M4|)0|\||\|4 wages war with H4x0R$

[Showtime]

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters/Hollywood Reporter) -- Anyone who thinks they can control the Internet received an object lesson during the past week.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/04/28/hackers.madonna.reut/index.html

-jel-wtf do you think your doing-:halo:

[Grimm]

We made her rich beond belief by buying her music, now she wants to be greedy about it? There needs to be fair use. Without fair use coppyright is meaningless.


Jello, using 'leet haxorz speech in a thread title is BS.

[johnnymk]

I am always amazed that musicians and record companies feel that they're entitled to megabucks for the few number of hours labor that they put into an album.

[Joshua]

That is great on both sides. Madoona screwed the public with the bogus audio and they screwed her back with her site and making mixes!

ha ha ha ha!

[zenbooty]

Originally posted by johnnymk
I am always amazed that musicians and record companies feel that they're entitled to megabucks for the few number of hours labor that they put into an album. Where do I even begin? :rolleyes:

Where did you get it into your head that musicians feel this way? Where did you get the idea that putting an album together consists of only a "few number of hours of labor?"

[Merlin]

First of all :bonk: on :halo: for the lame thread title. I mean really, at first I thought it was something by hang10.


"coke, anger and boredom" were also possible motivators.


Okay, now that was funny. What motivates today's youth. :eek:

[johnnymk]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Where do I even begin? :rolleyes:

Where did you get it into your head that musicians feel this way? Where did you get the idea that putting an album together consists of only a "few number of hours of labor?"

Ok, Smarty, how many man hours would you say it takes for the typical album?

Figure that there is a backup of several musicians playing instruments, maybe 5-10, let's say 15. A lot of the stuff today may be synthesized in the background or dubbed over and over, so it may take just a few musicians.
With a lot of the crap that's out there, I would imagine that no more than four or five musicians are even involved.
In addition, a hit album requires that only two or three songs are decent. The rest are just going along for the ride. And I would imagine that those remaining songs have been taken from amateurs which the record company paid peanuts for royalties.
The actual production of the album at the studio probably involves less than 2-3 weeks of work total. That's one day per song. That's just a guess. Some of the better song may take a little more while some of the junk may take a little less.
Then there are manufacturing, distribution, sales , advertsing and other miscellaneous costs by the record companies. Most of these costs could be eliminated if the music was disseminated over the Internet.

So how many man hours total would you say are involved? 2000, possibly 5000. Multiply that times $100 per hour and you get $200,000 to $500,000. That includes everyone from start to finish.

Figure that all of the middle men and the retail outlets account for a 300% markup. So the record companies and musicians cost for a $15 album realizes them $5.

It would take 40,000 to 100,000 albums to break even. I don't know if that many albums is a low or high number.

[avlena]

Originally posted by johnnymk
Ok, Smarty, how many man hours would you say it takes for the typical album?


I'm sure that with someone as well-established as madonna, it probably is a completely different story, but I know my little bro works his ass off to make a single CD for their band. takes them at least 6 months, if not a year... that's not just a few piddly hours. :P although admittely he's definitely not a mult-millionaire musician...

i'm not sure u should really make such a statement like that w/o every doing it yourself. that's like when a non-tech person asks a developer to make a particular sw in a matter of weeks, when it really takes months to do it RIGHT. (weird analagy, sorry, but i was just chatting about it with someone, so it's the best i could do! :P )

[Showtime]

Originally posted by Grimm
We made her rich beond belief by buying her music, now she wants to be greedy about it? There needs to be fair use. Without fair use coppyright is meaningless.


Jello, using 'leet haxorz speech in a thread title is BS.
:pfft:


Merlin,
:woo:


It's a thread about her and the leets and you ended up reading it didn't you. I figured everyone would get it and laugh. :shrug:

However, I shall refrain from using the restricted language and leave to the real pro's like H4|\|G - !:)

-jel:halo:
ps: Still interesting stuff and there is a lesson here somewhere.

[johnnymk]

Originally posted by avlena


I'm sure that with someone as well-established as madonna, it probably is a completely different story, but I know my little bro works his ass off to make a single CD for their band. takes them at least 6 months, if not a year... that's not just a few piddly hours. :P although admittely he's definitely not a mult-millionaire musician...

i'm not sure u should really make such a statement like that w/o every doing it yourself. that's like when a non-tech person asks a developer to make a particular sw in a matter of weeks, when it really takes months to do it RIGHT. (weird analagy, sorry, but i was just chatting about it with someone, so it's the best i could do! :P )

I figured 2000 hours on the low end and 5000 hours on the high end. 2000 hours is equivalent to one man working approximately one year at 40 hours per week. 5000 hours is 2-1/2 years. Obviously, there is more than one person involved in the process, so the number of hours would work into the equation.
And the Madonna types with the full orchestra background would add to the total costs, but these are the exceptions and not the rule. However, even considering a full orchestra, hopefully a talented composer would be able to sift through the music and refine it by the time the music is recorded in the studio.
I am only throwing figures around. These hours may be dramatically high or very low. I am looking at the broad spectrum, from mediocre to high quality music.

[Grimm]

I think 2000 hours sounds reasonable for a CD. If it takes more than that then someone is wasting a lot of money. How your get $100 per hour I'll never know. Interns are lucky to make $10 an hour. They are the ones who do most of the work.

You forget that a lot of the income a CD generates is from airtime on radio. Also add in commercial uses and you are talking about a lot of dough. The radio time probably pays for all the CD production costs and then some. The CD sales are cake. Maddona probably sells a million CD on a bad one.

The copyright laws were designed with several fair use clauses. The media giants have paid our government to have those removed so they can make more money. We were sold out by our leaders at the behest of the media monopolies. The intent of copyright is that only the creator or his/her designated proxy make profit from an original work. This has been bastardized. Now "Artists" think they have a right to own every copy of something they did and licence it to us every time we want to listen to it. If Maddona could she would charge us every time we wanted to listen to her "music".

Supporting copyright laws is wrong. It shows support for corruption and unfairness. Copyright should be done away with until it is restored to it's original intent.