Medal of Honor on Ebay

[IrishSS]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172933892

If I'm not mistaken, isn't it against federal law to sell or buy a Medal of Honor?


Update:

As taken from the Congressional Medal of Honor site, www.cmohs.org

"It is illegal to sell, wear, or manufacture any decorations or medals authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States.

In General. - Whoever knowingly wears, manufactures, or sells any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fixed under this title (18 United State Code) or imprisoned not more than six months or both.

Title 18 United States Code. Sec. 1001, entitled "Statements or entries
generally," June 25, 1948, ch. 45, 62 Stat. 749."

[Cantacuzene]

nm. [edit] i didnt see that it was spanish american war.

I assume when the guy is dead he should be buried with he medals, but if he isnt then i dont see why it cant be sold to collectors.

[Dave_7]

Well... maybe the law is intended (for among other reasons) to discourage exhuming a medal of honor recipient and selling the award, eh?




Dave.

[Dave_7]

"We are offering this medal for sale from our office in CANADA."

From the site auction details.

Maybe that's how they're getting away with it. But I still think it's illegal to purchase one (in America).




Dave.

[Fas-ligand]

So you going to bid Irish? :thumbup:

[ShawnLee]

Stupid Canadian bastards...

[Showtime]

:stupid:

yeah, stupid hosers!

but than again we sell stuff that are sacred to other people.

-jel:halo:

[guiseppewv]

It is amazing to me some of the things that ebay bans and then they let something like this slide on by. If enough people complain this item will be pulled. Medals are not something to be sold, just my 2 cents, though.

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by Yossarian
:disa:

this should be donated to a museum.

I couldn't agree more.:)

[Joshua]

No, I think it's to keep the value of the medal for those who earned it. Would you want to have risked your life and gotten a medal for it, that some club chick is wearing as jewelry cuz she got it off of ebay?


Originally posted by Dave_7
Well... maybe the law is intended (for among other reasons) to discourage exhuming a medal of honor recipient and selling the award, eh?




Dave.

[ShawnLee]

Well, selling this offends me on so many levels, but I get annoyed easily when it comes to stuff like this. Like when Dennis Rodman used to go around wearing old Army uniforms with real medals on, I just look at that and think, "He didn't earn the right to wear that."
I think a museum would be the best place for a Medal of Honor. That's just me though.

[IrishSS]

Dear Ian,

Thanks for letting us know. It's amazing how many people find these! We have notified the FBI.

Sincerely,
Carol Cepregi
CMOHS
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian M
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: A concern...


As far as I am aware, it is against the law to sell a Congressional Medal of Honor. I happened across one on Ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172933892, and I wasnt sure to whom I shoudl report it to. I hope you can forward thsi information to the proper person.

[Joshua]

Who did you write to? AWOD.com seems to be web hosting... :spock:


Originally posted by IrishSS
Dear Ian,

Thanks for letting us know. It's amazing how many people find these! We have notified the FBI.

Sincerely,
Carol Cepregi
CMOHS
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian M
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: A concern...


As far as I am aware, it is against the law to sell a Congressional Medal of Honor. I happened across one on Ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172933892, and I wasnt sure to whom I shoudl report it to. I hope you can forward thsi information to the proper person.

[gear02]

Nice Irish. Well done.

[ShawnLee]

Good job, hopefully the G-men can deal with this.

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by ShawnLee105
Well, selling this offends me on so many levels, but I get annoyed easily when it comes to stuff like this. Like when Dennis Rodman used to go around wearing old Army uniforms with real medals on, I just look at that and think, "He didn't earn the right to wear that."
I think a museum would be the best place for a Medal of Honor. That's just me though.

I am glad that I am not the only one that is pi$$ed off by things like that.

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by IrishSS
Dear Ian,

Thanks for letting us know. It's amazing how many people find these! We have notified the FBI.

Sincerely,
Carol Cepregi
CMOHS
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian M
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: A concern...


As far as I am aware, it is against the law to sell a Congressional Medal of Honor. I happened across one on Ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172933892, and I wasnt sure to whom I shoudl report it to. I hope you can forward thsi information to the proper person.

Good job. :thumbup: I am glad someone sent an e-mail out complaining about this. I don't have an e-bay account and I was going to search their site for a contact addy, so I appreciate you not only e-mailing someone who can do something about it but also for saving me from having to do it. :thumbup: :)

[IrishSS]

Update...

Ebay and the FBI are currently investigating the matter. Hopefully the auction will be pulled soon.

[guiseppewv]

FYI: The auction is still up and running.

[Cubsfan]

I wonder what the exact legality of this is? If they are selling it IN Canada, TO a Canadian, maybe it is legal. But since the company is based in the USA, can they get in trouble?

(By the way, I agree with everone that this is just plain sick)

[guiseppewv]

Actually, the auction is taking place in the United States /Buffalo area.

[Nanotech9]

so ya'll deam it upon yourselves to just screw up someone elses stuff ehh?

i mean yeah i'm a bit offended by it, sure, but it doesnt affect me personally - its not my medal that they're selling, nor did it ever belong to my family, so why does it concern me, and why would i ever be the ******** to call it in on the FBI?

its kinda like driving down the street... in teh fast lane... you see a car coming up doing maybe 5mph over the limit... and for SOME UNKNOWN REASON you feel the urge to be an ahole and enforce the law on the other person by staying in that land blocking him... because you think its your "duty" to make him obey the law...

well, it isnt. He isnt hurting anyone, and it really isnt any concern of yours wheather or not hes speeding, so why should you GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to be a d!ick?

OH YEAH, before you jump on me about teh driving thing... its illegal for you to be the person blocking traffic IN THE PASSING LANE. Afterall, ITS THE PASSING LANE :) So pass, and get back over, and let others mind their own business and PASS. :)

[sbp]

But I like being a negative spoilsport. Its fun.

-Cantacuzene

[bachviet]

Originally posted by Nanotech9
so ya'll deam it upon yourselves to just screw up someone elses stuff ehh?

...
So if you see some a$$hole beats up or hurts somebody, you are not going to call the cops?

[ShawnLee]

It does affect me personally. It cheapens the worth of medals that members of the military earn. Whatever worth my military service had, it is cheapened by someone selling the Medal of Honor like it was a cheap toy. I have never earned the Medal of Honor, and probably will never receive it; however, it is the top medal the nation can give. If the Medal of Honor is degraded, so is every other award that is ever given, and that affects my friends, my family, and me.

[guiseppewv]

I have to agree with the posts above up to nanotech9's post. Nanotech9, give me a break. Speeding and trying to sell someone else's CMOH are two different things entirely. That is like comparing littering and stalking. Can you say apples and oranges? If someone ever had my grandfather's (who is deceased) WWII or Korean medals or service ribbons and they sold them I would be extremely pi$$ed off and he never earned the CMOH. People risked their lives not to earn medals but they received them b/c they did. You can't sell things like that. :fal:


Originally posted by ShawnLee105
It does affect me personally. It cheapens the worth of medals that members of the military earn. Whatever worth my military service had, it is cheapened by someone selling the Medal of Honor like it was a cheap toy. I have never earned the Medal of Honor, and probably will never receive it; however, it is the top medal the nation can give. If the Medal of Honor is degraded, so is every other award that is ever given, and that affects my friends, my family, and me.

Couldn't have said it better. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

[cheapie]

Originally posted by bachviet

So if you see some a$$hole beats up or hurts somebody, you are not going to call the cops?


ummm....i'm not sure that what he's saying....


lol. when i first saw this post, i thought people were complaining that they were selling the game MOH. i was like, "WTF? who cares?"

http://images.ea.com/eagames/official/moh_alliedassault/top/_1.jpg

[ShawnLee]

Yeah, I don't think anybody really cares about the game.
"Damned it! They have my grandpa's copy of the game!"

[Nija]

Originally posted by ShawnLee105
Yeah, I don't think anybody really cares about the game.
"Damned it! They have my grandpa's copy of the game!"

I care about the game

:)

[Nanotech9]

Originally posted by bachviet

So if you see some a$$hole beats up or hurts somebody, you are not going to call the cops?

and if you cant see the difference between that and selling a MOH on ebay, then you're blind and theres no way i can explain it to you.

and guiseppewv - when ever your grandad's medals show up on ebay, then you've got the right to get extremely pissed - because then it affects you personally.

otherwise, keep your nose out of peoples business that doesnt concern you.

FYI - Medals are simply something that was made at a factory (or maybe even hand made in some cases). I DO understand what they symbolize, but still, they're just objects. Wheather or not someone sells their medal, doesnt change what they did for the country. They dont need a medal to know they went out there and kicked ass and risked their life for me and you.

anyway, i'm not trying to be an ahole or anything, i'm just passing along my opinion. I think people need to be less concerned about what everyone else is doing wrong, and worry more about themselves....

[avlena]

out of curiosity, do u guys think it would be okay if the person who received the medal, or even the person's family, was selling it? i'm not saying that's the scenario here, but is there ever a case where u guys think it IS okay to sell something that meaningful? like, for example, what if the family hit hard times, and had to sell their personal belongings to survive? is this a b & w issue of it's always wrong to sell it, or are there gray spots? just curious...

[IrishSS]

I understand selling things, but not a CMOH or any medal for that reason. Do you people realize what has to be done in order to even be considered for one of these? This isnt a Bronze star or a Purple Heart. This is the absolute highest honor you can receive. These people are to be respected and honored, dead or alive. Selling a MOH, especially if it isnt yours, is downright disgusting to me. That man put his life on the line, above and beyond the call of duty to save others. How can you put a price on that?

[bachviet]

Originally posted by IrishSS
I understand selling things, but not a CMOH or any medal for that reason. Do you people realize what has to be done in order to even be considered for one of these? This isnt a Bronze star or a Purple Heart. This is the absolute highest honor you can receive. These people are to be respected and honored, dead or alive. Selling a MOH, especially if it isnt yours, is downright disgusting to me. That man put his life on the line, above and beyond the call of duty to save others. How can you put a price on that?
It's priceless. Whenever someone wears a CMOH, even the generals/admirals have to salute him first.

[ShawnLee]

Originally posted by avlena
out of curiosity, do u guys think it would be okay if the person who received the medal, or even the person's family, was selling it? i'm not saying that's the scenario here, but is there ever a case where u guys think it IS okay to sell something that meaningful? like, for example, what if the family hit hard times, and had to sell their personal belongings to survive? is this a b & w issue of it's always wrong to sell it, or are there gray spots? just curious...

I don't think there's much gray here. Selling this is pretty bad. If the family is in that bad of a spot that they need the money that badly? Well, it sucks, but selling it is still bad. I'd equate it to selling off a family member for money. But again, that's just me.

[Fas-ligand]

Makes you wonder why the reason the medal is being sold. It must be because of difficult times to discard something so treasured, or it could be a theif that stole it from someone....dunno. In any case, the deed that it was received for is worth much more than the medal itself, and this is what I believe is what is really important here.

[avlena]

*shrug* maybe the seller doesn't really see it as anything more then a piece of metal. the award and honor is something no one can take away, and not everyone sees the honor and the medal as one and the same.

random example of my point... Tom Hanks has an oscar right? do you know where his statue is? do you care? if you find out he no longer has his statues, is he no longer an oscar winner? of course not, he received the honor, and nothing will take that away from him, regardless of the physical posession of little gold statuettes.

if the medal is being sold to a collector, by the proper owner, then i don't think it diminishes the honor. I wouldn't want to see it worn on some random teenage kid as a fashion statement, but i don't think the mere act of selling the medal takes anything away from the true honor of the award.

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by Nanotech9

and guiseppewv - when ever your grandad's medals show up on ebay, then you've got the right to get extremely pissed - because then it affects you personally.

otherwise, keep your nose out of peoples business that doesnt concern you.


anyway, i'm not trying to be an ahole or anything, i'm just passing along my opinion. I think people need to be less concerned about what everyone else is doing wrong, and worry more about themselves....

I do have a right to be pi$$ed. The selling of that medal degrades the respect of all the people who have ever received a medal for military duty. So, yes, this does affect me personally.


And as far as the comparison to the oscars go...oscars and military medals are two way different things. Tom Hanks never risked his life to receive his oscar.

