Sodium - the 5th food group

[OC]

The next time you're at the grocery store, check the sodium content of your favorite foods. Pasta sauce, yogurt, chips, salad dressing - just about every pre-packaged food product is loaded with sodium. See for yourself.

-OC

[DoPeY5007]

My bag of pretzels has 24% of your sugested intake :eek:

[Ladogaboy]

First of all, salt is not as bad for you as many other things that you will find in pre-processed foods.

Second, since I generally avoid most pre-processed foods, my salt intake isn't all that high. :shrug:

[molecularfire]

It sounds bad until you look at the grams of sodium in processed foods. Heck, it's less sodium than I put into food when I cook for myself.

MMmmmmm Salty fries. :drool:

[welfareloser]

you learn that as soon as you have someone in the fambly git put on one o them low sodium diets...

or as soon as you start caring what your kid eats.

[sho.gun]

ugh I eat a lot of salt in my foods too, but oddly I love them.

Ever notice that one of those Cup O' Noodles stuff, like Maruchan, has over 50% of your daily sodium intake value?

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by DoPeY5007
My bag of pretzels has 24% of your sugested


exactly man, SUGGESTED ;)

[Napoleon54]

mmm... hypertension, arteriosclerosis, stroke, kidney damage, bloating...

It's very true that many processed foods contain high amounts of sodium. Adding salt is a cheap way of increasing flavor because salt is a cheap ingredient. Unfortunatly, high sodium intake can contribute significantly to lots of health problems.

[revil]

i have a friend who has a salt shaker on his desk. he will randomly shake some salt into his hand and put it in his mouth. he says he likes the taste...

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by Napoleon54
hypertension,

Only true for about .1% of the population.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
arteriosclerosis,

This can be caused by any number of things including smoking, high cholesterol, stress, lack of exercise, etc.



Originally posted by Napoleon54
stroke,

This is usually caused by arteriosclerosis, which, as I said above hasn't really been connected to sodium intake in anyway.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
kidney damage,

Kidney damage comes from dehydration. It has nothing to do with the amount of salt you take in, but rather a lack of water intake. Americans as a whole take in far less water and other non-diuretic liquids than they should.
Also, on a side note, increasing your intake of salt in hot, arid areas--given you are taking in enough liquid--can actually prevent dehydration.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
bloating...

This is caused more by inactivity than anything else. The people that have to worry about bloating are usually people that live sedentary lifestyles.

Just FYI.

[GraingerGuy]

Originally posted by revil
i have a friend who has a salt shaker on his desk. he will randomly shake some salt into his hand and put it in his mouth. he says he likes the taste...

My girlfriend does this...except she doesn't keep a salt shaker in her backpack. She does, however, love salt on her lemons....:|

[LPMiller]

I carry around a salt lick where ever I go.

[coleslaw]

Originally posted by LPMiller
I carry around a salt lick where ever I go. Is it on a rope around your neck? :heh:

[LPMiller]

no, I keep it in the trunk, along with my emergency backup porn collection.

[revil]

Originally posted by cpugeek04

*whew* i'm not the only one with a backup
What happens if someone steals your backup why your looking at NaughtyNachosInLace.com and sudennly the power goes out. you then have no porn what so ever!

you should do what I do, have a backup collection for my backup porn collection. redundancy ensures protection!









i think i need sleep.

[LPMiller]

I use a quality UPPS for just such a thing. Universal Power Porn System.

[IntegraTypeR]

I thought that Ho Ho's were the 5th food group ;)

[Napoleon54]

Originally posted by Ladogaboy


Everything above
I think you're missing the point. There's a huge difference between saying that excessive sodium intake can lead to health problems and saying that excessive sodium intake is the primary cause of said health problems.


hypertension
Only true for about .1% of the population.
What is that statistic referring to? The fact that high sodium intake causes hypertension is well documented. link (http://my.webmd.com/encyclopedia/article/1817.50788#aa32267) Hypertension (and thus sodium intake) leads to a whole slew of health problems.

arteriosclerosis
This can be caused by any number of things including smoking, high cholesterol, stress, lack of exercise, etc.

True, but not relevant. Hypertension causes arteriosclerosis. High sodium causes hypertension. Although arteriosclerosis is not necessarily a direct complication of a high sodium diet, they are indirectly linked via high blood pressure.

stroke
This is usually caused by arteriosclerosis, which, as I said above hasn't really been connected to sodium intake in anyway.
Two major causes of stroke are hypertension and arteriosclerosis, both of which are directly or indirectly contributed to by high sodium intake. See above.

kidney damage
Kidney damage comes from dehydration. It has nothing to do with the amount of salt you take in...
Kidney damage is another common complication of high blood pressure, which can be caused by high sodium intake.


Also, on a side note, increasing your intake of salt in hot, arid areas--given you are taking in enough liquid--can actually prevent dehydration.
True. See below.


bloating
This is caused more by inactivity than anything else. The people that have to worry about bloating are usually people that live sedentary lifestyles.

Increased salt intake can prevent dehydration because it makes you thirsty, thereby leading you to drink more liquids. Eating excessive amounts of salt, then drinking excessive fluids to compensate, can lead to bloating.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by Napoleon54

I think you're missing the point. There's a huge difference between saying that excessive sodium intake can lead to health problems and saying that excessive sodium intake is the primary cause of said health problems.

Okay, well that's my fault for misunderstanding you. It just sounded very much like you were saying that sodium was the cause of all the aforementioned ailments. You're right, increased sodium intake could cause those problems, but usually only in combination with other factors.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
What is that statistic referring to?

It is referring to a statistic given to my one of my professors. I probably should have asked him for his source, but according to him, less than .1% of the population suffers from sodium induced hypertension. In other words, a direct link between sodium intake and hypertension only exists for a small portion of the population.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
The fact that high sodium intake causes hypertension is well documented. link (http://my.webmd.com/encyclopedia/article/1817.50788#aa32267) Hypertension (and thus sodium intake) leads to a whole slew of health problems.

It would be more accurate to say that high sodium intake CAN cause hypertension, but it does not necessarily do so. Also, as I've mentioned before, other factors usually play a more significant role.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
Hypertension causes arteriosclerosis.

Not necessarily true. Other factors can cause arteriosclerosis as well. For instance, my father suffers from arteriosclerosis which is a direct result of nicotine/smoking. Sodium isn't a factor.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
High sodium causes hypertension.

Again, not necessarily. It can, but only in a relatively small percentage of the population. Many other factors play a role in hypertension. Obesity and lack of exercise are just a couple of possibilities.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
Although arteriosclerosis is not necessarily a direct complication of a high sodium diet, they are indirectly linked via high blood pressure.

They CAN be indirectly linked.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
Two major causes of stroke are hypertension and arteriosclerosis, both of which are directly or indirectly contributed to by high sodium intake. See above.

Yup, see above.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
Kidney damage is another common complication of high blood pressure, which can be caused by high sodium intake.

Kidneys are affected more by hydration than they are by high blood pressure. Sure, high blood pressure can cause damage to anything with blood passing through it, but it is no the only cause of damage.
One case to illustrate what I am talking about is the scare with creatine monohydrate. Many prep school athletes started dying or suffering from kidney faliure because they were taking creatine. It wasn't just that they were taking creatine; it was also that they were not increasing their water intake. If you start to use a creatine supplement, you need to start increasing your water intake in order to prevent kidney damage.

My point is simply that if you start taking in more salt without taking in more water, you are bound to become dehydrated and suffer from some sort of kidney damage.


Originally posted by Napoleon54
True. See below.

Increased salt intake can prevent dehydration because it makes you thirsty, thereby leading you to drink more liquids. Eating excessive amounts of salt, then drinking excessive fluids to compensate, can lead to bloating.

It can, but that is usually only with people who are living a more or less sedentary lifestyle. Diuretics are usually used to prevent bloating by forcing the body to pee out more water, but this is used mainly for inactive people. Active people rarely suffer from bloating.

Oh, another example of this is people in the military. Anyone here who served in the military probably had to take salt pills if they were in certain parts of the world. Most people in the military are required to exercise. How many of them suffer from bloating? "Sorry, Sarge. I can't march today. I took one of those salt pills, drank a canteen of water, and now I'm bloated."


My main point is that you can't blame salt for all of those ills. So many other things can cause those diseases that it would be hard to accurately measure salt's true effects. If you'll notice, almost every study that follows sodium's effects on hypertension is also testing high fat diets and other factors at the same time. There definitely needs to be more research done in this area, but that will take time. Meanwhile, I'm sticking to my guns. Salt is your friend. :hihi:

[Napoleon54]

Clarification: Throughout this discussion I refer to 1)excessive intake of sodium; that is, sodium intake that greatly exceeds the recommended daily allowance, and 2)the health problems that may arise from said excessive sodium intake.


Originally posted by Ladogaboy
Okay, well that's my fault for misunderstanding you. It just sounded very much like you were saying that sodium was the cause of all the aforementioned ailments. You're right, increased sodium intake could cause those problems, but usually only in combination with other factors.
Agreed. No need to discuss further. I think that we can agree to the following: 1)Excessive sodium may, under the right conditions, lead to all the aforementioned problems. It is not the culprit in every case. 2)For the cases in which sodium is a factor, it is most likey accompanied by other factors as well.

I'll only respond to the items with which I still have disagreements.

It is referring to a statistic given to my one of my professors. I probably should have asked him for his source, but according to him, less than .1% of the population suffers from sodium induced hypertension. In other words, a direct link between sodium intake and hypertension only exists for a small portion of the population.

A more useful statistic would be the percentage of people on high sodium diets who suffer from hypertension. I believe that number will be relatively high. Assuming it is, it would then be reasonable to say that high sodium diets generally lead to hypertension.

Oh, another example of this is people in the military. Anyone here who served in the military probably had to take salt pills if they were in certain parts of the world. Most people in the military are required to exercise. How many of them suffer from bloating? "Sorry, Sarge. I can't march today. I took one of those salt pills, drank a canteen of water, and now I'm bloated."
I never said that salt always leads to bloating. I said it CAN lead to bloating.

My main point is that you can't blame salt for all of those ills.
This comes right back to the very first thing I said in my first response.
Originally posted by Napoleon54 There's a huge difference between saying that excessive sodium intake can lead to health problems and saying that excessive sodium intake is the primary cause of said health problems.
I never said anything remotely like "Salt is the primary cause of kidney failure." I simply said that salt is ONE potential cause of kidney failure.

There definitely needs to be more research done in this area, but that will take time.Agreed completely. I like research. Research is good. Let us do lots of research. On everything. Research is life.
I really enjoy this kind of discussion/ debate, thanks. :)

One 2 ounce serving of :spam: contains 750mg of sodium. :puke:

[Ladogaboy]

Whew, it's good that we agree... :shifty:

:P




Originally posted by Napoleon54
A more useful statistic would be the percentage of people on high sodium diets who suffer from hypertension. I believe that number will be relatively high. Assuming it is, it would then be reasonable to say that high sodium diets generally lead to hypertension.


Yes, but I could also say that a more useful statistic would be the percentage of people with hypertension who eat a healthy diet (i.e. high in complex carbos, moderate protein, low fat, low sugar, and with proper vitamin intakes) and exercise regularly, but have an excessive sodium intake. Unfortunately, most people who have an excessive sodium intake have a diet that is subpar in many other ways, so it is really difficult to separate the two.

The best example of what I am talking about is a classic Vietnamese diet. Many dieticians have lauded it as being one of the healthiest diets possible. Meat is used almost as a condiment. Meals are rife with high carbohydrates and fresh, leafy vegetables and herbs. But with that, there one aspect that--in any other diet--would be considered egregious: the level of sodium. One of the staples of a Vietnamese diet is nuoc mam (fish sauce), which is extremely high in sodium. This is one of the things I find so funny: on one hand, salt is considered a bad thing, but on the other, a diet that is high in sodium content is considered one of the healthiest in the world. :shrug:

[LPMiller]

high sodium diets tend to be high beef diets, or high fatty food diets. Pinning the troubles just on sodium is inaccurate.

There has been much work done of late to show that it isn't just sodium, it's sodium plus other dietary, lifestyle factors.

But, too much of anything isn't a good thing.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by LPMiller
But, too much of anything isn't a good thing.

Except too much G|A?! :P


pssst, GAM, don't forget the kickback! :D