Photography

[latingirl]

Aight, I didn't know if this thread was okay here or if it belonged in hardware.

I know there are many photography enthusiasts out there. I have a question. Next semester I'm taking 2 basic photography classes (one's a lab). I need a 35mm camera with manual capabilities and was wondering what would you recommend and where in the L.A. area would I get the best deal in both the camera and other supplies (online would be good, too).

Thanks!

LG

[JackHammer]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

Prices are comparable. I got an olympus 35mm all manual but apparently they don't sale it no mo'.

[Nija]

LG, look here (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=53162&highlight=35mm) Both GilbertsGrape and myself had similar questions. on a related topic, my g/f loves her new nikon n65 :D

[latingirl]

Thanks guys!

Hey Nija, has your gf started her class yet or does it start in the spring?

I'm taking my class at SMC. I don't know much about the teachers though, but I'm asking around.

Also, what about the rest of the supplies, where can I find the chemicals, film, etc. at really good prices.

[TERRIBLETOM]

I have a Pentax K1000 that I bought some years ago, it's all manual and the picture quality is great...

[whitak24]

when you say "manual capabilities" what do you mean?

do you mean simply being able to manipulate the shutter speed and the f-stops? or do you mean complete manual functioning of the camera?

[latingirl]

Originally posted by whitak24
when you say "manual capabilities" what do you mean?

do you mean simply being able to manipulate the shutter speed and the f-stops? or do you mean complete manual functioning of the camera?

dunno, actually. The class sched just said "a 35mm camera with manual capabilities". I guess I just figured anyone who has taken a basic photography class or knows something about basic photography would know what I need.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by latingirl
I guess I just figured anyone who has taken a basic photography class or knows something about basic photography would know what I need.
ouch. so you're saying that because i had to ask, i must not know? :P

if you just need manual capabilities, then something like the N65 (which Nija got PG) should work fine. but you may want to check out a site like www.popularphotography.com or www.photo.net to see which of the lower-end auto SLRs have the most user-friendly manual interfaces.

[Nija]

Originally posted by latingirl
Thanks guys!

Hey Nija, has your gf started her class yet or does it start in the spring?


Also, what about the rest of the supplies, where can I find the chemicals, film, etc. at really good prices.

It starts in the spring.

you will need black and white film, which i, surpriseingly found at target for cheaper than color, about $4.50, and then i bought her a multi-pack of 400/800 speed film. my mom got her a camera bag, film and a strap. You shouldn't need chemicals unless you are going to be developing at home, which, from what i hear, isn't what a beginner does. :P

[Chinpoko_Mon]

Originally posted by latingirl
I'm taking my class at SMC.

SMC has got some fine lookin' mamas.... yyoowwwzaa!

[latingirl]

Originally posted by Nija


It starts in the spring.

you will need black and white film, which i, surpriseingly found at target for cheaper than color, about $4.50, and then i bought her a multi-pack of 400/800 speed film. my mom got her a camera bag, film and a strap. You shouldn't need chemicals unless you are going to be developing at home, which, from what i hear, isn't what a beginner does. :P

Thanks.

Well, actually, I'm taking two classes concurrently. One is a lab (where we will be developing our film :pfft: ) , one is lecture only.

I actually forgot that my sister took a photo class at El Co a few years ago. AND she still has her camera (which I get to borrow)! Its an Olympus OM2000. Now I just have to worry about supplies.

[latingirl]

Originally posted by whitak24

ouch. so you're saying that because i had to ask, i must not know? :P


Of course. :shrug:


:P

Really tho...thanks. I'll check those sites out. Although, I uh, don't know what an SLR is.

[GilbertsGrape]

i bought a N65 Kit body and lense at etronics.com

got a damn good deal afer rebates. :)

[ufcrusher]

I guess it all depends on what you are trying to do. A Pentax K1000 is a great completely manual camera. I have had one for over 15 years now and it has only had one problem, which I still need to get diagnosed. I got that camera because for my photography classes, we had to have a completely manual camera...it couldnt even have automatic capabilities. This begs the question of whether your class allows you to use any camera with manual capability (which would be any SLR) or specifically a manual only camera. My sister actually uses a canon but i cant remember which model...it is the equivalent of the Pentax though.

If you are looking for a auto/manual slr...you start getting into a whole different world. By this I mean that you have to decide how into photography you are really going to get. You can go with anything from an entry level Nikon (the N65 is an example of a good camera...generally glass lens unless they company switches it out, with a relatively good reputation) to a top end professional level camera. It all depends on what features you want to have. In other words, do you want to be able to have a speed winder/motor? Do you want to have the ability to do spot focusing? Things along these lines.

