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sbp
08-05-2002, 05:05 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59330,00.html

Teachers, be wary of whom you fail.

Some parents have slapped lawsuits on teachers, saying their kids deserved better marks and should be allowed to graduate from high school despite their grades.

Arizona English teacher Elizabeth Joice got a letter from a lawyer representing one of the students she failed. The letter asked her to take "whatever action is necessary" for the student to graduate or else the family would sue. Joice said the student plagiarized work, failed a paper and did not attend makeup sessions, among other things. School officials caved and the student was able to retake a test five hours before graduation and receive her diploma.

The family's lawyer, Stan Massad, wrote to Joice and claimed the teacher failed to produce a syllabus indicating how she arrived at her grades and said there was a question of subjective grading. He also said Joice assured the student she would graduate. Joice refuted the claims.

In January, 15-year-old Ohio resident Elizabeth Smith and her mother sued the Revere School District and 11 teachers over her failing grades. The suit, which sought $6 million, said the school’s grading practices punished the girl for her frequent lateness and absences even though she had excuses. That case has since been dismissed.

And in Kansas, several school officials resigned in April after biology teacher Christine Pelton gave 28 of her 118 students a grade of zero for a project she said students plagiarized. The school board later reduced the students' penalties and directed Pelton to change the project's weight of the total semester grade. Pelton resigned a day later.

Some parents thought the students were not given enough information about plagiarism and said Pelton was inexperienced. But Pelton said she asked parents and students to sign a syllabus in which she laid out the definition of plagiarism and the penalty.

In a day and age when litigation appears to be the most effective way to get what you want, the question is whether teachers should alter their methods to keep lawyers at bay.

"It used to be said that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Unfortunately, now it's the parents with the lawyer" who get the second chance, said Walter Olson, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of The Litigation Explosion. "It's no way to run a schoolhouse and it's a terrible lesson in itself to teach kids."

Apart from the cases where some parents have legal weight behind their lawsuits, such as cases where a child's disabilities are dismissed by a teacher as poor work ethic, there is no excuse for parents litigating a way for their kids to make the grade, experts said.

"The climate is just so completely different than what it was a generation ago," Olson said. "Every threat winds up making people afraid and pre-emptively, causing teachers to feel a little more at arms length and they have to do things in a little more rulebook kind of way."

David Griffith, spokesman for the National Association of State Boards of Education, said it's not surprising that teachers are coming under the gun around graduation time, but that the issue of parents suing teachers for this type of activity has not yet reached a national scale.

"There's always going to be someone who would look at the lawsuit as a last result," Griffith said. But "you would hope parents would be involved in the students' education well before that … teachers don't take any joy in failing the students."

The No Child Left Behind education law President Bush signed in January included a teacher liability section to help ensure teachers, principals and other school professionals are able to undertake "reasonable actions to maintain order and discipline in the classroom." The law also maintains teachers are protected from most lawsuits if they were acting within their responsibilities.

Some experts say these lawsuits are a result of bad public policy.

"A good first step towards reducing classroom litigation would be to reform the laws that directly encourage it," said Marie Gryphon, an education policy analyst at the conservative Cato Institute in Washington.

Gryphon said the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act (IDEA), for example, encourages and empowers parents to sue schools in order to obtain educational options for kids with special needs. IDEA mandates that states provide an appropriate education to students with disabilities and requires the federal government to provide 40 percent of the funding.

"If the present climate is too litigious, our lawmakers deserve much of the blame," Gryphon said.

mojo
08-05-2002, 05:10 PM
next, peeps will be suing for postcount :P

topane
08-05-2002, 05:25 PM
I'm suing mojo for saying that. :P

NuTs62
08-05-2002, 05:30 PM
i wouldn't mind suing my professor for unfair grading practices, which involve some discrimination. :hmm: but nah, i don't think i'll go to the those lengths. the ones mentioned above sound pretty ridiculous.

Nanotech9
08-05-2002, 05:34 PM
so why grade students at all? might as well just pass them all at the begenning of the semester...

but hey, maybe they'll be too stupid to get jobs later on... no, wait, they'll sue the employer for not hiring them even though they have the necessary degree...

what the FU(K is the world coming to?

Jenny
08-05-2002, 06:39 PM
My mom is a high school math teacher.

She was fired after this last school year. They obviously didn't give her this reason, but we know she was fired because she didn't want to play by their rules. What does that mean? She failed quite a few of her students due to not doing homework, failing tests, etc.

The school pretty much forced her to change the grades to passing.

Anyway, pretty much sucks if you want to be a teacher and stick to your principles nowadays. :(

JPR
08-05-2002, 07:05 PM
The state of Texas issues an exam called TASP. If you dont pass the exit level exam you dont graduate. Well the only way you can fail this test is if you are a complete idiot and have blown off the past 12 years. The test only meausures basic writing, reading, math skills. Well every year there is the 1% that doesnt pass the exit test and then cry. By the way the exit test is given when you are a sophmore and most pass it then.

SnowSurfer
08-05-2002, 08:17 PM
sounds resonable considering people can sue over anything. hell i could sue the hanes company because this shirt i bought 4 years ago is all torn up. smart eh? stupid people. if ur kid fails he failed because hes an idiot. how would they like it if i went and took their job when they failed to do a task. i bet they wouldnt. if anyone didnt guess my two aunts are teachers and i think how people treat teachers is terrible.

