over powering speakers..what if...

[spoon805]

I have 5 satellites that can handle up to 30 watts. But I am thinking of powering them with a reciever that is 5 x 100w. I know this aint the best, but I was wondering about a few things.

Will I be able to turn up the volume as loud as I was able to before on my less powered system? How easily will the speakers blow?

Should I even be thinking about this?

Thanks.

[whitak24]

ok, if i understand this correctly, you are far better running a 100w amp into 30w speakers than running a 30w amp into 100w speakers.

basically, if your amp pumps out more power than your speakers can handle, you simply need to make sure you don't turn it up too loud, or else you will blow the speakers out. otherwise, there is no harm to either the amp or the speakers.

on the other hand, if your amp is not powerful enough to drive your speakers and you turn it way up to try to get more sound, you will create distortion, which will ruin your speakers rather quickly.

so in your situation, you should be able to get as much volume out of your speakers with your new amp as with your old amp. however, you won't have to turn the new amp up nearly as high in order to get that sound level.

in addition, the sound you hear from your speakers should be fuller and more robust, because your amp isn't stretching to create it.

just be careful, because if you turn your amp up too high, you can say "sayonara" to your speakers :disa:

[spoon805]

Would you both say that a SAFE rule of thumb would be to play the speakers at a volume 90% of what I would use to play it at? I do not know if either of you have played with a sony reciever, but I usually play it from 16-20 on the volume on these speakers, depending on the movie and my mood.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by spoon805
Would you both say that a SAFE rule of thumb would be to play the speakers at a volume 90% of what I would use to play it at? I do not know if either of you have played with a sony reciever, but I usually play it from 16-20 on the volume on these speakers, depending on the movie and my mood.
it depends on how much power your old receiver was putting out. if it was putting out 30w to match the 30w speakers, then i would guess that 90% would easily blow the speakers.

i don't have much experience with this (i have to be careful not to underdrive my speakers, since theoretically they handle more power than my amp puts out--but since the amp is an onkyo, i have a feeling it would blow them if i turned it up). however, i think that before you actually "blow" a speaker, you should be able to hear some problems with the music that would indicate that you're pushing your speakers too hard.

maybe DF knows more here....

[spoon805]

when i meant 90%...i meant volume wise, in terms of the sound level I gear... not the numbers on the reciever. I'm not sure if you were confused about this or not.

[i6s1]

You should be able to hear noticable distortion before they blow. As long as the music is clear, you're ok. For 100w into 30w speakers, I think they should go all the way up with no problems.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by spoon805
when i meant 90%...i meant volume wise, in terms of the sound level I gear... not the numbers on the reciever. I'm not sure if you were confused about this or not.
yes, i was confused. thanks for the clarification.

sound-level-wise, you should be fine at 90% of what you used to hear :thumbup:

[spoon805]

All of you...Thanks for the education. All this electrical theory is still all new to me, so I appreciate all the help I've gotten.

I got one more for you. :P

Well, I got my reciever tonight :D. A Yamaha HTR-5540. Got in on a labor day sale at BB, along with some other goodies on sale to replace the sony system I had stolen.

However, the "Impedance Selector" only has a 4ohm/6ohm/6ohm and a 8/8/8 option (main/center/rear). It says that my speakers must be at least this or higher. But my satellites are only 3ohms. Now, my understanding is that ohms are a measure of resistance. SO, tell me if I'm wrong, this just means that I have to be EVEN MORE careful when adjusting volume, because there will be a surge of power that will overcome the satellites' ohm rating coming from the amp.

Will this ruin the reciever? the speakers?

(I just want to watch a movie. I never new something so simple could get so complicated. But hey, its fun.)


*Update*
Nevermind. My friend just told me this is not going to work. I hate this! I hate this! Back to the drawing board. He said that all that's going to happen is a "click", and then silence.

[InfiniteNothing]

Originally posted by whitak24

on the other hand, if your amp is not powerful enough to drive your speakers and you turn it way up to try to get more sound, you will create distortion, which will ruin your speakers rather quickly.


Okay, I was thinking of getting 200 watt speakers for my 100 watt (per chanel) reciever, but now I hear this may be a bad idea. I don't quite understand though, why will this setup create distortion? It seem like at worst the reciever pumps out 100 amps when you turn it all the way up and then the speakers are fine with this, they just don't play too loud. Does this distortion come up at higher volume levels? Is there any way to make a setup like this work (without any huge costs)?
Also, my speakers are 4 ohms and my reciever expects 8 ohms. Can I just add a 4 ohm resistor in parallel that I find at radioshack?

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by DarkFury

Umm... what did you mean by "all the way up"?

Personally, if I had a 100w amp and 30w speakers, I wouldn't dare turn the knob past 1/3 full turn... any higher than that, and you'd probably be risking a meltdown of the speaker voice coil.

