I need some advice to tell a friend....

[Pinkgirl36]

Ok I don't really know how to present the whole story....but I think I'll start at the beginning because that's always the best place to start right?

Ok I got an e-mail from my friend today, lemme tell you a bit about her, she's 19, got married last year, and just recently had a baby ( don't get me started on that, we didn't talk thru almost her whole pregnancy cuz I told her she was too young ). But she told me that she is having marriage problems now, and they are trying to work it out, but she's afraid they are going to get a divorce.
One of their major problems is they are extreamly in debt, well atleast for people their age ( he's 23 and she's 19 ) and she wants to file bankruptsey ( or how ever you spell it ) and she also wants to try to get all their debts consolidated, does anyone have any suggestions and if they went the bankruptsey route what the consequences would be in the long run and just any plain old adivce I can give her. And then she tells me that he doesn't take care of their daughter and is always tired....and I really don't know what to say because I have never ( thank god ) been in the similar situation, so if anyone has been in the situation or can give me any adivce on what I should tell her to do I would really extreamly appreciate it and so would my friend. Thanks :)

[Pinkgirl36]

Damn....ok I'm still talking to her, and right now their living situation is with her parents. Her dad doesn't like him, he never has and told her that if she wants he'll kick him out, but I told her to try to work things out before she does that. Then he's told her I guess that if she trys to kick him out he'll take their daughter away from her and that he'll try to kill himself....I really don't know what to tell her....:(

[Burzhui]

i'm pretty sure that once you file bankrupcy you credit history is gonna go ape****

[WhiskeyPapa]

I run a class at our church to teach people financial planning. I see this stuff all the time. First of all, most people who want to file bankruptcy are not bankrupt. They're just can't see a way out.

They need to get on a written budget. Most likely, they just spend money when they feel like it, and don't have a plan.

Is the husband a bum, or does he work hard? If they don't earn enough money to support their lifestyle, they need to do one of two things: increase the income or decrease the expenses. No amount of consolidation will work if you can't live winth your means.

We were in a similar situation. We paid off over $22,000 of debt in 10 months. Not because we're rich or have a great income, but because we got so stinking mad at being in debt that we wanted out. We denied ourselves every comfort until that debt was paid off. We sold so much stuff our kids were afraid they were next.

Tell her to go to the library and get a book called "Financial Peace" by Dave Ramsey. The guy lays out the truth and tells you why DEBT SUCKS. He also gives you practical advise on how to get out.

[aglio412]

my gf made me a written budget, saved my financial life. also consolidated my cc's through american consumer credit counseling. finally making the right strides. although, i'd suggest using the cc companies' debt management programs instead...that is if your friend is in CC trouble.

as for the divorce thing...if they're no longer in love, try counselling, if that doesn't work get divorced. there's nothing worse than a family that stays together 'for the kid(s).' as for the suicide threats..nonsense, puffs of smoke, and if he tries to take the kid, have the cops there when they kick him out.

[welfareloser]

the financial advice has already been given... and then there's the rest of the problems. they need to go to counselling. period. if he resists, she needs to go by herself. and she needs to get started now on trying to make herself self-supporting... if she doesn't ahve job skills, she needs to get some. if he's the spender, not her, she needs to keep her name the hell off any new credit cards or other debt-makers that he gets into. if she can put some money away for herself, ie, a bank account with only her name on it, that he doesn't know about, she needs to. even if it's just a couple hundred dollars.

and, all in all, there isn't a single word of advice you can give her that will make a bit of difference. you can't help her. she has to help herself. and it's hard as hell to sit by and watch someone run their lives into the toilet...

[hoey222]

sounds like the marriage was a mistake from the getgo - and the baby was in hopes of saving the marriage.

either way she should get out now. get protection from the law and get out. the sooner the better. for her and the baby. my sister was involved with a similar kinda looser. no baby tho. she finally woke up and was able to get away. it was a rough couple o months but she got the law and my parents on her side. it made an extremely difficult situation less difficult.

i agree with kb0wwp - dont file bankruptcy.


:)

[WhiskeyPapa]

Originally posted by welfareloser
if she can put some money away for herself, ie, a bank account with only her name on it, that he doesn't know about, she needs to. even if it's just a couple hundred dollars.

I agree that the finances are most likely not the whole problem. I also agree that she should get some money in reserve. However, I don't agree that she should open a "hidden" account in her name. In most states, that's a no-no and could come up and bite her in the butt during a nasty divorce.

It would be better to keep it in cash, or have her parents open an account for it in their name.

But, if she starts planning for a divorce, she will most likely get one. Our marriage started out pretty rocky just like this one (it's scary how close the details are to ours) and we stuck it out. I'm glad we did, because right now, life has never been better.

[welfareloser]

it's impossible for us to tell, certainly, and quite likely also difficult for pinkgirl to tell waht the real problem is. maybe the baby was an attempt to cement the relationship, maybe she just really wanted a baby and ignored the problems that might have said "not a good idea right now." maybe the marriage was a mistake, maybe it's jsut finances and living with parents that are causing a lot of stress.

the most important thing is that the status quo is not acceptable. it's not acceptable for everyone to be friggin miserable and do nothing about it. maybe it's fixable, maybe he's a horrible person and she needs to get the hell out. maybe she's the whole damned problem, who knows? it's important to be task oriented in a situation like this. you have to say: i want these results. i need to do this and this to get these results. we need to change this and this to make sure we never have these problems again. placing blame is bound to happen, and a little of that is actually appropriate, but usually the blame game becomes the focus and nobody is trying to fix the damned problem anymore. but you gotta do your best to give your child a loving and secure environment to grow up in, and hopefully she is working toward that in whatever way is appropriate to her situation.

anyway, good luck to her, and to your friendship.

[cruelpupet]

Originally posted by kb0wwp


I agree that the finances are most likely not the whole problem. I also agree that she should get some money in reserve. However, I don't agree that she should open a "hidden" account in her name. In most states, that's a no-no and could come up and bite her in the butt during a nasty divorce.

It would be better to keep it in cash, or have her parents open an account for it in their name.

But, if she starts planning for a divorce, she will most likely get one. Our marriage started out pretty rocky just like this one (it's scary how close the details are to ours) and we stuck it out. I'm glad we did, because right now, life has never been better.

Also not sure what State shes in...but... I believe in most she could open a joint acct with a parent...and legally hide that from her husband. That way she can withdraw money if needed.

[mojo]

my understanding (or misunderstanding) of bankruptcy is that it's something that you do to protect yourself and your credit. your credit is bad when you don't pay bills, and bankruptcy is a way of saying "i'll pay, just back your ass off my loafers a bit." not paying is much worse than filing bankruptcy, and that's where your credit goes bad. when you file, it seems to be more of a gray area that can be repaired fairly quickly.

i know peeps that filed bankruptcy when they were younger (in their twenties) and now own homes (in their thirties). so as bad as it sounds, it just seems to have a bad rap because of the situation. i could be wrong, tho.

[cruelpupet]

Originally posted by mojo
my understanding (or misunderstanding) of bankruptcy is that it's something that you do to protect yourself and your credit. your credit is bad when you don't pay bills, and bankruptcy is a way of saying "i'll pay, just back your ass off my loafers a bit." not paying is much worse than filing bankruptcy, and that's where your credit goes bad. when you file, it seems to be more of a gray area that can be repaired fairly quickly.

i know peeps that filed bankruptcy when they were younger (in their twenties) and now own homes (in their thirties). so as bad as it sounds, it just seems to have a bad rap because of the situation. i could be wrong, tho.

bankruptcy is worse than paying the minimum payments...i highly suggest paying at leats the minimum payment...and more if possible.

[CarolinaGal]

As mentioned before, bankruptcy should not be considered until a reasonable attempt at debt-consolidation has been made. Bankruptcy will continue to drag on your credit for 7, 10 or even 14 years.

A good place to start is, as Aglio mentioned, American Consumer Credit Counseling (http://www.consumercredit.com/) . They are probably being killed by interest rates, and the Credit Counselors can help. They will still have to pay their priniciple, but the interest costs will be a lot less.

They will also need to find a way to earn money. It wasn't entirely clear, is he working? If not, he should be, and in either case, he needs to get a second job. Sure, he is tired now, but if he is not helping out with the kid, at least he could bring in more cash. And, he won't be around so much for her dad to dislike.

She also needs to get a job. Yes, I know she has a baby, and she wants to stay home, but they willingly piled on the debt and now need to sacrifice to make it work. Since she is living in her mother's house, there might be someone who could watch the baby part-time? If not, is there a neighborhood baby-sitting co-op that she could help with? I'm not talking about a 9-5 full-time job, but something more flexible to allow her to still stay with her child as much as possible. One mom I know cleans houses, another delivers papers, and still another works shift work so that at least one of the parent's is home with the kid. One couple I know spend Thursday and Friday putting up builder's signs around certain neighborhoods, and then take them back again on Sunday. There are many alternatives and it will serve her in two ways: first, to pay off her debt, and second, to give her financial freedom in case her marriage really is in trouble.