Since it is an SLR you will also want to check on what lenses are available for the camera. Is there a fish eye? Wide angle? What is the focal length of the lens that it comes with. Most reputable companies will have packages where you can buy the body separately and then get a range of lenses for it.

I would check with the instructor to see what lenses are recommended. (I.e. - Macro lens, Telephoto, standard 30 - 80) You will also want to have a lens protector, a UV filters ring, and then you might want a couple of special filters if you are interested in doing such shots.

Hope this helps.

[latingirl]

UFCrusher - Thanks!

It does help a lot, thats a lot of good info. My sister told me her camera is completely manual. I'll have to see after I start the class, but it seems like I might be buying another camera eventually. At least I have hers to start with.

[JackHammer]

Originally posted by Nija


It starts in the spring.

you will need black and white film, which i, surpriseingly found at target for cheaper than color, about $4.50, and then i bought her a multi-pack of 400/800 speed film. my mom got her a camera bag, film and a strap. You shouldn't need chemicals unless you are going to be developing at home, which, from what i hear, isn't what a beginner does. :P

What brand film did you get for $4.50 at Target? I use the Kodak....uhh I don't remember. It's yellow with green fonts on the box.

[Nija]

Originally posted by JackHammer


What brand film did you get for $4.50 at Target? I use the Kodak....uhh I don't remember. It's yellow with green fonts on the box.

I wanted to say kodak, but the box was grey and yellow with a white stripe, I don't remember I'd have to check when I got home. But yeah it was just sitting there like towards the middle/bottom of the film rack, so I picked her up like a few rolls. :)

[caribiner23]

Cast another vote here for the Pentax K1000. I still use it for sports and portrait photography. I bought it in '83 for my beginning photography class.

Make sure the black and white film is Tri-X. Kodak has this new stuff which is black and white but it uses regular C-41 (color) processing. I don't really like the results this film gives, plus it won't work with the chemicals you'll likely be using.

For chemicals and whatnot, I either go to Central Camera (http://www.centralcamera.com/) which is right down the street from me here in Chicago (they have a good mailorder/web businesss) or Porter's Camera Store (http://www.porters.com) in Iowa who's been doing this stuff mail order for as long as I can remember.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by latingirl
Really tho...thanks. I'll check those sites out. Although, I uh, don't know what an SLR is.
SLR = Single Lens Reflex camera, i.e. a camera that you can change the lenses on (vs. a P&S -- point and shoot -- camera, that only has one lens).

imho, a completely manual camera is great to learn on. you actually have to learn exactly what all the different settings on the camera are doing and how manipulating them will affect your pictures.

i'm still stuck on a manual - minolta xg-m, to be exact. it has auto metering, which is nice (i'm nowhere near enough of an expert to select f-stop/shutter speed combos intelligently in many situations), but you can easily manipulate it to do all kinds of stuff.

however, i'd like to move up to a high-level amateur/mid-level professional camera (like the minolta maxxum 7, for instance), and was actually getting ready to this summer. then i lost my job and my discretionary spending pretty much disappeared :bawl:

as far as film goes:

Make sure the black and white film is Tri-X. Kodak has this new stuff which is black and white but it uses regular C-41 (color) processing. I don't really like the results this film gives, plus it won't work with the chemicals you'll likely be using.
i agree with caribiner here. i've used the kodak B&W that processes C-41 several times, and you get decent pics with it, but not great black and white reproduction. the vivid contrasts and true blacks and true whites that make B&W such a compelling shooting choice are noticeably absent from the film processed c-41.

so stay away from that stuff (although it can be good in some situations), especially because as caribiner said, it won't process using typical B&W chemicals.

[caribiner23]

Here's a pretty good definition of the different types of cameras (from Porter's web site, complete with typo :) ):


Q. What are the basic differences between PIONT AND SHOOT and SLR (single lens reflex) cameras?

A. SLR cameras view through the lens that forms the picture, so you can see in the viewfinder exactly what will be in the picture and whether it will be in sharp focus. A mirror reflects the image up into the pentaprism viewfinder. When you take the picture, the mirror swings up, out of the image path, the shutter opens and the film records the image. Most SLRs have interchangeable lenses.Point and shoot cameras view through a lens separate from the image-forming lens. The viewfinder image is not as exact, especially at close distances, but the cameras are more compact and less expensive due to their simpler design.