Pinkgirl36
08-05-2002, 08:24 PM
So does this mean, when a kid pisses me off at work I can sue the parents because their kid wouldn't listen to me? or cuz they caused me un-necessary mental stress? or their kid is a little ****head?

hmmmm *SO* many choices :rolleyes:

OC
08-05-2002, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Pinkgirl36
So does this mean, when a kid pisses me off at work I can sue the parents because their kid wouldn't listen to me? or cuz they caused me un-necessary mental stress? or their kid is a little ****head?

hmmmm *SO* many choices :rolleyes: You might be onto something there Pink. Let's turn the tables on the bastards.

I say we start with parents whos kids spend more time in daycare than at home.

-OC

Ladogaboy
08-05-2002, 08:54 PM
Welcome to the age of "Accountability". :rolleyes:

Teachers look bad if the students don't test well. Teachers try to push the students harder in order to increase standardized test scores, but by doing so, they end up failing more students because they aren't keeping up with the standards. Administrators look bad bad if too many students fail, so they take it out on the teachers. And the whole time, most parents--who treat schools more like daycare centers than a place to garner an education--are completely unconcerned about their children's academics until after their child fails.

What a lovely system. :dodgy:

Pinkgirl36
08-05-2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by overclocked

I say we start with parents whos kids spend more time in daycare than at home.
When I worked for the YMCA, we had 2 kindergardeners that would be at school at 8 in the morning, and wouldn't get picked up until just about 6 every night. We felt sorry for them, they'd eat breakfast at school, lunch with us, snack, then around 5 they'd get hungary again.

And the sad part was one girl was having problems in school and her mom never helped her at home, she depended on us to do it. She'd get homework on Monday and wouldn't take it home for her mom to see until Thursday, the day before it was due, because it was "easier" for her that way.... :rolleyes:

brainsmile
08-05-2002, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by topane
I'm suing mojo for saying that. :P I'm suing you for taking my idea

molecularfire
08-06-2002, 09:29 AM
Not surprised in the least. I remember when I was in high school, every year, a bunch of parents would go to school and yell at the counselors and teachers because their kids couldn't graduate. The school's policy eventually became, heck let them graduate. If we don't let them graduate, they'll feel like losers and it'll get in the way of their futures. Kinda funny actually... because everybody knew that most of the kids in that school had no futures anyways. :heh:

attgig
08-06-2002, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Jenny
My mom is a high school math teacher.

She was fired after this last school year. They obviously didn't give her this reason, but we know she was fired because she didn't want to play by their rules. What does that mean? She failed quite a few of her students due to not doing homework, failing tests, etc.

The school pretty much forced her to change the grades to passing.

Anyway, pretty much sucks if you want to be a teacher and stick to your principles nowadays. :(

it's all about funding...
anyone remember the simpsons when lisa cheats?
that explains it all

topane
08-06-2002, 10:03 AM
Well, I went home with the waitress
The way I always do
How was I to know
She was with the Russians, too

I was gambling in Havana
I took a little risk
Send lawyers, guns and money
Dad, get me out of this

I'm the innocent bystander
Somehow I got stuck
Between the rock and the hard place
And I'm down on my luck
And I'm down on my luck
And I'm down on my luck

Now I'm hiding in Honduras
I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns and money
The **** has hit the fan

Send lawyers, guns and money...

Pinkgirl36
08-06-2002, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by molecularfire
Not surprised in the least. I remember when I was in high school, every year, a bunch of parents would go to school and yell at the counselors and teachers because their kids couldn't graduate. The school's policy eventually became, heck let them graduate. If we don't let them graduate, they'll feel like losers and it'll get in the way of their futures. Kinda funny actually... because everybody knew that most of the kids in that school had no futures anyways. :heh: that is so freakin lame. It's their kids fault. My step sister didn't graduate with her class, my parents said it's her own damn fault, she missed out on doing things during the summer cuz she was in summer school. and she also has no future. She went in to the army, got married during her christmas leave thingy, got kicked outta the army, and from what I heard is also getting a divorce. She turned 19 in may and can't really hold down a job because she's too damn lazy. :rolleyes:

gear02
08-06-2002, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by JPR
The state of Texas issues an exam called TASP. If you dont pass the exit level exam you dont graduate. Well the only way you can fail this test is if you are a complete idiot and have blown off the past 12 years. The test only meausures basic writing, reading, math skills. Well every year there is the 1% that doesnt pass the exit test and then cry. By the way the exit test is given when you are a sophmore and most pass it then.

Yup...I remember taking that. They gave us, what, three hours, and I did mine in 30 minutes and slept the rest. That's why I got a 2 on my writing (2 is a bad bad grade).

But they make people take the tests in 10th grade to give people chances to pass it. Heck, I think they give it twice a year so if you fail it, you have like 4-5 more chances to pass. In addition, schools in TX have classes focused on passing the test. And still these people cry that this test is unfair. Dude, a monkey with a pencil stuck up their ass could pass this test in at least 5 tries. I don't blame the student, but parents. Parents are evil, especially when it comes to the achievements of their children.

I wonder when the day is when parents sue colleges for not letting their child in. "My child has failed everything and got a 200 on the SAT, why can't they go to Harvard?"

NuTs62
08-06-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Pinkgirl36
that is so freakin lame. It's their kids fault. My step sister didn't graduate with her class, my parents said it's her own damn fault, she missed out on doing things during the summer cuz she was in summer school. and she also has no future. She went in to the army, got married during her christmas leave thingy, got kicked outta the army, and from what I heard is also getting a divorce. She turned 19 in may and can't really hold down a job because she's too damn lazy. :rolleyes:

well... she's been busy.. :P

ZrEo0
08-06-2002, 06:05 PM
im sueing dopey becasue....uh.....uh hes my brother!:P