Since no one's brought it up. How about the new 9700?

[Showtime]

What a sweet piece of hardware. Ti4600 has just fell. I just hope those 2 vid card makers dont get ahead of themselves. It has to cost a lot to design , produce and market video cards. One upping(finally ATI gets one) in such a short period of time will bring all other card prices crashing. Hopefully it will payoff for ATI, competition is good.
The new nvidia card is due for Christmas the NV30(?) and than the new one from ATI.
I dont think many matrox's will be sold and for that case forget about that xabre making any noise now.
Live and learn card makers. Bring the best or nothing at all.
-jel:halo:

[NuTs62]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
What a sweet piece of hardware. Ti4600 has just fell. I just hope those 2 vid card makers dont get ahead of themselves. It has to cost a lot to design , produce and market video cards. One upping(finally ATI gets one) in such a short period of time will bring all other card prices crashing. Hopefully it will payoff for ATI, competition is good.
The new nvidia card is due for Christmas the NV30(?) and than the new one from ATI.
I dont think many matrox's will be sold and for that case forget about that xabre making any noise now.
Live and learn card makers. Bring the best or nothing at all.
-jel:halo:

mmm.. so where are you getting this information..! i wanna see specs! :D

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by NuTs62


mmm.. so where are you getting this information..! i wanna see specs! :D

www.gotapex.com (http://www.gotapex.com) ;) Check the news. :P


Anyway, for me, I don't think I am going to be spending $400 for a video card anytime soon, but anything that increases the performance I can get for $100 makes me happy. :D

[GraingerGuy]

There are apecs at anandtech, tom's hardware, hot hardware, etc....they are all over the place!

But yeah...the new ATI card is really impressive! In one test that Anand did, it performed 50 percent better on one of the games...I think it was serious sam 2. I have to say that it is a viable option to get one! We'll see if it drops in price though....I can't justify getting a 400 dollar card. If anything...maybe this is will drive the cost of a GF4 down. :) Good job ATI!

[NuTs62]

Originally posted by GraingerGuy
There are apecs at anandtech, tom's hardware, hot hardware, etc....they are all over the place!

But yeah...the new ATI card is really impressive! In one test that Anand did, it performed 50 percent better on one of the games...I think it was serious sam 2. I have to say that it is a viable option to get one! We'll see if it drops in price though....I can't justify getting a 400 dollar card. If anything...maybe this is will drive the cost of a GF4 down. :) Good job ATI!

ATI still has to work on their drivers.. still have some minor compatibility problems with my card. *mutter*

[bachviet]

Video card price will drop and I found the AIW R8500DV (65MB) for $249 + two $50 MIRs @ www.circuitcity.com.

[DREDD]

I could care less how much percentage it is better in 1 or 2 games!

ATI really disappoints me...where are the hard FPS numbers? I could make up some BS numbers to give to the websites and say "look at that...it's 30% faster in this game and 10% in this one" that to me just showes that they still lie to trick the customers yet again.

They did it with the 8500 when they talked about FSAA giving such great perforance compared to nvidia's card, but when released the drivers didn't even have it enabled.

[Showtime]

No reason to doubt the figures. Anandtech is one of the most trusted sites on the web. This card outperformes any ti4600. When the ati card is running its 4x's AA its still faster than the 4600 not running it.
Picture quality is the best. Speed is the best. Card is the best.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656&p=1
"At 1600x1200 with 4X AA enabled, the Radeon 9700 is 2.51x faster than the GeForce4 Ti 4600. While the frame rates are high enough to be playable, even the almighty Radeon 9700 would need to back down to 1280x1024 with 4X AA enabled to be smooth as silk."

go ATI!
-jel:halo:
ps:its the best til the NV30 hits the shelves........

[DREDD]

I don't doubt them but I still trust numbers more than percentages. SCREW ATI's marketing.

Anyway...like you said...NV30 will show ATI why they're #2 again heh..

Also think about this alot of people just upgraded or bought a Ti4200/4400/4600 and new system builders still buy those now. So...those people WILL NOT be upgrading yet to the ATi card. By the time the ATI card becomes affordable and those people are ready to upgrade the next Nvidia card will be out and those same people will look at the shelf and say...if I spend that much it is worth the extra for the faster card.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down.

[PoloM1]

I like reading about these new cards when they come out, but since I don't game that much I can't justify spending that much on a vid card...... I just upgraded to a 32Meg GeForce2 GTS-V for $30, I'm happy with that.

Oh by the way, is there a difference between the GeForce2 GTS and the GeForce GTS-V, or is it just a naming thing.

[Bires]

Originally posted by DREDD
I could care less how much percentage it is better in 1 or 2 games!

ATI really disappoints me...where are the hard FPS numbers? I could make up some BS numbers to give to the websites and say "look at that...it's 30% faster in this game and 10% in this one" that to me just showes that they still lie to trick the customers yet again.

They did it with the 8500 when they talked about FSAA giving such great perforance compared to nvidia's card, but when released the drivers didn't even have it enabled.

REMEMBER E3 and COMDEX!!!!!

Last year, the Permidia was supposed to be the GeForce4 killer...and it turns out it sucks in real-world gaming.

The year before, it was the KyroII...same situations. I trust preproduction tests and "specs" (from any company/website) about as much as I trust Ross Perot will take the Presidency in 2004. "Cane I feenish?" :laugh:

[LegendKiller]

You guys have to remember that the reason why FPS's were suppressed is because they are losing "meaning". I mean, when you just look at a graph and say "wow, cardX gets 180 fps and card y gets 210", you think "what does that REALLY mean?". Sure, you could say "wow, thats a TON faster", but me, I like PERCENTAGES! Especially when you are talking the insane numbers that these cards are posting.

ATI marketing did not hide anything from Anand, if you wanted to know the FPS's all you would have to do is go to his GF4 4600 review, take that and multiply it by the 1.XX factor he gave you, then you have the 9700's FPS score. He also tested FSAA and other features and he said they looked awesome and turned out good scores.

To me it sounds like we have a lot of die hard Nvidia Fans, which there is nothing wrong with that. However, you need to look at the cards logically, right now its the fastest card you can buy. By the time the NV30 gets out the ATI card will be cheaper.

NEVER get hung up in idealistic buys. I buy the best that I can get for the cheapest price. Why? Because it forces TRUE competition.

The biggest problem with the american auto industry is that for years it has had "loyal" buyers, loyal to a fault. If you buy a car you know is **** (but wont admit it) then all that does is let complacency go unpunished. Its just like crappy football teams that people STILL go to, if you think they are crap then DON'T GO, that forces them to get better.

Nvidia lost this round, dont go buy an Nvidia just because you think Nvidia "rules". Buy one because it offers the better deal.

LK

[Cantacuzene]

Nvidia lost this round, dont go buy an Nvidia just because you think Nvidia "rules". Buy one because it offers the better deal.

Thats like saying that Sony lost the console wars just because Xbox has way better graphics. Its all about sales, and guess what? Nvidia won this round, before it even started.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by DREDD
Are you picking up what I'm putting down.

Not really... :shake:

While you guys are right, it is all about marketing, it sounds like you bought nVidia's side, hook, line, and sinker.

If you are true gamers and are constantly hunting after the king of fps, I don't know how you can ignore those numbers. The people that got a sneak preview at these cards saw the raw numbers, they just weren't allowed to publish them yet. They have nothing to hide, and nothing to gain by lying. :shrug:

I've never owned an nVidia card, and until the previews for the 9700 came out, I was the closest to buying an nVidia card I've ever been. Now I don't know... ATI has just thrown a new card out on the market, and I'll have to wait and see how things size up...

Oh, and LK... when are you going to test one? ;):D

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene


Thats like saying that Sony lost the console wars just because Xbox has way better graphics. Its all about sales, and guess what? Nvidia won this round, before it even started.


Oh, I would not say its all about sales. Sure, sales looks pretty, revenue looks pretty, but you have to remember who is the time to market leader, and who has the "hearts" of the gamers. MS is just ramping up.

While Nvidia may have sold MORE cards than ATI, and might continue to do so, their market share will be reduced, IF they can win the minds of the gamers. What they need is a foothold, then the rest will be done by word of mouth. For a long time they have had a bad word of mouth "yeah, ATI cheats on their benchmarks, they suck", "ATI's drivers suck, the only release them 1 time every 6mo's while Nvidia releases a new driver every week". Now its "Holy crap, did you d/l those new ATI drivers, they rule". The momentum is changing and ATI might start to catch up. Now, I am not an ATI nut, I own a GF3, GF2, GF1, TNT2, TNT, and I started with a Riva128 made by STB. Why did I buy all Nvidia? Because they were the cheapest and the fastest (not always both at the same time). Now, if ATI offers the better deal when I get around to upgrading, I will buy time.


Ladogaboy:
I wont be doing this card...I am just "misc" reviews. DARTH gets to have all of the fun with the High-End cards.

I will have two reviews up next week, and then I am going to be doing a comparison that might be kinda controversial...

LK

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by LegendKiller
I will have two reviews up next week, and then I am going to be doing a comparison that might be kinda controversial...

LK

Uh oh... :shifty:


hehe, I'm sure it will be a good review though. :thumb:

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by Ladogaboy


Uh oh... :shifty:


hehe, I'm sure it will be a good review though. :thumb:


Well, its not going to be that bad. I am actually pretty curious about the whole 5400v7200v10kv15k and how the numbers actually translate into performance...

I even talked to a couple Seagate people and they even disagreed whether there will be a difference. I guess we will see...


LK

[sbp]

The Radeon 9700 is impressive-a DX9 compliant part with 107 million transistors on a 0.15 micron process, and ATI managed to clock it a 300 Mhz plus. :wow: Downside is its expen$ive.

The followup to this is the R300 core produced using a .13 micron fab size. Don't expect it till next year (by the way ATI uses the TSMC the same foundry as Nvidia}.

Personally I'm going to wait until NV30 comes out before getting a next-generation videocard. I believe Nvidia going to launch the NV30 in 3 different models in varying speeds and pricetags. ;)

About Matrox-the Radeon 9700 leaves them in a bad spot. Who will buy Matrox's Parhelia? Matrox spent much time and money making this card and its outperformed. I'm wondering how Matrox is going to surive with its market share decreasing and with only one design team.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by sbp
About Matrox-the Radeon 9700 leaves them in a bad spot. Who will buy Matrox's Parhelia? Matrox spent much time and money making this card and its outperformed. I'm wondering how Matrox is going to surive with its market share decreasing and with only one design team.

I think Matrox controls more of a niche in the market place, a la Mac... I know people who will buy Matrox cards over ATI and nVidia for no other reason than that they are Matrox. I have to admit, too, that Matrox cards produce some of the cleanest and clearest image quality that I've ever seen.


BTW, sbp, do you know if ATI is going to come out with any bargain versions of the R300?

[sbp]

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656&p=24

ATI will release a new product between now and the end of the year however, a couple new products to be exact. There’s the All-in-Wonder Radeon based on the R300, which will finally bring hardware MPEG-2 encoding to an All-in-Wonder card. And then there’s the Radeon 9500, to fill the gap in ATI’s product line. With the Radeon 8500 and 8500LE gone and the Radeon 9000 priced below $149, ATI has nothing to offer between $150 and $399. The Radeon 9500 will be a scaled down version of the Radeon 9700, priced somewhere in between $200 - $300. Our current theory is that the Radeon 9500 will be feature-identical to the Radeon 9700 but with only 4 rendering pipelines and lower clock speeds. ATI hasn’t said much publicly about the Radeon 9500 other than it will be out in Q4 of this year.

[DREDD]

Originally posted by Ladogaboy


Not really... :shake:

While you guys are right, it is all about marketing, it sounds like you bought nVidia's side, hook, line, and sinker.

If you are true gamers and are constantly hunting after the king of fps, I don't know how you can ignore those numbers. The people that got a sneak preview at these cards saw the raw numbers, they just weren't allowed to publish them yet. They have nothing to hide, and nothing to gain by lying. :shrug:

I've never owned an nVidia card, and until the previews for the 9700 came out, I was the closest to buying an nVidia card I've ever been. Now I don't know... ATI has just thrown a new card out on the market, and I'll have to wait and see how things size up...

Oh, and LK... when are you going to test one? ;):D

I'm a true gamer but I will NOT buy a new card just because it's faster...what i have is enough for any game until DOOM 3 at least for me it is (Ti4600)

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by DREDD
I'm a true gamer but I will NOT buy a new card just because it's faster...

But you would buy a new card once yours is becoming a little long in the tooth, no? And when you do upgrade, you will probably atleast consider buying the fastest card available.

I remember reading (I think this was an Anandtech article) that for the next generation of games, nothing less than the G4 will do... Well, now we have a choice, and a lot of the gamers that are still on G3s will have a chance to choose for a change.

[DREDD]

oh yes, but I don't plan on buying anything except my new logitech Z560 that will be here tomorrow! After than I wait for DOOM3 if it runs like utter dog crap I'll buy something to make it run good.