On the topic of film, I took this shot with the Kodak C-41 black and white film mentioned above. The image not as "deep" as I would like it and I don't like the lack of "true" blacks and whites as whitak mentioned. Regular Tri-X film would have looked a lot different. (Mitigating factor: this was kind of a lousy scan job by the place that processed the photos. The original doesn't look quite as washed out.)

(Hopefully this link will work.)

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/897b1da/bc/Yahoo!+Photo+Album/Emma.jpg?bcoRwH.A5k_VVvTo

[whitak24]

here's a pic i took in new orleans last year with the kodak B&W/C41 film:

http://www.lemonizer.com/uploads/flowershop2.gif

notice how the "blacks" are actually "purple" :2far:

btw, caribiner, try using sho.gun's lemonizer upload service at www.lemonizer.com/upload.php

btw#2: walmart sells the kodak t-max 400 professional black and white film for $3.87/roll

[penguintrix]

just a couple of thoughts to add to this thread. =)

if you're a student at smc or ecc, you can always go to any of the local photo labs as well as the stores and get a discount. samy's and calumet all offer student's discount on any of the supplies that is being mentioned here. basically, your d71 to tmx developers, to film, paper, whatever. equipment is a bit trickier but depending on who you get to help you, you can occasionally get discounts comparable to the pricing online.

if you're specifically a student at smc or ecc, i can recommend a few.

first off, i would NOT go to silvio's unless you know the mgr there.

paul's photo in torrance, as well as samy's over in culver city/venice accommodate students and would have near everything you would need for any elementary and intermediate class. the samy's in hollywood is also a good one,... and there's one more in long beach but am forgetting the name off the top of my head. one of the teachers at ecc and one at smc (forgot which one though, sorry) prefer exclusively kodak's tmx100 or the ilford equivalent. if you get one of those teachers, you can then go online and buy short dated film in the "brick" format and get it ridiculously cheap. same with paper,... but only if you know exactly what the teacher wants. at the intermediate level, you might start working with fiber paper, which is a lot of fun, but hard to find places where they sell the good quality stuff. contact me privately and i can probably set you up for that one.

as for film,...
one supposed general rule (and i'll explain why "supposed" later) is that box color of the film is what the film is strong for. i.e. kodak, b/c their box is yellow, they're good daytime, daylight, strong sun pictures. which means, kodak would suck under flourescent or tungsten light, no matter how strong. fuji, green box, ... means landscape, or wide angled shots of the such. agfa, strong reds, more of the macro,... and so on and so forth. different photographers have different preferences too. i prefer fuji over kodak b/c of the way fuji interprets colors overall,... i think fuji just does a better job. kodak, some of their stuff oversaturates or undersaturates by too much. agfa's always in my bag. and this is all of course, color negatives. we're not talking slide film at all,... that's a whole another story.

as for processing,...
c-41 processed b/w film, in my opinion, is fantastic. just find a good lab that will do what's known as a true b/w print and you won't get that "purple" tint. generally, the more upper scale labs or those that cater to the photographers on the whole and not costco type consumers will be able to do true b/w on a color based equipment. also,... you can purple tint on your prints if the lab you're in (at school or otherwise) does not refresh their chemicals in the tray.

oh, and on a side note, some elementary and intermediate classes will most likely want you to use 100 speed film b/c they're going to want to make you work for the shot rather than letting "technology" help you out. *hehe* most teachers i think now are ok with students using 400 speed film, but you occasionally run into those that require and will only accept 100 speed,... i was lucky enough to run into those teachers and have learned so much from them that i'm thankful for that.

anyway, enough blabbering. sorry for the long post.

a couple of images - tmx100 - processed @ home, printed at a school lab a long time ago. "depth of field" assignment.
http://penguintrix.com/ekdis/pix/tmp/pier.jpg

this one, b/w tmx100 - processed and printed at a color lab, requested true b/w - "every day life" assignment.
http://penguintrix.com/ekdis/pix/tmp/gotapexpic2.jpg

[Freelance Superhero]

latingirl, if you're looking for a camera or equipment in general in LA, you could try one of the following:

samy's camera (http://www.samyscamera.com/home.php) or
bel-air camera (http://www.belaircamera.com/)

i knew someone who took a few photo classes at smc, and the instructor actually gave recommendations on where to get equipment and where to develop. down the street from the campus, on pico, there's a place called SD Color where my friend got all of her film developed.

i hope you enjoy the classes. it's an expensive hobby, but i'm sure you'll love it.

