History lesson

[Burzhui]

http://www.infoclick.org/nutshell3.html

[Cantacuzene]

I could take the time to totally refute nearly ever bit of vaguery and half truth presented in that flash movie, but I'll just suffice it to say that it is not fact but opinion, and an opinion generated from an obvious bias.

that was more a "propaganda lesson" than an "history lesson."

[Burzhui]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
I could take the time to totally refute nearly ever bit of vaguery and half truth presented in that flash movie, but I'll just suffice it to say that it is not fact but opinion, and an opinion generated from an obvious bias.

that was more a "propaganda lesson" than an "history lesson."

and i can say that it snows 5" on the ivory coast every day, unless you present some kind of proof it will sound totally dumb

[sbp]

They'll never get along and will keep killing each other. I think the thing to do is built a wall between them, then have the West Bank become part of Jordan and the Gaza strip become part of Egypt.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by sbp
They'll never get along and will keep killing each other. I think the thing to do is built a wall between them, then have the West Bank become part of Jordan and the Gaza strip become part of Egypt.

Because segregation has worked so well in the past. :rolleyes:

[johnnymk]

Good site you found there, Burzhui. Totally accurate, but not politically correct.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Good site you found there, Burzhui. Totally accurate, but not politically correct.

Supporting Israel not PC?!?! :eek:

But I could have sworn that the "warmonger(s)" said...

:angel:

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Good site you found there, Burzhui. Totally accurate, but not politically correct.

My problem with it is thus...

It made a great arguement for why the palestinians have no claim to the land, (except that their ancestors have been living on it for the past 1400 years,) but it didnt prove that the jews of europe had any claim to the land either.

The "Palestinians" for lack of a better name, are the decendents of the original arab conquerors in the 7th century, whereas not one jew living in israel today had ANY ancestors living in "Israel" in the 7th century.

I think its a great travesty that the israelis will untimately win this struggle. People who have been living there for the past 100 years (or less) will be evicting people who have been there for 1400.

However, history is full of tragedies like this. For example, the Celts at one time ruled all of Britain, Ireland, Scotland, France, Belgium, Spain, Austria and part Macedonia, Croatia, and part of asia minor. Thanks to the Romans, Goths, Franks, Danes and Greeks there are no Celts left in the world anywhere.

[sbp]

Originally posted by Ladogaboy


Because segregation has worked so well in the past. :rolleyes: Better separation than more killing. Its worked in Cyprus.

If you have a better solution by all means state it sir.

If anyone believes these people's will get along anytime soon, step forward.

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by sbp
Better separation than more killing. Its worked in Cyprus.

The hell it has. Those Turkish bastards are so completely in the wrong its a sick joke. I feel bad for the thousands of oppressed cypriots. Maybe someday the UN and United States will someday not need the bases in Turkey for use against Iraq and then we can tell the Turks what we really think of them.

[sbp]

"oppressed cypriots" Who is oppressed?

The Greek Cypriots are doing quite well and are getting EU admission.
Turkish Cypriots are with their Turkish brothers who they prefer over the Greeks.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by sbp
Better separation than more killing. Its worked in Cyprus.

If you have a better solution by all means state it sir.

If anyone believes these people's will get along anytime soon, step forward.

Segregation never works. In any form. All it does is build resentment and give people a reason to hate others simply because they are "different". Hell, if segregation went on any longer in the U.S., there probably would have been a second Civil War.

And it's too late for my alternative solution, so I'm not even going to bother stating it. :(

[sbp]

These are different communities who don't want to live together and who have a troubled violent history. Forcing them to live together will just continue the strife and is not the answer. Also it should be understood each community wants to rule themselves.

Anyways this is something for them to work out. If they choose to be together thats fine. If they choose to go their own separate ways that should be fine also. Now darn you Czech Republic and Slovakia why'd you break up like that?

[Cantacuzene]

There is no such thing as a Turkish Cypriot. Any Turks living in cyprus now are 1st or 2nd generation colonists from turkey who were put there because the overwhleming Greek majority on the island favored becomign part of Greece. The Turkish military dictatorship wouldnt allow Cyprus and Greece to become one so they sent thousands of colonists backed up by soldiers to 'lay claim' to part or if possible all of the island before the Cypriots could declare independence from Turkey and haev an Act of Union with Greece.

Lets not forget that the segregation is forced on the Cypriots by the UN and US. The United States doesn;t recognize northern cyprus as a country. The US government still considers the southern greek cypriot government the legitimate government for the whole island.

Also remember, the Northern Turks have an army at the backs just waiting to invade teh south if the UN should ever leave. The Cypriots have no one but the UN soldiers to defend them. If the UN would leave Cyprus we would have an immediate repeat of the teh past 30 years. (http://www.kypros.org/Occupied_Villages/links.html)

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by sbp
These are different communities who don't want to live together and who have a troubled violent history. Forcing them to live together will just continue the strife and is not the answer. Also it should be understood each community wants to rule themselves.


The question is, why are they two different communities? Why were the two groups separated in the first place? Why can't the Palestinians have their own representation?

Thanks for the info on Turkey and Greece, Canta. That's one of the areas in which I want to delve a little deeper. Not to stray too far afield, but have you watched the movie Ararat? I would have prefered it had they focused a little more on the history, but it still brings up some interesting issues that need to be addressed.

I just find it funny how few people in this country know about the nefarious pasts of many of the U.S.'s allies. :hmm:

[Hunny]

Originally posted by Ladogaboy


Segregation never works. In any form. All it does is build resentment and give people a reason to hate others simply because they are "different".

Bravo !! ...and so true...I couldn't have said it any better ....:amidala:

[johnnymk]

I am not convinced that forced integration has produced any better results than segregation.

[WhiskeyPapa]

I think the Palestinians have played their hand all wrong. Here are some facts:

1. Palestinians are treated as second-class citizens in any nation they have lived (Israel, Jordan, Egypt, etc.)

2. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

3. The birthrate among Jews is a typical European rate (less than 2 children per family.)

4. The birthrate among Palestinians is more than 6 children per family.

Conclusion: The Palestinians would be better off to live as second-class citizens in a democracy, and within 50 years, they would be an overwhelming majority, and could simply "vote" to change Israel into Palestine! :)

[Cantacuzene]

Too bad they arent given the right to vote.

Also, living in a democracy isnt all its cracked up to be. I can think of at least 10 democracies world wide that I wouldnt want to be anywhere near. Not saying I dont like democracy, but I understand that it isnt the simple solution to peace and prosperity for everyone else in the world the way it was for us.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
Too bad they arent given the right to vote.

Also, living in a democracy isnt all its cracked up to be. I can think of at least 10 democracies world wide that I wouldnt want to be anywhere near. Not saying I dont like democracy, but I understand that it isnt the simple solution to peace and prosperity for everyone else in the world the way it was for us.

Also, too bad there aren't really any true democracies, and gerrymandering is always an option in republics. :hmm: