PC Laptop or iBook

[CluelessSi]

Wondering which I should get. I am looking for a medium sized screen and light (portable) laptop. I was wondering if there were nice relativly thin laptops that contain a dvd drive. Anyone know the pros and cons about getting a iBook vs PC laptop? Also if PC is the way to go then what brand should I go for?

[Jihforce]

PC Laptop.
I like mac laptops more. but the iBook is not worth it. Powerbook G4 is better, but pricey.

[CluelessSi]

Thanks,
I have a main desktop that I would use for gaming and everything. The laptop will be for when I have to work at school and other places. Also for portable entertainment like watching dvds or stuff like that. What company makes good PC laptops? I want to get one by the end of the summer so I am shopping around now.

[Jeffbx]

Mac or PC would do...

The PC would probably be cheaper, unless you're a full time student. If so, look for the Apple discount program.

I would recommend a Dell refurb (http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfh/products/line_notebooks.htm) - you have to check the site pretty often since it changes constantly, but the prices are about 5-25% less than a new system.

[brainsmile]

I love my IBM thinkpad

[CornMonkey]

"Duuuuuude...you're gonna get a Dell!"

[psycho-]

In terms of pentium 4 laptops, My compaq EVO N800 feels much more sturdy (much smaller too) than the Dell Inspiron 8200. I also like IBMs.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Jihforce
PC Laptop.
I like mac laptops more. but the iBook is not worth it. Powerbook G4 is better, but pricey.

I beg to differ. For 1500 bucks you get a combo drive (cd-rw & dvd), a laptop that weighs 5 lbs, 5 hour battery life, built on ethernet and modem jacks, wireless antenae built in, and a 20 GB harddrive.

The thing is a size of a spiral notebook. It is definitely worth th emoney. Done get me wrong, the powerbook is a great laptop that is much faster, but for the average person, they dont need what it offers.


Wondering which I should get. I am looking for a medium sized screen and light (portable) laptop

Powerbook screen is an extra large screen. Both systems are light. Very few PC's are as light as these are, and most of those only achieve the lightness when the optical drive is out of the system, or without the "cradle" that contains the optical drives. To achieve similar battery life, a second battery is required in a PC, which adds more weight to the system. As CluelessSi stated, he wants something light.

I am proud to say I am a mac faithful, but this is my unbiased opinion. I use both systems, and for a laptop, I highly recommend the iBook over a dell laptop.

Just do not get a compaq/HP laptop, they are some of the biggest pieces I have ever used.

[NullUnit2000]

Perhaps you should consider one of these:

http://members.cox.net/rossworthley/fishermac.jpg

[i6s1]

Go with the iBook. I bought a Dell last year and I wish I would have gotten the iBook.

Compare them side by side for featrues. The PC will appear to be a better value, but the apples have better resale.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by NullUnit2000
Perhaps you should consider one of these:

http://members.cox.net/rossworthley/fishermac.jpg

ok, this picture is the old ibook, which was designed for teh k-12 market. This market is fully of children, so a delicate laptop is not usually something you would want to give children, especially k-3. So apple decided to make the laptop rugged and durable to last in this market. So they made the "clam shell" style case and made sure it was durable. What resulted is a laptop that can be dropped from 3 feet and still keep on working.

The new ibooks are based on the same principle and are designed to be more appealing to the average user. The designed the frame to withstand the shock of being dropped by using magnesium. The case is a durable acyllic, and all drives are mounted on anti-shock pads. What resulted is a rugged laptop. Many educators prefer the older "fisher price" laptop because of the colors, and the extra durability.

I have had both, and personally i like the new ibook because its almost as durable, and a whole lot lighter. I have dropped the new ibook from about 2 1/2 feet with no problems and I have smashed it into walls, desks. and table tops. It keeps on going (these were systems owned by apple and demonstaed to perspective buyers. They came from the general apple inventory pool, so there isnt any difference between internal models and street models)

[CluelessSi]

I am new to Macs (actually I have used them way back in the old days but I have never used them with PC in the network) Does it allow file transfers and everything just as if it was Windows, meaning it can see PCs on the network and PCs can see it? Also does most apps run for both systems because I constantly will have to transfer and get data from both Unix and PC systems so I want to make sure that it can work flawlessly. And how can I sync files between the Mac and the PC? I know windows provides Briefcase, also does it sync files in outlook? I want to sync up sent email so I have a copy of the data on both computers or at least on my main computer.

Thanks.

[yippiekiyeh]

Try this link... Hope this helps (http://www.apple.com/macosx/technologies/darwin.html)

Now I don't know how well this works (YMMV) but it's worth knowing about this.

[i6s1]

"also it makes "software" purchases a no brainer (unless you LIKE buying 2 copies of almost everything... one for PC and one for Apple)"

Of course, if you believe in paying for software, you should be buying 2 copies - one for the laptop, one for the desktop.

[Blu]

I just want to congratulate the board for not posting juvilnile anti-Mac stuff. WTG...

[Jeffbx]

Originally posted by DarkFury

BTW... in many cases, you can LOAD one software copy per machine as long as only one machine is RUNNING that software at a time...


Most publishers actually have changed this rule - what you are describing is known as a floating license, and this is usually more expensive than a single license. You are typically not allowed to install software on any machine if you already have it loaded somewhere else. As long as there is the possibility of both copies running simultaneously, you will be out of license compliance.

So, if you have a dual boot machine, it should be no problem to install Office on both partitions using the same license. However, if you have a laptop and a desktop, you are not complying with the license terms if you install the same package on both machines.

Think of the license like a book - you're not allowed to have it in two places at once, even if no one else is reading it.

Of couse this varies from mfr to mfr... you should read the terms of the agreement if you're thinking of loading a package on more than one machine.

(p.s. - sorry for nitpicking!)

[i6s1]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
I am new to Macs (actually I have used them way back in the old days but I have never used them with PC in the network) Does it allow file transfers and everything just as if it was Windows, meaning it can see PCs on the network and PCs can see it? Also does most apps run for both systems because I constantly will have to transfer and get data from both Unix and PC systems so I want to make sure that it can work flawlessly. And how can I sync files between the Mac and the PC? I know windows provides Briefcase, also does it sync files in outlook? I want to sync up sent email so I have a copy of the data on both computers or at least on my main computer.

Thanks.

Macs are good network citizens and will read and write files on PC networks no problem. If you want to see the apple files from the PC you will need to set up an FTP server on the mac (free) or buy software like "Dave".


Most major apps are available for Mac and PC, and if the program isn't available for the Mac, chances are there is an alternative. See here for more info.
http://www.apple.com/switch/questions/applications/index.html


I don't know about syncing sent email.

[ribitch]

i6s1, good points

as email goes, do you use pop or imap?

imap leaves the message on the server, buit you can also set up mail programs to leave pop on the server and mark it as read. I have a mac.com address, and it is a pop account. I leave the message on the server as well as download it to my machine. This way I can access it from anyplace that has a live internet connection, as well as on my system while its offline.

macs are the easiest machines to set up on a TCP/IP network (in my opinion) You simply plug the cable in, and tell it what device to use in the system prefs.

I work for Central Mich Univ. Resnet, we connect students to the campus network. I am responsible for mac training since most people have never given them a shot. My training session takes as little as 5 minutes with the Q&A included. Wireless networking is just as easy.

As far as file sharing goes, its really easy. Dave will setup the network neighborhood on your system, or you can use the included ftp server. Apple machines can connect to a PC without any problems.

I have purchased versions of fireworks and dreamweaver, and they had both mac and PC disks. Yopu can also use virtual PC, and run those apps in a windows enviroment.

I also agree with BLU. This thread hasnt turned into one giant flame. I am glad to see this board becoming more and more mac friendly. (I partially think this is due to OS X)

Whatever you decide to do, I hope you enjoy your new system.

[xsiled2]

Originally posted by Blu
I just want to congratulate the board for not posting juvilnile anti-Mac stuff. WTG...

to bad Mac cant do the same.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch
i6s1, good points

as email goes, do you use pop or imap?

imap leaves the message on the server, buit you can also set up mail programs to leave pop on the server and mark it as read. I have a mac.com address, and it is a pop account. I leave the message on the server as well as download it to my machine. This way I can access it from anyplace that has a live internet connection, as well as on my system while its offline.

macs are the easiest machines to set up on a TCP/IP network (in my opinion) You simply plug the cable in, and tell it what device to use in the system prefs.

I work for Central Mich Univ. Resnet, we connect students to the campus network. I am responsible for mac training since most people have never given them a shot. My training session takes as little as 5 minutes with the Q&A included. Wireless networking is just as easy.

As far as file sharing goes, its really easy. Dave will setup the network neighborhood on your system, or you can use the included ftp server. Apple machines can connect to a PC without any problems.

I have purchased versions of fireworks and dreamweaver, and they had both mac and PC disks. Yopu can also use virtual PC, and run those apps in a windows enviroment.

I also agree with BLU. This thread hasnt turned into one giant flame. I am glad to see this board becoming more and more mac friendly. (I partially think this is due to OS X)

Whatever you decide to do, I hope you enjoy your new system.


Thanks, I thought about just leaving the email on the server for POP but the main syching I was conserned about is sent mail, because I like to keep a record of that whenever possible.

So without Dave, or usage of the FTP program, Macs can see PCs while PCs can't see and get files from the Mac?

[sbp]

Originally posted by xsiled2


to bad Mac cant do the same. :stupid:

[i6s1]

Originally posted by CluelessSi



So without Dave, or usage of the FTP program, Macs can see PCs while PCs can't see and get files from the Mac?

Correct.

[Blu]

Originally posted by xsiled2


to bad Mac cant do the same.

There is a difference between marketing and slander. Apple's ads only say that macs are easier and here are some people that think so. Do you honestly thing Macs are as hard or harder to use than a PC?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Blu


There is a difference between marketing and slander. Apple's ads only say that macs are easier and here are some people that think so. Do you honestly thing Macs are as hard or harder to use than a PC?

another good point. Apple technology is very easy to learn (like imovie, itunes, iphoto, etc), their systems are stable since you dont have 100 diufferent mobos, with 100 different sound cards. Their OS is designed for simplicity, stability, and usability.

Putting all of these together make the best first time computer experience for somebody that isnt too keen on computers and computer technology.

I have plugged digital cameras, DV cameras, firewire HD's, USB mice, printers, and webcams into my imac and my ibook. I have never had to worry about downloading a driver, or installing needed software. It all worked without the need to restart.

I have a rio 500 and rio 600. iTunes recognizes them right away without any problems. I use my HP 315 camera all the time, and the origianl cd that came with it has never been opened. iPhoto know what the device is and does its thing.

When I had my AMD system, i would plug in my rio and needed to install drivers, and interfacing software. Same with every digital camera I had used (besides a sony mavica).

Apple is simply listening to what their users have found (all gathered from their feedback at apple.com) when they tried the apple platform and advertising their experiences. The www.apple.com/switch website even shows the message thet they had sent apple.

Apple is in no way flaming microsoft. Its simply real people with real opinions.

[eSDee]

I can't believe I have stayed out of this thread for so long. I am a longtime PC user, who recently started using Macs as well. I did not "switch" like Mac wants most people to do. But I was required by my jobs to learn the platform, and learn it well. I now support a department at a University, in which about 80% are Mac users. To tell you the truth, whenever a Mac user calls me with a problem, I don't mind at all because Macs are easy to support. The OS is so much simpler to troubleshoot than a Windows machine, and so whenever they have a problem, I'm 99% sure I can fix it.

However easier does not necessarily mean better, it just means more functional. I still use my PC when I get home, but I fire up my powerbook along side. I still prefer the PC over the Mac for personal use, but because of my work, I think Macs are kick ass as well.

Now with that said, if I had $1500 to spend on a laptop, I would buy a PC. The reason for this is because the ibook is a budget Apple laptop. However with $1500 you can get a really nice PC notebook. If you really wanted to make "the switch" to Apple and only want to spend $1500, get a G4 desktop. Or if you can save a little longer, get the Titanium laptop for $2200.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by EsDeeLoco
I can't believe I have stayed out of this thread for so long. I am a longtime PC user, who recently started using Macs as well. I did not "switch" like Mac wants most people to do. But I was required by my jobs to learn the platform, and learn it well. I now support a department at a University, in which about 80% are Mac users. To tell you the truth, whenever a Mac user calls me with a problem, I don't mind at all because Macs are easy to support. The OS is so much simpler to troubleshoot than a Windows machine, and so whenever they have a problem, I'm 99% sure I can fix it.

However easier does not necessarily mean better, it just means more functional. I still use my PC when I get home, but I fire up my powerbook along side. I still prefer the PC over the Mac for personal use, but because of my work, I think Macs are kick ass as well.

Now with that said, if I had $1500 to spend on a laptop, I would buy a PC. The reason for this is because the ibook is a budget Apple laptop. However with $1500 you can get a really nice PC notebook. If you really wanted to make "the switch" to Apple and only want to spend $1500, get a G4 desktop. Or if you can save a little longer, get the Titanium laptop for $2200.

look at store.apple.com and on the lower left corner of the page, there is a link for super specials or something of that nature. This morning there was a powerbook (refurbished) for under 2k. Its an older model, but still plenty of laptop.

[eSDee]

Originally posted by ribitch

look at store.apple.com and on the lower left corner of the page, there is a link for super specials or something of that nature. This morning there was a powerbook (refurbished) for under 2k. Its an older model, but still plenty of laptop.

You mean like THIS ONE (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=41395&highlight=powerbook).

:P

[ribitch]

link (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/83/wo/FZzgB0q5QnuJkHqmJS/0.3.0.3.30.7.0.SpecialDealsFrontPagePromo.0.0.0.0.3.1.1.0?105,46)

[xsiled2]

Originally posted by Blu


There is a difference between marketing and slander. Apple's ads only say that macs are easier and here are some people that think so. Do you honestly thing Macs are as hard or harder to use than a PC?

its like aol, just an os...

[ChrisMG187]

Originally posted by xsiled2


its like aol, just an os... xsiled,
grow up. Personally, I think WinXP is more like AOL than Mac OSX. Before this year the only Mac computers I had ever used were the old PowerPC ones and Mac Classic. Oh, and the Apple IIG. When I got into my Multimedia class this year and we were working on G4's I have to say that they were stable as hell. The MacOS is very intuitive and easy to pick up. I had learned it in 10mins. iTunes is far superior to any program I have found for the PC. The only time I had a problem with one of the Macs was when some stupid kid decided to delete random system files, but I popped in the OS9 cd, booted from it, reinstalled, and everything was back to normal. I didn't have to format the drive or anything.

Before you judge something, take the time to use it, OK?

[OC]

I just don't have the Mac gene I guess. As recently as two months ago I sat down with a Mac and tried to use it. TRIED. The only word that comes to mind is "counterintuitive", and I'm being generous with that.

Gimme an iBook (or iMac for that matter) so I can play with Linux, but otherwise I'll stick with XP. I hate the XP "candy" interface as much as the next guy, but I just change it back to Classic and go to town - AND I'm instantly productive.

Y'all want your Macs, go for it. If you were born with the Mac gene, great. They're just not the thing for me, that's all.

-OC

[ribitch]

Originally posted by ChrisMG187
xsiled,
grow up. Personally, I think WinXP is more like AOL than Mac OSX. Before this year the only Mac computers I had ever used were the old PowerPC ones and Mac Classic. Oh, and the Apple IIG. When I got into my Multimedia class this year and we were working on G4's I have to say that they were stable as hell. The MacOS is very intuitive and easy to pick up. I had learned it in 10mins. iTunes is far superior to any program I have found for the PC. The only time I had a problem with one of the Macs was when some stupid kid decided to delete random system files, but I popped in the OS9 cd, booted from it, reinstalled, and everything was back to normal. I didn't have to format the drive or anything.

Before you judge something, take the time to use it, OK?

I'm glad somebody else said this before I did. I'm also glad to see that MOST people on this board arent as closed minded as they were when i first started visiting this site.

overclocked, I am cuirous about what os you were using. Is it 9.x or X? I do not like the "classic" mac OS at all anymore. I prefer OS X.

[CluelessSi]

How does the Mhz compare b/t the G3 ibooks and the P4s?

I am considering either a sony, fujitsu, toshiba or an ibook. leaning towards getting a pc just because of the familiar enviroment but the ibook does provide a nice battery life and cd rom inclusion in a relativly small case.. decisions decisions....

[ribitch]

a G3 is more like a celeron than a P4. The G4 has speeds comparable to the P4. The newsest iBook that I have used was a 500, and that was decent for speed. Its not a powerbook, but its more than usable. In fact, I have used it for video editting with Final Cut Pro.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch
a G3 is more like a celeron than a P4. The G4 has speeds comparable to the P4. The newsest iBook that I have used was a 500, and that was decent for speed. Its not a powerbook, but its more than usable. In fact, I have used it for video editting with Final Cut Pro.

really! hm.... so as far as power then it is better to get a p4 1.0+ ghx then to get the G3 700mhz or so right?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi


really! hm.... so as far as power then it is better to get a p4 1.0+ ghx then to get the G3 700mhz or so right?

I would get a 700 MHz G3 over a 1.0GHz intel.

The G3 has a shorted pipeline than a P4, so the Mhz to MHz rating isnt staright forward.

[Speedfreak]

Originally posted by Blu
I just want to congratulate the board for not posting juvilnile anti-Mac stuff. WTG...

Well, there is no need to post the givens.

[Speedfreak]

Originally posted by ribitch
In fact, I have used it for video editting with Final Cut Pro.

Well, you can use almost anything for video editing, it will be how fast it is that matters. So, Clueless, if that is what you need if for, then just look at the speed of the cpu, memory and HD space possibly.

[i6s1]

Genearlly, take the MHz of an Apple CPU and double it. So a 700MHz G3 would be comparable to a 1.4GHz PIII. There are some cases where the speed is triple.

The reason is that P4s have a 20 step pipeline, with each step taking 1 clock cycle. The G4's have a 7 step pipeline.

[Speedfreak]

Originally posted by i6s1
Genearlly, take the MHz of an Apple CPU and double it. So a 700MHz G3 would be comparable to a 1.4GHz PIII. There are some cases where the speed is triple.

The reason is that P4s have a 20 step pipeline, with each step taking 1 clock cycle. The G4's have a 7 step pipeline.

The reason is, Apple wants you to have to buy the newest software so they don't add the architecture in the cpus to be backwards compatible, making them faster, but loosing of older programs.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Speedfreak


Well, you can use almost anything for video editing, it will be how fast it is that matters. So, Clueless, if that is what you need if for, then just look at the speed of the cpu, memory and HD space possibly.

sure you can use almost anything for video editting. I wouldnt use a PC though. The software on a CD is very poor, and the systems are nowhere near as capable as a mac is for the task.

As far as speed goes, you cannot compare apples to PC's(AMD/Intel based since apple is technically a PC) More memory the better as long as its not in win 9x, where the system looses some performance with over 256 MB of RAM (i'm not bashing with this statement, but the 9x kern. has dificulty with large amount sof ram). Harddrive space is a must too. Remember, you CAN and WILL eventually fill up the harddrive (remember when 2 gigs was an enormous amount, and you said it would be a waste to get the 3.4 GB)

[ChrisMG187]

Originally posted by Speedfreak


The reason is, Apple wants you to have to buy the newest software so they don't add the architecture in the cpus to be backwards compatible, making them faster, but loosing of older programs. Umm, I don't think this is true... Sure OSX requires you to start up classic to run older apps, but that's because it's Unix based and needs to load up the systems needed to run the older progs.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Speedfreak


The reason is, Apple wants you to have to buy the newest software so they don't add the architecture in the cpus to be backwards compatible, making them faster, but loosing of older programs.

definitely not true. A G4 is backwards compatible with all powerPC systems. Apple has made it clear that they don't like legacy technology. This can be seen in the elimination of PS/2, Serial, and parallel ports. As well as the floppy disk. In exchange for this older, SLOWER technology, we get the benefits of firewire, USB, & 802.3 standard. Plus 802.11b for 99.00 on all models (or included on a select few modes)

why spend 3500.00 for a cutting edge system that can do create CD's in minutes, and DVD;s like nobodies business, but comes to a near halt when you write a 1 MB file to a floppy disk or print a large color picture? Those technologies are slowing down the system, and therefore need to be pahsed out. They had their time in the spotlight, now its time for new technology to replace them.

Seriously, Have you ever tried to print a full color high resolution 8 1/2 * 11 picture using parallel? If not, make sure you have some time on your hands. Or have you ever triend to install a program liek office with floppies? Again, better have some time to kill. Very few people use floppies today. The are slow, prone to easy data loss, and have no capacity.

Apple makes FREE software for the average consumer. iTumes, iDVD, iMovie, iPhoto. If you are using the system for something more than the average consumer, then they make software for you as well, but they have a steep learning curve when compared to iApps, and most people have no use for these. These are Final Cut Pro, Cinema Tools, DVD Studio Pro, Remote Desktop, and WebObjects.

For the average person, an iMac or iBook is all they need. With these systems, you get Apple Works (an office suite), a few games, a few refernce programs, all the iApps (except iDDV unless you have the DVD burner), and some misc other programs that will make the users experience as simplistic as possible. You buy the system, and bring home 1 box. Plug in you power, keyboard, mouse, modem/ethernet connection, and anyt USB or firewire devices you maay have. No extra drivers needed, no extra software needed, just everything you need all in one package.

I have used macs for 2 years now. I have yet to install any extra drivers for ANY of my third party devices, including USB floppy drives (for use with a sony mavica), USB cameras, USB webcams, USB printers, network printers, firewire cameras, and firewire harddrives.

[jase71]

Originally posted by Speedfreak


The reason is, Apple wants you to have to buy the newest software so they don't add the architecture in the cpus to be backwards compatible, making them faster, but loosing of older programs.

As someone has said, the CPUs and hardware ARE backwards compatible.

And as for software, I applaud them for cutting the cord, and not trying to be 100% backwards compatible with older systems.

Half of the problems with Win9x were in the hodgepodge of 16 and 32 bit code needed to run 32 bit apps, and yet keep backwards compatibility with older 16bit Win3.0 apps. Had they made a clean break, and made Win9x 32bit ONLY, they might have turned it into a far more stable OS than it was.

A big part of the stability of Win2K and XP is the removal of a lot of the legacy crap that was handcuffing 9x.

Cutting the cord now and then is a GOOD thing. Apple was long overdue for it, and it's helped them immensely, just like the 2K/XP break helped MS.

[Speedfreak]

If we are talking average user, the a PC will do just fine also. It will have a program for anything you want to do, plus more. If you want more options when editing video or audio, then get a mac. If you don't need all those extra abilites for editing video and audio, but want something that will allow you to use many more applications, get a PC. You can't do as many things on a mac that you can on a pc, but there are a few areas that a mac will give you more ability. Most people that I have heard of that use a mac are "media technitions" (as I like to call them) or heavy in to video/audio/picture manipulation. I guess that is what Macs are for.

Besides, I have seen many people using Internet Explorer and MS Office on their Macs. On there UNIX OSX. Yet, they still want to say that Macs have better overall software while using ther PC software on a Mac.

By the way, ribitch... the Dell website has nothing to do with humor. Might want to check your links page. ;)

[Jeffbx]

Originally posted by DarkFury

I'm sure that YOU buy multiple copies of everything right? Or do you only have one computer? :pfft:

Just clarifying the rules....

For work, *absolutely* I buy multiple copies of everything. For home, I make do with what I have ;)

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Speedfreak
If we are talking average user, the a PC will do just fine also. It will have a program for anything you want to do, plus more. If you want more options when editing video or audio, then get a mac. If you don't need all those extra abilites for editing video and audio, but want something that will allow you to use many more applications, get a PC. You can't do as many things on a mac that you can on a pc, but there are a few areas that a mac will give you more ability. Most people that I have heard of that use a mac are "media technitions" (as I like to call them) or heavy in to video/audio/picture manipulation. I guess that is what Macs are for.

Besides, I have seen many people using Internet Explorer and MS Office on their Macs. On there UNIX OSX. Yet, they still want to say that Macs have better overall software while using ther PC software on a Mac.

By the way, ribitch... the Dell website has nothing to do with humor. Might want to check your links page. ;)

I am trying my vest to not start a flame war, so bear with me.

Today, the average user is finding there is more to a computer than games and web browsing. Why sepnd 2000 to play games when an 199.00 xbox or PS2 will do them better and rarely need to be upgraded to play the latest and greatest game. That when users discover they can edit pictures, or start a digital music collection, and some even try nonlinear video editting. Not all users will try video editting, but if they can do it using a computer that starts under 1000.00 with the only additional cost being the camera, they might just as well try. You would be suprised about how many people get crazy and try it. Its more than just a few. Most people with a computer either have or are considering a digital camera. With a windows box, that means you need to install drivers and stuff liek that. Most users are uncomfortable doing this or often dont get it working correctly. Apple simply makes the drivers unnecessary, and your camera works by plugging it in. Wow, plug in play that actually works! (getting close to a flame, so I will move to a new point)

Tell me what a PC can do that a mac can't? A mac can run Windows Apps using virtual PC. Games on the apple platform arent as widely available, but most popular games (current top 20) are available for apple, or will soon be available (with many enhancements, and bug fixes).

As far as internet explorer goes, I prefer not to use it on my mac. It seems to crash often (go figure). I am currently using Chimera. It never seems to crash and is extremely fast. Office is available, and is widly used. I have a copy of it, and I use it all the time. Why? Office documents are industry standard for all office type applications (unless you want a PDF). I have yet to see a company release a product that can correctly read and write all the filetypes wih supporrt for all features. Ubtil a compan y can release a product with 100% M$ office compatibility, then I might switch, until then MS office will work.

You also aparently didnt get the humor in the dell link. :D Maybe you will someday. Thanks for reminding me about that page. I need to add some more content to it. I never got around to that, so in the next week or so I will add some more.

[Speedfreak]

Originally posted by ribitch
I am trying my vest to not start a flame war, so bear with me.

Good, me neither. There should be no flaming about it. It's simply a debate. There is no reason for flaming.


With a windows box, that means you need to install drivers and stuff liek that. Most users are uncomfortable doing this or often dont get it working correctly. Apple simply makes the drivers unnecessary, and your camera works by plugging it in. Wow, plug in play that actually works! (getting close to a flame, so I will move to a new point)

You seemed to be generalizing here. I plug my camera in my USB port and it acts as a removable harddrive. No drivers needed. No picture programs needed to see what is on it. I am really interested to know if you have used Windows XP. Mac users rave about the newest Mac OS (hey, a unix based OS is great. Even Mac users say it is so much better than the old crap OS's of Macs) yet they still make references to Windows that are not present in XP.


Tell me what a PC can do that a mac can't?

Run any MS software straight out of the box. A lot of people don't like MS software and most Mac users are so happy to have OSX that is Unix based. Yet, for a lot of them, they have the need to run Virtual PC so they can run important programs such as an "internet browser" and "a suite of office programs". How can it be said that Macs can do as much as a pc when it's own software is not compatible with the industry standard.


You also aparently didnt get the humor in the dell link. :D

Please, give me your reasoning. I don't think I will ever see humor in a company that makes great products and that I know are great because I have used them. Unless it is just simply the fact that you are a Mac person and that would be funny to you. Hopefully there is more to it than that.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Speedfreak


Good, me neither. There should be no flaming about it. It's simply a debate. There is no reason for flaming.



You seemed to be generalizing here. I plug my camera in my USB port and it acts as a removable harddrive. No drivers needed. No picture programs needed to see what is on it. I am really interested to know if you have used Windows XP. Mac users rave about the newest Mac OS (hey, a unix based OS is great. Even Mac users say it is so much better than the old crap OS's of Macs) yet they still make references to Windows that are not present in XP.


i run XP at work, and used to use both RC's and final version on my old AMD system. I have had plenty of experience with it. Yes a camera shows up as a removable disk, same as with a mac. My poiunt was drivers are rarely if ever needed on a mac. Windows often requires extra drivers to get a device working. XP is better with plug and play, but not fully there yet.



Run any MS software straight out of the box. A lot of people don't like MS software and most Mac users are so happy to have OSX that is Unix based. Yet, for a lot of them, they have the need to run Virtual PC so they can run important programs such as an "internet browser" and "a suite of office programs". How can it be said that Macs can do as much as a pc when it's own software is not compatible with the industry standard.


MS office is deveopled natively for macs, same as IE, and netscape, and at least a half dozen other browsers. Virtual PC isnt needed for these. Sure you can run a PC browser on a mac with virtual PC, but why would you want to? From this statement it is clear you never used a mac to browse the web. Many business apps are on a mac. The ones that arent are the apps developed specially for a company, or apps that are used to maintain a windows enviroment. Apples software is very compatible with industry standards. MPEG, MP3, PDF, DOC, AVI, XLS, MOV, PPT, JPEG, GIF, HTML, PHP, CGI, PSP, and many more are all STANDARDIZED file formats. I have yet to see a mac that cant read or write any of these files. They dont execute EXE files without virtual pc because they are files compiled for the x86 architecture. If it doesnt run natively, then virtual PC will run it. Personally, I dont use virtual PC because it really isnt needed.



Please, give me your reasoning. I don't think I will ever see humor in a company that makes great products and that I know are great because I have used them. Unless it is just simply the fact that you are a Mac person and that would be funny to you. Hopefully there is more to it than that.
I find dell humorous because of products like a new flat panel my department recieved that was faulty and needed to be replaced. We ended up with a refurb instead of a new one, even though the screen had never been used. Or the stack of PIII 733 optiplexs we have stripped out sitting in a storage room because they are all dead. Yes they have some nice systems, so does gateway, but they also seem to have a higher failure rate than some other systems I have seen. Many people swear by dell, I guess I am hjust not one of them. If i were to use a desktop PC, i would build it, if I were to buy a laptop, it would be an apple powerbook.


Darkfury, sorry to sound like the cheerleader, But I am just trying to clear up some m,isunderstandings about the apple platform. Yes, I am now a loyalist, but I am openminded when it comes to computer systems. I use them all(except any HP/Compaq computer or emachines, etc).

[Speedfreak]

Originally posted by ribitch
Windows often requires extra drivers to get a device working. XP is better with plug and play, but not fully there yet.

Ok. That is true, but I would never state that as a problem using a PC. That also could be an opinion, so for get it.


MS office is deveopled natively for macs, same as IE, and netscape, and at least a half dozen other browsers. Virtual PC isnt needed for these. Sure you can run a PC browser on a mac with virtual PC, but why would you want to? From this statement it is clear you never used a mac to browse the web.

I'm glad you can clear that up. All I hear about is Virtual PC needed to run MS software. Maybe that is old information, but you seem to know what you are talking about. Oh, and I HAVE used a mac to browse the web with IE. That doesn't mean I know that it did or didn't use Virtual PC to get me there. I know what I hear about Macs so I go with that, but I also acknowledge missing iformation that I leave out.



I find dell humorous because of products like a new flat panel my department recieved that was faulty and needed to be replaced. We ended up with a refurb instead of a new one, even though the screen had never been used. Or the stack of PIII 733 optiplexs we have stripped out sitting in a storage room because they are all dead. Yes they have some nice systems, so does gateway, but they also seem to have a higher failure rate than some other systems I have seen. Many people swear by dell, I guess I am hjust not one of them. If i were to use a desktop PC, i would build it, if I were to buy a laptop, it would be an apple powerbook.

So it is an opinion. How am I supposed to understand that? I build my own systems too, I want to choose what I get. Maybe that is one reason why I am turned off to macs. You cannot go out and buy every single part separately (that I have seen) and build a whole system yourself. You have to start with a set package price somewhere.

[CluelessSi]

hmm.. how much is the Powerbooks? is it worth the upgrade from a iBook? is it still relativily light and small cause I want it to be portable that was why i was looking into the slim viaos before.

also where can i get good prices for Apple products and for PC laptops?

one other question.. i am very use to the two button (plus scroll) mouse can that be used on the apple and have the other buttons take over some features (i am using the MS Explorer now)

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
hmm.. how much is the Powerbooks? is it worth the upgrade from a iBook? is it still relativily light and small cause I want it to be portable that was why i was looking into the slim viaos before.

also where can i get good prices for Apple products and for PC laptops?

one other question.. i am very use to the two button (plus scroll) mouse can that be used on the apple and have the other buttons take over some features (i am using the MS Explorer now)

powerbooks are definitely worth the extra money. The processor uses the velocity engine which means a huge performance gain.

full specs can be found here powerbook (http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html)

the sysstem is thinner than the iBook, weighs slightly more (but the screen is way better) The porceessor also has the benifit of 1 MB Level 3 cache.

Remember, the price is more since it features the G4 which means awhole lot more performance. A decent system is $3,199. This is the mid range system on the apple stores powerbook page. It includes

800MHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 & 256K L2 cache
133MHz system bus
512MB SDRAM memory
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500
w/32MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem
1 FireWire & 2 USB Ports
AirPort Card Included

You can get a refurb for 1900 bucks (see link earlier in the post), but its a slower machine. You may also qualify for educational discounts if you are a student.

If you dont want to spend that much cash, wait until july 16th, thats when new products are released at macworld. I have a feeling the laptops wont be affected too much (they just had updates), so I expect to see new powermacs and updated iMacs.

Try looking at www.macmall.com www.macwherehouse.com or www.macconnection.com they often give you free ram upgrades and stuiff like that for the same price that apple charges.

so in short, powerbook = G4 = much faster than iBook = more money

Hope this helps some

[ribitch]

i forgot to answer the mouse question. The MS explorer will plug right in and work. with left right middle and scroll functions. MS has released software for the extra buttons since they are not a standardizes set of buttons

[jase71]

www.macofalltrades.com also often has some good prices on macs...

[eSDee]

A couple of things:

1- ribtich, your Apple link does not work.

2- I just purchased, well my department did, Studio MX for the PC. I have Macromedia Studio for the Mac, the version before MX. I am designing a site for a friend and let me tell you, Studio MX for the PC kicks friggin butt. Something about designing pages is so much easier on a PC that a Mac. However if you are going video, Mac's are better.

3- I have a copy of Windows XP coming to me. Quick question. After you install a software, do you have to restart? On OSX for the Mac, you don't have to.

4- IE has never crashed on me using OSX.

5- Uninstalling software is easier on a PC using Win98 or better than OSX. OS9 on the other hand is simpler than all.

6- OSX is cool, but so are a lot of the apps coming out for Windows XP. After learning either OS, I believe the average user will have comparable experiences with either OS. The stability is there for both, it's just what extra things they want to do with their computer that should dictate which one to buy. In my humble opinion.

7- If you are looking to buy a Mac, find someone who works at a college or school and get an educational discount. Powerbooks are about $300 cheaper and there are specials all the time you can't find online.

And finally,

8- Don't indentify yourself by your computer and OS preference. Whatever helps you get the job done is better for you, but it's still just a stupid computer.


/me runs from the hailstorm of grenades surely to come

[Speedfreak]

Originally posted by EsDeeLoco
I have a copy of Windows XP coming to me. Quick question. After you install a software, do you have to restart? On OSX for the Mac, you don't have to.

Depends. Some do, some don't. Some say you have to, but you really don't, it will still work. I have done that and I have currently been up 35 days while using those programs. No problems.


/me runs from the hailstorm of grenades surely to come

No need. nothing wrong with what you said.

[ribitch]

The apple refurb store is currently out of systems. Might want to check at a later date.

IE has never crashed frequently on OS X for me. Thank god for protected memory. Thats why I try to use other browsers.

For uninstalling software on OS X, you can simply delete the program and its folder and you should be good to go. Most apps are like that, except for M$ and Adobe, and possibly a few others.


7- If you are looking to buy a Mac, find someone who works at a college or school and get an educational discount. Powerbooks are about $300 cheaper and there are specials all the time you can't find online.
Great point! You can also have them join the ADC program to get a larger savings (costs 99.00 to join)

[i6s1]

When you install most windows programs, it spreads files all over the place, and make regestry entries. When you uninstall it, it's supposed to take all these out. Anyone who's ever used Windows knows this isn't always the case.

On a Mac, programs sit in one folder. This makes maintenence a lot easier.

As for Powerbook vs. iBook, I don't think the Powerbook is worth the extra money. But it all depends on what you do. The other thing is that most people have a desktop they can use to do the "heavy" stuff. I need a laptop for far more basic stuff. To each his own.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by i6s1
When you install most windows programs, it spreads files all over the place, and make regestry entries. When you uninstall it, it's supposed to take all these out. Anyone who's ever used Windows knows this isn't always the case.

On a Mac, programs sit in one folder. This makes maintenence a lot easier.

As for Powerbook vs. iBook, I don't think the Powerbook is worth the extra money. But it all depends on what you do. The other thing is that most people have a desktop they can use to do the "heavy" stuff. I need a laptop for far more basic stuff. To each his own.

yup that is true I want my laptop to be more on the lgihter side... best to have built in wireless and other things and be small ... so that is why i am shopping around now =P got till end of summer to decide

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi


yup that is true I want my laptop to be more on the lgihter side... best to have built in wireless and other things and be small ... so that is why i am shopping around now =P got till end of summer to decide

I am confused about this. lighter side. Do you mean weight wise or are you talking about application loads. Intensive appls (like photoshop, maya, lightwave, DVD authoring, viedo edditing, etc) are better run on the powerbook. They can run on an iBook, and they will run ok, but you will be happier doing them on the powerbook.

If you are talking baout weight, they are within a half pound of each other.

with 802.11b, both systems have integrated antenaes, and the cards are installed internally as opposed to using a PCMCIA card.

Both systems are thin. Powerbook is thiner than the iBook. The powerbook is wider though due to the large screen.

Any other needs that need to be addressed? What do you plan on using it for primarily? What would you like it to do?

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch


I am confused about this. lighter side. Do you mean weight wise or are you talking about application loads. Intensive appls (like photoshop, maya, lightwave, DVD authoring, viedo edditing, etc) are better run on the powerbook. They can run on an iBook, and they will run ok, but you will be happier doing them on the powerbook.

If you are talking baout weight, they are within a half pound of each other.

with 802.11b, both systems have integrated antenaes, and the cards are installed internally as opposed to using a PCMCIA card.

Both systems are thin. Powerbook is thiner than the iBook. The powerbook is wider though due to the large screen.

Any other needs that need to be addressed? What do you plan on using it for primarily? What would you like it to do?


o i am not doing heavy video editing so far... i ocasionally do photoshop and flash stuff but usually will do that on my main computer. I am more opt to use it for engineering stuff and computer programming. apps like Matlab and Maple (math programs).. maybe even LabView (not sure if there is a mac version) then i would prolly do c++ and i would very likly secrue telnet into a unix machine to run programs off the server. i guess i will occasionally use it to play games or watch movies. I am debating whether i need a built-in dvd or not =P


right now the powerbook seems pricey for me (college) since i have a desktop... that is why i am wieghing the price vs what i get b/t the ibook and the intel/amd based notebooks...

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi



o i am not doing heavy video editing so far... i ocasionally do photoshop and flash stuff but usually will do that on my main computer. I am more opt to use it for engineering stuff and computer programming. apps like Matlab and Maple (math programs).. maybe even LabView (not sure if there is a mac version) then i would prolly do c++ and i would very likly secrue telnet into a unix machine to run programs off the server. i guess i will occasionally use it to play games or watch movies. I am debating whether i need a built-in dvd or not =P


right now the powerbook seems pricey for me (college) since i have a desktop... that is why i am wieghing the price vs what i get b/t the ibook and the intel/amd based notebooks...

MatLab and Maple benefit from G4. LabView is available as far as I know, but I have only used it on A pc.

Video editting can be done on both machines since all apples have firewire.

They have the option of basic CD-ROM or combo drive. The burner is nice in my opinion, but a firewire burner can also be bought (and later upgraded)

Based on what you have told me, I would go for the 12.1 inch displayed iBook @ 700 MHz. You can save some extra cash by joining apples student developer program for 99.00. This will give you a 1 time hardware discount (about 20-25%) plus monthly mailings of OS updates, developer tools, sample code, and several other things. In fact this month I am supposed to get both CD & DVD format of all information sent. They plan on testing to see if the DVD is a better choice.

try this link for pricing http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ADC?qprm=38839


(copied and pasted)

Powerbook
$1,999.00
667MHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 & 256K L2 cache
133MHz system bus
256MB SDRAM memory
30GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500
w/32MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem
1 FireWire & 2 USB Ports
AirPort Ready

iBook
$1,274.00
12.1-inch TFT XGA display
700MHz PowerPC G3
512K L2 cache @700MHz
System bus @100MHz
128MB SDRAM memory
20GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive
AirPort ready
Up to 5 hr. battery life
Only 4.9 pounds!


These are the current ADC prices. You must be a student and sign up($99) for these discounts.

[eSDee]

nice dead link ribitch :P You can't link to an apple store page because you start a new session everytime you go. It expires after a while.;)

Just wanted to bust your balls a bit. Good job with the recommendation :thumb:

[ribitch]

try this

http://developer.apple.com/students/sthardware.html

then enter at the line that reads

ADC Student Program members in the United States may follow the instructions for the United States Hardware Purchase Program.

that will bring you in the store

[CluelessSi]

what is the difference between laptops with PIII and ones with PIII-m ?
how would the g3 compare with P4?

[LegendKiller]

PIII's have 256k of lvl2 cache, P3m has 512 of higher speed lvl2. P3m's have a 133mhz bus speed.

I would say a mid-line P4 (1.6-7) will beat any mobile chip apple has.


LK

[Jeffbx]

Yeah, the mobile line is pretty cool - it drops the clock speed of the processor during idle time to save power, and then ramps back up to full speed when the CPU is needed.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Jeffbx
Yeah, the mobile line is pretty cool - it drops the clock speed of the processor during idle time to save power, and then ramps back up to full speed when the CPU is needed.

i think all manufacturers mobile chips do that. I know the ibooks do.

( itried staying out of this, but couldnt resist. sorry)

[gear02]

I'm going to ignore all this mac v. pc stuff, but since this is one of the few threads that talks about macs, I'll post my question here.

I'm looking to buy a mac laptop (ibook or TI powerbook). Since macworld is coming out, when should I buy this laptop and how much should I be prepared to spend.

This will be my secondary machine. I want a laptop for portability and stuff, but I will be playing my games on my pc.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02
I'm going to ignore all this mac v. pc stuff, but since this is one of the few threads that talks about macs, I'll post my question here.

I'm looking to buy a mac laptop (ibook or TI powerbook). Since macworld is coming out, when should I buy this laptop and how much should I be prepared to spend.

This will be my secondary machine. I want a laptop for portability and stuff, but I will be playing my games on my pc.

macworld new york was today. The laptops were updated a few months ago, and there werent any new announcements today regarding them.

The apple store is down to allow updates for a new iMac (see deals forum) and iPod changes (see deals forum). The rest of the show consisted on software and OS updates as well as technology that allows syncing of bluetooth cellphones, PDA's, and ipod.

For an iBook, they will max out around 2000.00 for a fully loaded system (may be slightly more, but not much).

A powerbook can easily double that if maxed out.

I would get 256 MB ram, airport(802.11b) minimum on either system. I would pick the smaller display on the iBook (since the larger display isnt worth it in my opinion) @ 700 MHz, or an 800 MHz powerbook.

The next laptop update wont happen for some time. Its rumored that desktops will be updated in august.

[zero2dash]

"A quickie lurker/doesn't post here much" reply from me. ;)

I used to love Macs and hate PCs back when 486s were out and Windows 3.1 vs. System 7 was the buzz. At the time I had just gotten a Compaq Presario 520CDS (I think) which was a 486SX/2 and it had Windows 3.1. A few months later I got accepted around the age of 15 for Commercial Art at a Tech school and immediately sold the PC and got a Mac LC475 for $499 from Mac Mall, plus another $400 or so for shipping plus a 14" Apple monitor because of the (at the time) Graphic Design industry standard of "we only use Macs" so I figured my PC days were over. The LC475 was a decent machine for it's time considering it had 4 megs of RAM (later upgraded to 12), nothing but a 3.5 floppy disk drive (no cd) and a 160 meg hard drive. Filled that thing up quick. ;) I had it all throughout school and at the time when the internet really took off, I didn't have a modem for it so I bought a Sega Saturn NetLink...a 28.8 modem for the Saturn that let you surf the net, use email etc. but didn't buy a Mac modem. A year or two later I wound up buying a PowerMac 701/100 I think off eBay for about $400 and I sold my good 'ol LC475. I bought System 8 for the new PowerMac I had just picked up and it was nice, yes. I also wound up picking up a CD burner and an external HD for the CD burner to use for image data.

About 6 months later I got an eMachine...my first entry into the PC market after a good 6 years of nothing but Mac dominance. Windows 98 in my blood I wound up selling the PowerMac and wound up going through several *ahem* return/eMachines and well fast forward even more time (a few years) and here I am with two PCs, one I put together myself and I'm not looking back. Windows 2000 is the best operating system I've ever used, bar none, period. As a whole it does everything I want it to, it doesn't crash, it works with everything I have or have ever tried on it, and it works perfect for me.

My biggest gripe with Macs, period - is price and what you get for your money. Nowadays it's much better than it used to be but I remember a time when an external 4X Mac CD READER (NOT a burner) was $300. Ludicrous. You get more with Macs now than you ever have but you still pay a good 1.5x if not more than you will for a PC. I work on Macs and PCs at work EVERY DAY. I am a Graphic Designer at Kinkos. We have many PCs running Win2k (just like I do at home) and a couple dual-processor G4 towers running OS 9.1. Now before I hear "OSX this", I've only seen it once and it was nice but I don't see the big hoopla behind it. IN A NUTSHELL I've always known Mac System/OS to be stable and I'm not disputing that here because it is. We rarely ever have to restart the G4 towers we have. However we also rarely ever restart the Win2k boxes we have either (and they're Dell GX110 systems...bleh I hate them).

The Mac "Switch" commercials are TRUTHFUL yet OUTDATED. These people piss me off with all the "blue screen of death" and "my PC ran my life" crap. Please...give me a break. What are they, running Windows 95? Is this REALLY an option these days? Ppft. And "taking over your life" ie not working? See above. If you're too piss poor dull not to upgrade Windows 95 or even Windows 98 to AT LEAST 98SE or even better yet, 2k or (bleh) XP...please, get off the TV. Macs do work as good as PCs; please, put the people who DON'T believe this on TV after they are quickly strung up to be drawn and quartered for being dumb. Also worth mentioning...I heard from a friend of mine that he had read somewhere online that those people had been paid off by Steve Jobs and that this information leaked...somewhere. Do I believe it? Yes, of course. The PC (ie "Personal Computer") market (not the Windows market by itself) is a disgusting filthy business of outsmarting and out-antagonizing your competition. Do I believe that Bill Gates puts a pretty penny in people's pockets occasionally? Hell yeah. But I see so many of these Mac commercials and want to take a shotgun to my TV with these ingrates. I'd be willing to bet that those people are also too frickin retarded to figure out how to troubleshoot computers considering the BSOD garbage.

...

Anyhow, a month and a half ago I almost bought a Fisher Price book off eBay. I came REAL close. Then the auctions went to market values (over $800 for an iBook Graphite 466SE the only one I'd consider purchasing because of the processor speed) and it was way more than I thought the thing would be worth, honestly. I like Macs, I have no problem with Macs. If Macs cost the same as PCs and hardware upgrades costed the same and the same software was available at the same time across both platforms...well I'd still own a PC. :P (figured I'd throw a twist in there) I hate the hockey puck mice that we have at work...I know they have the new clear mice but I hate those as well. Pushing the whole mouse down to click? Grr...when you use Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop daily and clicking is YOUR LIFE, having to click down and pick the thing up when you move out of desk space is by far, hair-ripping NO FUN. And I HATE Mac keyboards. Especially the old ones with the fruity stupid arrow key layout. GRANTED both problems CAN BE REMEDIED by purchasing other keyboards and mice...but again, given the choice, I will always stick with PCs myself personally.

In this day and age, Macs and PCs are so close in terms of "power in your applications" that it's futile to even compare them anymore. I see no difference between PageMaker 6.5 on a PC and PageMaker 6.5 on a Mac. Or Photoshop 6 on a PC and on a Mac. Or Illustrator 9 on both. I read all this jibberish about Photoshop filters running better on the Mac side and well I don't dispute it but I haven't seen it and I don't see how a few seconds is going to cut you that much slack or give you an award and besides that I rarely ever use Photoshop filters anyway, neither do my fellow co-workers and neither does anyone else I know in the Graphic Design field. Sure, people that make cutesy desktop pictures of models and-whatever-else like to use the cutesy blur filters, lens flares stuff like that which may run a few seconds faster on a Mac but I think pound for pound in pure general program knowhow (like Office) you're not going to notice a difference between the two other than the look of the OS and the keyboard shortcuts...some using fruit (open apple key) and some using control or alt. :D

[gear02]

Good post zero2dash.

I honestly think the big difference between macs and pcs now is the OS. I guess people tend to favor OSX or XP.

I am a PC person. I build my own computers and swap parts. I doubt I'll ever have a mac for my primary rig. I'm thinking of getting an ibook because I feel like mac laptops are better made than any PC laptop on the market. They are light, durable, and very nice looking. Meanwhile, Sony's light laptops break more than toothpicks and Dell's durable laptops are heavy and ugly.

Besides, I want to play with OSX and have a Ipod (I'm not trusting the PC compatable ipods).

Oh and those Apple switch ads are stupid, annoying, outdated, and insulting. The people on those ads are fools and stupid. "Waa waa I can't use a mouse because it doesn't fit up my ass...waaaaa"

Speaking of mouse, I'm planning on getting a two button mouse for my imac. Stupid apple people can't realize a one button mouse is stupid.

[spigidygak]

Originally posted by ribitch


macworld new york was today. The laptops were updated a few months ago, and there werent any new announcements today regarding them.

The apple store is down to allow updates for a new iMac (see deals forum) and iPod changes (see deals forum). The rest of the show consisted on software and OS updates as well as technology that allows syncing of bluetooth cellphones, PDA's, and ipod.

For an iBook, they will max out around 2000.00 for a fully loaded system (may be slightly more, but not much).

A powerbook can easily double that if maxed out.

I would get 256 MB ram, airport(802.11b) minimum on either system. I would pick the smaller display on the iBook (since the larger display isnt worth it in my opinion) @ 700 MHz, or an 800 MHz powerbook.

The next laptop update wont happen for some time. Its rumored that desktops will be updated in august.

I would wait for a few more days. Supposedly Apple has some updates for both laptops. But just rumors I hear. Won't hurt to wait a few days however.

[gear02]

Yeah, i figure i'd wait until OSX 1.2 is standard on the ibooks.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by spigidygak


I would wait for a few more days. Supposedly Apple has some updates for both laptops. But just rumors I hear. Won't hurt to wait a few days however.

those rumors will more than likely not happen until a desktop update is released. The iBook just had a update to support quartz extreeme, and the powerbook just recieved the DVI update.

10.2 is worth the wait. I have been using the first beta release (from WWDC) and its fast. The latest builds are even faster. If you buy now, you ar eentitled to a free upgrade plus shipping & handling (19.99). If you are a student, join adc for 99.00 get a 20-25% discount on the system and wait for 10.2 to be mailed to you.

At macworld, apple showed its sense of humor on the switch ads. They had will ferrell comparing a computer to a parfait. It was pretty funny. At the end he said "I'm will Ferrell, porn star" I would love to get a copy of that.

I do agree that the ads are pretty lame. Somewhat outdated (but most people shopping for a new system are on win 9x, not XP or 2k. So a BSOD is a valid reference point for them), and the people are embarassing. Yet they are doing what they were designed to do. get peoples attention, make them listen, and get apple in their head. They have even been efffective at luring people into apple stores and boosting apples public awareness.

Annoying, yes. Stupid people, yes. effectivce, yes.

[gear02]

Originally posted by ribitch

If you are a student, join adc for 99.00 get a 20-25% discount on the system and wait for 10.2 to be mailed to you.

Annoying, yes. Stupid people, yes. effectivce, yes.

What's ADC? The 20% off thing really appeals to me =)

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02


What's ADC? The 20% off thing really appeals to me =)

if you are a college student (sorry, only college students) you may sign up for a 99.00 membership to Apple Developer Connection. The 99.00 gives you a one time hardware discount (see link earlier in the thread by me). The 99.00 makes up for itself in the actual system discount as well as the software and resource CD's that are sent to you monthly. They started shipping both CD & DVD developer resources last month. The resources include tutorials, sample code, sample programs, trial programs, white papers and much much more.

If you're not a student, you can still sign up for ADC, but the price is much more.

[gear02]

So other than getting my brother to buy one for me (I graduated last month), where can I get ibooks cheaper?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02
So other than getting my brother to buy one for me (I graduated last month), where can I get ibooks cheaper?

graduate from college? Or H.S.? If H.S., then sign up for ADC. If college, sign up in his name and pay with you check or credit card.

other then that, all prices will be about the same. some places may give you free ram with an install fee or a free POS printer

[gear02]

thanks ribitch

do you know if they'll put jaguar on the newer ibooks or will they require new purchasers to buy the upgrade?

[Cantacuzene]

Being that I jumped into this thread way late let me sum up people's points by making an objective opinionated response...

The difference in preformance per dollar is miniscule. The difference in preformance of programs on both platforms is insignificant.

2k, XP and OSX are all extremely stable and unless you are an old person or an idiot they are user friendly enough for anyone to learn.

The difference is basically in 2 areas. First, the pc has configurable hardware. While this creates occasional conflicts and driver issues, the benefit overweighs that by far. Swapping out a Ge-force 2 and putting in a Ge-force 4 rather than buying a new system far outweighs any minor problems. Not everyone cares about that, and thats fine. Not every person in the world is comfortable handling their own hardware stuff so this isnt an issue for everyone. I still contend that this is the #1 reason why people buy pc's over Macs. If a Mac owner could walk into Best Buy, pick up a GeForce4 or Audigy Platinum and pop it into his Mac a LOT more people would buy Macs. I kinda rambled here so I hope that made sense...

Second difference is the software available. MS office and Photoshop are both the best choices in their genre and are available for both platforms and both work almost equally well on each. For the average person, the "i"programs you get on a MAc are good enough so they never need to buy more software. The average person will also be happy with the software in XP. iTunes is far superior to Windows media player etc, but Media Player is good enough for 90% of users. 3rd party software is the biggest difference. I'm not a Macphile and maybe you would know better, but teh programs I use most on my comp are, Winamp, Mirc and AIM. I know AIm is available on Mac but are the others? I use tons of freeware and shareware that I'm fairly sure that you cant get on a Mac. Now, that may not be a huge deal for people that dont use their computer for much, but not using some of those programs would kill my "user experience." Maybe their is a whole Mac side of the internet I've never stumbled across but I dont see the 3rd part software makers lining up to produce for the Mac.

One minor point, someone said earlier, "Why buy a 2000$ pc to play games when you can buy a an xbox or ps2 for $200 and its better?" Can an Xbox or PS2 run MSoffice, Photoshop, download mp3, watch divx, burn a dvd, chat over a messaging service AND run the newest games? No, they cant. Thats why a computer costs more, you get way more out of it. Also, I'd have a hard time saying that the Xbox or PS2 run games "better" than a pc. A p4 1.6 with a gf4 and 512 megs of ram will run games prettier than an xbox and a p3 700 with 256 and a gf2 ultra can outpreform a PS2. The same person also said, "the 20 top pc games are coming out for the mac." Just because you can play the Sims 3 years after the pc could and you got WC3 at the same time does not suddenly make the Mac a gaming platform. Will Mac have Doom 3? Prolly not. Its ridiculous that you even hinted at the Mac being the game machine a PC is, dont even try to argue that point.

In closing, PC's and Macs are roughly equal in all areas except gaming. Whether you buy a PC or a Mac is up to your personal preferences, you really arent losing out on anything with either. Gaming is the only exception, and for some its the only issue while others its a non-issue. All in all, both are good deals for your money and both are good platforms so buy whatever you prefer. If you like Macs buy a Mac ans vice versa. If you like PCs DONT buy a MAc and vice versa. Thats my piece.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
Being that I jumped into this thread way late let me sum up people's points by making an objective opinionated response...

The difference in preformance per dollar is miniscule. The difference in preformance of programs on both platforms is insignificant.

2k, XP and OSX are all extremely stable and unless you are an old person or an idiot they are user friendly enough for anyone to learn.


all true


The difference is basically in 2 areas. First, the pc has configurable hardware. While this creates occasional conflicts and driver issues, the benefit overweighs that by far. Swapping out a Ge-force 2 and putting in a Ge-force 4 rather than buying a new system far outweighs any minor problems. Not everyone cares about that, and thats fine. Not every person in the world is comfortable handling their own hardware stuff so this isnt an issue for everyone. I still contend that this is the #1 reason why people buy pc's over Macs. If a Mac owner could walk into Best Buy, pick up a GeForce4 or Audigy Platinum and pop it into his Mac a LOT more people would buy Macs. I kinda rambled here so I hope that made sense...

You may not be able to get a mac video card upgrade at bestbuy, but compusa, microcenter, and many smaller stores that carry apple sell them. Video card upgrades for apples do exist. You can get a creative labvs soundcard upgrade for an apple as well. But guess what, they dont sell, because the onboard audio is better. If you need better audio than the stock audio, you purchase a pro level card. Remember, apples are designed with sound engineers in mind.


Second difference is the software available. MS office and Photoshop are both the best choices in their genre and are available for both platforms and both work almost equally well on each. For the average person, the "i"programs you get on a MAc are good enough so they never need to buy more software. The average person will also be happy with the software in XP. iTunes is far superior to Windows media player etc, but Media Player is good enough for 90% of users. 3rd party software is the biggest difference. I'm not a Macphile and maybe you would know better, but teh programs I use most on my comp are, Winamp, Mirc and AIM. I know AIm is available on Mac but are the others? I use tons of freeware and shareware that I'm fairly sure that you cant get on a Mac. Now, that may not be a huge deal for people that dont use their computer for much, but not using some of those programs would kill my "user experience." Maybe their is a whole Mac side of the internet I've never stumbled across but I dont see the 3rd part software makers lining up to produce for the Mac.
iApps are great apps, and blow most similar apps out of the water. Yes winamp i sout there for mac, and its ok. Macamp, a copy of winamp, is also available. Both apps are nowhere near the quality of iTunes. Shareware is another issue. Sure, a PC has more programs in general, but how many of these are good programs? Or duplicates of another program? That brings the playing field closer. I use many shareware programs on my mac. You can get anything from an IRC client, to a windows explorer style filesystem viewer. When it comes to shareware, the two platforms are closer than many would think. GAMES is where apple falls short, and apple is working with many developers and turning this around.



One minor point, someone said earlier, "Why buy a 2000$ pc to play games when you can buy a an xbox or ps2 for $200 and its better?" Can an Xbox or PS2 run MSoffice, Photoshop, download mp3, watch divx, burn a dvd, chat over a messaging service AND run the newest games? No, they cant. Thats why a computer costs more, you get way more out of it. Also, I'd have a hard time saying that the Xbox or PS2 run games "better" than a pc. A p4 1.6 with a gf4 and 512 megs of ram will run games prettier than an xbox and a p3 700 with 256 and a gf2 ultra can outpreform a PS2. The same person also said, "the 20 top pc games are coming out for the mac." Just because you can play the Sims 3 years after the pc could and you got WC3 at the same time does not suddenly make the Mac a gaming platform. Will Mac have Doom 3? Prolly not. Its ridiculous that you even hinted at the Mac being the game machine a PC is, dont even try to argue that point.
Is mac trying to catch up with the gaming crowd? Yes. Is the mac a gaming platform yet? no. Doom III (http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=1330) Old news. Rumored to be at the same release date as well.



In closing, PC's and Macs are roughly equal in all areas except gaming. Whether you buy a PC or a Mac is up to your personal preferences, you really arent losing out on anything with either. Gaming is the only exception, and for some its the only issue while others its a non-issue. All in all, both are good deals for your money and both are good platforms so buy whatever you prefer. If you like Macs buy a Mac ans vice versa. If you like PCs DONT buy a MAc and vice versa. Thats my piece. [/B]

I agree, they are equal in many ways, and gaming the PC is superior. However, if you like a PC, its ok to try a mac. If you like mac, its ok to try a PC. Its ok to have knowledge on how to use both platforms

[zero2dash]

Originally posted by ribitch
However, if you like a PC, its ok to try a mac. If you like mac, its ok to try a PC. Its ok to have knowledge on how to use both platforms

THIS is an ad campaign that I would DEFINITELY applaud instead of this "your machine sucks ours doesn't" crap that the majority of rivals use these days.

<applauds> :D

[gear02]

Originally posted by zero2dash


THIS is an ad campaign that I would DEFINITELY applaud instead of this "your machine sucks ours doesn't" crap that the majority of rivals use these days.

<applauds> :D

Yeah no kidding...I keep finding myself shouting "that's because you're a whore" during those switch commercials. Hopefully I don't see one of those in a public place...

[eSDee]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene

In closing, PC's and Macs are roughly equal in all areas except gaming. Whether you buy a PC or a Mac is up to your personal preferences, you really arent losing out on anything with either. Gaming is the only exception, and for some its the only issue while others its a non-issue. All in all, both are good deals for your money and both are good platforms so buy whatever you prefer. If you like Macs buy a Mac ans vice versa. If you like PCs DONT buy a MAc and vice versa. Thats my piece.

You forgot a couple of things. First off, the Mac kicks a PC's arse when it comes to video editing. Premiere is crappy and klunky compared to Final Cut Pro 3. Sure it's a few hundred dollars cheaper, but up until Premiere 6 you needed a capture card to import the video. FCP3 always used firewire.

Secondly, DVD-burners are still too expensive for the PC. They come standard with the new 17 inch iMac and alot of the G4 desktops. What I'm really pointing out here is the innovation. Flatscreens and DVD Burners are standard with the new iMacs. That's pretty damn cool in my opinion.

I am a fan of both platforms, so I mostly see the good on both sides. I loves my powerbook because it kicks major butt, but I loves me some PC because I can build a dope arse system for cheap. Or I can build a decent computer for my little cousins, for around $500.

Pick your poison, I say.

[zero2dash]

Originally posted by EsDeeLoco
[i]Secondly, DVD-burners are still too expensive for the PC. They come standard with the new 17 inch iMac and alot of the G4 desktops. What I'm really pointing out here is the innovation. Flatscreens and DVD Burners are standard with the new iMacs. That's pretty damn cool in my opinion.

:stupid:

Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

You're paying over $2200 for that G4 plus DVD burner.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/42/wo/hfNKR0uPpx9HfkYh91/1.3.0.3.34.21.1.1.19.3.1.1.0?38,8

That's a base config model with the Apple SuperDrive. (DVD-R+CDR/RW)

In contrast you could purchase a phat PC system (through Dell, since in all fairness we all know that you can't barebones build Macs like you can PCs so we'll use arguably the #1 PC hardware seller on the planet) for arguably half that (give or take) and add the DVD burner for $350 or so if you're not using the cheap-o HP one that only burns to DVD-RW.

(Considering the PC system prices at this point in time) You're still saving $500 plus buying a PC and you're getting competitive hardware. :thumb:

'nuff said. Macs are more expensive for no reason other than they are Macs. Period. Apple bought out the clone parties that WERE selling decent Mac clones and now there ARE no Mac clones on the market (that I know of). People can claim Microsoft to be a monopoly on OS's but (again) let's call a spade a spade. Apple is greedy and full of their own stuff for eliminating all competition so they can rip off people and get away with it.

I'll never discredit Macs for being good systems because they ARE. However even the notion that Macs cost the same as a PC is a load of crap. You're paying MORE for a Mac that does the same as a less-costly Windows setup. As for your LCD screens, again you're paying a couple hundred dollars MORE for a Mac with an LCD screen than you will by buying a PC and opting for an LCD screen. :P

[hapoo]

Apple just knows how to package its sh*t. You end up paying a premium for it, but it comes with a nice bow of features around it. Personally i'd rather have more control over what i buy, but thats just me.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by zero2dash


:stupid:

Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

You're paying over $2200 for that G4 plus DVD burner.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/42/wo/hfNKR0uPpx9HfkYh91/1.3.0.3.34.21.1.1.19.3.1.1.0?38,8

That's a base config model with the Apple SuperDrive. (DVD-R+CDR/RW)

Try 1799.00 Thats the 800 MHz 15" LCD iMac. You can also order an eMac from a third party vendor with the superdrive installed for cheaper. You're link isnt working, but I assume you were going for a G4 Tower. Yes, they are more expensive, but not the cheapest option for a video/dvd editting worlstation with LCD.




In contrast you could purchase a phat PC system (through Dell, since in all fairness we all know that you can't barebones build Macs like you can PCs so we'll use arguably the #1 PC hardware seller on the planet) for arguably half that (give or take) and add the DVD burner for $350 or so if you're not using the cheap-o HP one that only burns to DVD-RW.

(Considering the PC system prices at this point in time) You're still saving $500 plus buying a PC and you're getting competitive hardware. :thumb:

Lets se some prices. Did you add DVD authoring software? Doubt it. Its std on macs, not a 50.00 upgrade like Dell has. How about an Office style App? Apple works 6 comes with the iMac. What about HD sizes, or an LCD display? When I priced the dell, the price was still about 200 more than the apple.



'nuff said. Macs are more expensive for no reason other than they are Macs. Period. Apple bought out the clone parties that WERE selling decent Mac clones and now there ARE no Mac clones on the market (that I know of). People can claim Microsoft to be a monopoly on OS's but (again) let's call a spade a spade. Apple is greedy and full of their own stuff for eliminating all competition so they can rip off people and get away with it.

The reason mac clones are not available is steve jobs weeded out the poorly built systems to improve machine stability. Clones were casuing the OS to crash more frequesntly and people complained saying the OS was crap. Remove the clones, and teh OS was once again rock solid.

Are macs expensive? Upfront, yes. Long term, no. I wont get into life and resell value. What about the iBooks though? You can buy one for much less than a Dell that is comprable in size, weight, and features. Or the iMac? Priced almost equal with a dell with the same features. The PowerMac is a workstation. Its primaryily professionals,,with some consumers also buying them. A dual GHZ powermac makes one hell of a DVD/DV editting station. One benchmark that is often left out of comparisons between PC and Mac is DVD encoding. Or realtime DV editting/encoding. Macs will encode a trransition dropped into a video clip sequence and play it back realtime. Correct me if i'm wrong, but PC's can do that yet. Close, but not realtime.


I'll never discredit Macs for being good systems because they ARE. However even the notion that Macs cost the same as a PC is a load of crap. You're paying MORE for a Mac that does the same as a less-costly Windows setup. As for your LCD screens, again you're paying a couple hundred dollars MORE for a Mac with an LCD screen than you will by buying a PC and opting for an LCD screen. :P
Again, check your dell prices on the LCD P4 vs iMac ($1799). They are very closely priced. A mac can cost the same amount as a PC for a consumer oriented system. A mac workstation is where the larger prices come in. A PC workstation is also much more expensive. Its all about the target audience. Dell doesnt advertise their workstations to the general public. Apple however does since many of its customers use some of its full potential in a hime enviroment.

[gear02]

btw Ribitch, I've been comparing prices all over the place, and ADC is not the most cheap.

700Mhz G3
12.1 inch TFT
256MB SDRAM
20GB HD
DVD/CD-RW

Apple.com (normal) + tax: $1644.83
ADC Purchace + tax + membership: $1502.71
Education Discount + tax: $1590.49
Amazon (Only 128MB Ram): $1394.00
MacConnection + shipping: $1528.20
MacZone + shipping: $1567.42
Macmall + shipping: $1573.10

So I'm probably going to buy from MacConnection since I'm not really a student and Amazon is only 128MB.

Couple of questions for you.

1. Any difference from buying from apple direct and MacConnection?
2. How much RAM is sufficient?
3. Will Apple put 10.2 standard on ibooks or will they make people buy it seperately?
4. Anything else to help me buy an ibook?

Thanks!

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02
btw Ribitch, I've been comparing prices all over the place, and ADC is not the most cheap.

700Mhz G3
12.1 inch TFT
256MB SDRAM
20GB HD
DVD/CD-RW

Apple.com (normal) + tax: $1644.83
ADC Purchace + tax + membership: $1502.71
Education Discount + tax: $1590.49
Amazon (Only 128MB Ram): $1394.00
MacConnection + shipping: $1528.20
MacZone + shipping: $1567.42
Macmall + shipping: $1573.10

So I'm probably going to buy from MacConnection since I'm not really a student and Amazon is only 128MB.

Couple of questions for you.

1. Any difference from buying from apple direct and MacConnection?
2. How much RAM is sufficient?
3. Will Apple put 10.2 standard on ibooks or will they make people buy it seperately?
4. Anything else to help me buy an ibook?

Thanks!

Wow, I never looked at amazons pricing. Now i see why the sell so many apples.

ADC entitles you to free OS updates. This has allowed me to get every update for OS 9 & X on CD, and several full edition(non upgrade CD's) CD. Heres your answers

1 - not really. However, see #3

2 - 128 bare minimum. 256 Recommended. More the merrier as with any OS. I run 512 in my iMac, eventually will be a full GB. Also depends on what you plan on doing. Graphics and video require more for optimal settings. Word, internet, email, light video/photo can get by with 128-256

3 - 10.2 will be the shipping OS when its released. All nonapple vendor will not ship it immediately since they will havve back stock of prior editions. They may allow for a free upgrade or something similar. Apple gave away free 10.1 CD's when it was released. It was cracked right away to covert it to a full install CD. Apple wisened up on this, and will more than likely not offer a free upgrade, but the 19.99 s&H for a full install/upgrade CD.

4 - I dont understand the question? Other things to persuade you, or just general helpful info?

[gear02]

yeah...any general info...like is the airport cool, required software (office x)

[zero2dash]

Originally posted by ribitch
The reason mac clones are not available is steve jobs weeded out the poorly built systems to improve machine stability. Clones were casuing the OS to crash more frequesntly and people complained saying the OS was crap. Remove the clones, and teh OS was once again rock solid.

I completely disagree. The reason (from my understanding) that clones were taken out by Apple is because ONE of them was starting to pick up steam and even caught up in sales with Apple's Macs. PowerComputing. Hell I remember back in the day, *I* was planning on picking up a PowerComputing Mac clone and then when I had the money, they were AWOL and never seen again. Why? Apple took them out TO GET THEIR SALES BACK AND CONTINUE CHARGING WHAT THEY DO which is too frickin' much for their computers. IMO. The other Mac clones (from what I heard back when they were available) were all pretty much crap. (the SuperMacs and the UMAX Macs)

You can argue all you want about extra bundle software; just because Windows based PC's come with Wordpad vs Macs coming with Apple Works doesn't mean anything to me considering MOST people who actually use word processing programs use the standard defacto ones like Word, which isn't bundled in on Windows based PC's OR Macs. As for the video editing and whatnot, I know nothing about video editing, I don't do it myself and I have no experience therefore my comments would be null and void on the vid edit category. ;)

The main argument I'm trying to make here (and it IS a duly noted one as well IMO and one that no one in their right mind can disagree with) is that Macs cost more. Period. For the hardware you GET, you pay MORE in buying a Macintosh. If Macs were $500 less across the BOARD, don't you think they'd probably catch up in sales with PCs? Probably. I think most people who have used Macs don't have a problem with them, hardware system-wise or operating system-wise but the main reason that they sell to a niche is because of their prices. Period.


Are macs expensive? Upfront, yes. Long term, no. I wont get into life and resell value. What about the iBooks though? You can buy one for much less than a Dell that is comprable in size, weight, and features. Or the iMac? Priced almost equal with a dell with the same features. The PowerMac is a workstation. Its primaryily professionals,,with some consumers also buying them. A dual GHZ powermac makes one hell of a DVD/DV editting station. One benchmark that is often left out of comparisons between PC and Mac is DVD encoding. Or realtime DV editting/encoding. Macs will encode a trransition dropped into a video clip sequence and play it back realtime. Correct me if i'm wrong, but PC's can do that yet. Close, but not realtime.

I've never bought PCs with the intention of selling them off later. If it happens, it happens. But it's not planned. I don't "lease" computers which is generally what it is if you buy a PC and sell it a year later to get "the new model". Barf all over that; sorry but that's like these yuppies who sell cars after a year or less of buying them just to be seen in "the next model" or something. As for the iBooks thing, that's about the only place I agree that you get better performance in what you pay for in contrast to a Windows-based laptop (and is the reason I almost picked up a used iBook awhile ago like I mentioned in my original post). However you're still paying a lot for that performance. I work with someone who paid over $3 g's for one of the PowerBook models and I admit, his computer is a sexy shiny piece of work. But it was also OVER THREE GRAND. Would I pay that much for a computer? Hell no. I'd love to have that computer, but would I part with that amount of money *to* have it? Sorry, um no. A little problem that *I* (along with most other people) have called budgeting on "I'm-not-a-rich-guy" salary. :D The iMacs are still base $1300 (according to Apple's site) and you can pick up a powerhouse P4 Dell for under a grand. I mean jeez we come to a deals site here, most of us know the cheap prices you can get from Dell. :P If you decide to add an LCD that's your choice (the buyer's) but I'd rather have the option then get charged for it and NOT have a choice. After buying my Dell Trinitron PerfectFlat 21" monitor a few months back for $300 instead of a $700 17" Planar LCD I am very VERY glad I didn't waste my money on the LCD especially considering their flaws for 3d gaming. (Most of that is fixed now but you'll still pay more for an LCD of course.)


Again, check your dell prices on the LCD P4 vs iMac ($1799). They are very closely priced. A mac can cost the same amount as a PC for a consumer oriented system. A mac workstation is where the larger prices come in. A PC workstation is also much more expensive. Its all about the target audience. Dell doesnt advertise their workstations to the general public. Apple however does since many of its customers use some of its full potential in a hime enviroment.

The price thing, see above for the general systems and what I think. As for workstations, well most PC users build their own workstations (ie towers) so they pay LESS than what companies like Dell sell them for.

I think you can arguably bring up two groups of computer users here...group 1 is the AOL crowd which doesn't know how to add RAM to a machine, therefore they buy iMacs and Dell desktops (stood sideways to look like towers) that are already made that they don't/won't have to mess with/upgrade themselves; group 2 is the power user who installs drives, upgrades cpu etc. therefore they buy the "expansion oriented" setup like towers (G4 and PC based).

However of course you can easily build PCs by buying wholesale parts meanwhile in the Mac world you can't (to my knowledge) therefore group 2 is more akin to BUILDING their own tower instead of paying 3x the "build/parts" fee to pay someone else to build it for them.

[ribitch]

as far as other things you will need,, there isnt much.

Office X is nice, but isnt really needed. AppleWorks is included (ClarisWorks). I personally use the terminal and a text editor for most plantext or HTML documents. I use Office only for class. If you decide to get Office, have someone you know thats a college student buy it. Its much cheaper. MS overcharges for the retail version and wonders why it doesnt sell like they want it to.

i find limewire is a great instant purchase program. Simply search for dmg, img or sit. many apple apps for sale :D

extra batteries or chargers arent needed. You will get plenty of battery time out of the included battery. much more than a pc laptop. My gf likes a laptop bag, while i just preferred to through it into my backpack. She got a free one by complaining to apple about how long it took her to get hers (she bought it when it was updated, and the top of the line one that she wanted was backordered. She wasnt expecting to get the newer model. She was pleased in the end. not only did she get a faster more well equipped model, there was a price cut and she also got a free bag).

one app worth downloading in MOX. search for MOX at www.versiontracker.com/macosx It will allow you to tweal the OS easily. Great freeware app.

almost forgot the airport. Read the reviews. Apple has had 802.11b support for over 2 years now, and is still the easiest to setup and get online. Its well worth the money. I love having it.

get the card from appel and get the access point through a deal. The apple AP costs 300.00 with an internal router. iuts a great piece of hardware, but you can get one cheaper elsewhere.

as a side note, appleworks can read and write office documents. I dont kn ow how it handles the advanced features of office, but it has support for up to office XP. I dont use the app though, so i cannot elaborate on the details.

[i6s1]

For the price comparison: (Note, this is with XP-pro. With Home, the price would be the same as the Apple)


Dell Dimension 8200 Series
Dimension® 8200 Series, Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.0 GHz

Qty: 1
Price: $2,097.00

Dell Dimension 8200 Series: Dimension® 8200 Series, Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.0 GHz
Memory: FREE Upgrade! 256MB PC800 RDRAM
Keyboard: Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard
Monitors: 17 in (17.0 in viewable)
Display 1702FP [320-4156]
Video Card: New 64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4™ MX Graphics Card with TV-Out
Hard Drive: FREE Upgrade! 80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive
Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Mouse: MS IntelliMouse® IM Network Card: 10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
Modem: 56K Telephony Modem for Windows® XP
CD or DVD Drive: DVD+RW/CD-RW Combo Drive with 1 DVD+RW disc
Sound Card: SB Live! Digital Sound Card SB1024
Speakers: Harman Kardon HK-395 Speakers with Subwoofer HK395
Bundled Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 w/Money Standard
Virus Protection: Norton Antivirus® 2002, 90-day introductory
Digital Music: Dell Jukebox powered by MusicMatch
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 1 Year Limited
Internet Access Service: 6 Months of America Online Membership

[ribitch]

Originally posted by i6s1
For the price comparison: (Note, this is with XP-pro. With Home, the price would be the same as the Apple)


Dell Dimension 8200 Series
Dimension® 8200 Series, Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.0 GHz

Qty: 1
Price: $2,097.00

Dell Dimension 8200 Series: Dimension® 8200 Series, Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.0 GHz
Memory: FREE Upgrade! 256MB PC800 RDRAM
Keyboard: Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard
Monitors: 17 in (17.0 in viewable)
Display 1702FP [320-4156]
Video Card: New 64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4™ MX Graphics Card with TV-Out
Hard Drive: FREE Upgrade! 80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive
Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Mouse: MS IntelliMouse® IM Network Card: 10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
Modem: 56K Telephony Modem for Windows® XP
CD or DVD Drive: DVD+RW/CD-RW Combo Drive with 1 DVD+RW disc
Sound Card: SB Live! Digital Sound Card SB1024
Speakers: Harman Kardon HK-395 Speakers with Subwoofer HK395
Bundled Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 w/Money Standard
Virus Protection: Norton Antivirus® 2002, 90-day introductory
Digital Music: Dell Jukebox powered by MusicMatch
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 1 Year Limited
Internet Access Service: 6 Months of America Online Membership

its kind of hard to author a dvd without the required software. besides that a fair close price.

[gear02]

Let's just drop this "PCs have more value than Apple" debate. It really makes no sense. If you want to make the Dell v. Apple debate, I'll make the Dell v. build your own computer debate. Doesn't matter.

It's all a matter of preference, not about which is better than your mom or whatever. This same debate comes up with consoles (PS2 v. XBox v. GCN v. PC).

I'm a PC person, period. I've built my own computer (Abit KR7A, Athlon 1400, 512MB PC2100 DDR, Pioneer Slot DVD, Plextor 12x10x32, GeForce 4 TI4400, 250 GB HD (80, 80, 20, 40, 30), Evercase E4252, Sound Blaster Live 5.1 Platinum, WinXP Pro) so I know all about PCs.

However, I think Macs are pretty cool, especially their laptops. They're small, thin, relatively powerful, and well built. You really can't say the same for any other laptop. OSX is a refreshing change from windows.

There should be no discussion about dumb people leaning towards macs, etc. like those damn switch ads imply. It's simply a matter of preference.

[gear02]

Quick question about Mac and PC compatability.

Say I have an ibook and a Mac Ipod. All my MP3s are on my PC machine, on an NTFS formatted drive. How would I get my MP3s on the ipod without permanently moving all my mp3s to the Mac? Could I go the other way, meaning I want to move files from the ipod to the PC?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02
Let's just drop this "PCs have more value than Apple" debate. It really makes no sense. If you want to make the Dell v. Apple debate, I'll make the Dell v. build your own computer debate. Doesn't matter.

It's all a matter of preference, not about which is better than your mom or whatever. This same debate comes up with consoles (PS2 v. XBox v. GCN v. PC).

I'm a PC person, period. I've built my own computer (Abit KR7A, Athlon 1400, 512MB PC2100 DDR, Pioneer Slot DVD, Plextor 12x10x32, GeForce 4 TI4400, 250 GB HD (80, 80, 20, 40, 30), Evercase E4252, Sound Blaster Live 5.1 Platinum, WinXP Pro) so I know all about PCs.

However, I think Macs are pretty cool, especially their laptops. They're small, thin, relatively powerful, and well built. You really can't say the same for any other laptop. OSX is a refreshing change from windows.

There should be no discussion about dumb people leaning towards macs, etc. like those damn switch ads imply. It's simply a matter of preference.

very very well said.

Hey, I use oth platforms too. I just simply sold my pc in favor of a mac. I still use a pc daily, and will eventualy buy another when i can afford one.

[CluelessSi]

I am wondering about buying a fujitsu S series or the iBook, anyone know the difference in speed bt say the g3 700 and the 1ghx p3? What I am looking for is a good price for a good speed (of course) also the reason I picked those two is because I want Wire/Wireless and also to be thin and light, and good battery life. I al looking at the 12-13 inch screens because anything bigger it is not worth it. I will prolly play some games on it so a good video card is needed. i am not sure how the vid card compares in the ibook vs the one found in the fujitsu. and which laptop is more durable to physical damage and weather conditions, what do you guys think. As far as OS goes I am fine now with either Mac OSX or XP so i am more into the power of the machine vs, size and price. Thanks,

[i6s1]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
I am wondering about buying a fujitsu S series or the iBook, anyone know the difference in speed bt say the g3 700 and the 1ghx p3? What I am looking for is a good price for a good speed (of course) also the reason I picked those two is because I want Wire/Wireless and also to be thin and light, and good battery life. I al looking at the 12-13 inch screens because anything bigger it is not worth it. I will prolly play some games on it so a good video card is needed. i am not sure how the vid card compares in the ibook vs the one found in the fujitsu. and which laptop is more durable to physical damage and weather conditions, what do you guys think. As far as OS goes I am fine now with either Mac OSX or XP so i am more into the power of the machine vs, size and price. Thanks,

The 700 G3 should be faster then the 1GHz P3.

The video in the iBook is a 16meg Radeon. The Fujitsu has SMA. (Intel 830) So the iBook is quite a bit better in this area.

Fujitsu: 11.5"(w) x 9.3"(d) x 1.0"/1.3"(h)
iBook: 11.2 x 9.1 x 1.35
The iBook is a bit smaller.

The Fujitsu is a half pound lighter then the iBook, and has the added advantage of a removable drive, which can take a little more weight out if you're in a situation where you don't need an optical drive.

The Fujitsu claims 4 hours battery life, and the iBook claims 5.

The Fujitsu also has a few advantages:
PC-Card slots
Upgradable optical drive
Infared port
Serial and Parallel and Floppy
2 upgradable memory slots
Smart Card reader

The iBook is quite a bit cheaper for the CD model, $1200 compared to $1550. The combo drive iBook is only $25 less then the Fujitsu when configured with 256 ram and 40 gig HD.

I'd take the iBook in a heartbeat.

http://webshop.fujitsupc.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=AF

[ribitch]

Originally posted by i6s1


The 700 G3 should be faster then the 1GHz P3.

The video in the iBook is a 16meg Radeon. The Fujitsu has SMA. (Intel 830) So the iBook is quite a bit better in this area.

Fujitsu: 11.5"(w) x 9.3"(d) x 1.0"/1.3"(h)
iBook: 11.2 x 9.1 x 1.35
The iBook is a bit smaller.

The Fujitsu is a half pound lighter then the iBook, and has the added advantage of a removable drive, which can take a little more weight out if you're in a situation where you don't need an optical drive.

The Fujitsu claims 4 hours battery life, and the iBook claims 5.

The Fujitsu also has a few advantages:
PC-Card slots
Upgradable optical drive
Infared port
Serial and Parallel and Floppy
2 upgradable memory slots
Smart Card reader

The iBook is quite a bit cheaper for the CD model, $1200 compared to $1550. The combo drive iBook is only $25 less then the Fujitsu when configured with 256 ram and 40 gig HD.

I'd take the iBook in a heartbeat.

http://webshop.fujitsupc.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=AF

excellent rundown in features. I agree with the iBook over the fujitsu. The advantages of serial, parallel and floppy in my opinion are actually disadvantages.. both are dead/dying technologies. infrared is nice, but bluetooth is better. usb bluetooth adaptors are available for all platforms. Samrtcard readers are nice for business. Home users and most business users would probably never use it.

the ibook is faster than the 1 GHz pII in my opinion, and the radeon is way better than the intel chip. I believe the intel ship also shares system ram for video ram. teh ibook has dedicated video ram.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by i6s1


The 700 G3 should be faster then the 1GHz P3.

The video in the iBook is a 16meg Radeon. The Fujitsu has SMA. (Intel 830) So the iBook is quite a bit better in this area.

Fujitsu: 11.5"(w) x 9.3"(d) x 1.0"/1.3"(h)
iBook: 11.2 x 9.1 x 1.35
The iBook is a bit smaller.

The Fujitsu is a half pound lighter then the iBook, and has the added advantage of a removable drive, which can take a little more weight out if you're in a situation where you don't need an optical drive.

The Fujitsu claims 4 hours battery life, and the iBook claims 5.

The Fujitsu also has a few advantages:
PC-Card slots
Upgradable optical drive
Infared port
Serial and Parallel and Floppy
2 upgradable memory slots
Smart Card reader

The iBook is quite a bit cheaper for the CD model, $1200 compared to $1550. The combo drive iBook is only $25 less then the Fujitsu when configured with 256 ram and 40 gig HD.

I'd take the iBook in a heartbeat.

http://webshop.fujitsupc.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=AF


cool thanks, I was wondering about two things, the PC-Card slots (PCMCIA i suppose), so Macs don't have those? how do they add items such as some more hard drive space or other card related hardware?

Also the baterry life claim, I know a lot of PC laptop bateries die out if plugged in (floating charge) so people take out the batery before pluging in thus saving baterry life, but how is it on the ibook, does it have that type of memory problem where the life of the battery wears out when you use it and being plugged in also?

Thanks,

P.S. Ribitch u mean 700 G3 is faster then the 1Ghz P3 right?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi



cool thanks, I was wondering about two things, the PC-Card slots (PCMCIA i suppose), so Macs don't have those? how do they add items such as some more hard drive space or other card related hardware?

Also the baterry life claim, I know a lot of PC laptop bateries die out if plugged in (floating charge) so people take out the batery before pluging in thus saving baterry life, but how is it on the ibook, does it have that type of memory problem where the life of the battery wears out when you use it and being plugged in also?

Thanks,

P.S. Ribitch u mean 700 G3 is faster then the 1Ghz P3 right?

ibook doesnt use pcmcia. most devices that are needed (wireless, modem, NIC, etc) are integrated (under the keyboard is a pcmcia style slot for airport). Any drives can be upgraded by openening the system up an dputting in a new drive, or by using a firewire drive.

most pcmcia cards that i have seen have been for external cd drives, firewire, modems, wireless, NIC, and bluetooth. The only thing you would bneed expansion for is bluetooth, which apple has a usb based adaptor, or a firewire beased external drive. An iPod can be used as an external firewire drive for storage, as well as the music player.

the ibook battery seems to retain its batterylife no matter how often you charge it, and when you charge it (based on time remaining). The battery will also charge as you use the system, and again, has had no noticable effect on the battery.

as for speed, i think the g3 will have an edge on the pentium.

as for ttransfering files from ntfs to mac, i would setup an ftp server on either system (in os x, all it takes to enable ftp or webserving is a click of an option button) and ftp them. or burn them to cd's.

[hapoo]

i'm pretty sure samba (filesharing) is available for OSX since its based on BSD.

[i6s1]

Originally posted by CluelessSi



cool thanks, I was wondering about two things, the PC-Card slots (PCMCIA i suppose), so Macs don't have those? how do they add items such as some more hard drive space or other card related hardware?

Also the baterry life claim, I know a lot of PC laptop bateries die out if plugged in (floating charge) so people take out the batery before pluging in thus saving baterry life, but how is it on the ibook, does it have that type of memory problem where the life of the battery wears out when you use it and being plugged in also?

Thanks,

P.S. Ribitch u mean 700 G3 is faster then the 1Ghz P3 right?

The Powerbooks do have PC-Card slots. The iBooks don't because there isn't much need for them anymore. Apple has tried to have everything built-in. External drives can be attached with firewire. There are lots of enclosures out there so you can even add 120gig 7200 RPM hard drives with firewire.

What kind of card related hardware were you thinking of adding in the next few years? The only one I can think of is USB 2.0. But there's really nothing for USB 2 that you can't use firewire for. The big think with USB 2 is high-speed external burners and hard drives, and eventually mp3 players and digital cameras. I don't think the loss of PC-Card slots is a big deal.

Pretty much all batteries in laptops are lithium ion now. They don't have a memory, but have a certian number of charges. Say it's got 500. Any charge/discharge cycle counts as one, no matter if it's 5 minutes or 2 hours. So removing the battery is a good precaution, but its the same for all laptop, as far a I know. The thing is, if you don't keep it topped up, you never know when you're going to run out. So you might get caught with no battery. Its up to you, but its the same with every battery. An inverter for your car is a very cheap way to charge it on the go. (>$40, don't ever buy a car kit from a manufacturer.)

[ribitch]

Originally posted by i6s1


The Powerbooks do have PC-Card slots. The iBooks don't because there isn't much need for them anymore. Apple has tried to have everything built-in. External drives can be attached with firewire. There are lots of enclosures out there so you can even add 120gig 7200 RPM hard drives with firewire.

What kind of card related hardware were you thinking of adding in the next few years? The only one I can think of is USB 2.0. But there's really nothing for USB 2 that you can't use firewire for. The big think with USB 2 is high-speed external burners and hard drives, and eventually mp3 players and digital cameras. I don't think the loss of PC-Card slots is a big deal.

Pretty much all batteries in laptops are lithium now.

i was thinking about the powerbook as i was typing, but it slipped my mind to add it.

OS X does have SMB builrt in and 10.2 will allow network neighborhood style browsing. i havent used this with any ntfs shares though, so i cant comment on how well it works.

most new firewire enclosure have usb 2.0 & firewire ports. i would use firewire obver usb 2 anyways since it uses less cpu, which allows you to do other things while using the drive

[CluelessSi]

cool, thanks guys.. yea my biggest concern was one, sharing with my XP system.. and two battery life. I travel often so sometimes I would like know that my computer will last the 3 hours trip playing music or whatever... Do u suggest I take out the battery if I do plug in or is a new battery cheap enough that by the time there is a noticable change in life I can just replace it? also is it easy to take out in an ibook?

gear02: with the list of places to buy, did u buy yours yet? I want to also find a good place to buy but I want them to install the airport and upgrade the hd to at least 30gb ont he 13" ibooks cause standard it does not come with those.

[gear02]

Originally posted by CluelessSi


gear02: with the list of places to buy, did u buy yours yet? I want to also find a good place to buy but I want them to install the airport and upgrade the hd to at least 30gb ont he 13" ibooks cause standard it does not come with those.

Not yet. I'm waiting for the new ipods to come out and I want to get Jaguar preinstalled on the ibook. I expect that to happen when Jaguar gets released on August 24 or something.

As far as upgrades and stuff, I'm not sure any of the above will do that. They seem to just sell you the machine as is. If you want customization, I figure you have to buy from apple direct.

[gear02]

ribitch, how hard is it to install memory into an ibook? If i know my way around PC hardware, could I install it myself or is it better just to get someone else to do it?

[i6s1]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
cool, thanks guys.. yea my biggest concern was one, sharing with my XP system.. and two battery life. I travel often so sometimes I would like know that my computer will last the 3 hours trip playing music or whatever... Do u suggest I take out the battery if I do plug in or is a new battery cheap enough that by the time there is a noticable change in life I can just replace it? also is it easy to take out in an ibook?


It should browse XP no problem. I wouldn't bother taking the battery out, I just don't think its worth the extra work. I'd rather just buy a second battery, then you should never get caught without a charge. Its an issue common to all notebooks, but the iBook is one of the best because it has such a long life. The battery in the iBook is harder to take out then a Dell, but not that much hassle.

[i6s1]

Originally posted by gear02
ribitch, how hard is it to install memory into an ibook? If i know my way around PC hardware, could I install it myself or is it better just to get someone else to do it?

Easy as pie.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02
ribitch, how hard is it to install memory into an ibook? If i know my way around PC hardware, could I install it myself or is it better just to get someone else to do it?

almost anyone can do it. you remove the keyboard (unlock it if its locked, and slide back 2 sping loaded tabs. the keyboard pull off. Under the keyboard is a connector for the airport card and cable, and a tin shiield. remove 2 phillips screws and the so-dimm socket is exposed. install the ram, replace cover and replace the keyboard.

most places will only ship std configurations. for the most customization, go through apple.

ibook batteries are real easy to remove. they have a screw typ lock to hold it in. twist it open with a penny, and the battery drops out. cant really get any easier.

[CluelessSi]

hmmm... if i go to the apple store directly can i sign up for the ADC program there so that i can get the discount? Cause what I want is not the usual std. I am looking fo the 13" with 30gb, 256ram w/ airport installed (those are the things usually different from pre-configured) i can prolly just install the ram and airport myself but the hd i want to upgrade cause 20gb is way not enough considering i will store music and movies on it .. or do u think it is better for me to go with say macconnection get teh pre-configs then buy the airport myself and an ipod (btw i am not sure what ipod does, can it expand if i buy a 5gb and figure i need bigger?)
which is a better deal?

[gear02]

We're talking about the student ADC, just to make things clear. The normal one costs much more.

The Student ADC costs $99 and requires a Student ID. When you make a purchase, they require you to fax a copy of your id card and a copy of your latest course registration notice to make sure you have a programming or technology course.

I decided against this because I'm no longer a student though I can use my brother. However, it's a lot of hassle that ends up to be a $40 or so discount. If you buy a powerbook, then it makes a difference, but with ibooks it's not that big of a deal.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
hmmm... if i go to the apple store directly can i sign up for the ADC program there so that i can get the discount? Cause what I want is not the usual std. I am looking fo the 13" with 30gb, 256ram w/ airport installed (those are the things usually different from pre-configured) i can prolly just install the ram and airport myself but the hd i want to upgrade cause 20gb is way not enough considering i will store music and movies on it .. or do u think it is better for me to go with say macconnection get teh pre-configs then buy the airport myself and an ipod (btw i am not sure what ipod does, can it expand if i buy a 5gb and figure i need bigger?)
which is a better deal?

the adc store is just like the standard apple store. the only difference is you need to purchase the memeber ship forst, then you need to buy the system through the adc store.

you can pick and choose what features you want upgraded, and what you want to leave the same.

ipods use pcmcia harddrives, which are fairly pricy. its best to get the 10 or 20 now, instead of paying more later. the 10's and 20's come with a wired remote and carrying case, and also feature a solid state scroll dial instead of a moving one like the 5 gb has. I really dont know if you can upgrade the unit. I would pay the extra 100.00 you save from adc towards one of the larger ipods.



Summary
• 128MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
• 30GB Ultra ATA drive
• DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo
• AirPort Card
• Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
• iPod - 10GB (Mac)
• ATI Mobility RADEON w/ 16MB of memory
• Mac OS X and Mac OS 9 included
• 12.1-inch TFT XGA display

1762.00 using adc
99.00 for membership

1861.00 total




Summary
• 128MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
• 30GB Ultra ATA drive
• DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo
• AirPort Card
• Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
• iPod - 10GB (Mac)
• ATI Mobility RADEON w/ 16MB of memory
• Mac OS X and Mac OS 9 included
• 12.1-inch TFT XGA display

2097 using normal apple store


2097-1861=236 dollar savings, or alittle over 11% after paying for the memebership. Depending ob the number of OS updates apple ships in the next year, this number will be a greater savings.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02
We're talking about the student ADC, just to make things clear. The normal one costs much more.

The Student ADC costs $99 and requires a Student ID. When you make a purchase, they require you to fax a copy of your id card and a copy of your latest course registration notice to make sure you have a programming or technology course.

I decided against this because I'm no longer a student though I can use my brother. However, it's a lot of hassle that ends up to be a $40 or so discount. If you buy a powerbook, then it makes a difference, but with ibooks it's not that big of a deal.

its more thna 40.00 bucks if you use the systems and ipods i speced out above. 236.00 to be exact. worth it in my opinion.

[gear02]

Originally posted by ribitch


its more thna 40.00 bucks if you use the systems and ipods i speced out above. 236.00 to be exact. worth it in my opinion.

Yeah I noticed that. I guess for me since I'm getting the basics it's not worth too much. For clueless who is adding everything it works out beautifully.

I'm also decently lazy for doing all that ADC, especially when it's not me.

[i6s1]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
hmmm... if i go to the apple store directly can i sign up for the ADC program there so that i can get the discount? Cause what I want is not the usual std. I am looking fo the 13" with 30gb, 256ram w/ airport installed (those are the things usually different from pre-configured) i can prolly just install the ram and airport myself but the hd i want to upgrade cause 20gb is way not enough considering i will store music and movies on it .. or do u think it is better for me to go with say macconnection get teh pre-configs then buy the airport myself and an ipod (btw i am not sure what ipod does, can it expand if i buy a 5gb and figure i need bigger?)
which is a better deal?

There is no 13" screen, only 12 and 14.

For the HD, it is possible to upgrade it yourself, but its a lot of work. Apple charges $100 for the 20 to 30 upgrade, but you can buy a 30 gig for $100. It depends if you think the resale value of the 20 is worth the work to change it. (And if anything goes wrong, you void your warranty.)

Another option is this:
http://www.esystor.com/shop/IPS003.asp?ProCd=FWEX-SSHD207200&LClssCd=001&LClssNm=Computers&MClssCd=025&MClssNm=USB/IEEE%20Hard%20Drives

It's about the same price as the apple upgrade, but you get 40 gigs total, and the drive is alot faster.

I wouldn't buy the ram from Apple if you can avoid it, cause they charge alot more then it's worth.

And the iPods are not upgradable, as far as I know.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by gear02


Yeah I noticed that. I guess for me since I'm getting the basics it's not worth too much. For clueless who is adding everything it works out beautifully.

I'm also decently lazy for doing all that ADC, especially when it's not me.
haha i know the feeling, does the ipod only store mp3 files or can it store just plain files? also i wonder what will happen if mp3 is no longer the standard technology...
how are the headphones on those, I am planing on buying the Sony headphones in my other post which are very good, just wondering if this is comparable then i would not need to buy those other earphones (MDREX70SL)

[gear02]

I think the Mac ipod can store plain files. Apple hypes that feature a lot, calling it a hard drive.

Actually there's a funny story to this. Microsoft's Office v.X has this cool "feature" where it can restore itself back to it's proper installation if some files are deleted or something. Well, people took their Ipods into stores, hooked it up to demo machines and downloaded Office to their ipods and walked out. Took a couple of minutes and they had their own copy of Office. =)

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by gear02
I think the Mac ipod can store plain files. Apple hypes that feature a lot, calling it a hard drive.

Actually there's a funny story to this. Microsoft's Office v.X has this cool "feature" where it can restore itself back to it's proper installation if some files are deleted or something. Well, people took their Ipods into stores, hooked it up to demo machines and downloaded Office to their ipods and walked out. Took a couple of minutes and they had their own copy of Office. =)

haha icic, yea cause i figured i might just not go through the hassle if ipod can be a hdd, then i can just stick with the 20 gb and get an airport (easy to install?) and an ipod (10gb)

o yea when i asked the question about the apple store i meant if i can go into the actual pyhsical store and apply and get the discount right there

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi

haha i know the feeling, does the ipod only store mp3 files or can it store just plain files? also i wonder what will happen if mp3 is no longer the standard technology...
how are the headphones on those, I am planing on buying the Sony headphones in my other post which are very good, just wondering if this is comparable then i would not need to buy those other earphones (MDREX70SL)

gear02 is right, it is a portable firewire harddrive. I'm not usre if windows users will get this feature. they info on the windows ipods state that not all features will be available for windows.

the headphones are pretty good (at least the first revision were). They just revised them, so i am assuming they are better. apple prides themselves on video and audio capabilities, so they invested a great deal in research and development of these.

the unit is upgradable for future audio formats. this is located on the tech specs page at apple.com


Audio
Up to 20 minutes of skip protection
Maximum output power: 60 mW rms (30 mW per channel)
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz
Audio formats supported: MP3 (up to 320 Kbps), MP3 Variable Bit Rate (VBR), WAV, AIFF, Audible® (for Mac only)(4)
Upgradable firmware enables support for future audio formats

Headphones
Earbud-style headphones with 18-mm drivers using Neodymium transducer magnets
Frequency response: 20 to 20,000 Hz
Impedance: 32 ohms
Sensitivity: 104-dB sound pressure level at 1 mW


if you go with an ipod, i would hold off on the sony headphones until you hear the ipod. if you dont like the ipods, then get the sony ones. This way you dont buy them and find out you like the apple ones better

[CluelessSi]

cool, yea i think i will go for std size harddrive and bigger ipod..
i totally forgot my school has a computer store, these are prices they list, what u think? Also if i buy an extra battery it is no installed right? meaning it is a battery to swap in rather then having both in it

--------------- (store)
iBOOK SERIES - Power PC G3 processor; 12.1" or 14.1" TFT display (1024 x 768); RAM expandable to 640MB; 8MB VRAM; available with one of the following: 24X CD-ROM or DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo drive; 10/100baseT Ethernet; 56K modem; two USB ports;one Firewire port (supports Target Disk Mode, where iBook can be plugged into another Macintosh and appear as a hard drive on the other system's desktop); built-in stereo speakers; built-in microphone; VGA video out for mirroring or projector; composite video out and stereo audio out via AV port (requires optional cable). Up to 5 hours runtime with battery (6 hours on 14.1" model). Support for AirPort wireless networking, allowing freedom to move up to 150 feet from the base station. Includes AC Adapter and battery. Polycarbonate plastic case resembling Titanium Powerbook and internal lightweight magnesium frame, 4.9 or 5.9 pounds.

iBOOK 700MHz / 100MHz Bus - 12.1" TFT, 128MB RAM, 20GB HD, CD-RW/DVD-ROM, Mac OS X. (M8602LL/A) ....$1399.

------------(built with education discount)
• 256MB SDRAM - 2 DIMMs
• 20GB Ultra ATA drive
• DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo
• AirPort Card
• Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English
• iPod - 10GB (Mac)
• ATI Mobility RADEON w/ 16MB of memory
• Mac OS X and Mac OS 9 included
• 12.1-inch TFT XGA display
700 mhz 13" G3
Subtotal $1,930.00
------------------

man decisions =/

so yea can i sign up for adc right at an apple store (physical store)

I wonder what "Polycarbonate plastic case resembling Titanium Powerbook and internal lightweight magnesium frame" is.... is it standard on ibooks?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
cool, yea i think i will go for std size harddrive and bigger ipod..
i totally forgot my school has a computer store, these are prices they list, what u think? Also if i buy an extra battery it is no installed right? meaning it is a battery to swap in rather then having both in it

--------------- (store)
iBOOK SERIES - Power PC G3 processor; 12.1" or 14.1" TFT display (1024 x 768); RAM expandable to 640MB; 8MB VRAM; available with one of the following: 24X CD-ROM or DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo drive; 10/100baseT Ethernet; 56K modem; two USB ports;one Firewire port (supports Target Disk Mode, where iBook can be plugged into another Macintosh and appear as a hard drive on the other system's desktop); built-in stereo speakers; built-in microphone; VGA video out for mirroring or projector; composite video out and stereo audio out via AV port (requires optional cable). Up to 5 hours runtime with battery (6 hours on 14.1" model). Support for AirPort wireless networking, allowing freedom to move up to 150 feet from the base station. Includes AC Adapter and battery. Polycarbonate plastic case resembling Titanium Powerbook and internal lightweight magnesium frame, 4.9 or 5.9 pounds.

iBOOK 700MHz / 100MHz Bus - 12.1" TFT, 128MB RAM, 20GB HD, CD-RW/DVD-ROM, Mac OS X. (M8602LL/A) ....$1399.

------------(built with education discount)
• 256MB SDRAM - 2 DIMMs
• 20GB Ultra ATA drive
• DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo
• AirPort Card
• Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English
• iPod - 10GB (Mac)
• ATI Mobility RADEON w/ 16MB of memory
• Mac OS X and Mac OS 9 included
• 12.1-inch TFT XGA display
700 mhz 13" G3
Subtotal $1,930.00
------------------

man decisions =/

so yea can i sign up for adc right at an apple store (physical store)

you have to sign up for adc online. only takes a few minutes. i would definitely go adc. you can get the 30 gig harddrive in the system or more ram for about the same price as you would get the system you specced out above.

the ibook only accepts 1 battery at a time. the powerbook will allow you to swap batteries while the system is running, but i dont think the ibook can do thta. i havent researched it or tried it, so i really dont know. A second battery cannot be charged by the power adaptor either. Some companies sell a cradle for doing this, but iw ould save your money. you can easily get 4 hours off 1 battery.

i also just read that the ipod can be used as a windows harddrive, but it cannot boot the windows box. on macs, you can install an os on the ipod. This allows you to use it on somebody elses computer but useing your settings and software. a pretty nice feature.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch


you have to sign up for adc online. only takes a few minutes. i would definitely go adc. you can get the 30 gig harddrive in the system or more ram for about the same price as you would get the system you specced out above.

the ibook only accepts 1 battery at a time. the powerbook will allow you to swap batteries while the system is running, but i dont think the ibook can do thta. i havent researched it or tried it, so i really dont know. A second battery cannot be charged by the power adaptor either. Some companies sell a cradle for doing this, but iw ould save your money. you can easily get 4 hours off 1 battery.

i also just read that the ipod can be used as a windows harddrive, but it cannot boot the windows box. on macs, you can install an os on the ipod. This allows you to use it on somebody elses computer but useing your settings and software. a pretty nice feature.


haha cool, hmm with the adc though i thought i need to fax them stuff which will take a while... Also The address I want to ship the book to will not be the address i want everything else to ship to, can i register one address buy ship the ibook to another (while updates back to the original addy)...
I can't get into and see the ADC discounts, can u configure a system like the above and tell me how much it cost (20 gb, 256 ram, ipod 10gb, airport) thx hmm maybe getting on macconnection will be cheaper then education... i will have to chk that one. the ADC does look appealing but not sure if the upgrades are worth it (how many usually comes out? what type of upgrades?)

what is "Polycarbonate plastic case resembling Titanium Powerbook and internal lightweight magnesium frame" is.... is it standard on ibooks?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi



haha cool, hmm with the adc though i thought i need to fax them stuff which will take a while... Also The address I want to ship the book to will not be the address i want everything else to ship to, can i register one address buy ship the ibook to another (while updates back to the original addy)...

what is "Polycarbonate plastic case resembling Titanium Powerbook and internal lightweight magnesium frame" is.... is it standard on ibooks?

i believe you can ship to an address other than the billing address. As far as shipping things to several various locations, i think you're out of luck. the adc is one time discount, so i dont think you could purchase the system and something else sperately.

the case is simply the shell. its built fairly tough. i dont know where they got the powerbook wording, because in my opinion its completely different. the magnessium frame is on all of them as well. magnessium is a strong yet lightweight. they need the system to be durable and lightweight so it can be used in education. When showing off ibooks, i would hit the thing against a table. it would get allot of attention, and people were surprised that it didnt break. it was pretty cool to do. i would never do the same with most other laptops

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch


i believe you can ship to an address other than the billing address. As far as shipping things to several various locations, i think you're out of luck. the adc is one time discount, so i dont think you could purchase the system and something else sperately.

the case is simply the shell. its built fairly tough. i dont know where they got the powerbook wording, because in my opinion its completely different. the magnessium frame is on all of them as well. magnessium is a strong yet lightweight. they need the system to be durable and lightweight so it can be used in education. When showing off ibooks, i would hit the thing against a table. it would get allot of attention, and people were surprised that it didnt break. it was pretty cool to do. i would never do the same with most other laptops

=) cool u said adc sign up is online but i think someone mentioning needing to fax papers and stuff, is that really nesseary? or can i sign up then buy? Also that one time hardware discount... I might get a powerbook like way down the line (a few years) should i worry about not having the discount or does that discount renew every year since this is a yearly subscription right?

The ibooks comes with both OS9 and OSX, which is better, can i take one of them out easily, don't want to waste the space if not needed...

how are thier refurbs... i see one that is like a few hundred less then new one but same things.. dunno if i can trust refurbs, what u think?

thanks

[gear02]

Yeah. The webpage states that when you place your order you have to fax your course registration and student ID to verify you're indeed a student. Yeah...they'll take your $100 without asking but when you want something back they'll scrutinize you to hell.

I also think it's a One time lifetime hardware purchase, meaning no matter how many times you renew, you can only get the discount once.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi


=) cool u said adc sign up is online but i think someone mentioning needing to fax papers and stuff, is that really nesseary? or can i sign up then buy? Also that one time hardware discount... I might get a powerbook like way down the line (a few years) should i worry about not having the discount or does that discount renew every year since this is a yearly subscription right?

The ibooks comes with both OS9 and OSX, which is better, can i take one of them out easily, don't want to waste the space if not needed...

O yea u mentioned a refurb store, what is the link to that? A friend of mine wants to get an ibook also but he does not want to spend a lot so looking into old systems.

thanks

the adc requires proof of being a student, so the faxing of the papers is required. simply print off a class chedule from your school or a class schedule that was mailed to you and a copy of your id.

i believe its one discount per person. you would have to read the specifics of it.

OS X is better in my opinion. i never did like the old mac os too much, and i started using th X beta three months after i started to try using macs. You can delete the files from 9, or you can reformat the drive. i plan on leaving 9 on until after 10.2 is out. some apps still use 9, so i dont want to loose all compatabliity with them. I just delete apps that i dont use in 9. Most apps have a seperate 9 and X version, so i delete the 9 versions of IE, acrobat, itunes, imvie, etc). It usually frees up some room. 9 itslef isnt too large.

the lower left corner of the apple store front has the refurbished store link. stuff sellsquickly in there and varies day to day.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch


the adc requires proof of being a student, so the faxing of the papers is required. simply print off a class chedule from your school or a class schedule that was mailed to you and a copy of your id.

i believe its one discount per person. you would have to read the specifics of it.

OS X is better in my opinion. i never did like the old mac os too much, and i started using th X beta three months after i started to try using macs. You can delete the files from 9, or you can reformat the drive. i plan on leaving 9 on until after 10.2 is out. some apps still use 9, so i dont want to loose all compatabliity with them. I just delete apps that i dont use in 9. Most apps have a seperate 9 and X version, so i delete the 9 versions of IE, acrobat, itunes, imvie, etc). It usually frees up some room. 9 itslef isnt too large.

the lower left corner of the apple store front has the refurbished store link. stuff sellsquickly in there and varies day to day.


Thanks, I haven't used mac since i was in elementry school so I have no idea how to operate some of the stuff, any pages on that? like does OSX I just delete the folder then things are gone or is there an uninstall like XP, also stuff like if want to configure my netowrk connections or startup or ipconfig.. (i am very manual and in control of XP when comes to tweaking and stuff) so just wondering where i can find those information or if u can give me a few pointers on stuff like that..

also i know OSX is based on Unix so can i say put a g++ compiler on it and open a unix window to compile?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi



Thanks, I haven't used mac since i was in elementry school so I have no idea how to operate some of the stuff, any pages on that? like does OSX I just delete the folder then things are gone or is there an uninstall like XP, also stuff like if want to configure my netowrk connections or startup or ipconfig.. (i am very manual and in control of XP when comes to tweaking and stuff) so just wondering where i can find those information or if u can give me a few pointers on stuff like that..

also i know OSX is based on Unix so can i say put a g++ compiler on it and open a unix window to compile?

OS X some apps include an uninstall (like limewire), while others dont. most apps can be thrown out to uninstall them. Apps like photoshop and MS products liek to spread files all over the system, so trashing them only removes part of them.

you can tweak your startup with some 3rd party shareware apps. i remove all unneeded keyboard drivers, video drivers, scsi drivers, and anything else that is enabled by default. i cant tell any difference in startup speeds orr anything liek that. you acn set up ip's using bootp, dhcp, static, and static with dhcp routers. you can also tweak internet connections with many of these third party apps. one app i use extensively (MOX) will optimize the network each time the system reboots. There are several things that can be tweaked, and probably even more than i am aware of.

apple ships a developer tools cd with all system.(i think the install image is on the hd by default) that includes things like the gcc compilers and a few IDE (development IDE, not hardwrae IDE)programs that simplify your coding.

if you have programmed in unix, i dont think you will be disappointed with OS X.

[gear02]

for those who are interested in buying a new ibook (ahem Clueless), amazon marked off $100 of all laptops. It's the standard configurations though, but all I need the extra ram anyway.

I don't know how this compares to the rest or if I had already taken it into account, but I'll let you know when I get home and check my spreadsheet.

Also, Apple is giving OSX 1.2 for $20 for those who buy a system without 1.2 after July 17 (Macworld), so don't worry about having to fork over $129 for it.

Apple is also giving a free printer with a purchase for an ibook
http://www.apple.com/promo/printandsave/

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02
for those who are interested in buying a new ibook (ahem Clueless), amazon marked off $100 of all laptops. It's the standard configurations though, but all I need the extra ram anyway.

I don't know how this compares to the rest or if I had already taken it into account, but I'll let you know when I get home and check my spreadsheet.

Also, Apple is giving OSX 1.2 for $20 for those who buy a system without 1.2 after July 17 (Macworld), so don't worry about having to fork over $129 for it.

Apple is also giving a free printer with a purchase for an ibook
http://www.apple.com/promo/printandsave/

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47498

good job at finding these. reposted it in the got|deals thread. credit was given to you.

[gear02]

hehehe thanks ribitch =)

clueless take a look at macprices.com They have a full list of prices from authorized retailers.

[CluelessSi]

cool thanx, yea I am going to buy the system soon so will start looking at prices, after you compare prices, let me know.. I can either get education discount or others, the ADC program is compelling but I don't think I will enter it yet until I get big purchases (powerbook) O yea one more thing, how well does the ibook run warcraft 3? I might not play it often on such a small screen but might play it once in a while if bored... plus i might play other games on there if over a friends place.

[gear02]

Ladies and Gentlemen...errr...welll just Gentlemen I guess...

I bought my ibook.

Bought it from amazon. 1413.99 with 2 day shipping and a $5 off =)

700 Mhz G3 12.1 inch

Need to get a stick of RAM eventually.

Also got the new 10 gig ipod from apple.com with education discount (how is an ipod educational?)

fun fun fun

now I'm going to go find some money...

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02
Ladies and Gentlemen...errr...welll just Gentlemen I guess...

I bought my ibook.

Bought it from amazon. 1413.99 with 2 day shipping and a $5 off =)

700 Mhz G3 12.1 inch

Need to get a stick of RAM eventually.

Also got the new 10 gig ipod from apple.com with education discount (how is an ipod educational?)

fun fun fun

now I'm going to go find some money...

i ordered one today as well. 700 mhz 12" 256MB ram, and airport. 1422 using adc. Its for my sister, since she needed a computer for school.

[gear02]

where can I buy an airport card and hub for cheap?

[CluelessSi]

cool yea i would need more ram and airport plus ipod =P so might just go educational... anyway so how well does this g3 with 16mb radeon play warcraft 3?

[gear02]

I got memory from crucial.

256MB for $62.69

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by gear02
I got memory from crucial.

256MB for $62.69

are they just standard SD Ram? or is it specific for laptops or for ibooks? If same then I will not get it as part of the build (sooo expensive 128 for like $73) What you guys think, 30gb hd with 10gb ipod or 20gb hd with 20gb ipod, about same price... which would be better to have?

[Jeffbx]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
What you guys think, 30gb hd with 10gb ipod or 20gb hd with 20gb ipod, about same price... which would be better to have?

Do 20GB with 20GB. The laptop drive can be upgraded; the ipod can't.

[ribitch]

any high quality so-dimm will work. i would recommend going through crucial as well. they have great products and are very affordable, plus they often have free shipping and 15% off.

get the airport card using the educational discount or adc discount. you do not need an apple base station. They are nice and the software to control them are top notch, but they arent needed. A standard 802.11b wireless access point will do the trick. The iBook will be exteremly easy to get up and online. Unlike most PC's i have seen, the ibook and connect to a base station within 2 or 3 clicks (depending on if its password protected, if thats the case 4-5 clicks). Since apple designs products with the totally unexperienced in mind, the wireless will be as simple as it gets.

I dont know how warcraft 3 plays. i am looking at getting a copy. I assume it runs fairly decent, since it only requires a 400 MHz G3.

anyone know how easy it is to "backup" that cd?

what kind of shipping time did you get on that iBook? My sisters is supposed to ship in 6 days. I had the option of 2 days fedex for 15.00, but i decided to get the free 2-5 day ground shipping. i tried to get her to go for the ipod (239.00 5GB adc), but she wants a printer and digital camera instead. she plans on getting the hp 315/825cvr bundle from microcenter for 199.00

as far as the ipod & ibook storage goes, i would go for 20/20. i dont like too much stored on my main system. you could partition the ipod to 10/10 and have 10 GB for music, and the other ten for docuemnts, programs, ect. That way you can bring the ipod to any mac and pull off what you need.

[gear02]

Here's something you learn about amazon. As fun and dandy the free shipping is, it's horrific. It's like they wait a week before they even get to your order and then it takes another week to arrive. It's only good for items that have expensive shipping (kitchen items), but if you want it soon, you should pay for shipping.

I paid an extra $25 for 2 day shipping. I think my arrive day is July 31st

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch
any high quality so-dimm will work. i would recommend going through crucial as well. they have great products and are very affordable, plus they often have free shipping and 15% off.

get the airport card using the educational discount or adc discount. you do not need an apple base station. They are nice and the software to control them are top notch, but they arent needed. A standard 802.11b wireless access point will do the trick. The iBook will be exteremly easy to get up and online. Unlike most PC's i have seen, the ibook and connect to a base station within 2 or 3 clicks (depending on if its password protected, if thats the case 4-5 clicks). Since apple designs products with the totally unexperienced in mind, the wireless will be as simple as it gets.

I dont know how warcraft 3 plays. i am looking at getting a copy. I assume it runs fairly decent, since it only requires a 400 MHz G3.

anyone know how easy it is to "backup" that cd?

what kind of shipping time did you get on that iBook? My sisters is supposed to ship in 6 days. I had the option of 2 days fedex for 15.00, but i decided to get the free 2-5 day ground shipping. i tried to get her to go for the ipod (239.00 5GB adc), but she wants a printer and digital camera instead. she plans on getting the hp 315/825cvr bundle from microcenter for 199.00

as far as the ipod & ibook storage goes, i would go for 20/20. i dont like too much stored on my main system. you could partition the ipod to 10/10 and have 10 GB for music, and the other ten for docuemnts, programs, ect. That way you can bring the ipod to any mac and pull off what you need.

thanks, I am going to try and anaylyse how much space i usually use on my computer for just programs minus data and then decide. I think it was mentioned before that you can get $100 rebate on printers when u get the iBook, Personally I am not a big fan of rebates since sometime they are just so slow and I don't keep track of them but the free photo printer (cause of rebate) seems to be pretty useful if you want to print pictures, right now I have not printed any yet but if the paper is cheap then maybe I will consder getting on (what resolution should camera be at to get good quality photos on paper?)

As for "backup" I am not sure, someone did lend me a cd and all you had to do was to copy with any software, but then again that was cracked.... I don't play it though, don't have the time plus without a key I can't go online which sucks so I will get the full versoin later on.

I am on the apple page and I don't see how the iPod doubles as a harddrive, they don't really advertize it. can you show me the page where it says it can be used as a harddrive? ... nm i found it, it is not really emphsized =P the 20gb is a little bigger and heavier then the 10gb... hmm i wonder if i will notice the difference..

[gear02]

I think by bigger and heavier they mean like a couple ounces...

[ribitch]

great f.a.q. on the ipod by apple:
http://www.apple.com/ipod/faq.html

the 20 GB is 16g or .7 ounces heavier than the other models. So, at 7.2 ounces, the 20 GB models is still under 1/2 lb, which is fairly light.

[CluelessSi]

/me wondering if i would use up all 20gb... how practiacal is it? what do you guys think, do you guys use an ipod and how much memory do u use out of it.... I figure they will come out with new technology later on that will outdate the current ipod and I stil might not use all the memory.. hmm....

o yea a question about synching contacts and email form outlook, how would u do that with the mac with the outlook on the PC?

[gear02]

I'm getting a 10 GB because a) I don't have nearly 3 gigs of MP3s and b) because I doubt I'll use that much.

How do I update my calendar on my iPod?
iPod supports industry-standard iCalendar and vCalendar files, which can be exported by many applications including Microsoft Entourage, Microsoft Outlook, and Palm Desktop. iCal, the new desktop calendar application from Apple, also works with the new iPod calendar. Simply drag your iCalendar or vCalendar files to your iPod, and you can access your calendar even when you are away from your computer.

How do I add contacts to my iPod?
iPod can store up to 1,000 contacts right alongside your music as industry-standard vCards files. iPod is compatible with popular applications such as Microsoft Entourage, Microsoft Outlook, and Palm Desktop.(4) Simply export your contacts as vCards into your iPod, and you can access names, phone numbers, and addresses on the go.

[CluelessSi]

o i meant syching between the ibook and my pc =P how do i do that?

[CluelessSi]

hmm any promotion codes you guys got for the apple store?

[CluelessSi]

woohoo ordered mine on educational discount, can have more discout goign through my school but I want to play with it now and my school would not ship it... now I will get the extra memory from crucial..
how do i get the $20 upgrade to 10.2 that you mentioned before?

[ribitch]

to sync email between 2 systems using pop mail, simply leave the message on the server.

to sync calenders may be more difficult. i personally dont use one, so i dont know how to go about doing it.

the ipod is upgradeable, so if a better format is released (possibly aac or ogg), apple can implement it. If the iPod is replaced by a better technology, it still can be used as a portable hd.

I have about 34 CD's of MP3's in complete album format, without any duplicate albums. this works out to be about 24-25 GB of music. I used to keep them stored on a 20 GB hd, and then i decided to use that drive in a raid config so i burned them. for me, the 20 would be ideal, or possibly too small. I am a music lover though.

i see the 100.00 upgrade (retail priced) as a bargin for going from 5-10, since you get double the space, the remote, and the cool new scroll dial, and the extra 100 to go from 10 to a 20 as a bargain as well. It is allot of cash for an mp3 player though. The plus side is you dont have to buy the expensive SM & CF cards.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch
to sync email between 2 systems using pop mail, simply leave the message on the server.

to sync calenders may be more difficult. i personally dont use one, so i dont know how to go about doing it.

the ipod is upgradeable, so if a better format is released (possibly aac or ogg), apple can implement it. If the iPod is replaced by a better technology, it still can be used as a portable hd.

I have about 34 CD's of MP3's in complete album format, without any duplicate albums. this works out to be about 24-25 GB of music. I used to keep them stored on a 20 GB hd, and then i decided to use that drive in a raid config so i burned them. for me, the 20 would be ideal, or possibly too small. I am a music lover though.

i see the 100.00 upgrade (retail priced) as a bargin for going from 5-10, since you get double the space, the remote, and the cool new scroll dial, and the extra 100 to go from 10 to a 20 as a bargain as well. It is allot of cash for an mp3 player though. The plus side is you dont have to buy the expensive SM & CF cards.
cool thanks for all your help guys, prolly would have more questions later on when i use it more. Right now I opted to get the 10gb because I would use my main desktop (90gb) to store a lot of my music so i can just transfer stuff out. too bad the ipod can be used only with windows or with mac and not both on same unit, but i can just transfer to my ibook then onto the ipod... :shrug: I figure the ipod will only get bigger drive and better so by time i need a better one i can give this one to bro and get new one (in a few years or so) =) how well does the ipod fair in winter conditions though, a big fear of mine is the laptop and ipod going trough cold and hot shocks.....



man i hate these work laptops.... they are pretty good but my company likes to modify it with a lot of junk and stuff.. anyways.. it dies on me sooo often grrr..... then again i guess laptops (p3) not meant to run server, notes, chat proggies, Java IDE, TOAD, and multiple IE windows at the same time :P

[i6s1]

I think if you plug a mac iPod into a PC it recognises it as an external drive and you can copy music onto it. It just doesn't sync with any music programs. I could be wrong. I'll try it if someone wants to send me an iPod.

Of course, you would need firewire on the PC.

[gear02]

hehehe...Ribitch convinced me to get the 20gig instead =)

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi

cool thanks for all your help guys, prolly would have more questions later on when i use it more. Right now I opted to get the 10gb because I would use my main desktop (90gb) to store a lot of my music so i can just transfer stuff out. too bad the ipod can be used only with windows or with mac and not both on same unit, but i can just transfer to my ibook then onto the ipod... :shrug: I figure the ipod will only get bigger drive and better so by time i need a better one i can give this one to bro and get new one (in a few years or so) =) how well does the ipod fair in winter conditions though, a big fear of mine is the laptop and ipod going trough cold and hot shocks.....

no problem.

here is my take on the compatibility between the 2 ipod versions.
windows cant read HFS+, which is what the iPods(mac) file system is.

The mac can read FAT32, which is what the PC ipod uses. However, the PC version doesnt support all features that the mac version uses.

therefore, apple states the mac ipod doesnt work on a pc (third party software will allow it to work, but i havent tested it), but apple only says the PC ipod isnt supported by apple to work on a mac. Therefore the PC version probably will work on the mac, but you drop many of the mac's features.

possible ways to overcome the mac ipod wont work on a pc:
One way to get the mac version to work on a pc would be to partition it into 2 partitions.music partition would be HFS+, and the data would use FAT (apple disk utility can format disks to use FAT). Then the device would in theory work on a pc. if xplay, or whatever those 3rd party pc ipod apps are, works with HFS, then the mac ipod would in theory be cross platform. However, if the PC apps require you to format the ipod to use FAT, then you are back to what the windows ipod would get you.

As far as winter conditions go, i kinda left my ibook in the car overnight, and it was very very cold outside, so the system wouldnt start up immediately once i brought it in. AFter letting it warm up, it worked fine.

from apple on ipod:


Environmental requirements
Operating temperature: 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C)

[gear02]

Clueless:

Upgrade to 10.2
http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

$100 rebate for Epson Stylus Photo 820:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/211/wo/iypc40v0LP6eZlP1rv/0.3.0.3.34.81.0.FrontPagePromoListTile.1.0.0.7.4.8.0.10.1

More discounts for new purchasers:
http://www.apple.com/promo/coupon/

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by gear02
Clueless:

Upgrade to 10.2
http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

$100 rebate for Epson Stylus Photo 820:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/211/wo/iypc40v0LP6eZlP1rv/0.3.0.3.34.81.0.FrontPagePromoListTile.1.0.0.7.4.8.0.10.1

More discounts for new purchasers:
http://www.apple.com/promo/coupon/

cool when is it out also if i get 10.2 should i kill 9 (just delete folder or is there uninstall) or is there proggies that need 9?

[gear02]

Along those same lines as above, is there any software we should immediately remove from our ibooks?

Also, how do we make sure that a program is completely removed if there is no uninstall program?

[ribitch]

to kill OS 9, you can delete the system folder and the applications folder, or just reformat the system as soon as you get it.

to uninstall an app. simply drag if to the trash can. to look for additional files for that app, do a search in the finder by pressing the apple key and f simultaniously. sherlock will pop up and allow you to search you harddrive for anything you type.

I delete the programs listed above and thats about it. There are some apps still using 9, but a good portion have been ported. Some require 9 to install and then can run natively in X. These are called carbon apps. Cocoa apps are apps written exclusively for X.

[CluelessSi]

hmm... interesting... gotta learn about booting in 9 and OSX once i get the system then... hmmm.. I know macs are good for sound and video editing, what software do they provide for that or what is good out there. I currently use Cooledit Pro and Sound Forge for my sound editing in my PC (which has a Midi connector so might use it still for recording), do they have better ones on mac or should i keep using those but a mac version?
O yea also what is the comparable system to the ibook g3 700 mhx in the PC side? (p3 900mhz?)

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
hmm... interesting... gotta learn about booting in 9 and OSX once i get the system then... hmmm.. I know macs are good for sound and video editing, what software do they provide for that or what is good out there. I currently use Cooledit Pro and Sound Forge for my sound editing in my PC (which has a Midi connector so might use it still for recording), do they have better ones on mac or should i keep using those but a mac version?
O yea also what is the comparable system to the ibook g3 700 mhx in the PC side? (p3 900mhz?)

for audio, protools supposedly rules. I have never really used it, but i am starting to try to learn it. it needs to run in 9, not classic (os 9 emulator in X)

for video editting iMovie is good for beginners.

if you get more advanced, Final Cut Pro is great for video editting,a dn some audio edditing, or an advanced version of ProTools. The free version of protools linits the number of channels you can use I believe.

for a speed comparison of an iBook vs a pc laptop, i would say a 700 MHz iBook is between a 1.0GHz and 1.1 GHz PIII. It all depends on the task as well. Its very hard to guage the performance between them. 10.2 will make the system seem much faster.

[gear02]

Originally posted by ribitch
to kill OS 9, you can delete the system folder and the applications folder, or just reformat the system as soon as you get it.

to uninstall an app. simply drag if to the trash can. to look for additional files for that app, do a search in the finder by pressing the apple key and f simultaniously. sherlock will pop up and allow you to search you harddrive for anything you type.

I delete the programs listed above and thats about it. There are some apps still using 9, but a good portion have been ported. Some require 9 to install and then can run natively in X. These are called carbon apps. Cocoa apps are apps written exclusively for X.

Ok...from a guy coming from a windows perspective where files are installed in many many places, thus relying on the uninstaller to do its job, it feels very unclean to me.

With macs, are programs generally installed in the same place??

Also, what basic file formats should I learn about the Mac? You know how like .exe, .bat, .txt are typical formats for PC. What about Macs?

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02


Ok...from a guy coming from a windows perspective where files are installed in many many places, thus relying on the uninstaller to do its job, it feels very unclean to me.

With macs, are programs generally installed in the same place??

Also, what basic file formats should I learn about the Mac? You know how like .exe, .bat, .txt are typical formats for PC. What about Macs?

ok, i totally thought it was wierd to see files with no extensions on them. Apple has extensions, but really doesnt need them.

File types:
.app - application. Its a package which can be editted to change icons (apple can have animated icons, differnt icons for difference states of the program, ect) and preferences. The app extension will not be visible.

.sit - stuff it archive kinda liek a rar or zip

.dmg - OS X disk image

.img - an image

.tar.gz - from the unix world. files pretty much zipped together using gzip and traball

.hqx - compressed file


Practically all windows extensions can be opened on a mac except executables, which require virtual pc.

office by deafult doesnt add the extension since it knows what it is. i keep the check box marked to add teh extension by default.

Most apps install by a simple drag and drop to whereever you want it. If i try an app before i decide to keep it, i install to the desktop. if i like it, i move it to the Applications folder(there are 2 applications folders. 1 for OS X, and one for OS 9 apps. you can mix em up if you want, some apps know they are a program files style location). Some apps offer installers, these apps are like linewire, office (can be dragged and dropped for a std install), photoshop 7(i think its like office), and various others. You can pick where you want them to install to. Since I am originally a windows user, I like the installers so i can customize the install, and eliminate thing si wont use.

If you dont want an app anymore, search for its name. delete the original application, and its preference file (this holds all settings and tweaks). You can leave the prefernce file since its a small file, but i like getting rid of it all. the preference wont have any bearing on the systems performance if its left behind.

the drag and drop install is very nice. you dont need to worry about files being stored all over your system. Some apps are all packaged together in a folder with the drag and drop while other are just the application.

It seems very confusing in type, but its very very easy. Coming from a windows background, it will take a week or so to get used to it.

[CluelessSi]

how long does apple take to process the order.. hmm i am wondering if my debit card had a limit and they can't process it or something but should get an email... haha or i am just impatient... i ordered yesterday, it is still in the being reviewed stage....

[ribitch]

i ordered my sisters ibook wed night, and its being assembled right now. The site said there was a 6 day delay to ship, an dthey tend to have a fairly acurate estimation on shipping times.

what did you end up with?

[CluelessSi]

hmm i ordered yesterday, it says being reviewed.. nothing else =P..... I hope it come soon (i asked for 2nd day shipment when ready) I kinda want to play with it while I am still here... or else could have just got it at home hehe....

A question about Labview and Mac... Labview kinda kills the laptop, or at least the laptops I have worked with they put a lot of junk on. how is it for MAcs? is there one for macs also I know the card is a PCMCIA card... so is there another way to connect it to the ibook or I must have a powerbook?

[gear02]

I ordered mine from amazon on Wednesday and apparently they tried to deliver it today, but apparently no one was home. I use the word apparently because I'M HERE YOU DOLTS! GIVE ME MY IBOOK NOW!!!!!

Well I do live in an apartment complex and the front office closed at 6 and they APPARENTLY tried to deliver at 6:17.

I also got my crucial memory today. Pretty damn small...Ribitch, you better check this forum occasionally tomorrow because you might have a post with me screaming "AHHHHHHHH!!! I SCREWED UP MY IBOOK WHILE INSTALLING THIS %@(%* RAM!"

Anyway, me happy!

[ribitch]

Originally posted by gear02

I also got my crucial memory today. Pretty damn small...Ribitch, you better check this forum occasionally tomorrow because you might have a post with me screaming "AHHHHHHHH!!! I SCREWED UP MY IBOOK WHILE INSTALLING THIS %@(%* RAM!"

Anyway, me happy!

LOL, its pretty easy. just make sure you have a small phillips screwdriver to remove the cover plate on the RAM. The last one i worked on had the plate on pretty tight and the screwdriver was pretty dull, so i kinda stripped the head of one screw. I'm sure you wont have any problems with it.

the ram is actually a standardized so-dimm that most laptops use. i have a 32 MB one around someplace.

if you have any questions, problems, concerns, just email me at [email protected]

i will do my best to help answer your questions.

enjoy the laptop!!

[CluelessSi]

Cool... haha i guess amazon with pre-configs are faster.... o well.. apple says like 6-7 days or so.. i wonder if that includes shipping :shrug: anyway i need to install ram too hehe.....will be here first =P


o yea so what about my question on Labview?

[ribitch]

ordered wed around 11:330 PM EST shipped last night from taiwan. we went with the 2-5 day shipping so it shouldnt be too long

labview is available for mac, but i have never used it. i really dont know much more beyond that. i have used the PC verssion several times

[gear02]

Stupid UPS. I forgot they don't deliver on Saturday....grrrrrr

[gear02]

This is very odd...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000068IE6/002-6419423-8825669

I ordered this item from Amazon on Wednesday for $1394. Now it is listed AT AMAZON for $1500 which includes the $100 instant rebate...

I wonder what's up with the change in price...in any case I feel lucky that I ordered earlier.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by gear02
This is very odd...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000068IE6/002-6419423-8825669

I ordered this item from Amazon on Wednesday for $1394. Now it is listed AT AMAZON for $1500 which includes the $100 instant rebate...

I wonder what's up with the change in price...in any case I feel lucky that I ordered earlier.
very nice, i didn't realise u got it for that cheap,,, haha should have did it with ya =) o well i got 30gb hd airport upgrade on mine..

[gear02]

YAY!!!! GOT MY IBOOK!!!!!


Now I'm just downloading patches and upgrades =)

Ribitch? How do I share files from my PC to my ibook?

[gear02]

Another question. I have my mail and address book in Outlook (not express). How do I import that into my ibook's address book and email, and possibly into Entourage?

[CluelessSi]

how is the your ibook? yea i want to know how to move my address book also, is outlood for the Mac better then whatever program they have for you? I personally am very use to the MS office suite.

Are there a lot of upgrades and patches.. i have to take note to do that, and sign up for the 10.2 upgrade.. how is the smaller screen size? I just thought about it the other day and was wondering what resolution i would put it at since I do use a lot of chat programs and stuff that might take up space on screen :P

[gear02]

The ibook is great. I love it. The screen is just right, though it needs getting used to compared to my 19 inch desktop display.

There's an easy auto updater for apple that pretty much gets everything. I had to get the IE upgrade and iTunes 3 by myself, though it will be in 10.2.

I've read a lot that Office .X is BETTER than Office XP can ever be. I'm getting it tonight so I'll let you know how it is.

Btw I read that you can import vfiles into mail and address book in mac. Well, outlook can import vfiles as well, but it can't export them. What a crock. Stupid microsoft.

[ribitch]

gear02,
email me with an address you check often. My email is [email protected]

I was looking for a way to export to mail/entourage, and could only find a way using outlook express. apparently MS doesnt want you to be able to export vcf's for some reason.

export to some sort of file that outlook express can import. then reexport using the instructions at http://www.apple.com/switch/howto/pc/email.html

that will tell you how to export. then transfer to the iBook, and follow these:

http://www.apple.com/switch/howto/mac/email.html


Office X is very nice. Office for mac has features that the PC counterpart will adopt in the next release. i dont know if its because office was originnally designed for the mac, or if the mac business unit (MacBU) is on the ball with things.

best way to transfer files before jaguar (10.2) would be using Dave or ftp. Dave costs money, so i would find a "test drive" version since you will be upgrading to jaguar and not needing it in a few weeks.

Updates are easy using Software Update. i dont know why itunes 3 or IE 5.2.x isnt on it yet.

my sister got her iBook today. she ordered direct from apple and it came extremely fast.

I hope you enjoy the new systems. email me with any questions. I will do my best to answer them

[CluelessSi]

Do you guys know a way to synch certain files between the laptop and the desktop? i think windows has a breifcase, i never used it so not sure if it does what I want, but i wonder if it works with the mac also.

cool, i hope to get my ibook in these few days, I am still concerned about when the new ipod is shipped, if any one gets a ship confirmation tell me then i can just change the address of the ipod so that it can get shipped here instead of my school...

[gear02]

OK i need your help. I can't figure out what this cable that came with the ibook is for.

I have a power adapter for the ibook and a phone cord. The mystery cable looks to be a power cable for something, but I don't see a plug that fits it. The end is made out of the same material as the ibook. Any ideas?

[i6s1]

AV cable? Is the end kind of flat and long, like an oversized USB? It may be the old AV cable, although I wouldn't know why they would put one in there.

[gear02]

nono...the other end of the plug is a standard power plug.

[CluelessSi]

hmmm.. have not gotten mine yet so can't tell ya... prolly converter cable or something like that... take a pic and post

[ribitch]

its an extension to the ac adaptor. the ends are interchangable. one allows you to plug the square part into the wall, and the other lets you douible the length.

[CluelessSi]

does your ibook come with any anti-virus software?
arggg.. my ibook not shipped yet =( it has been 7 regular days.. i think they mean 7 business days though... i will try calling them tmw...

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
does your ibook come with any anti-virus software?
arggg.. my ibook not shipped yet =( it has been 7 regular days.. i think they mean 7 business days though... i will try calling them tmw...

ha, thats a good one. apples are far less prone to virus infections than a windows machine. the .mac subscription comes with virus protection, but the laptop doesnt ship with it.

i have norton system works for mac, and it has an antivirus program. i tried installing it, and the virus library only had about 4,000 total virii.

i do not keep the virus protection turned on. its not relly needed. Many mac users are complaining about the .mac containing a virus scanner saying its unneeded.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by ribitch


ha, thats a good one. apples are far less prone to virus infections than a windows machine. the .mac subscription comes with virus protection, but the laptop doesnt ship with it.

i have norton system works for mac, and it has an antivirus program. i tried installing it, and the virus library only had about 4,000 total virii.

i do not keep the virus protection turned on. its not relly needed. Many mac users are complaining about the .mac containing a virus scanner saying its unneeded.
true but u never know, i rather be safe and have something running just incase a group decided to target Mac instead of Windows :P

[ribitch]

Originally posted by DarkFury

Probably cause "hax0rs" feel that it is a waste of time to even bother writing a Mac virus...

(Oops.. did I say that out loud? :eek: :hehehmm: )

*cough* more secure less flawed os*cough*

[gear02]

I just received an email saying my 20Gig Ipod got shipped. I popped in the tracking number and it says it's being shipped from Taiwan...hehehe interesting...

[ribitch]

my sisters ibook shipped from there. the ipods have started to become available at apple stores. I am stillw aiting to find out what i am getting. Hopefully a 20 gb one.

[CluelessSi]

cool, i wonder if i should cahnge my shipping address since i will be here for 2 more weeks....

anyway I want to ask since OS9 and OSX uses different file formats how can i delete OS9 and make sure i have all the space back caus I want to run it in the unix format (forgot name)

[CluelessSi]

in addition to my question about how to format and if need to format, how would i chk the format also chk things like ram installed and system speed cause I want to make sure i installed the ram correctly

[gear02]

Don't know how to format yet. But when I deleted OS9 I just trashed the applications and system folder for OS9. You can tell which is which since the folders' icon show OS9 while those for OSX have a big X on them.

To find out if you installed your RAM ok, just go to the apple and click on about this computer. It'll tell you how much RAM you have installed.

[hapoo]

Originally posted by ribitch


*cough* more secure less flawed os*cough*


I love how mac users always walk around like their $#!^ don't stink whenever something new (thats been out for the pc for years) comes out for the mac.

Heres teh reason why there are few mac viruses... most of the users are too busy running photoshop benchmarks. :P :D

[hapoo]

Originally posted by gear02
I just received an email saying my 20Gig Ipod got shipped. I popped in the tracking number and it says it's being shipped from Taiwan...hehehe interesting...


how much did you pay for it gear02? The usual $499 or the student discounted $469?
To bad its out of my price range or else i'd order one right now, all the competitors have 20gig players in the 250-350 range.

[gear02]

Student Discounted

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by gear02
Don't know how to format yet. But when I deleted OS9 I just trashed the applications and system folder for OS9. You can tell which is which since the folders' icon show OS9 while those for OSX have a big X on them.

To find out if you installed your RAM ok, just go to the apple and click on about this computer. It'll tell you how much RAM you have installed.
is it formated with the HPS or the Unix format already? i just don't wnat to delete OS9 and not know that there is space on my drive that i am not taking advantage of =P

I ordered on student discount the 10gb iPod, figured the extra space i can just get a firewire drive or something if need be.. prolly no need thoguh =P

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi

is it formated with the HPS or the Unix format already? i just don't wnat to delete OS9 and not know that there is space on my drive that i am not taking advantage of =P

I ordered on student discount the 10gb iPod, figured the extra space i can just get a firewire drive or something if need be.. prolly no need thoguh =P

HFS. You will reclaim that space onbce its deleted. I am still hesitant to delete 9 since not all apps use X thus far. I hate 9 so much. Once 10.2 is out, 9 will more than likely be gone.

as a response to the desperate attempts to flame, I never said mac didnt have its flaws.

more secure - ships with apache, not IIS. Apache runs on majority of webservers in use today. netcraft (http://www.netcraft.com/survey/) Apache is also less prone to virii, trojans, and things of that nature.

open source - OS X is darwin. Darwin is an open source variant of FreeBSD. The GUI of OS X is only on mac, but the core can be run on x86 and downloaded from apple. darwin (http://www.opensource.apple.com/projects/darwin/1.4/release.html) Making windows open source is one of the dumbest things we could do. Many more security holes can possibly be uncovered, and thus putting many buiness's at risk.

i agree with DF, "man made can be broken". windows are just easier to break in my opinion. I like mac, some members of this board are trying mac, some like linux, and many other members like Windows. Plain and simple. This thread was flame free for a long time, and hopefully will stay that way. Arguing more on this isnt going to change anyones mind. Use what you want.

[CluelessSi]

=) thanks, so just delete the folder then the HFS system will be no more? how can i chk to make sure that the format is correct (unix based one i forgot acrynom)
haha yea i used windows and unix usually but have done mac when i was young, felt like trying it again, you know any good computer person should know all the systems =)
FreeBSD is unix based or...? haha sorry not very familiar with the types of unix out there... only used motif

[ribitch]

Originally posted by CluelessSi
=) thanks, so just delete the folder then the HFS system will be no more? how can i chk to make sure that the format is correct (unix based one i forgot acrynom)
haha yea i used windows and unix usually but have done mac when i was young, felt like trying it again, you know any good computer person should know all the systems =)
FreeBSD is unix based or...? haha sorry not very familiar with the types of unix out there... only used motif

HFS is used by default. I have not tried UFS since i was using the original beta of X. For best results, use the HFS.

FreeBSD is a variant of BSD, Darwin is another variant of BSD. Read this article that explains it abit more http://www.applelust.com/alust/terminal/archives/terminal041202.shtml

[gear02]

tee hee hee...my ipod got delivered! I want to go home now and play with it...

no wait...I want lunch first...then ipod =)

[CluelessSi]

Nice!!! I want my iPod.. funny how others deliver faster then Apple does =/


anyway so UFS is not recommended? I heard it is faster then HFS. also is there a way to change the system without having to install all the things again? Should I wait for 10.2 to put on UFS? how can i check which file system it is using?

[gear02]

no actually, my ipod was ordered from apple direct.

[CluelessSi]

Originally posted by gear02
no actually, my ipod was ordered from apple direct.


arrgg... why mine not here yet =(