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ufcrusher
07-08-2002, 11:08 PM
The End of the Line:
Ten Vehicles Going Away

http://carpoint.msn.com/advice/windowshop.aspx?contentid=4021153&src=windowshopping

by the Editors of Carpoint

It is quite a year. At least ten automotive nameplates, including famous ones like the Chevrolet Camaro, Pontiac Firebird, Lincoln Continental and Cadillac Eldorado, are going out of production after the 2002 model year—a number so high even an auto analyst and a classic car magazine editor call this an unusual period.
Typically, only a few models die off in any given year. But there "is a bit of a spring-cleaning year," said Jeff Schuster, director of North American forecasting and product analysis for Westlake Village, Calif.-based J.D. Power and Associates. "It's a little more than normal, a little bit unusual."

Auto analyst Chris Cedergren of Thousand Oaks, Calif.-based Nextrend said the activity "is a reflection of changing market conditions, and the changes in the market have been more dramatic than in the past."

Changing Consumer Tastes
All the models but one—the Lincoln Blackwood—are cars, and their demise comes as Americans increasingly buy sport-utility vehicles, trucks and so-called crossover vehicles rather than cars.

All the end-of-the-line vehicles—ranging from the Camaro to Oldsmobile Intrigue—have posted disappointing sales.

"In the heyday of the Camaro, we were selling a couple hundred thousand a year," said Camaro brand manager Rick Baldic. "In the last few years, we've been selling 40,000 to 50,000."

Production of the Eldorado, which dates back to 1953, peaked in 1984 when 77,806 coupes and convertibles were built. By 2000, only 11,918 Eldorado coupes were produced.

Production of most of the dying models will halt by the end of summer, meaning buyers wanting one of these vehicles better act fast.

One model, the Chrysler Prowler, ended production in February 2002. But a company spokesman said the nationwide supplies of new, unsold Prowlers were expected to last for several months based on expected sales patterns.

Another soon-to-be-ended model, the Lincoln Blackwood, will halt production by early in calendar 2003 after just barely one year on the market. As a result, some dealer ads are touting the Blackwood—a luxury four-door vehicle with a luxury-appointed pickup bed at the back—as a "limited edition" vehicle.

Petitions Don't Stop Camaro End
Auto enthusiasts have mixed emotions about the production shutdowns.

"I'm sure the Continental is going to be missed, and the Eldorado," said Hemmings Motor News executive editor Richard Lentinello, who called the departure of so many nameplates at a single time "unusual.

Many Camaro enthusiasts are unhappy that the 35-year-old all-American muscle car will be no more.

"The demise of the car has been long rumored," Baldic, Camaro's brand manager, said. "With the Internet being so popular today, there have been 'save the Camaro' campaigns that have had petitions. We've read every last one of them."

But the reality is sales are slow, historically speaking, and "this is a fast-paced industry [where] the car side of the business" is changing, Baldic said. He added that buyers "have aged a little bit. Camaro buyers are kind of in their mid 40s [now]. A lot of them just have fond memories of their first Camaro."

Still, research has shown that Camaro "is the fifth most recognized nameplate in the industry," he said. But asked if the Camaro will return at a later time, all Baldic would say is "You can never say never, but we don't have any current plans to return with the car."

Because the Firebird shares its platform and Ste. Therese, Quebec, Canada, assembly line with the Camaro, it also is ending production.

No Tears for Cougar
Some Mercury Cougar fans aren't upset about the shutdown of Cougar production. After all, they have seen it before. Cougar production ended at the end of the 1997 model year as Ford Motor Co. decided to revamp the Ford Thunderbird. At the time, the Thunderbird shared its platform with the Cougar.

Cougar skipped just one model year, 1998, before it reappeared on the market as a smaller coupe offered with a four- or six-cylinder engine. "It was a front-wheel-drive car with no V8, so it wasn't the same thing," said Scott Ferguson, president of the Cougar Club of America. . . . There are some enthusiasts who think that basically the Cougar died in 1973."

Jim Karamanis, president of the Delmarva Cougar Club that represents Cougar enthusiasts in Delaware, Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia, agreed, saying the end of the current-generation Cougar "honestly doesn't matter much. In our opinion, the car hasn't been a Cougar since 1972, '73."

Launched in 1966 as a 1967 model, the early Cougars "had the style of a Jaguar and the punch of a muscle car; that's what made them so special," Karamanis said.

Besides, he added, some Cougar club members have been recently contacted by Ford officials asking for opinions about a possible future Cougar. Indeed, "the Cougar will probably come back in about four or five years on the next Mustang platform," Cedergren said. Cougar's brand manager Mike Sprague declined to comment about future product plans, saying "I'm not at liberty to say" whether the Cougar will return again.

Cedergren said he expects the Eldorado "will probably be reincarnated," too.

And while GM's vice chairman, Bob Lutz, chided a member of the media in spring 2002 who bemoaned the loss of the Camaro—Lutz asked the fellow where he was when Camaro sales were falling—the Camaro name may be back, too.

Noting "that name carries a lot of weight" among consumers, Schuster said, "I wouldn't be surprised to see a Camaro replacement of some sort down the road."

Anniversary/Collector Editions Offered
Just because a car is going away doesn't mean its last year is routine. Several of this year's outgoing models, including the Eldorado, Camaro, Cougar and Continental, are offered in special editions that are built in limited numbers.

For example, Cadillac built 1,596 Collector Series 2002 Eldorados as part of the Eldorado's last assembly sequence.

The limited-production cars come in either Alpine White or Aztec Red, which are two original paint colors from the Eldorado's first model year, as well as seven-spoke chrome wheels and a retuned exhaust designed to emulate the original 1953 car. For collectors, these models include a plate on the instrument panel stating the car's production number, as in "1 of 1596."

"It was such a flagship vehicle, it seemed like a good last hurrah for it," a Cadillac spokeswoman said. She added that the large Eldorado coupe is, unfortunately, "in a shrinking market segment. [As an automaker,] you have to go with what customers are interested in."

There are 35th Anniversary Edition Camaro coupe and convertible models this year, and a 35th Anniversary Edition Cougar is limited to 3,000 units, too.

Lincoln offers 2,000 Continental Collector's Edition cars that include even more luxury touches than found in regular 2002 Continentals. And Chrysler painted its final 300 Prowlers in Deep Candy Red, a color which had never been offered before.

It's "a color that will be instantly recognizable in the hot rod community," said Tom Marinelli, vice president of Chrysler/Jeep Global Brand Center.

It's not just any Deep Candy Red, either. Marinelli said the paint uses new technology "in its pearl coat that will actually make the car sparkle in bright light."

Collectibility Can Depend on Volume
Just because a car is wrapping up production doesn't mean it's going to be an instant—or future—classic.

Jeffrey Broadus, publisher of the Titusville, Fla.-based Car Collector magazine, said a car that has been built in plentiful numbers over many years may not be rare enough to qualify. "What makes it a good collector car? Usually, they're limited-production cars . . . that would definitely favor the Prowler," he said.

Chrysler spokesman Bryan Zvibleman said company officials "expect the Prowler to be an instant collector car." Just over 11,000 Prowlers were built in a five-year run, and of those, only 151 were sold in the Woodward Edition black/red two-tone paint scheme.

But the most exclusive Prowler of all has to be the very last one produced. Built the day after Valentine's Day 2002, this most unique Prowler is the only one painted High-Voltage Blue and has signatures from Chrysler's Prowler team on its undercarriage. It came with a time capsule containing rare Prowler memorabilia and went to a bidder who paid $175,000 for it at a Christie's charity auction held in Manhattan in May.

In comparison, manufacturer's suggested retail price for a 2002 Prowler is $44,625.

Care in Collecting
Sheer numbers of cars built and sold don't explain everything about car collecting.

"Look at the Volkwagen Beetle," Broadus said. Despite U.S. sales that totaled nearly 5 million from 1948 to 1979, "that car today is still a popular car [for collecting]. There's a tremendous following."

Among those who bought a collectible Beetle in recent years: Comedian Jerry Seinfeld, who found a 1966 convertible model with a reported 113 original miles on it.

In contrast, Broadus noted that other mainstream models, such as "some of the Isuzus, Mitsubishis and things that are basic," aren't likely to be collectible.

In fact, many cars disappear without much fuss. In spring 2002, Suzuki began selling the Aerio, the replacement vehicle for its Esteem car, even though the Esteem wasn't winding down until later in the year at the end of the 2002 model year. "Both the Esteem sedan and wagon lent sleek styling and solid value to the small car segment since 1994, when the Esteem went on sale in the U.S. as a 1995 model; but styles inevitably change and now the Aerio SX is leading the sport crossover trend, offering more room and more power than its crossover competition," said Rick Suzuki, president of American Suzuki.

And company spokeswoman Celeste Speier said Suzuki won't mark the passing of the Esteem with any ceremony.

On a related note, the Oldsmobile Intrigue is ending production with the 2002 model year, but its passing is overshadowed by the shutdown of the entire Olds division by the 2004 model year.

Broadus said he expects that despite volumes of Camaros sold over the past 35 years, some Camaro models will retain their value, though probably not the anniversary edition models being sold this year. Rather, the Camaro Indy pace cars hold promise, he said. "There's always going to be a good market for those," he said.

Broadus's general advice: "You shouldn't buy a car for investment. You should buy it because you like it, because you want it."

Noting History, Triva
Brian Kelley, president of Ford's Lincoln-Mercury division, noted that the Lincoln Continental and Mercury Cougar are among "the great nameplates . . . that historically have been icon vehicles, [as in] the '64 Continental and the '68 Cougar."

Indeed, a number of the names that are disappearing from showrooms this year hold a special place in history, on television or in movies.

Cadillac says the 1959 Cadillac Eldorado is often the car people envision when they talk about the large cars with huge tail fins in the 1950s.

And most Americans got their first glimpse of an Eldorado as a 1953 model that carried President Dwight D. Eisenhower in his first inaugural parade.

Mercury's Cougar had memorable "sign of the cat" TV ads in the late 1960s and early 1970s, complete with a live cougar jumping on the car accompanied by a cougar snarl.

And it was a Pontiac Firebird that helped actors Burt Reynolds and Sally Field escape Sheriff Buford T. Justice in the high-grossing 1977 film, Smokey and the Bandit.

johnnymk
07-09-2002, 03:16 AM
Except for the Prowler and the Firebird, the remaining cars were so bland or were butchered beyond recognition, that nobody wanted them anymore.

Hiro
07-09-2002, 07:14 AM
Chevy announced in 1998 that they were discontinuing the Camaro line in 2003.

ribitch
07-09-2002, 07:24 AM
the prowler was cool for the first few months, the it wore off. Maybe it was because i lived in an area in which many chrsyler execs lived, and I was able to see tons of the preprudction cars, but it doesnt do anything for me anymore. Its under powered, the rear end looks like crap, and only looks good with the top down. I just grew sick of seeing some old dude driving one around. The car is a total midlife crisis car.

The firebird is the only decent looking GM car. It would have been nice if GM decided to hold on and give that one more shot without its camaro counterpart.

the lincoln blackwood was a good concept, but it lacked a decent engine, and a 4x4 package. I have seen several wearing an m-plate(m-plates are manufacturer plates issued by the state of michigan), but only 1 that was a consumer owned version

Burzhui
07-09-2002, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by DarkFury
The Cadillac Eldorado STS was the SHIZNIT!!!

Just "too rich" for my blood. :hihi:

Same thing with the Lincoln Blackwood... nice truck, but still just a truck...(with "extras")

No comment on the Cougar... BASTIDS!!! :angry: (It was discontinued in '97 in my opininon... the car currently known as "Cougar" is just a rebadged next generation Probe...)


