Oriental/Asian... Is one bad?

[WhiskeyPapa]

From Fox News:


State and local officials in Washington are now barred by law from using the term "Oriental" in any statutes, codes, rules and regulations, reports The Seattle Times. Instead, officials must use "Asian" to describe people of Asian descent.

The law, a first in the country, substitutes the word in one existing statute about minority contractors and prevents its use going forward. It is limited to references to human beings, however, so a statute mentioning "oriental medicine or oriental herbology" gets to stay.

"It's pejorative terminology,” the bill’s sponsor, Democratic state Sen. Paull Shin, said of the term. “It's offensive."

U.S. Rep. Michael Honda, D-Calif., is said to be considering introducing a similar bill in Congress next year.

Now, I'm just a backwater white guy from the midwest, but I didn't know "Oriental" was derogatory. Is it? Too me, it's kind of like "caucasian" and "white" - they both are fine with me, one is just a little more "technical".

[ribitch]

Originally posted by kb0wwp


Now, I'm just a backwater white guy from the midwest, but I didn't know "Oriental" was derogatory. Is it? Too me, it's kind of like "caucasian" and "white" - they both are fine with me, one is just a little more "technical".

I agree. Oriental means originating from the orient, or far east. Nothing racists about it.

As a side note, Where the hell is caucasia?

[WhiskeyPapa]

Originally posted by ribitch
As a side note, Where the hell is caucasia?
The earliest definitive evidence for Indo-Europeans can be found in Mesopotamian and Egyptian written records and are referred to as immigrants from beyond the Caucasus Mountains.

I cut and pasted that. The Caucasus Mountains are considered the boundary between Europe and Asia, located between the Black and Caspian seas.

[jase71]

Originally posted by ribitch


As a side note, Where the hell is caucasia?

It's a magical land that stretches from Green Bay, Wisconsin in the east... through northern Minnesota, and into North Dakota.

You'll know you're there by the lingo... you'll hear timeless phrases like "Yassir, you betcha", "Nice day, and so?", and "Uff Da".

Cuisine is a culinary delight, where butter, cream, and salt are the only allowed spices. Most dishes contain jello, and are made in a mold. The lone exception would be bars of some sort, or open-face sandwiches.

The name of the land comes from the exceedingly pale nature of the people. With 13 months of winter each year, they seldom see sunlight, and when they do, it's usually a sign that it's too cold to snow, so they stay inside and crochet Christmas presents for their friends and relatives.

[revil]

Originally posted by ribitch
I agree. Oriental means originating from the orient, or far east. Nothing racists about it.

What is wrong with the people who run our country? Pretty soon, we won't be able to say toast; instead we will have to say heated crispy bread.

[Jihforce]

Oriental its usually referred to inanimate objects such as pottery or rugs. Whereas the word Asian is used to describe a living breathing human being.
Also, caucausian isn't equivalent to oriental. Mongoloid would be more appropriate. But then again, it sounds really retarded if you ask me.
I personally would prefer to be regarded as an Asian male rather than Oriental. But I wouldn't exactly take offense to it.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by kb0wwp

The earliest definitive evidence for Indo-Europeans can be found in Mesopotamian and Egyptian written records and are referred to as immigrants from beyond the Caucasus Mountains.

I cut and pasted that. The Caucasus Mountains are considered the boundary between Europe and Asia, located between the Black and Caspian seas.

Really? I didn't know that...I always thought they where just "cocky" asians :P

[mcs328]

I like asian. I hate Oriental...I hear it described to me and I get this chill up my spine and a bad feeling in my gut. I have no problem like an Oriental rug (except when it was used in that song to describe how the group described asian women as an oriental rug to lay on and blinfolding them with floss)

I think using Oriental to describe ppl is outdated for todays time...I think of it like using Colored to describe African-American.

My two cents.

[sbp]

Originally posted by revil


What is wrong with the people who run our country? Pretty soon, we won't be able to say toast; instead we will have to say heated crispy bread. Both "toast" and "heated crispy bread" are shockingly insensitive to Tasty Ensign frenchbread (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=6482).

[Windsor]

Originally posted by mcs328
I like asian. I hate Oriental...I hear it described to me and I get this chill up my spine and a bad feeling in my gut. I have no problem like an Oriental rug (except when it was used in that song to describe how the group described asian women as an oriental rug to lay on and blinfolding them with floss)

I think using Oriental to describe ppl is outdated for todays time...I think of it like using Colored to describe African-American.

My two cents.

Quality Asian Rugs! Yeehaw!

[frenchbread]

Originally posted by sbp
Both "toast" and "heated crispy bread" are shockingly insensitive to Tasty Ensign frenchbread (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=6482).
:bawl: I'm glad somebody is sticking up for me. :bandit:

As for you revil, vengence will be mine! My people do not like your kind! :pfft:

[NuTs62]

I think I'd hafta agree with Jihforce's explanation. I've never been called Oriental. Inanimate things such as... hmm.. The Orient.. Bank of Orient. Oriental Trading Company.. Oriental Rugs.. But I almost never hear anyone referred to as Orientals.. Though I'm not sure why, but to me, it does seem a lil weird if not offensive if someone referred to me as "Oriental"..

[Speedfreak]

Originally posted by sbp
Both "toast" and "heated crispy bread" are shockingly insensitive to Tasty Ensign


Yes, but I like one of the fathers of "toast" or "heated crispy bread"... Whitebread (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=6479)

[WhiskeyPapa]

Originally posted by Jihforce
Oriental its usually referred to inanimate objects such as pottery or rugs. Whereas the word Asian is used to describe a living breathing human being.

Thanks, Jihforce, that is a good explaination. I can understand that much better than Sen. Paull Shin's reasoning.

[Cheesypuff]

Hey...I'm asian...And I really don't care what the hezzies anybody calls me. You can call my yours for all I care!!!:P

[ribitch]

Originally posted by Speedfreak



Yes, but I like one of the fathers of "toast" or "heated crispy bread"... Whitebread (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=6479)

that last thread that dude started was hillarious. What balls. Damn.

Does GAM block the IP or the username? I am curious if he/she/it ever came back as something else

[attgig]

Originally posted by NuTs62
I think I'd hafta agree with Jihforce's explanation. I've never been called Oriental. Inanimate things such as... hmm.. The Orient.. Bank of Orient. Oriental Trading Company.. Oriental Rugs.. But I almost never hear anyone referred to as Orientals.. Though I'm not sure why, but to me, it does seem a lil weird if not offensive if someone referred to me as "Oriental"..

Yeah, people don't call me Oriental anymore..

they say...
you Chineeese?
(no, Korean)
You Japaneeeese?
(no, Korean).
You must be Chineeese, look at ya.

[ribitch]

how can i get this avatar?

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/avatar.php?userid=6479&dateline=1002775468

when you click the whitebread link, he had it. And he had very few posts. Is it because he was banned? Sorry this has nothing to do with the thread, but i didnt want to start a new one for this question

[attgig]

Originally posted by Speedfreak



Yes, but I like one of the fathers of "toast" or "heated crispy bread"... Whitebread (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=6479)

sigh, takes me back to the days of me and Kim..... sniff sniff.... :bawl:

them good 'ol days.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by kb0wwp


Thanks, Jihforce, that is a good explaination. I can understand that much better than Sen. Paull Shin's reasoning.

No problem.
Back in college, we went to a Asian Club and they were discussing that issue and that was the explanation they came up with.

[NuTs62]

Originally posted by ribitch
how can i get this avatar?

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/avatar.php?userid=6479&dateline=1002775468

when you click the whitebread link, he had it. And he had very few posts. Is it because he was banned? Sorry this has nothing to do with the thread, but i didnt want to start a new one for this question

i dont know how many posts whitebread may have.. but usually you need 2000 posts to get a custom avatar. :)

[xsiled2]

Originally posted by ribitch
Where the hell is caucasia?

i want to go to the mother land to...


Originally posted by ribitch
how can i get this avatar?

so you admit it....

[molecularfire]

Hmmm... actually, I'm of mixed chinese and vietnamese descent and I prefer the term oriental. I've never thought of it as inanimate objects versus living things. I've always thought that orientals was a better term than asians because it's more accurate. Asia includes more countries just china, korea, japan, vietnam, etc... Asia includes the old Soviet Union, India, etc... none of whose citizens are called asians. I just don't find the term asian all that accurate. I prefer to be called chinese, vietnamese, oriental, or southeast asian. I understand that a lot of people out there can't tell a korean from a japanese or different chinese people apart. (To be honest, I have trouble sometimes telling mexicans from some of the other countries in central and south america. I call them hispanics). I prefer that people call me southeast asian or oriental. Asian just isn't accurate. :shrug:

[xsiled2]

"hispanic" isnt always correct either, what about people from portugal, they arnt hispanic.

i cant remember ever saying oriental or asian as a term for a person, but i agree oriental is more correct.

[Got Apex Moderator]

Originally posted by ribitch
Does GAM block the IP or the username? I am curious if he/she/it ever came back as something else Whatever it takes. ;)


how can i get this avatar?

http://www.gotapex.com/forums/avatar.php?userid=6479&dateline=1002775468

when you click the whitebread link, he had it. And he had very few posts. Is it because he was banned? Sorry this has nothing to do with the thread, but i didnt want to start a new one for this question That is the avatar used for trolls.

[attgig]

Originally posted by molecularfire
Hmmm... actually, I'm of mixed chinese and vietnamese descent and I prefer the term oriental. I've never thought of it as inanimate objects versus living things. I've always thought that orientals was a better term than asians because it's more accurate. Asia includes more countries just china, korea, japan, vietnam, etc... Asia includes the old Soviet Union, India, etc... none of whose citizens are called asians. I just don't find the term asian all that accurate. I prefer to be called chinese, vietnamese, oriental, or southeast asian. I understand that a lot of people out there can't tell a korean from a japanese or different chinese people apart. (To be honest, I have trouble sometimes telling mexicans from some of the other countries in central and south america. I call them hispanics). I prefer that people call me southeast asian or oriental. Asian just isn't accurate. :shrug:


How bout Asian/Pacific Islander?
that's pretty specific....

[Jihforce]

Asian is a generic term, so is Oriental. If you want to get into specifics then yeah, it would be more appropriate to be called based on your nationality. But most won't because its difficult to tell sometimes. The term Asian doesn't include Russians or Indians for some reason. I guess its because they have their own distintive traits that separate them from most other Asian countries.

[SilverKJ]

yea, so one of my aunts told me a story about the origins of the word oriental a long time ago.

she said that when people from the west first came to the east, they stereotyped all the indigeneous asian populations. [this is similar to the contemporary habit of people automatically assuming that you're chinese even if you're korean/japanese/etc.etc. simply because of skin tone.] so those first white pioneers, not understanding the eastern culture and behavior, ridiculed the eastern people and called them disoriented. [maybe something to do with the women who had bound feet, and walked funny? dunno] from the word disoriented, the term Oriental was then derived to describe asians.

so that's basically the reason why some people take offense to the term oriental because of it's negative origin.

while i am chinese, i think that most people nowadays dunno where the word oriental came from, and thus dun mind if people call me oriental. but i can see why others might take offense. probably, similar to how some african americans dislike to be called by some terms, b/c of the terms' roots in slavery.

[molecularfire]

How bout Asian/Pacific Islander?

That's fine also. However, the term Pacific Islander by itself mean a totally different thing. I remember a friend of mine was from Taiwan and she was filling out her school applications as Pacific Islanders because it would increase her chances of getting into some school.


she said that when people from the west first came to the east, they stereotyped all the indigeneous asian populations. [this is similar to the contemporary habit of people automatically assuming that you're chinese even if you're korean/japanese/etc.etc. simply because of skin tone.] so those first white pioneers, not understanding the eastern culture and behavior, ridiculed the eastern people and called them disoriented. [maybe something to do with the women who had bound feet, and walked funny? dunno] from the word disoriented, the term Oriental was then derived to describe asians.

That I didn't know. However, since I highly doubt that the people that call me oriental know that either, it doesn't bother me. :shrug: Anyways, what's in the past is in the past. I would mind someone calling me by my name if they meant in a derogatory way, while at the same time, I've had my friends call me some pretty mean things in jest and that doesn't bother me at all. It's the intent, not the words that I care about. :)




"hispanic" isnt always correct either, what about people from portugal, they arnt hispanic

Yeah, but I can usually spot the people from Spain and Portugal because their language is different. :)

[Nanotech9]

caucasian is to white

as

asian is to yellow (or something similar - maybe slant-eyes? or something?)

and as

afro-american is to black

and as

hispanic is to tanned

and as

american indian is to redskin

.....

basically the only non-offensive term above on the right is "white"... although in comparison it to should be just as offensive as teh other names are on the right.... or should anyone be offended by any of the names on the right? maybe we should all grow a little thicker skin?

(yeah i'm white - and i used to get called "yankee" by the spanish all teh time for 10 years - and over there that is definitely derrogatory, but it didnt hurt me any now did it?

[xsiled2]

Originally posted by molecularfire
Yeah, but I can usually spot the people from Spain and Portugal because their language is different. :)

wouldnt you have to know spanish to tell the difference, plus that difference isonly a few words and a form of conjugation....

[sbp]

The answer to the question is no-neither Oriental or Asian is bad. Next question please.

[Nanotech9]

wrong.

i'm quite fluent in spanish (10 years living in spain) and portugese is not something i can just start speaking...

i worked with a guy that spoke portugese, adn he helped me learn a lot, but not enough to converse much at all when i went down to brasil for a trade show. its a lot more different than people would think.

[revil]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
(yeah i'm white - and i used to get called "yankee" by the spanish all teh time for 10 years - and over there that is definitely derrogatory, but it didnt hurt me any now did it?
Damn yank! hehe, I smile whenever someone calls me a Yankee, I think it's the funniest thing. i think to my self, "is that the best you can come up with? damnit, someone has to teach you how to insult."

Did you know in japan, or at least for the school kids (don't know about the rest of japanese society), the term Yankee is used for ugly people?

anyways, I was just sitting here imagining someone calling an asian person oriental and i just can't stop laughing. here is the scenario running over in my head:

Guy1: YOU.. YOU ORIENTAL!
Guy2: :GASP: Wha, What did you just say?!
Me: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ok, i don't know if this post made any sense. I just woke up from a nap and I grabbed a bottle of booze and started to type.

[MadCool]

Hmmm Our site is called KKDiscount.com: Oriental SuperStore.. Should I change it to Asian SuperStore? :confused:

[Memo]

They're both bad :dodgy:

[revil]

Originally posted by UT Memo
They're both bad :dodgy:
:umm: racist cracker. :disa:

[WhiskeyPapa]

Originally posted by SilverKJ
yea, so one of my aunts told me a story about the origins of the word oriental a long time ago...

The term "Orient" dates back to the 14th century, is from the Latin root oriri ("to rise") and means simply "east".

The suffix "-al" means "of, or relating to".

So "Oriental" means "of, or relating to the east".

That makes much more sense to me.

[ribitch]

Originally posted by UT Memo
They're both bad :dodgy:

so how would you describe the people that are from the far east?
,

[molecularfire]

Originally posted by xsiled2


wouldnt you have to know spanish to tell the difference, plus that difference isonly a few words and a form of conjugation....

It's racist to assume that an oriental person can't speak spanish. :P

I'm not super fluent in spanish, but I can get by ok. That and the vosotros (sp?) form is not really minor. I can pick it out of speech when people use it. Portugeese sounds different enough from spanish that I can pick it out (it's more of a difference than the difference between cantoneese and mandarin or fuchinese, etc...).
:)

[ChahSiuBow]

Originally posted by kb0wwp


The term "Orient" dates back to the 14th century, is from the Latin root oriri ("to rise") and means simply "east".

The suffix "-al" means "of, or relating to".

So "Oriental" means "of, or relating to the east".

That makes much more sense to me.


You can't exactly take the etymology of a word and take it face value for what it's suppose to mean. Words get construed over time. Like 'cracker'. The term means: A thin crisp wafer or biscuit, usually made of unsweetened dough. But if I were to call you that, you would be offended, right? 'Oriental' was used to describe anyone with slanty eyes who weren't American or European or whatever. It was used to alienate Asians, and discredit them by not acknowledging a country or landmass of origin (Asian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, etc.). Though it is a bit offensive to me, but more politically incorrect than anything else.

To further clear things up, here's a bit taken straight off dictionary.com:
"Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Orientalmeaning “eastern”is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable."

[revil]

Originally posted by ChahSiuBow
Words get construed over time. Like 'cracker'. The term means: A thin crisp wafer or biscuit, usually made of unsweetened dough. But if I were to call you that, you would be offended, right?
I don't know about all the other crackers, but i have laughed my ass off anytime someone has said that to me. I think it's the funniest "offensive" word there is.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by revil

I don't know about all the other crackers, but i have laughed my ass off anytime someone has said that to me. I think it's the funniest "offensive" word there is.
:stupid: i find racial terms referring to whites to be pretty funny. however, i think whites view it differently, because we don't have the negative connotations connected with racial slurs.

i mean, when the majority uses a racial slur against a minority it is oppressing, it's saying "i think you are worthless, and so i will use this pejorative to prove that i regard you as sub-human".

on the other hand, when a racial slur is used against a member of the majority, it's more just an insult, like "i think you're stupid" or "i don't like you". if you don't care what some random person who's yelling "hey, ya f---ing cracker" thinks about you, then it's like "whatever. big deal".

my point is, while i don't care if people use a racially loaded word against me, i'm not necessarily a good judge of whether racial terms in general are offensive or not (and i also realize that revil wasn't trying to say that racial terms aren't offensive -- i was just trying to comment further on the issue, based on what he said)

[molecularfire]

Originally posted by whitak24

:stupid: i find racial terms referring to whites to be pretty funny. however, i think whites view it differently, because we don't have the negative connotations connected with racial slurs.

i mean, when the majority uses a racial slur against a minority it is oppressing, it's saying "i think you are worthless, and so i will use this pejorative to prove that i regard you as sub-human".

on the other hand, when a racial slur is used against a member of the majority, it's more just an insult, like "i think you're stupid" or "i don't like you". if you don't care what some random person who's yelling "hey, ya f---ing cracker" thinks about you, then it's like "whatever. big deal".

my point is, while i don't care if people use a racially loaded word against me, i'm not necessarily a good judge of whether racial terms in general are offensive or not (and i also realize that revil wasn't trying to say that racial terms aren't offensive -- i was just trying to comment further on the issue, based on what he said)

Nah... I think it was the efforts of Chris Rock that makes the term cracker cool. :D

[IntegraTypeR]

just my 2 cents...

i hate the word Oriental when it is used to describe people but i don't think that it is that bad where it needs to be banned. i plainly dont agree w/the law. it is yet another bureaucratic piece of jargon that doesnt really need to exist

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by kb0wwp


The term "Orient" dates back to the 14th century, is from the Latin root oriri ("to rise") and means simply "east".

The suffix "-al" means "of, or relating to".

So "Oriental" means "of, or relating to the east".

That makes much more sense to me.

Bingo. Oriental is the antonym of Occidental. Oriental means Eastern, Occidental means Western. All of my Asian friends who do not like the term Oriental when refering to people dislike it because it is a term usually associated with in-animate objects, as Jiforce pointed out.

As for a word being "bad" or not, I think it is all in the connotation... Hmmm, maybe we could all put our heads together and think up a inoffensive term to refer to people from the Niger River valley... :hmm:

Anyway, I will continue refering to the Asian people I know as Asian, and if you are okay being called Oriental, that's fine, but you won't hear it out of me.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Originally posted by ChahSiuBow
You can't exactly take the etymology of a word and take it face value for what it's suppose to mean.

I think you assume I was defending the use of the term "Oriental" as used to describe a person. Not at all, I was just responding to a previous post, describing a more dubious origin of the word.

[sbp]

If this sh1t keeps up, you have to wonder what will be left that is ok to be said.

The fact this passed overwhelming shows how much this political correctness crap is pandered to. Then some idiot politician may waste time introducing a bill in Congress over this bs.

from The Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=134485582&zsection_id=268448406&slug=noslur01m&date=20020701)

The lame politician who sponsored this bs, state Sen. Paull Shin, D-Edmonds whined out: "We don't appreciate that," he said. "It's pejorative terminology. It's offensive."

Boohoo! :bawl: Everything now "pejorative terminology". :rolleyes:

The law immediately reforms only a lone statute that requires the solicitation of minority contractors for construction of city water mains.

And therein lies the problem. People are being solicitated and getting hired on the basis of race. This is discriminatory to people of the non-favored groups.

This whole "minority" business is a nonsense also. The word is thrown around like people are victims on account of race.

What something in life? Get out there and work for it like everyone else does. Don't expect any special considerations on account of race.