It's always the black guy isn't it????

[oblongmelon]

This past weekend not too far from my home a New York State Sherrif Deputy was shot and killed and then shot some more and then run over with a stolen vehicle by the perpetrators..Link if interested (http://www.pressconnects.com/today/topstories/stories/to070802s4239.shtml)
IMMEDIATELY the local police issued a picture of a black man who they wanted to "speak" to in connection with the shooting..OF COURSE saying he was not "wanted" but they only wanted to ask him some questions..well we all know what that means right??? Every single black male in the area was getting "the look --> :hmm: "..Come to find out the guys who actually committed the crime WERE ALL WHITE.and not just WHITE but WHITE TRASH with past criminal records..I get so pissed when this happens..a few years back some off duty policemen were sitting in a bar when a young black woman walked past on her way home-these drunk officers felt they had to go outside and harrass her-she quickly ran upstairs and got her father who proceeded to come downstairs with a hammer..needless to say he was jumped by 9 white off duty cops and got the crap kicked out of him..in the interim of it all he got a few good swings of that hammer in and wacked one particular idiot in the head-making a long story very very short ..this cop got to retire with FULL BENEFITS using the excuse that he has permanant brain damage now..the black guy was arrested, sent to jail, sued by the cops and is spending time in prison as we speak..all because he was defending his own daughter..they say he "used a deadly weapon"..BAH...the worst part is..I happen to be very good friends with the cop who got the whack to the head and if anything it made him smarter..funny, he can't work, but he can still go sit in that bar..the cops in my area are all old schoolmates of mine and they absolutely HATE black people..they are the biggest bunch of bigoted pigs I've ever met in my life..99% of them are drunks and the rest still smoke pot on their days off..I just don't get it.

[Hiro]

Originally posted by DarkFury
That kinda reminds me of the time when that lady drowned her kids and basically told everyone that a "black guy" had hijacked her car and kidnapped her kids... and of course for a moment the "authorities" went along with that "story".

Oh well.. at least they caught the right people before too many "brothas" had to take a trip downtown to answer some "questions". :2far:
:stupid:

[MJordanash]

I cant stand racist people. I just dont understand why they have to be so close minded. Then again I am not into the white power, or black trip either. Just equal rights and such works for me.

[Hiro]

When I was younger and in elementary school I lived in an area that was predominantly Mexican and African American. At my school there were only three white children. A week never went by that I didn't get the **** kicked out of me because I was considered a skin-head. Yea, I am a skin-head at the age of eight to 10.

Great child-hood years I had at that school.

[cruelpupet]

Originally posted by DarkFury
That kinda reminds me of the time when that lady drowned her kids and basically told everyone that a "black guy" had hijacked her car and kidnapped her kids... and of course for a moment the "authorities" went along with that "story".

Oh well.. at least they caught the right people before too many "brothas" had to take a trip downtown to answer some "questions". :2far:

it goes both ways...


that reminds me of a story where a black girl ran away from hom ethen decided to pretend she was kidnapped by a white guy and had Rev Al Sharpton defendign her story

Tawana Brawley

[cruelpupet]

Originally posted by DarkFury
Now this kind of stuff happens... however this time, there was a guy across the street that caught it all on tape...




the unfortuante thing is they hire the wrong people for the job many times, so **** like that happens.

[Memo]

You can't blame the police. When the police get a tip and that is their only lead at first then they will release a photo hoping to catch the suspect. The important thing is the police caught the ****ers who did it and they did their job. Spend your time getting mad at **** that really matters.

[eSDee]

Originally posted by cruelpupet


it goes both ways...


that reminds me of a story where a black girl ran away from hom ethen decided to pretend she was kidnapped by a white guy and had Rev Al Sharpton defendign her story

Tawana Brawley

And that happened what, 15 years ago? :rolleyes:

There is no excuse for a police officer to punch a suspect who is already in custody. There are times when excessive force is needed to control a suspect who is out of control, but after he or she is hancuffed, it's gotta stop right there. In the case that DarkFury posted, the officer should be fired. If he's gonna haul off on someone like that in broad daylight, in a public place, and after the suspect is already hancuffed, well let's say that I would not want to be pulled over for speeding late at night by that facist. Get him off the force immediately.

I've always been taught to be tolerant of ignorant people. However when the ignorant person has a gun and the ability to make "judgement calls" on when to use excessive violence, I'm sorry but he's got to get the hell outta my police department. His judgement cannot be trusted anymore. I believe it's a one shot deal, no pun intended.

[Showtime]

Back in the early 90's we used to have these big club promotions at dance halls etc. A popular theme was "stop the violence," basically being cool with one another and stop gang banging. Usually people were cool and even the "gangstas" would chill.
One of the last ones I went to was in O.C. at a hall. The cops came and broke it up and were telling people to leave. It was dark just a couple of dj lights going. A couple of black guys were walking out and this cop shoves one for no reason. The black guy pulls back and spread out his arms to express "whats up!"
He saw it was a cop and put his hands down to avoid trouble.
The cop grabs him and throws him on the ground. I was like thats f!@#ed up! At this point the other cops all jump him.
This young man is on the floor being tossed around and is naturally struggling with 3 or 4 cops around him and the one who started it outside the ring getting in cheap shots. The remaining cops surrounded the beating. That rat bastard cop was, as far as i could see, trying to hit the black guy in the nuts with his fist but kept missing. The cops looked at us and basically dared anyone to try to stop them.
The guy is trying to remain still his arms are up but the cops keep pushing him so he's moving.
When I saw where this was going, I wanted to try and stop it. We all did but nobody moved. I've been jumped before and was in more fear watching those cops than when I was had been hit myself.
Then it gets ugly, the cop pulls out a mag light and starts hitting him with it. The 1st one I thought I heard and you can see some red. The 2nd swing theres blood dripping down his face and his body is limp. The 3rd swing I heard a "pop" and blood shoots out of his head like 5 feet and he looks dead to me. It was the worst thing i'd ever seen.
Somewhere during this the lights had come on. I dont know when, I just know how vivid the blood was. I can see him bleeding but he's still breathing. They handcuff him and take him away.
The cops just look at us like "what you gonna do about it?"
Theres one black cop and I look at him like you gonna do something about that but he is just a blank wall.
Theres a puddle around 5 feet wide with blood. Hes taken to an ambulence I think.
The club promoter throws a fat bunch of napkins on it and the napkins cant hold it all.
Later on I ask the promoter what happened if there was a case and if the guy needed witnesses but that punk trick kinda dodged the question and said it was being taken care of. I think he didnt want his club having problems with those cops.
I still have nightmares about that and hope that cop burns for what did to that guy.
There'd better be a Heaven because that mf cop needs to go to hell.
-jel

[revil]

Originally posted by EsDeeLoco
There are times when excessive force is needed to control a suspect who is out of control, but after he or she is hancuffed, it's gotta stop right there.
I think you need to take that a little further. A person in handcuffs can still fight. I think the excessive force should stop when the suspect stops resisting.

[oblongmelon]

Originally posted by UT Memo
You can't blame the police. When the police get a tip and that is their only lead at first then they will release a photo hoping to catch the suspect. The important thing is the police caught the ****ers who did it and they did their job. Spend your time getting mad at **** that really matters.
BULL-DONKEY! I am blaming it on the police-they come up with their own "little tips" all the time..these guys here are first class jokes..they did the same thing about 5 years ago when another cop by the name of Lee Barta was shot and killed while investigating a guy who violated his parole...before they new anything they put the word out that it was a black guy that shot him..when they knew all along it was a white guy...they do this CONSTANTLY..the police in this area suck.

[ribitch]

i saw that on cnn yesterday. I wanted to see the video, but they have a subscription service. The guys attourney looks like hes a cheap cheesy lawyer out of the 70's.

Its a shame stuff like this happens. Its sad that the cop suspended is still getting paid even though hes suspended. That is totally wrong.

[Merlin]

Fastest way to get pulled over...Drive an old American car through El Segundo while having the nreve to be black.

I lived there for a short while and saw it everyday. Pretty bad.


The sad thing is the the few good police officers out there are tainted by the majority who are simply bullies and happy they found a legal way to pick fights with people.

After Diogenies finds that honest man he can start looking for a cop without a chip on his shoulder. :disa:

[eSDee]

Originally posted by revil

I think you need to take that a little further. A person in handcuffs can still fight. I think the excessive force should stop when the suspect stops resisting.

Agreed.

[molecularfire]

A couple of things:

1) Simply put, everyone's racist on some level. Heck, I have a friend who is chiese who is afraid to introduce her BF (korean) to her parents. I know them, her fear is NOT unfounded.

2) I'm not a cop, but if someone punched me, I'm not gonna just stop him and leave it at that. One thing I was taught growing up is that you have to do more damage to them than they did to you otherwise, they will do it again next chance they get.

3) A lot of cops are racist, true. So are a lot of other people in other jobs (see statement #1). Also, ask yourself this, why would someone want to be a police officer. You're in danger, you get no respect, and the same people that you are trying to protect are the ones that don't trust or like you. Lets face it, we want cops to stop crimes that we are not committing. The way I figure it, there are three types of people who want to be cops. Those who truly want to help people (I don't envy them when they realize that it's not really possible), those with a chip on their shoulders, and those who like the power trip. There should probably be a fourth section for miscelaneous, but I think you guys get my drift. :)

[revil]

Originally posted by DarkFury
Kinda hard to resist when you've been beaten unconscious...
No no no. I'm talking about when the suspect is using excessive force to get away. weapons, biting, knee in the nuts, etc. if the officer can't subdue them, then it is a problem. if they have to use excessive force to subdue them, so be it.

Now i'm not talking about any of the current events and I'm not sticking up for anyone. I saw the video of that cop punching that kid after they smacked him against against that car. that's just not right. f*ck, if i were that kid, i would have probably snapped right there and start to break knees.

[eSDee]

Originally posted by molecularfire
A couple of things:

1) Simply put, everyone's racist on some level. Heck, I have a friend who is chiese who is afraid to introduce her BF (korean) to her parents. I know them, her fear is NOT unfounded.

2) I'm not a cop, but if someone punched me, I'm not gonna just stop him and leave it at that. One thing I was taught growing up is that you have to do more damage to them than they did to you otherwise, they will do it again next chance they get.

3) A lot of cops are racist, true. So are a lot of other people in other jobs (see statement #1). Also, ask yourself this, why would someone want to be a police officer. You're in danger, you get no respect, and the same people that you are trying to protect are the ones that don't trust or like you. Lets face it, we want cops to stop crimes that we are not committing. The way I figure it, there are three types of people who want to be cops. Those who truly want to help people (I don't envy them when they realize that it's not really possible), those with a chip on their shoulders, and those who like the power trip. There should probably be a fourth section for miscelaneous, but I think you guys get my drift. :)

All interesting points. But number 2 is no attitude that a cop should have.

[Jihforce]

Originally posted by Merlin
Fastest way to get pulled over...Drive an old American car through El Segundo while having the nreve to be black.

I lived there for a short while and saw it everyday. Pretty bad.


The sad thing is the the few good police officers out there are tainted by the majority who are simply bullies and happy they found a legal way to pick fights with people.

After Diogenies finds that honest man he can start looking for a cop without a chip on his shoulder. :disa:

Yup, racial profiling is pretty horrible in El Segundo.
Same goes for Irvine.
One of my friend's friend had some dumb Irvine cop pull a gun on him cuz he was black. He wasn't even driving for crying out loud. Geez.

[oblongmelon]

Today during the church service/funeral for officer Tarsia-his mother had a heart attack and they had to do C.P.R on her for quite a while..I didn't hear if she made it or not. I saw the procession of police/sherrif/fire cars going to the cemetary as they passed right outside the building I work in..the co-workers and I stopped counting after 300. That didn't include the cars of family and friends of the family. Also there were two state police helicopters encircling the cemetary the entire time the procession was advancing to the gravesite..I only watched for 40 minutes and it was still going on when I left..the whole situation is just wrong.

[molecularfire]

All interesting points. But number 2 is no attitude that a cop should have.

I agree. However, cops are human. As long as that remains to be the case, you can't expect them to be above human emotions. Now, if they were robots... then it wouldn't be a problem. Unless they incorporate emotions into AI... then we're screwed.

Actually... I know that I'm asking to get my rear verbally kicked, but what would you guys say to a law that states that if someone attacked a police officer, then it's ok for the police officer to kick the guys rear. Please don't use the argument that it can be misused. Any law out there can be misused. But, lets say that we could know for certainty that someone attacked a cop first. How many people out there would support that? :)

[mojo]

Originally posted by molecularfire


I agree. However, cops are human. As long as that remains to be the case, you can't expect them to be above human emotions. sorry, man...i can't go with you on this one. i worked with adults with developmental disabilities for a number of years. this means i got my face punched and arms bit and scratched a lot of times. at no time did i ever hit them or do anything above and beyond what it actually took to contain the situation. there was no retribution beyond my rough looks (which actually got me some grief at times as well).

if it's part of the job, it's part of the job. if they can't do that, then maybe they should go into the private sector or somewhere that it's more accepted.

and as far as the law of cops kicking butts, i'd say they shouldn't be able to no more than i could. that would make them judge and jury...which is just plain wrong (even if we all knew).

[molecularfire]

and as far as the law of cops kicking butts, i'd say they shouldn't be able to no more than i could. that would make them judge and jury...which is just plain wrong (even if we all knew).

What judge and jury? They're just hitting back to someone who hit them. If someone walked up to me on the street and hit me, I'd hit back. :shrug:


i worked with adults with developmental disabilities for a number of years. this means i got my face punched and arms bit and scratched a lot of times. at no time did i ever hit them or do anything above and beyond what it actually took to contain the situation. there was no retribution beyond my rough looks (which actually got me some grief at times as well).

Ok... I can agree with you on this. If someone has a developmental disability then I wouldn't fight back either except to defend myself. I hadn't thought about that. However, most of the people who hit police officers don't have such a disability. They're just people who are just to selfish to control their temper. The neighborhood in which I grew up had a lot of people who wouldn't think twice about hitting an officer. They would also be the first to complain about any pain that they suffered from police officers. Isn't that kind of a double standard. Heck, I learned growing up that if those people picked on me, I was to give them something back to remember me by. I mean, either ways I was gonna get beat up (they never attack one on one). If I could hurt one of them, then it was much less likely that they would pick on me again. They would usually go trolling for easier prey. I just find it odd that we would hire people to protect us from unsavory characters and expect them to do it in a civil way.


if it's part of the job, it's part of the job. if they can't do that, then maybe they should go into the private sector or somewhere that it's more accepted.

I agree with you here. I'm not arguing legalities of what cops are doing. If they break the law, then they should be punished accordingly. I'm just trying to stimulate debate on whether the system the way we have it set up is right.

[sbp]

Originally posted by DarkFury

I guess... but HOW OFTEN do you hear of stuff like THAT happening.

I think the "opposite scenario" happens alot more often... (like Obby said.. blame it on the "Black man". :2far: ) Not much since the news media gives stealth coverage (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43125) to events like that. Guess they figure no one cares about white folk being attacked. :2far:

[cruelpupet]

There is one other thing i find curious about this whole incident...on all of the news clips ive seen, they never show the whole thing, they only show 20sec wher ethe cop slams him into the car and then punches him.


has anyone seen more footage than that...can anyone verify that the kid was cooperating?

[molecularfire]

Originally posted by DarkFury
So molecularfire... are you saying that a cop's job should be "retaliatory"?

Granted, they are allowed to use force to subdue "criminals", but when should that stop? Should they keep beating and beating on them just cause they feel like it? (At least until their arms and legs feel tired from beatin' on the "perp"?)

Also... what about the "self righteous" cops who feel that since they have that badge, they can say whatever, do whatever to whomever they want? Is that an abuse of power?

What would happen if that cop were to beat down a Black man who was actually a Judge in plain clothes? Especially if the beatdown came as a result of some kind of discriminatory act? What do you think would happen then?

Basically... I'll agree that cops have the right to use force to do their job... however "in the heat of passion" they shouldn't be allowed to go over and above that level of force, just because emotionally they are gettin' even/revenge on a guy... and even worse.. beating someone who doesn't deserve to be beaten.

That's when things REALLY get bad and all the "good cops" get a bad rep! Personally, I think cops should be "courteous" to the general public... and only display force as needed. That's why they call for "backup" if they can't handle the situation alone.

OK... a couple of things...
1) No, I don't think a cops job should be retalitory. However, I'm questioning whether it is wise to have a system set up where cops have to worry about what is too much force when they are under attack. I mean, it's easy for us to sit here and say that this cop used to much force. However, the times that I've been attacked, I find that I didn't really have the time to think about what the appropriate amount of force to use is.

2) Under the system now, what would stop a criminal from attacking a cop? Lets say that one of them decides to stop me and I have enough stuff in my car to send me away for a long time. Why shouldn't I attack them? Heck, if I'm gonna be arrested anyways, what's to stop me from sucker punching one of them just for fun? :shrug:

3) I'm asking this question in regards to honest cops. I know that there is a lot of corruption there and a lot of bad cops (read my first post) and mainly because of that, I myself am not supporting this policy. I'm just putting it on the table to discuss it.

4) There are going to be times when you're not going to have time to call for backup or when backup may be there but not fast enough to react. If a cop pulls me over and I decide to attack him/her... there isn't going to be much they can do about it except use force. If all attacks against them could be predicted, then there wouldn't be a problem would there.

5) I guess what I'm saying is that I feel bad for cops. I mean yes there are bad cops out there. There are also good cops out there. They get the raw deal as far as violence is concerned because nobody focuses on the many many times that someone uses excessive force on them, only on the times when they use excessive force on others. Yes, when we hear of a cop who got killed by some criminal we say what a shame and go on with our lives.

6) As far as the scenario where they beat down a black man in a discriminatory act and find out he's a cop... well... they're screwed and they deserve to be so. :shrug:

7) Joke: Q:Which 2 professions have the dumbest people?
A: Cal trans workers because they believe that those small rubber cones are going to stop a car barreling down on them at 60mph and Police Officers because they believe that a few layers of black and white paint is going to stop a bullet going at them :P

[Showtime]

I thought this thread was about racial profiling and the abuse of power. If someone in a position of power uses it to do dirt than that person is wrong. It doesnt matter the circumstances. There is no retaliation. They take an oath to uphold the law.
Cops are supposed to use their heads and look for criminal activity. They arent supposed to just look at someone and think that person fits a racial profile so they should be questioned/detained.
Cops are supposed to arrest suspects. They are not the Judge and jury. They are not supposed to punish the accused.
I think it goes both ways. Cops treat minorities as enemies and criminals and those kids learn to view cops as the enemy too.
Read my previous post, that cop had a chip on his shoulder. This black kid was peacefully leaving, got jumped by cops, put his hands out and was beaten senseless. If there had been no badges then those racist bastards would have been arrested for assault. Those cops were the lowest form of "gangstas".
Rodney King resisted but still didnt deserve that beating. Until you have seen injustice up close or have been victimized by it I dont think you can understand.
-jel
ps:i have some friends who are cops and its a tough job but i think you do your job right or find another one.

[molecularfire]

Honestly, this cop was no longer under attack... If he had been, then fine, but once the guy was subdued... the attack was technically over, hence any addtional acts of violence from a cop at that point should be considered assault and they should be liable.

I don't doubt that. My discussion is definitely off on a tangent. I'm not talking about this case specifically. What I'm saying is this... lets say that a cop pulls me over. He sees some white stuff poking out from under the passenger side seat, so he tells me to get out and stand next to the car. He pulls out the white stuff from the seat. I punch the guy, and his partner then restrains me. Now... is is OK, for the cop to punch me back? If not, what is to stop me from doing that?


Like what was said previously... this criminal is NOT IN CUSTODY. Therefore he is open game if he makes a move. However, that doesn't mean that a cop has the right to "instigate" a situation.

Look at it this way... what if you were in a crowded club and the cops asked you to leave... You don't put up any static and start moving however you don't move "fast enough" for the officer and he decides to poke or hit you with his nightstick... Now what if you grab his nightstick or try to defend yourself in any way... do you deserve the beating that you might be about to recieve? Think about that for a minute...

I'm not talking about bad cops. Bad cops are bad and should be stripped of their power.


Where I live, the cops roll about 2 to 3 deep even on routine traffic stops. I see it all the time where SEVERAL cop cars are surrounding a suspect's vehicle. I guess the police in your area just don't have the funding to roll that deep I guess.
No, it's the same way here. However, I know people who have stuff that can beat a couple of those pea shooters that the cops carry. Also, if I decide to attack one of them, I can do a bit of damage before his friends can jump in.


My biggest problem with the "good cops" is that for the most part the police are part of a "fraternity"... therefore when one does something wrong the others sometimes cover for him. Basically if one of the good one were to "step up" and take a stand, he would probably be shunned and outcast by his fellow officers... therefore they generally don't do anything to help the situation which can sometimes make them just as guilty by association.
That's actually the situation that I'm really trying to address. Generally, people who are in dangerous situations togethers will learn to watch out for each other. DF, you've brought up a point that most of us, don't trust cops. We think that they are in general good people, but that there are a lot of bad cops out there so we shouldn't trust them. Odd that we'd give them weapons and power without giving them our trust. Anyways, the way the system is set up, cops do have it hard. We don't completely trust them (which at this stage, I think is wise), so we don't give them the power to get the job done. IMO, that is gonna decrease the number of people who wanna make a difference from being cops and increase the number of schoolyard bullies that want to be cops. The way the system is set up now, those people will be the only ones who would enjoy their job. Seems wrong to me somehow. Maybe if we had a system set up so that they're not a screwed, we'd get rid of that us vs. them attitude that both the public and the cops have.

[Merlin]

Originally posted by molecularfire
I punch the guy, and his partner then restrains me. Now... is is OK, for the cop to punch me back? If not, what is to stop me from doing that?


What's to stop you? Well the fact that you will now be facing assaulting an officer charger as well as possesion charges. The possession would not be too bad, probably a fine or something small. The assault - you are going to jail. Judges take officer safety seriously. No matter what you do, adding an assaulting an officer charge to it will make it worse. Thats whats stopping you.

[molecularfire]

Not if it's my third felony... or they find something worse in my car. The problem with the assult law is that it doesn't deter the most dangerous criminals. :(

[molecularfire]

I basically have the same feelings towards them. However, I would prefer a situation where I trust them more (actually... i'd settle for a situation where I trust anyone more). The question is, do you think it's the way the system is set up or something else? What do you think would move our society towards that direction.

[molecularfire]

Oh... I agree that success is unlikely (although it would be kinda cool if a couple of guys on a forum just happened to come up with a solution for the world's problems. :P ) however, the way that I deal with it is that I try to figure out a way to stop it. Remember: Everybody makes fun of the guy that continually rams his head against the wall...


















until the wall breaks. ;)