[guiseppewv]

Besides all of my feelings about this debate here are the cold hard facts:

It is illegal to sell, wear, or manufacture any decorations or medals authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States.

In General. - Whoever knowingly wears, manufactures, or sells any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fixed under this title (18 United State Code) or imprisoned not more than six months or both.

Title 18 United States Code. Sec. 1001, entitled "Statements or entries generally," June 25, 1948, ch. 45, 62 Stat. 749.

[avlena]

Originally posted by guiseppewv

And as far as the comparison to the oscars go...oscars and military medals are two way different things. Tom Hanks never risked his life to receive his oscar.

not the point. i'm not trying to say that the oscar is anywhere near the same level as the MOH. the point is that while you see the medal as representing this incredible high honor that desearves all the respect in the world, perhaps the owner does not feel the same about a metal star. the honor and the piece of metal might be completely seperate in his/her mind, just as the golden statue and oscar honor are seperate in your mind.

[avlena]

Originally posted by guiseppewv
Besides all of my feelings about this debate here are the cold hard facts:

It is illegal to sell, wear, or manufacture any decorations or medals authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States.

In General. - Whoever knowingly wears, manufactures, or sells any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fixed under this title (18 United State Code) or imprisoned not more than six months or both.

Title 18 United States Code. Sec. 1001, entitled "Statements or entries generally," June 25, 1948, ch. 45, 62 Stat. 749.

my apologies, i thought we had reached a moral discussion about whether or not it's right to sell the medal, not whether or not it's illegal. by all means, it's definitely illegal (though maybe not in canada!). btw, if you guys really wanna see something horrible, take a walk down the streets of vietnam, and you can see all sorts of medals sold by poor bums on the street, from dead US and Vietnamese soldiers.

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by avlena


not the point. i'm not trying to say that the oscar is anywhere near the same level as the MOH. the point is that while you see the medal as representing this incredible high honor that desearves all the respect in the world, perhaps the owner does not feel the same about a metal star. the honor and the piece of metal might be completely seperate in his/her mind, just as the golden statue and oscar honor are seperate in your mind.

I am willing to bet that the recepient of this medal is dead. Considering they were born in 1868, which would make him 134 years old. Also, I can only imagine that the recepient feels very honored to hold the distinction of having the honor of being rewarded with the CMOH.

Although I did just notice this:
We are offering this medal for sale from our office in CANADA.

I didn't see this before but if you ask me this person is trying to use this "office in CANADA" thing as a BS way of skirting the law.

[avlena]

Originally posted by guiseppewv

I am willing to bet that the recepient of this medal is dead. Considering they were born in 1868, which would make him 134 years old.


i know... my question from earlier concerned whether or not there was every a gray area where it might be okay for the recpient or his/her family to sell it. so, i'm not really debating this particular sale, or the legality or not, i'm questioning the morality of it in general...


Originally posted by guiseppewv

Also, I can only imagine that the recepient feels very honored to hold the distinction of having the honor of being rewarded with the CMOH.


huh?

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by avlena



huh?

You said:

the point is that while you see the medal as representing this incredible high honor that desearves all the respect in the world, perhaps the owner does not feel the same about a metal star

And I said:

Also, I can only imagine that the recepient feels very honored to hold the distinction of having the honor of being rewarded with the CMOH.

[guiseppewv]

I guess I get a golden shovel medal/award for this. :)


In 2003, Edward Fedora and Gisela Fedora were charged with violating (18 U.S.C. § 704(b)) - Unlawful Sale of a Medal of Honor. They sold medals awarded to U.S. Navy Seaman Robert Blume (for action in the Spanish-American War) and to U.S. Army First Sergeant George Washington Roosevelt (for action in the Civil War) to an FBI agent.[50] Edward Fedora, a Canadian businessman,[51] pleaded guilty and was sentenced to prison;[52] Gisela Fedora's status is unknown.


I think the first person mentioned in the quote above was the dude who was selling the MOH that was referenced in this thread. I am glad that this person got to spend a little time in the slammer.

[ShawnLee]

Wow - good find GWV. And good riddance. I remember this thread...