It just isn't a good idea to go full blast on such dinky speakers... or 90% for that matter. :shrug:

There are a lot of factors that need to be considered though. As long as the power running to the speakers is clean, you can usually run a lot more wattage to the speakers than they are rated for. Also, it depends on the Ohm rating of both the speakers and the receiver. For instance, if the speakers are 4 or 8 Ohms and the receiver is 2 or 4 Ohms respectively, it will not be pumping the full 100 watts into the speakers.

But, basically, it just depends on a lot of factors.

[spoon805]

DarkFury, you are correct, I am trying to use the speakers from my old system. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Its a lost cause sadly. Trying to save buck aint easy.

On a better note, I'm getting funds from else where and now getting something decent speaker wise. When I was shopping last night, I played around with these, NS-P220 (http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=11056899&m=1&cat=15&scat=23).

However, I am confused at to some of the specs at the Yamaha site (http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/Specs/?gSPK00010NS-P220). It says, "30 watts nominal, 100 watts music power". This is quite confusing. Anyone know what this means? Will an 75w-80w x 5 amp on my reciever be ok to run these?

My personal guess is that they are 30 watts RMS, but I have no idea what the "watts music" is. Man, I am asking a lot of newbie questions recently, is there like a definitive source on the net that has tutorials on this?

I chose these particular speakers because 1) price (sale, haha) 2) they sounded good for the price. Surprisingly, they were one of the few sets not blown out at Bestbuy. And though they may not have the best specs, they sounded pretty good to my ear. Weak sub is my only complaint, but I'm comparing that to my friends who spend thousands on speakers alone. Also, I don't live in a mansion. My viewing area aint more than 60-70 sq ft. I live in a sardine can like condo.

[spoon805]

damn you're fast :eek: !!

Cool, this sounds good. Breaking the bank for me, but sounds good none the less.

Thanks again to all, especially DarkFury!

[LPMiller]

Think of it like a computer. Start off low, because you will always be upgrading parts and pieces - hell, that's half the fun. I know 1 guy that went crazy on his first system, spending upwards of 20,000 bucks. Sure, it's sounds great - though I swear, I can hear the soft sobbing of his bank account - but where the hell do you go from there? That's no fun.

[i6s1]

Recommended Reading:

http://www.audiovideo101.com/learn/articles/speakers/

Impedance: the resistance to the flow of current in a circuit measured in ohms. Impedance ratings of a speaker represent how much resistance to current the speaker produces. Nominal impedance is the average impedance present in a speaker. Minimum impedance is the lowest impedance presented by a speaker. A speaker's impedance changes at different frequencies so that it may have a low measure of 3 ohms and a high of 35 ohms.

The lower the number of ohms (lower impedance), the more power flows into a speaker. Power is measured in watts and is the result of multiplying current by voltage. As more current is able to flow with lowering impedance (less resistance to current), the more power flows into a speaker. Speakers that exhibit low impedance ratings of one or two ohms can be difficult to drive since they require so much power from an amplifier, thus speakers with very low impedances require robust amplifiers capable of producing power into those low ratings.

Most speakers exhibit nominal impedance ratings of four to eight ohms. Speakers with four ohm nominal impedances should be mated with good quality amplifiers and typically should not be used with most receivers. Eight ohm speakers are generally easy to drive and thus can be mated with a broader range of receivers and amplifiers.



Power Handling: manufacturer's estimate of the maximum amount of amplifier power measured in watts a speaker should receive, also sometimes given as a range from minimum to maximum or even as simply a minimum (which will be stated as such). Power handling figures are merely estimates and should be viewed as such. A speaker with a 100 watt power handling rating can be safely operated when connected to a 500 watt amplifier. The truth is that amplifier power almost never destroys a speaker. In far more cases, it is a lack of power that causes damage. As amplifiers are called upon to produce higher and higher sound pressure levels (volumes), they need more and more power and a large, robust power supply. If they run out of available power, the amplifier will clip. Clipping causes the normally rounded wave tops of an audio signal to be chopped off as they hit the ceiling of available power. Such clipping, especially hard, prolonged clipping, causes more speaker damage than any other problem.

Inefficient speakers placed in large rooms require large amplifiers with good power supplies, even if the rated power of the amplifiers far exceeds the stated power handling of the speaker. Power almost never harms speakers, but distortion does. For this reason, the power handling ratings found with speakers can generally be ignored. It is much more important that the speakers be mated to a good quality amplifier with sufficient power and capabilities to drive the speaker without distortion or clipping at any reasonable listening level in the environment in which the speakers will be used (larger rooms require the movement of more air and thus necessitate larger amplifiers).

[i6s1]

Originally posted by DarkFury

Umm... what did you mean by "all the way up"?

Personally, if I had a 100w amp and 30w speakers, I wouldn't dare turn the knob past 1/3 full turn... any higher than that, and you'd probably be risking a meltdown of the speaker voice coil.

It just isn't a good idea to go full blast on such dinky speakers... or 90% for that matter. :shrug:

The volume knob on an amp is logarithmic, and is linearily proportional to dB, not power. 30w on a 100w amp would usually be around 90-95% of the way up.

[i6s1]

I have no idea what could have happend.