run 30 kilometers, will look very negatively on other factors," Russian Olympic Committee president Leonid Tyagachev said.

He said a high number of Russian athletes had been picked for drug tests and referred to an unspecified ruling by a goal judge in ice hockey.

"I think we are seeing a witch hunt," he said.

Russian anger boiled over on Thursday after nine-time Olympic medalist Larissa Lazutina was disqualified from the 20-kilometer cross-country relay following a blood test.

A short time later, South Korea said it might boycott Sunday's closing ceremony over a judge's decision that gave a short-track speedskating gold to American Apolo Anton Ohno.

The latest Russian protest came only hours before the Russian men's hockey team faced the United States in a semifinal on the 22nd anniversary of the Americans' stirring victory over the Soviet Union at Lake Placid, N.Y.

After meeting with Tyagachev on Thursday, International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge sent a letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin to assure him the games were fair and that his nation's anger was understood.

"President Rogge wrote to express sympathy, to say he has been in contact with the sports federation and that the decisions are absolutely correct," IOC director general Francois Carrard said.

It may have worked: Putin said there was bias at the games but indicated that Russia won't walk out.

"North American athletes receive a clear advantage," Putin told journalists at the Kremlin. "Let us see how the Olympic Games end. Let us hope that the IOC leadership will manage to solve these difficulties."

However, the lower house of Russia's parliament passed a resolution 417-0 calling on Russian athletes to boycott the closing ceremony unless the IOC reruns the cross-country race, bars North American referees from the hockey game and apologizes to the Russian Olympic team.

Tyagachev said he told Rogge his nation was "greatly unappreciated" in the Olympics.

South Korea unsuccessfully protested an International Skating Union referee's decision Wednesday night that gave the 1,500 meter short-track gold to Ohno. He finished second to a South Korean skater but got the gold when the Korean was ruled to have interfered on the final lap.

"We can take various measures, including not participating during the closing ceremony," said Park Sung-in, head of South Korea's Olympic team.

With just three days before the closing ceremony, IOC leaders met Thursday night to discuss the issues.

Rogge spoke with the presidents of skating, skiing and hockey "and was reassured that their judges are acting in accordance with the rules," IOC vice president Kevan Gosper said.

Lazutina was disqualified because of high levels of hemoglobin found in a pre-race blood test, a move that knocked four-time defending champion Russia out of the event. Tyagachev said that while the skier's hemoglobin count was just above the legal limit, she was not guilty of doping.

"We are clean," he said. "We have nothing to hide."

A urine test on Lazutina will determine whether her case will be considered a drug positive. Results were expected Friday. Lazutina, who already has won two silvers at these games, is scheduled to compete in the 30-kilometer race Sunday.

Gosper said Rogge noted in his talks with the Russians that the case "is a health issue" and that no duplicate golds would be awarded in that case, as in the pairs' skating decision last week.

Carrard also said the IOC had no second thoughts on its decision to award duplicate gold medals to Canadian pairs skaters Jamie Sale and David Pelletier after the ISU found there had been misconduct by a judge.

"Human nature is understandable," he said. "There is a lot of emotion building up and these protests are a result of that emotion."

The emotion was evident when Tyagachev said there was a 24-hour window to address the situation, and that if Russia left Salt Lake City it probably would not compete in Athens in the next Summer Games.

"Once you leave, it is not easy to come back in," he said.

Later, Vitaly Smirnov, an IOC vice president from Russia, tempered Tyagachev's remarks, saying there was no ultimatum.

Tyagachev was upset by more than the Lazutina case. He made repeated references to the figure skating judging dispute, in which Russia's Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze won the pairs' competition but had to share the gold medal with Sale and Pelletier in a deal reached in a hotel room meeting between the IOC and the skating union.

"This was a new decision that was practically unprecedented," he said. "We went along with the decision and tried to look at it objectively. ... But we have only so much patience."

Tyagachev said if the same rules that led to duplicate golds in pairs skating were applied to the cross-country relay, Russia should share that gold with race winner Germany.

"I told Rogge that since the Canadian figure skaters were awarded a second gold medal, by the same logic our relay should get a gold, too, since it's been dominant for so long," he said. "Or if this is not an 'objective' solution, why not stage a new relay on Saturday?"

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Burzhui
Guess what buddy if they stay and play USA they will beat them,
they may well do so. nobody's denying that. russia is traditionally an olympic powerhouse. that doesn't mean they haven't turned in a few subpar performances this time around. so have lots of other countries. no big deal.


Originally posted by Burzhui
there was no respect from the beginiing and i don't know why. USA is unf*cking greatful. WHat the hell was with all that propaganda before the olympics? Lenin, Kremlin? Army parades? What the hell was up with that sh1t?
lenin, the kremlin, and army parades are all patriotic symbols of russia. it's no different than showing the white house, a waving american flag, uncle sam, and us army parades. they were shown with the utmost respect. those are some patriotic symbols around which russians rally. what's the big deal? you're imagining every man woman and child in america suddenly foaming at the mouth about "kill the red commies!" every time they see those images? uuhhhh, no.


Originally posted by Burzhui
And then they start saying sh1t like well if america is not in some event then support america jr. (canada) in their fight against the super power that is russia.
who said that where? more burzhui-style fact-citing? :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Burzhui
Bastards, then the whole thing with the french judge, i highly doubt it that she just came out and said oh yea i was told to do it, i confess, it seemed too easy her career is officially over because of that, people do not throw away their careers like that.
people do throw their careers away like that. the pressure mounts, you do something bad, the backlash mounts, you freak, you see no way out, you turn yourself in. that's EXACTLY how careers end all the time.


Originally posted by Burzhui
After the september 11th ****, Russia provider all the help they could, and USA spits in their face. What the f*ck is that?

you're the only one spitting. calm down and wipe the foam off your jowls.

[BigJon]

check please!

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
Isn't hemoglobin levels affected by your blood sugar? Maybe she had a doughnut and a coca-cola. I doubt she had anything illegal.



they set the limit at something WELL outside the natural range. if her hemoglobin is outside the limits they set, something funny is definitely going on. now, that something funny could be a disease process of which she has no knowledge, but she's not just "normal." no, you don't suddenly sprout more hemoglobin 'cause you had a big meal (that would be blood sugar, insulin, some other hormones... not cells!) hemoglobin production is on a 120-day cycle, and it takes long-term, steady changes to mess with something like a hemoglobin level.

[brainsmile]

Man... I knew this would happen... appeals all over the place... this is a mess

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by chrissy


How did WE spit in their face? We (the host country) have nothing to do with the judging or officialing of the games itself. We provide, the venues, the food, transportation and lodging, not the judges.

Are you talking about the media? I don't know, I have watched most evenings and I haven't seen anything bad said about Russians. Then again, most of the footage I have seen from Russia in this games was for the Woman's figure skating medalist.


i thought i made it clear that i was in fact talking about the media, it's horrible it's like the cold war isn't over. They showed lenin and the red square and parades with communist sighns and what not, i mean give me a break....

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by brainsmile
Man... I knew this would happen... appeals all over the place... this is a mess

and i don't think the russians are necessarily wrong for making that appeal. they are making a point: "are you ppl SURE you want to get started with allowing appeals to overturn decisions?!?!"

even with the confession from the judge, they should have completed the investigation before changing the medals (after all, maybe instead of getting pressured to vote a certain way, the only pressure the judge got was to say it was fixed so that the gold would go elsewhere... stranger things have happened.) and even if wrongdoing was blatant, maybe even then let the decision stand just so the olympics doesn't turn into a nightmare of appeals. it almost certainly wasn't the athlete's fault, so it's hard to watch them get jerked around - both the russian and the canadian skaters are the ones getting screwed, whether the decision stood or was overturned. we're in a position of picking the lesser of two evils... the judging will always be biased to some extent, so do we want to just let it be biased, or do we want to overturn the most blatant biases and allow things to degenerate into a flurry of litigation and appeals?

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Burzhui



i thought i made it clear that i was in fact talking about the media, it's horrible it's like the cold war isn't over. They showed lenin and the red square and parades with communist sighns and what not, i mean give me a break....

lenin was a bright guy who did some great things and his countrymen are proud of him to this day. communism isn't horrible. red square is a nice place. parades are good things.

what the hell is the problem here? (read my post above)

[Burzhui]

The army parades were held constantly during the cold war to show that russia is a great superpower and can whipe pretty much anyone off the face of this plannet. Lenin was a smart guy, and did do a lot of good. But the fact remains that before that these commercials were shown as propaganda, and this was the first time i have ever heard America say let us support canada, same commercial by the way

[Jihforce]

The games are rigged this year. Not bothering to watch it.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by Jihforce
The games are rigged this year. Not bothering to watch it.

and this is different from previous years how? :hihi:

i think that we're more aware of rigging problems every year, and i'm bettin it's less rigged every year...