Also, it sounds like the husband is clinically depressed, and with that situation, who wouldn't be. If she thinks she still loves the guy, she needs to urge him to seek help via therapy and possibly even medication. She will never have the kind of marriage she wants if he is depressed. (I'm talking about more than the "snap out of it!!" kind). His comments may mean that he is a mean SOB who is just trying to control her, or may be a reaction (stupid, though) to try and avoid what is coming up. It sounds awfully like depression talking though.....

From the situation described, it is difficult to tell whether their problems are due solely to financial issues, but the finances sure aren't helping. But they need to know, that as bad as things are right now, a divorce on top of it will make it a gazillion times worse. I am not saying she should necessarily continue to live with him if she scared or miserable - but seperation can and has worked for plenty of people and will give them both breathing room to decide what they want.

I do wish her a lot of luck - she is going through a miserable time at a point in her life when she should be at her happiest. As her friend, maybe you could share some of these advice postings and help her develop a plan to get out from under. Good Luck to you both

[Pinkgirl36]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I am going to pass all the information on to her.
Well, lets see, she's educated and stuff, she graduated HS and took a year of college classes, then they got married. She was actually going to start modeling, but she got pregnant.

And I know I don't know all the details of everything, and I doubt I'll ever find out. Even though I have known her since kindergarden and stuff.

And yes her husband does work, I'm not sure what she does.
But it's gotten to the point where she wants to try to get a job at night but she's afraid that he won't be able to take care of the baby, and he is always saying that he's "tired" and she thinks that he really shouldn't be and tells him to go to the doctor then to find out what's wrong and he won't go. I'm beginning to think he's stubborn.

Dang, this is just a horrible situation for her to be in especially at this time. Thanks everyone for your help, I'll keep you posted on what happens.

Oh and thanks for the name of the credit place, I was telling her about it but couldn't think of the name of it.

[sbp]

Weren't the laws regarding bankruptcy changed last year to make it harder to file and that money would still be owed? Its cause some people used to file bankruptcy over and over again and walk away owing nothing.

[Loosah]

There are two types of bankruptcy. One that "erases" debt and one that allows you to make arrangements for repayment (usually on a reduced level). This kind stops collection agents from calling (it is supposed to anyway). Yes, it is much harder to file bankruptcy that "erases" debt these days. I would avoid both if at all possible. It stays on your credit record for 10 years. My best friend had to file and it has F'ed his life up in ways you don't even consider. Like:

Auto and Homeowners/Renters insurance companies calculate your insurance rate now based on your FICO credit score. The better your score the better your rate.

His phone company would not allow him to have ANY long distance service without a $500 deposit on account. They won't release his account so he can have any other carrier either. So he has to buy phone cards.

All of his credit card companies cancelled his accounts (big shocker there).

As for finding a mortgage, yeah with anything you can usually get it, but you will pay. You won't get a conforming mortgage (meaning one with low rates and closing costs and decent terms). You won't get a decent car loan...

[Ladogaboy]

I do want to just throw this in though. I know some advice has been given for her to get a job, but there is something that must be considered first. Sometimes, it is actually counter productive for a second person in the household to start working. One of the biggest reasons for this is child care. IF she can find someone competent and trustworthy (maybe mom?) to watch the baby for free or next to nothing, then yes, there shouldn't be anything holding her back from getting a job. But, if she can't, it is probably not worth it. It costs money to work in the first place, and if she has to pay for childcare in addition, the extramoney she brings in might be negligible.

[Pinkgirl36]

wow...this is old....

but yeah...she has new issues in her life...her mom e-mailed me this morning and told me....

this is what she said " Ready!!!! One month ago (about) there living arraignments got ugly....
They live with her mother in law.........
They went to the wealfare office, to apply for housing
they were declined for being $15 DOLLARS to much in income
but they told them, if she had another one, they could apply for section 8 emergency housing so...Her working/ part time, but got laid off..."

and before that her mom told me that she is pregnant with child # 2...

This is what I said in response to her " jackie can i tell you that you telling me all this, seriously makes me want to cry for her.
I mean, she could have done *SO* much out of high school if she would have waited to get married a year or two until she atleast has her AA. I'm not saying she still can't, but it will be alot harder for her having 2 kids. well, hopefully they are strong enough to make it thru all of this." It's like it shouldn't bother me so much but it does...because I know she could have done so much right out of high school if she wouldn't have gotten married....

[welfareloser]

getting married wasn't her problem. her problem is that she either doesn't know what she wants, or she's in complete denial as to where her actions are going to land her. i'll revert to my original point: you can't save her. she's unsavable. she's incapable of acting rationally, thinking ahead, or doing something that's tough (not that being a mom isn't tough, but when it comes to other things, she's having a problem facing her problems...) all you can do is either help her and support her when she needs it, or wash your hands of her.