Amen!!!! my brotha

attgig
07-09-2002, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by ribitch
the prowler was cool for the first few months, the it wore off. Maybe it was because i lived in an area in which many chrsyler execs lived, and I was able to see tons of the preprudction cars, but it doesnt do anything for me anymore. Its under powered, the rear end looks like crap, and only looks good with the top down. I just grew sick of seeing some old dude driving one around. The car is a total midlife crisis car.

Didn't they have a turbo or something on that car?

attgig
07-09-2002, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by DarkFury
The Cadillac Eldorado STS was the SHIZNIT!!!

Just "too rich" for my blood. :hihi:


huh?

wasn't it Seville STS?
I don't ever recall an Eldorado STS....

I actually thought that the Eldorado looked nasty (the latest one...I believe began in mid-late 90's). My dad had the early 90's version - and it was really nice....but all it was was a 2-door caddy

johnnymk
07-09-2002, 01:57 PM
The Seville was definitely a looker. It was probably one of the few Caddies that turned my head. I didn't realize it came under the Eldorado line. Now why would they drop that beautiful car?

ribitch
07-09-2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by attgig


Didn't they have a turbo or something on that car?

not that i am aware of. it was just a 253 hp v6 attached to a 4 speed manual. the car needed a big block, with an impresive sounding exhaust. A scoop on the hood would have also aided in the appearance.

DoPeY5007
07-09-2002, 02:39 PM
well I know the "Snoop-Devill" is on it's way...





as far as the Firebird :bawl:


/me still wants a TA Firehawk

Jihforce
07-09-2002, 03:25 PM
Their biggest problem was more about the exterior design of the car than what was under the hood. Except maybe the Cougar...what the heck did they do? And they dare to call it a Cougar?? I feel for you DF.

Anyway, American car design is very stale and in many cases, tasteless. They keep hanging on to the old school style or come up with some really bad excuses for a car (Azztek). And what's the deal with the new Caddy? Good lord...ugh...

They should maybe, just maybe start hiring some real and talented car designers for a change cuz the trash that they are spewing out of detroit is only pollution the enviroment and not much else.

whitak24
07-09-2002, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Jihforce
Anyway, American car design is very stale and in many cases, tasteless. They keep hanging on to the old school style or come up with some really bad excuses for a car (Azztek). And what's the deal with the new Caddy? Good lord...ugh...

They should maybe, just maybe start hiring some real and talented car designers for a change cuz the trash that they are spewing out of detroit is only pollution the enviroment and not much else.
:stupid:
there are a few decently designed american cars (most of which are copying german or japanese styling). otherwise, most of them are just EXTREMELY unattractive (such as the new CTS, or the Aztek).

it's sad. really, though, i don't think the american cars will really be able to compete until they come up with some decent designs.

Cantacuzene
07-09-2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by ribitch


The firebird is the only decent looking GM car.

::cough:: Corvette ::cough::

ribitch
07-09-2002, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Cantacuzene


::cough:: Corvette ::cough::

i never liked this latest generation of vettes. My uncle has a 01 convertible, and when i drove it i wasnt impressed with it. The stingrays are by far the best looking vette. The last generation vette looks better than these new ones.

I dont know why GM is stuck on that tall rear ends. It seems most of their cars have it. Thats the main reason i dont like the current vette.

And GM's vehicle design staff blows. Aztek, Vibe, CTS, new GTO, Avalance (aka rubbermade truck). what are they thinking? Maybe the older crowd likes them, but i would never consider purchasing one.

johnnymk
07-10-2002, 03:22 AM
ribitch.. I totally agree with you about the latest Corvette. I am an avid Corvette nut, presently owning a 68, and having owned a '62 and '57.
When I first saw the latest design, I couldn't believe my eyes. The car's styling has no redeeming value whatsoever. Like you said, the rear end is too tall, and those taillights... YECCHHH, plus that seam in the rear body panel. The rear end is also too long.
The front end droops down too fast and has no character. That side indentation proves absolutely nothing, and the wheelwells are hideous.
This car is due for a complete makeover. It's just as ugly as the '74-'78 era.