[whitak24]

Originally posted by Jihforce
The games are rigged this year. Not bothering to watch it.
why do you say this? i don't ask to be rude, but that's a pretty bold statement. why is it or what do you see that shows that the games are rigged?

[Grimm]

Originally posted by Burzhui



i thought i made it clear that i was in fact talking about the media, it's horrible it's like the cold war isn't over...

You mentioned the media exactly 0 times in your foaming at the mouth tirade.

After decades of block voting in skating and gymnastics, they finaly get busted for it. It was just to obvious this time. The skaters had nothing to do with it so they were not punished. Did they deserve the gold medal? No. They were not the best. The US did not review the decision, the referee in charge of the judges called for a review. The autorities on skating determined that something was done wrong.
THe US had nothing to do with it, Canada had nothing to do with it. You don't like the fact that there is a free press in this country? then go somewhere that doesn't have one (then again the media in this country does make me sick).

If Russia feels that they can not participate in the Olympic Games, then they should leave. Same with South Korea. Just say "Thanks, we're done." and leave. I dont like the fact that a French judge messed everything up by trading votes... but please note, they had to have someone to trade with...
They should kick France out. Entirely. It's about sportsmanship. They showed a total lack when their judge cheated. She sold her vote. She sold it for another vote.


Bah! The US was on the short end of the stick many, many times in Olympic judging. If someone else wants to cry and go home when it's their turn, let them. But if they go, take back all their medals. Because it is all about sportsmanship. And taking your ball and running home is the traditional example of poor sportsmanship.

[Slutzy]

What's important here is that Wayne Gretsky move to Russia. They can all cry together. Maybe even invite the South Keorean speed skating team over and make it a party.

[sbp]

What a bunch of crybabies! http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/crybaby2.gif

[whitak24]

Originally posted by sbp
What a bunch of crybabies! http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/crybaby2.gif
that pic is even better than the last one sbp. lmao :heh:

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by welfareloser


and this is different from previous years how? :hihi:

i think that we're more aware of rigging problems every year, and i'm bettin it's less rigged every year...

That probably is the case. Who knows. But yeah I don't think its that much different than the previous years. When it comes to professional sports. There's always that chance. The fact that Salt Lake even got to host the Olympics was rather shady too. But hey, what do I know, I only read what the media tells me. :heh:

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by whitak24

why do you say this? i don't ask to be rude, but that's a pretty bold statement. why is it or what do you see that shows that the games are rigged?

Because the Olympics is a business. People make money off this. When there's money, there's going to be dishonest people, unfair treatment, favoritism, etc...You think the NFL is fair? You think the NBA is fair? Business is business. And with all the scandals that go around every 4 years, why wouldn't some of that be true?

[NuTs62]

Honestly Burzhui, if the U.S. team or Canadian team had someone who had a hemoglobin level too high, pass the maximum amount, I would more than gladly see them get kicked off the team. Although that athelete only went over it by a small margin, facts are facts. And it went too high. Of course if there was a logical and rational explanation, being that the athelete is taking a drug that he/she depends on, rather than stuff like steroids, I believe that would suffice (my opinion).

As for the Korean skater.. If it was a U.S. skater blocking the Korean or the Russian, and seeing as how its against the rules, I'd want him disqualified also.. The matter being that he didn't earn it fair and square..

As with the matter of the figure skating pairs.. If the Russians in fact skated a more superb performance, but say a U.S. judge voted for the U.S. or Canada instead, because they were "trading votes" or whatnot.. I'd certainly believe the Russians should be receiving the Gold, because they would have earned their spot.. and the U.S. judge be punished.. In the IOC's shoes, I'd give two pairs of gold medals.. Because the skaters shouldn't be punished for the stupidity of the judges.


You may argue that its a conspiracy all against Russia and Korea. But I'm sure that if you ask each and every person here, if the situation was reversed, we'd still feel the same way.

People don't get things done by threatening others.. Russia and Korea's threat, in my opinion was stupid. It just pisses people off, and makes more controversey. If the U.S. were to do this, I'd feel disgraced to call myself an American.

[mojo]

Originally posted by BigJon
check please! :stupid:

:heh: