Morrowind Raped Me

[Cantacuzene]

So I actually pay money for a game and what happens? The game has some copy protection thing on the cd that makes my cd drive unable to read it. It can't even recognize that there is a cd in the drive. I emailed their tech support but we all know they will never answer it and their phone number is closed, ofcourse.

What should I do? I cant return the game to the store because I opened it. This is mildly ridiculous. Its reasons like this that I dont usually buy games.

[Merlin]

If you used a credit card, purchase protection might cover you. Otherwise take it back as defective.

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by Merlin
If you used a credit card, purchase protection might cover you. Otherwise take it back as defective.

I would return it as defective, but they wouldnt believe me. They would assume I just burnt the game and trying ot return it.

I'm going to borrow a cd rom drive from someone else to see if it will run on another drive.

[IrishSS]

Return it at WalMart... they'll take it back. Just say it doesnt work on your system. They'll at least let you exchange it for somethin...

[Cantacuzene]

Update: I borrowed a cd rom drive from some dudes downstairs to install the game. Then I went to GameCopyWorld to get the patch to play without the cd in the drive and returned the drive to them and put mine back in.

[sbp]

Check for an updated firmware for the cd-rom drive.

Thank the warez monkies for this sad state of affairs.

[Cantacuzene]

I checked, no firmware. :mad:

The warez community isnt to blame. As I've always said, copy protection only hurts the paying customer. The warez people had no problem playing this game, whereas paying customers were harmed. Putting copy protection on a cd is ridiculous because anyone can copy it anyway and it doesnt stop the warez.

[sbp]

Are game companies are just doing this to p1ss off paying customers? Should games have no copy protection?

[Raider007]

i've read on many forums that people are downloading the nocd thing just to get around this "extream" copy protection. They also say that it speeds up the game. So i guess this is one of the times paying customers can thank the warez community for helping (with alittle work) them play the game better?

Personally, i don't care about copy protection, wasn't like DVD's hacked with a simple 7 lines of code after all that went into it? they are always going to find a way around it, it's like a cat and mouse game...oh well...whatever...

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by sbp
Are game companies are just doing this to p1ss off paying customers? Should games have no copy protection?

Well they certainly aren't bothering the warez people, so i tmust be targetted at the consumer. I imagine the only people this stops from copying are computer illiterate parents or young kids, neither of whom are hard core pirates anyway. Its pretty useless.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by sbp
Are game companies are just doing this to p1ss off paying customers? Should games have no copy protection?

Uh, copy protection that causes a paying customer to be unable to install the product, yet doesn't actually effect warezing in any way shape or form isn't exactly the brightest idea.

We've actually had this debate over at a dev/publisher forum. Safedisc sucks, most devs hate to use it, but the publishers have been sold a bill of goods by Macrovision and force it on them. It doesn't do what it's supposed to do,yet has a 1-3 percent complaint rate because folks can't read the disks.

Sure, blame warezing for the need to copy protect. But blame the publishers for using such crappy protection to begin with, and for selling you a product you can't use.

[DoPeY5007]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene


What should I do? I cant return the game to the store because I opened it. This is mildly ridiculous. Its reasons like this that I dont usually buy games. you might be able to exchange it for the same item....

[coleslaw]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
Update: I borrowed a cd rom drive from some dudes downstairs to install the game. Then I went to GameCopyWorld to get the patch to play without the cd in the drive and returned the drive to them and put mine back in. So how are you enjoying the game otherwise?

[sbp]

Yep Safedisc does suck.

Another thing that sucks is installing a whole game on the hard drive yet being forced to have a cd in the drive.

What are possible solutions?

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by sbp
Yep Safedisc does suck.

Another thing that sucks is installing a whole game on the hard drive yet being forced to have a cd in the drive.

What are possible solutions? '

No-cd cracks are the only solution that i know of.

[sbp]

Originally posted by Jihforce
'

No-cd cracks are the only solution that i know of. What are the solutions for the problem of copy protection and warez?

[Cantacuzene]

As far as the game itself, I'm liking it. I wish I had a better computer, as this game is graphically amazing. My Gf2 gts isnt cutting it. I'd be enjoying it more if I could see all the amazing graphical special effects in the game.

I'm not the type of person to become immersed in a game to the point where I lose track of time. I usually play for an hour or so and dont play again until the next day, so long RPGs arent usually my thing, but this may be different.

[Merlin]

Originally posted by sbp
What are the solutions for the problem of copy protection and warez?

That's easy. Do what the old Atari 2600 did - put the games on cartridges. This would be the best of both worlds. Just imagine if the next generation motherboard came with two cartridge slots. On one you have your Windows cartridge, your harddrive would only house update files, personal settings, and devise drivers. Your computer would boot trememdously fast and upgrading would take 5 seconds. The other slot could be hot swappable and games or other major programs (MS Office)could be put there. Reduces installation problems, increases load/response times, and is less apt to get corrupted. And it would really put a crimp in piracy.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by sbp
What are the solutions for the problem of copy protection and warez?

Unfortunately, there really isn't a solution for copy protection and warez. There's always going to be someone out there that's going to be on step ahead.
I know most people hate Safedisc and such, but I think the upside is that it is actually working in some cases. Unlike in the past, a certain percentage of games cannot be copied successfully. That, for software companies, is better than not having any protection and letting the public just burn and distribute games freely.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Jihforce


Unfortunately, there really isn't a solution for copy protection and warez. There's always going to be someone out there that's going to be on step ahead.
I know most people hate Safedisc and such, but I think the upside is that it is actually working in some cases. Unlike in the past, a certain percentage of games cannot be copied successfully. That, for software companies, is better than not having any protection and letting the public just burn and distribute games freely.

That isn't true - Safedisc isn't working at all. Heck, Morrowwind was available for download within hours of appearing in stores. Any game can be copied. And is. For that matter, there isn't a game out there in the past 6 months that hasn't been warezed, safedisc or no.

No copy protection is working 100 percent of the time, and it only takes one good warez copy out there to defeat the purpose. About the only copy protection currently that comes close is Id's serial number/server validation, but net validation isn't really practical for everybody.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by LPMiller


That isn't true - Safedisc isn't working at all. Heck, Morrowwind was available for download within hours of appearing in stores. Any game can be copied. And is. For that matter, there isn't a game out there in the past 6 months that hasn't been warezed, safedisc or no.

Sure every game can be copied. However, just because it has been copied, doesn't mean it works on every machine that is played. If you think about it, the fact that some original games don't even work properly on everyone's computer should tell you something. Not all warez works 100% of the time. And the peope that can't run the games for one reason or another are left with no choice but to buy the software or not play the game.
Safedisc may or may not work all the time. But I forces people to find work arounds which in many cases, causes the game to be unstable or not run properly. In those instances, I believe that Safedisc has done its job. Imagine if people were to be able to simply copy and run games? No cracks and patches would be needed and all copied games would work like the originals.


No copy protection is working 100 percent of the time, and it only takes one good warez copy out there to defeat the purpose. About the only copy protection currently that comes close is Id's serial number/server validation, but net validation isn't really practical for everybody.

I did specify that Safedisc doesn't work all the time. I also specified that no copy protection can consistantly prevent people from copying it. ID and serial numbers are useless. If you want to talk about a copy protection method not working, ID serial is it.
Nowadays, its much easier to find an serial number than a cd-crack or patch for a program.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Jihforce


Sure every game can be copied. However, just because it has been copied, doesn't mean it works on every machine that is played. If you think about it, the fact that some original games don't even work properly on everyone's computer should tell you something. Not all warez works 100% of the time. And the peope that can't run the games for one reason or another are left with no choice but to buy the software or not play the game.
Safedisc may or may not work all the time. But I forces people to find work arounds which in many cases, causes the game to be unstable or not run properly. In those instances, I believe that Safedisc has done its job. Imagine if people were to be able to simply copy and run games? No cracks and patches would be needed and all copied games would work like the originals.



That doesn't make sense. The warezed versions usually strip out the copy protection, and even include a cracked directory on the ISO files. In fact, I know some folks that downloaded it after buying morrowwind, because it was the only way to install the game. They had to mount the image with daemontools, then install.

There is also a semi official patch out there - the company didn't release it, but you can find it in their forums - to strip out the safedisc code, because the game pauses and jerks all the time otherwise. So again, we have a crack that makes the game more stable.

So how has Safedisc done it's job, when you have to crack it to make it stable? When the warezed version runs better? Pretty sad when paying customers get better support from pirates. And I don't blame the devs, I blame Macrovision. Their product does not work like it should. They tell publishers it cannot be cracked - it can. They tell publishers it is stable and FULLY compatible with drives - it is not. I know they do this, I've heard the publishers tell me this, I've seen it myself at work. They have a product that causes more problems then it solves.

I have nothing against copy protection. But safedisc, while preventing the casual joe blow pirate, also alienates customers. Or makes them jump through hoops they don't need. There are a ton of copy protections out there that would prevent casual copying without breaking drive compatiblity so badly, including the newer versions of Laserlock and cactusshield.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by LPMiller

<LPs Comment>

I don't think you're understanding my point. I'm not saying Safedisc ALWAYS does it job. I'm not saying Safedisc is a great method to prevent pirating. I used Safedisc as an example of a copy protection method that's out there. Much like serial numbers and such. The difference is that serial numbers provide no real protection. I'm sure we can agree on that.
What I am getting at is that copy protection such as Safedisc prevent casual pirates from copying games. Yes, this is at the expense of a some customers, however having it its probably better than not having anything at all and letting the average person copy games and distribute to others.
My other point is that cracks and/or warez don't always work. I'm not going to get into details about it, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

[Ladogaboy]

:2far:

And to think I was wondering why I haven't been playing any games more recent than 2 years old. BTW, I have games more recent than that, I just don't play them.

[Cantacuzene]

You're right jih, safedisc does prevent the retard using EZcdCreator from burning copies of Deer Hunter 4, however, that guy isnt the problem, which is everyone elses point.

I just find it it ironic that the warez community releases a version of the game that plays faster and more reliably on everyones system than the company, because the company is obsessed with stopping casual gamers.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Jihforce


My other point is that cracks and/or warez don't always work. I'm not going to get into details about it, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

No I don't. Because I can't think of one game that hasn't been cracked sucessfully, except quake 3, and them only because of the server side authorization. Which isn't practical for most games, I realize.

Heck, even Everquest has finally been cracked for offline, private server play.

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by LPMiller


No I don't. Because I can't think of one game that hasn't been cracked sucessfully, except quake 3, and them only because of the server side authorization. Which isn't practical for most games, I realize.

Heck, even Everquest has finally been cracked for offline, private server play.

Exactly, I've never heard of a game that hasn't been released by the warez community. Granted you can't play Diablo 2 online without a key, but you can still play single player etc.

[Jihforce]

I'm sure both of you have played every single game that have been warez to know based on first hand experience that they work properly...rriiiigghhttt :rolleyes:
Most popular games played doesn't mean all games ever made.

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by Jihforce
I'm sure both of you have played every single game that have been warez to know based on first hand experience that they work properly...rriiiigghhttt :rolleyes:
Most popular games played doesn't mean all games ever made.

Do you know what an ISO is? A retail ISO is a perfect duplicate of the retail game, with a crack to get around whatever protection it has. They always work, if they didnt work, teh release groups wouldn't release them. If they still don't work that means the retail version of the game wouldnt work on your computer either.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene


Do you know what an ISO is? A retail ISO is a perfect duplicate of the retail game, with a crack to get around whatever protection it has. They always work, if they didnt work, teh release groups wouldn't release them. If they still don't work that means the retail version of the game wouldnt work on your computer either.

Yes I know ISO, I know BIN, I know CCD, I knwo what cue sheet is...blah blah blah. I know what a crack is, a nocd patch is, etc...POINT IS...if you even BOTHER to read my previous posts, is that not ALL cracks work properly. It affects certain systems differently than other. It also depends on operating system.
Let me give you an example. The ISO copy for NBA Live 2k (with crack) does not work on windows 2k but it does work on windows 98. The game does work for win2k. I know cuz bought it and still play it on win2k.
Next time you want to generalize, go ahead and try out ALL ISOs for all games THEN tell me if all of them ALWAYS work.

[Merlin]

Okay ladies let me see if I can help with the communication here...

Jihforce --- Every game can be found if you look hard enough. Some files may be corrupt and you may need to try it from a few different sources but a working copy is out there somewhere to be gotten.

Cantacuzene --- Yes working copies of all programs are out there but there are also quite a few crap copies that don't work floating around. Sometimes you download a copy that does not work requiring you to look somewhere else.

Can we all just get along now?

:P

[Cantacuzene]

i dont agree with that. If you download an ISO of a game released by a major release group it will work 100% of the time.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by Merlin
Okay ladies let me see if I can help with the communication here...

Jihforce --- Every game can be found if you look hard enough. Some files may be corrupt and you may need to try it from a few different sources but a working copy is out there somewhere to be gotten.

Cantacuzene --- Yes working copies of all programs are out there but there are also quite a few crap copies that don't work floating around. Sometimes you download a copy that does not work requiring you to look somewhere else.

Can we all just get along now?

:P

Don't worry about it. No biggie. LP and Catacuzene are entitled to their own opinions. My experiences are different. I don't believe that warez groups can release a game that works 100% of the time when the game publishers themselves have problems making sure all of their games work 100% of the time. And my own experiences to back my claim. So I'm gonna leave it at that.

[K2]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
i dont agree with that. If you download an ISO of a game released by a major release group it will work 100% of the time.

:stupid:

not that i know anything about this "stuff" :dodgy: :hmm: :angel:

[Cantacuzene]

When I said the warez versions will work 100% of the time, I meant relative to the retail version. If the retail version works the warez version will work too.

The conception that warez versions are somehow inferior or incomplete is outdated since the age of cd burners began and warez switched it ISO formats.

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
When I said the warez versions will work 100% of the time, I meant relative to the retail version. If the retail version works the warez version will work too.

The conception that warez versions are somehow inferior or incomplete is outdated since the age of cd burners began and warez switched it ISO formats.

Maybe with the high quality pirates that you've encountered. I, however on the other hand, have downloaded stuff on ISO format that didn't work. Like with anything else - garbage in=garbage out.

[Cantacuzene]

You should know who you deal with.

[LPMiller]

Originally posted by Jihforce


Don't worry about it. No biggie. LP and Catacuzene are entitled to their own opinions. My experiences are different. I don't believe that warez groups can release a game that works 100% of the time when the game publishers themselves have problems making sure all of their games work 100% of the time. And my own experiences to back my claim. So I'm gonna leave it at that.

You are giving a different context to what I said. I'm saying, of every game released in the past six months, you can find a working warezed copy. Period. I'm not saying that every game EVAR will work with every computer EVAR, and better because it's warezed. And you know that.

But before this sounds like a forum supporting warez, the whole original point is the failure of safedisc 2 to do it's job. It doesn't stop or even hinder piracy, it does stop legitmate uses of a program. For the price of a 32x lite on drive and a copy of cdmate or clone CD, it doesn't even stop Joe Average. Joe Average isnt' as dumb as he used to be, and knows enough to do a yahoo search.

So the only people it's stopping from copying are folks like my inlaws. Thats hardly effective.

I've talked to devs at Epic, 3D Realms, Shiny, Raven, NovaLogic. They all hate safedisc 2. It sucks, it can make a stable game buggy, like it does with morrowwind. I've talked to Publishers - they have bought into the line Macrovision tells them, but it's crap. All I'm saying is that there are better protections out there that will NOT cause the paying customer the problems Safedisc does. When everyone has a hacksaw, why use the Club to protect your car?

Piracy won't stop, naturally, and with P2P, it gets easier to do it. The best thing, aside from working copy protections, is education. And Not the way the RIAA goes about it, ticking off the paying customers they have. The product needs to be better then what a person can get for free, and people will buy it every time.

[Cantacuzene]

Well said LP, I agree.

I will add that a certain % will ALWAYS pirate the game regardless. The publishers should accept that as a loss and go back to catering to their paying customers.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by LPMiller


You are giving a different context to what I said. I'm saying, of every game released in the past six months, you can find a working warezed copy. Period. I'm not saying that every game EVAR will work with every computer EVAR, and better because it's warezed. And you know that.

Actually most of the stuff I said on my last comment was directed towards Cantacuzene. I do agree with this last comment of yours. I haven't seen a game out there that hasn't been warez, its just that not every one has worked.



But before this sounds like a forum supporting warez, the whole original point is the failure of safedisc 2 to do it's job. It doesn't stop or even hinder piracy, it does stop legitmate uses of a program. For the price of a 32x lite on drive and a copy of cdmate or clone CD, it doesn't even stop Joe Average. Joe Average isnt' as dumb as he used to be, and knows enough to do a yahoo search.

I think that still a significant percentage of people out there that want to copy cds of their games still don't know how to or can't. As with the example I gave earlier with the game I had, it works in one OS, but not in another.


So the only people it's stopping from copying are folks like my inlaws. Thats hardly effective.

I've talked to devs at Epic, 3D Realms, Shiny, Raven, NovaLogic. They all hate safedisc 2. It sucks, it can make a stable game buggy, like it does with morrowwind. I've talked to Publishers - they have bought into the line Macrovision tells them, but it's crap. All I'm saying is that there are better protections out there that will NOT cause the paying customer the problems Safedisc does. When everyone has a hacksaw, why use the Club to protect your car?

I've noticed that some companies (like EA) use the safedisc/serial combination. That's not exactly doing much either though. Now what other protection methods are out there that actually work? As we all know, not even playstation can keep people from pirating.


Piracy won't stop, naturally, and with P2P, it gets easier to do it. The best thing, aside from working copy protections, is education. And Not the way the RIAA goes about it, ticking off the paying customers they have. The product needs to be better then what a person can get for free, and people will buy it every time.

I remember that back in the old days when the software companies where making the transition from diskettes to CDs, the warez folks had the toughest time releasing good copies of games. Most of the warez versions where ripped or had missing music, video or sound. In those cases, I think software companies were able to entice people buy their games versus copying them because their product was better.
This may very well be somewhat of a temporary solution to the problem. Most games are now multiple cds anyway so maybe it could be to their advantage to get them on dvd since most still don't have dvd burners.

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by Jihforce

This may very well be somewhat of a temporary solution to the problem. Most games are now multiple cds anyway so maybe it could be to their advantage to get them on dvd since most still don't have dvd burners.

That's what I would do if I were them, but they wont alienate their paying customers, most of whom dont have DVD-rom yet.

BACK TO MORROWIND...

My guy is a level 19 Red Guard, which is a war-like race of humans. I have pretty cool equipment. This game is addicting though. I recommend if you've been thinking about buying.