CynJon
07-10-2002, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by johnnymk
This car is due for a complete makeover. It's just as ugly as the '74-'78 era.


I agree... Retro styling seems to be the "in-thing" now, digging up old name/badging schemes (i.e. GTO, Thunderbird). Maybe GM needs to look to the older 'Vettes. Imagine a modernized '63 Stingray, complete with modern running gear...and a big block of course! Makes me wish I hadn't sold my '70 vette...:(

ribitch
07-10-2002, 06:03 AM
the ultimate retro car
http://img.seznam.cz/img_novinky/gt40x.jpg
http://img.seznam.cz/img_novinky/gt40xx.jpg

Jihforce
07-10-2002, 07:53 AM
Saw one of them first hand when I was at the Ford dealership.
I'm not impressed by it. What's up with the big hole on the hood anyway? Yes I know whats for, but its just ugly. It actually look bigger in person than in the pics. Big enough to sit in and put a couple of bags in. :heh:

In regards to the Vette. I personally like the current Vette. Not mad about it, but I think its got potential to be better. I do think that the old school Vette's look good too. I think they need to downsize it a little bit, add more curves to the body. I think its grown way too much, and for a 2 seater, I think its too big of a car.

attgig
07-10-2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by whitak24
there are a few decently designed american cars (most of which are copying german or japanese styling). otherwise, most of them are just EXTREMELY unattractive (such as the new CTS, or the Aztek).

it's sad. really, though, i don't think the american cars will really be able to compete until they come up with some decent designs.

well, I don't know if you'd call it american anymore, but imo, Chrysler has been on the cutting edge of automobile design in the past 10 years.
the concept cars that come out into production - no other manufacturer has done that.
and plus, none of their production cars are major screwups (a la aztek)

as for Japanese car design, nasty. (discussed in the honda accord thread)
european...well, they're expensive cars, of course they're gonna be nice....design wise, shrug, nothin special imo.

whitak24
07-10-2002, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by attgig


well, I don't know if you'd call it american anymore, but imo, Chrysler has been on the cutting edge of automobile design in the past 10 years.
hmmmm.....

i guess i'm not that much of a chrysler fan. i mean, some of their stuff is decent (and by and large, i'd prefer it to stuff that GM and Ford have designed), but i guess their designs don't grab me and say "this car is worth $25k!"

i mean, if i'm going to spend that kind of $$ (which i'm not right now, but anyway....), i would definitely prefer a cheap BMW, Audi, or VW to anything designed in america.

as far as cheaper cars, the focus is decent, but otherwise i would probably go to an acura or something.

i don't know....just my mindless rambling :D

Speedfreak
07-11-2002, 01:08 AM
The Camaro is gone. :bawl: Hopefully they will just come back with a newely designed Camaro instead of never coming back at all. Chevy needs a new car now that is $25-30K and has the performance of the Camaro SS.

I just wish they would have made this one:
http://www.supercars.net/cars/2000@$Chevrolet@$Camaro%20ZL1%20Concept.html

ribitch
07-11-2002, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by DarkFury

I doubt it... GM seems to be DEDICATED to getting rid of all of its "rear wheel drive" cars.

Corvette owners... YOU MAY BE NEXT!!! :eek:

today on the radio (i'm listening to detroit radio), in the news they talked about GM saying they havent eliminated a rebirth of the camaro/firebird lineup. So its not out of the picture, but its not a sure thing.

If the relaunch it, they need 1 car, not 2. Distinction is the key. Thats what adds to the mustangs likability. No other car looks like the stang. Sure GM made the firebird look somewhat different than the camaro, but they still were the SAME underlying vehicle.

ribitch
07-11-2002, 12:32 PM
the capri was the same car, and was built for 6 or 7 years i believe. Ford did the right thing by killing it, but never should have even intorduced that ugly a$$ 2 seater. For most of the stangs life, ford/lincoln/mercury has only had 1 car with that same look and design.

attgig
07-11-2002, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by DarkFury
GM is full of copy cars: Grand Prix/Monte Carlo, Aztek/Rendevous ( :puke: ), Trailblazer/Envoy/Escalade, Avalance/Escalade EXT, Sunfire/Cavalier and that's the "short list" after they axed the Oldsmobile line.

sniff sniff...
bye bye to my olds... :( :bawl:

anyways...
other companies gots the same junks... chrysler's minivans - same thing, lexus/toyota did it with the landcruiser&whatever letternumber combo.
errr....honda's minivan and acura's sub - same car, different shell.
mmmmm, nissan&infinity suv's
hmmmm, kia&hyundai sonata/optima
so on and so forth.

ribitch
07-11-2002, 12:56 PM
most manufacturers only have the standard version, and the luxury version of a car, with different trims available to that car (GT, LX, ES, Sport). GM on the otherhand seemed to make more than 2 versions of several vehicles then had more trim packages.

The escalade is the cadillac version of the yukon/tahoe, not the trailblazer/envoy/bravada

Has anyone seen the envoy xuv? Thats another fine example of fugly gm designs.

brain
07-12-2002, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by DarkFury


I stand corrected... I typed that off of the top of my head and I probably would have caught that myself had I put more thought into it...

But Ford/Lincoln/Mercury still does the same thing... just to a lesser scale since they are smaller than the big GM conglomerate.

Ford 150/Lincoln Blackwood

But on a side note, Ford ALSO likes to share with Mazda as well...

Ford Ranger/Mazda B2000
Explorer Sport/Mazda Navaho
Probe/626 (discontinued)
Escort/323 (discontinued)

Add to GM:

Chevy S-10/GMC Sonoma
Blazer/Jimmy (kick ya in the JIMMY!)

Don't forget about the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute and the Lincoln Aviator/Ford Explorer. And wasn't the Probe sharing the Mazda MX-5 platform?

ufcrusher
07-12-2002, 04:32 PM
As far as I know the probe and the MX6 were twins in both the GT and SE editions, the different engines correlated to each car. In other words there was the GT probe 2.5l V6 and there was the v6 mx-6. I believe the 626 also shared the same platform, but wasnt considered to be one of the twins.

Either way, I loved my Probe till it decided to that it was a palestinian and became a suicide bomber and blew itself up. Car was quick, sporty, and could keep up with most anything that I wanted it to.

CynJon
07-13-2002, 12:42 AM
Let's not forget about all the PT Cruiser owners out there who want to deny that they're driving Neons...:puke:

johnnymk
07-14-2002, 04:09 AM
They could put the 2.4 4 Cylinder like I have in my Plymouth Breeze into the PT Cruiser. I can't believe the awesome power of that little engine. It's just amazing!

CynJon
07-14-2002, 04:14 AM
Originally posted by johnnymk
They could put the 2.4 4 Cylinder like I have in my Plymouth Breeze into the PT Cruiser. I can't believe the awesome power of that little engine. It's just amazing!

Ummmm... I think that's what is in the PT Cruiser...

ribitch
07-14-2002, 05:45 AM
the PT cruiser sucks. if they made the vehicle in general bigger then dumped a throaty v8 into it the we would be talking. It needs some wider tires as well. until that day, I think its an ugly POS

johnnymk
07-14-2002, 01:10 PM
I didn't know which 4 cylinder that they put in the PT Cruiser. If it is truly the 2.4, then why are people complaining?
Sure. it's not a 6 or an 8, but that engines cranks!
When I first saw the PT Cruiser, I really liked it, but after seeing so many, the novelty is wearing off. Still, I give Chrysler Corp. credit for bringing it out. It seems to have worked, considering the car's popularity.