[CornMonkey]

if you don't mind the drive to canoga park, i suggest Canoga Camera (http://www.canogacamera.com/e/env/0001NUq21WcE8OUSf89A1E4/index.html?link=/index.html). their prices are VERY nice... bel-air will try to rip you off...unless you got some negotiating skills. i don't think they officially do pricematching but when i referred to canoga cameras and their lower prices, they reluctantly matched the price of my external flash.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by penguintrix
a couple of images - tmx100 - processed @ home, printed at a school lab a long time ago. "depth of field" assignment.
http://penguintrix.com/ekdis/pix/tmp/pier.jpg

nice pic.

is that santa monica pier?

[QuantumKicker]

Originally posted by penguintrix
just a couple of thoughts to add to this thread. =)

this one, b/w tmx100 - processed and printed at a color lab, requested true b/w - "every day life" assignment.
http://penguintrix.com/ekdis/pix/tmp/gotapexpic2.jpg

Hey Penguintrix, where did you find this picture? My friend the same exact one, and another variation of the dog's position.

[penguintrix]

Originally posted by Freelance Superhero
latingirl, if you're looking for a camera or equipment in general in LA, you could try one of the following:

samy's camera (http://www.samyscamera.com/home.php) or
bel-air camera (http://www.belaircamera.com/)



just wanted to share my experience about bel-air camera,...

i've gone several times there to check out equipment because they some times have gear that isn't available anywhere else first (i.e. d1, d100, etc.). was very insulted every single time i was there by the salespeople there. they were very rude and snooty.

i emphasize, this was my experience and my friend who shoots for living also went through the same thing. he puts up with though b/c he's ready to flash the cash to buy gear for his business if needed. (must be nice *sigh*) canoga camera (as corn monkey brought up) is reputable store. we've had some good experiences with them.

anyway,... on that note, i would recommend going to any place to take a look at the gear you're interested, holding it, and definitely playing with it in the store,... and then look for it online to order it. you definitely need to hold the camera with several lenses before you purchase,... tech specs are important, but if you can't handle the camera, it'll ruin your experience.

[penguintrix]

Originally posted by whitak24

nice pic.

is that santa monica pier?

thanks! actually, it's manhattan's pier. :)

[penguintrix]

Originally posted by QuantumKicker


Hey Penguintrix, where did you find this picture? My friend the same exact one, and another variation of the dog's position.

uhh,... i'm actually the owner of this pic. :) however, i took the shot during a quick trip up to santa barbara last year,... it was while walking along that one main street (sorry, it escapes me at the moment - it's the one that leads you straight to stearns wharf) shopping with my friends that i saw this rotteweiler and snapped a quick pic of it.

note the loose leash and the dog looking straight at me,... a couple of times i was afraid he/she was going to come check me out,... and not in a happy way. *hehe*

i would love to see your friend's pic if you can get a hold of it!

[Freelance Superhero]

alright then, yeah, SCREW bel-air camera! yeah!

[penguintrix]

Originally posted by Freelance Superhero
alright then, yeah, SCREW bel-air camera! yeah!

well, not if you've got money to burn and want the best, first before anyone else,... :D

[raimin]

I also just bought a camera last night from bhphotovideo. I didn;t even think about searching here for suggestions, so i went the newsgroup route. I went into Ritz camera to feel out the N65 and Rebel Ti, but decided to go up a level. I liked both the N80 and the Elan7. I ordered an Elan7, didn't think i needed the 7e, with the Canon USM 28-105 zoom lens. I am taking a intro photography course this spring

[whitak24]

Originally posted by DarkFury
snipped
yup, you're right ;)

[latingirl]

Penguintrix, I just wanted to compliment you on those shots. They are really good, you have a good eye.

The one on the pier has some yellow streaks on it, though. Is that a scanning issue or a developing issue.

The one with the dog is perfect.

[penguintrix]

thanks latingirl!

in terms of the streaks, i don't see anything, on my original image or the one being displayed for gotapex. can someone else confirm this?

and in terms of slr and p&s,... you pretty much see what the lens sees on both. if you take a p&s and zoom it out, you'll see what it zooms out to, no? for most of the cameras today, they're what-you-see-is-what-you-get type. :)

slr's were developed with a mirror that would flip back to allow light in, and then flip back down to "end" the exposure. they're different from twin reflex, or rangefinders (i.e. the leica's) in the mechanics. so,... a single lens reflex, simple means, you can interchange the lens one at a time, with a reflex mirror that allows you to see the image off of a mirror, through the lens. a rangefinder doesn't have such a mirror and has other advantages as such,...

basic info in any event. you guys can easily do a search on google and find a grip of info on this subject matter including history (if you were REALLY that interested,... hahahaa)

http://www.photo.net/making-photographs/camera