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View Full Version : Texas Dems don't get their way, run for border.



sbp
05-14-2003, 12:02 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,86820,00.html
WASHINGTON — The floor of the Texas House was a quiet place Tuesday despite the fact that business is pending in the state Legislature.

Senate Republicans who make up 88 of the 150 seats in the House had wanted to vote on a redistricting plan that would likely have saved several Republican congressional seats and possibly could lead to an increase in the number of Republicans elected to the U.S. Congress.

But more than 50 House Democrats would have none of it, and in a surprise — and illegal — move, they went into hiding in a hotel/command center in neighboring Oklahoma, defying House rules that say lawmakers cannot intentionally miss a quorum call.

"One powerful member of Congress has wrongly decided to usurp the power given to 150 members of the Texas House in order to establish an unquestionable hold on national power," said Rep. Richard Raymond, pointing the finger at U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

The diversion started Sunday night when 58 Texas Democrats slipped across the Red River to take up temporary residence at a Holiday Inn in Ardmore, Okla. On Monday, Republican Gov. Rick Perry sent the Texas Rangers to Ardmore to arrest and escort the AWOL Democrats back to Austin, a move allowed under the Texas Constitution.

However, Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry, a Democrat, prevented the retrieval, saying the Texas Rangers had no jurisdiction inside the Sooner State. Trooper pleas to the lawmakers to return voluntarily failed.

On Tuesday, the troopers did find one Democrat, Rep. Helen Giddings, who while supporting her colleagues, agreed to return to the Legislature to take care of business. She was escorted by police car back to the Capitol building. Others also returned of their own will, leaving 51 at large, one shy of the quorum call of 100.

Democrats say they should not be required to redraw district lines, particularly after a federal court drew Texas' congressional districts when state lawmakers failed to do so in 2001. They say it is a non-districting year.

"Congressman DeLay is wrong to upset a process that should be left to deal with every 10 years. We believe we are right in our efforts to stop him," Raymond said of DeLay's redistricting plan.

DeLay, who wants to turn around the 17-15 Democratic majority in the state's congressional delegation, said he has never seen lawmakers turn tail and hide when legislation wasn't going their way.

"I think this is outrageous, particularly for Texans, to turn and run from a good fight. This is about the Constitution and their responsibility to redistrict and apportion according to the Constitution, Article 1, Section 2. It is very specific."

By law, the state Legislature is allowed to revisit the court's decision in off years. Despite his aggravation, DeLay did have some fun with the turn of events, passing out an altered photo of the hotel Democrats were staying in with the Texas Statehouse dome morphed on top.

"We don't act like Texas legislators but we did stay at the Holiday Inn Express," the caption reads.

State House Republicans also had some fun while they waited. They quickly printed up a deck of playing cards featuring pictures of the missing Democrats. A pair of milk cartons circulated around the chamber, plastered with the faces of missing Democrats.

Still, a subdued House Speaker Tom Craddick said there is no room for negotiations on the vote.

"It is a state's right to redistrict. We weren't allowed that right the last session of the Legislature by a Democrat-controlled speaker and a Democratic-controlled Legislature," Craddick said.

If lawmakers miss the Thursday deadline for preliminary votes in the House, any legislation that comes to the floor will need a two-thirds vote to pass. Several major bills, including a budget-balancing government reorganization proposal, could fall victim to the deadline.

Late Tuesday, State Republican Chairman Susan Weddington wrote Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle to ask him to investigate if any of the meetings in Oklahoma were in violation of state law.

"Unfortunately, news reports indicate that the group has been discussing legislative matters. There is a concern that these discussions may actually be a violation of the Open Meetings Laws, because it appears the members on the House Committees on Pensions and Investments, and Land and Resource Management have a majority of their members present, thus producing a quorum," she wrote.

Democrats denied that any of their conduct in Oklahoma fell under the category of House business.

Despite the legal wrangling, Texas Democratic Rep. Martin Frost said he hailed the Democrats for their courage.

"They are doing the right thing. They are in the best Texas tradition. They are heroes."

State Rep. Pete Gallago expressed surprise as well at the impact of the caucus' actions.

"This has been a tremendous bonding experience for those of us who are here. It is not an easy thing to get over 50 members of the Legislature to agree on lunch, much less to agree on a trip to our neighboring state of Oklahoma," he said.

Oklahoma Gov. Henry said the lawmakers were welcome to stay as long as they like, saying their business is good for the state's economy.

This is not the first time lawmakers have gone into hiding in Texas. Twenty-four years ago, 12 state senators hid out in defiance of Republican Lt. Gov. Bill Hobby. They became known as the "Killer Bees" and they hid out in a garage in Austin and played poker while Texas Rangers scoured the state looking for them.

Fox News' Brian Wilson and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Wanted dead or alive. http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/wink2.gif

eSDee
05-14-2003, 12:09 AM
Damn both parties are acting more and more like children these days. I say we abolish them both!

gear02
05-14-2003, 05:43 AM
ah...yes...I'm so proud of my home state...

:(

guiseppewv
05-14-2003, 06:27 AM
I feel your pain. I am proud of my state too. Here is a look into the WV governor's life:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/12/governor.apology.ap/index.html

The only thing I can say is that at least he was man enough to admit he had done something wrong unlike the Clinton/Lewinski scandal. Unfortunately it still does not look good for our state. :(


Originally posted by gear02
ah...yes...I'm so proud of my home state...

:(

xsiled2
05-14-2003, 07:05 AM
Wise, a Democrat

no way:hmm: :heh:

Joshua
05-14-2003, 08:27 AM
"We don't act like Texas legislators but we did stay at the Holiday Inn Express," the caption reads.

State House Republicans also had some fun while they waited. They quickly printed up a deck of playing cards featuring pictures of the missing Democrats. A pair of milk cartons circulated around the chamber, plastered with the faces of missing Democrats.


Now THAT is freakin funny!

guiseppewv
05-14-2003, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by SnotRocket


Now THAT is freakin funny!

That is funny. :D

psycho-
05-14-2003, 09:15 AM
And this is different from normal politicking behaviour in what way?


I have to admit though, the demos are acting like total crybabies in this situation.

Cantacuzene
05-14-2003, 09:24 AM
I guess they dont have a filibuster power in Texas. I recognize that what they are doign is technically wrong, but you have to create comprimise somehow.

whitak24
05-14-2003, 09:26 AM
one could also argue that the republicans are being the crybabies, seeing as how they didn't get their way during the normal redistricting process and now are trying to use their majority to force things their way.

of course, i'm sure they're not gerrymandering (i'm sure the dems aren't either).

face it, the redistricting process has devolved into a quest for political power and both parties try to manipulate the process to give themselves as many favorable districts as possible. the texas dems are playing political hardball here, just as the republicans are.

it's the process that needs to be fixed.....

whitak24
05-14-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by guiseppewv
I feel your pain. I am proud of my state too. Here is a look into the WV governor's life:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/12/governor.apology.ap/index.html
there is this great sushi place in downtown charleston and i would always see bob wise down there with his staffers, lobbyist types, etc.

guiseppewv
05-14-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by whitak24

there is this great sushi place in downtown charleston and i would always see bob wise down there with his staffers, lobbyist types, etc.

Although I don't live in Chucktown, I have been to the place you are talking about, the name escapes me right now. It is right over by the county courthouse, though. If you live in MI what were you doing in Chucktown?

Bob Wise is an idiot.

guiseppewv
05-14-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Cantacuzene
I guess they dont have a filibuster power in Texas. I recognize that what they are doign is technically wrong, but you have to create comprimise somehow.

Not technically wrong, it IS wrong. In order to get their way they had to flee the state which they represent? Childish.

Jenny
05-14-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by whitak24
it's the process that needs to be fixed.....

While this may be true (and I am not saying it is or isn't - I don't know enough about it to voice an opinion), that DOESN'T mean that just because you don't like it, you get to break the law. Work to CHANGE the law but do it while you are not breaking it...

That goes for a lot of things. Abortion is the one that comes strongest in mind to me. I am a FIRM opponent of abortion. But if I want to change the law, I think I should do it LEGALLY and not go and bomb abortion clinics or what not to get my point across. :shrug:

whitak24
05-14-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by guiseppewv


Although I don't live in Chucktown, I have been to the place you are talking about, the name escapes me right now. It is right over by the county courthouse, though. If you live in MI what were you doing in Chucktown?

Bob Wise is an idiot.
i can't think of the name either....it's in a little strip plaza right across from the charleston town center by a decent chinese restaurant and a REALLY BAD mexican place.

i worked in Charleston for about six months back in 2001 (actually, i was at the Union Carbide Tech Center in South Charleston). i was assisting with the SAP implementation that was part of the Dow/UC ingegration.

i liked the town decently well. stuff at the mall was hella cheap, there were a good number of decent restaurants, and the airport was pretty convenient. good times :D

whitak24
05-14-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Jenny


While this may be true (and I am not saying it is or isn't - I don't know enough about it to voice an opinion), that DOESN'T mean that just because you don't like it, you get to break the law. Work to CHANGE the law but do it while you are not breaking it...
i agree, to a certain extent.

however, i think that a procedural law about the operations of the legislature is different than a law protecting public safety or the like.

to me, it's all political manuvering (i mean, really, are the republicans sending out the state troopers to arrest one of their members who skips a roll-call vote to go to a fundraiser or an event back in their district?).

raimin
05-14-2003, 12:08 PM
if they can i will also...

if there ever is a draft, i'm running to canada :p

guiseppewv
05-14-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by raimin
if they can i will also...

if there ever is a draft, i'm running to canada :p

I hope you were joking, if not: If you run to Canada I hope someone hunts you down. Just b/c they broke they fled the state doesn't mean that in a time of war, which is probably the only time we would have a draft, you can flee the country. If you aren't willing to fight for the country you should just leave now. My harshly honest opinion.

zenbooty
05-14-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by guiseppewv
If you aren't willing to fight for the country you should just leave now.Countries suck. I didn't choose to be born and raised here, and no matter where I go I will be in SOMEBODY'S country. Why should I have to fight just because I'm here? I didn't sign anything that said I had to go kill and/or die for this hunk of rock.

Cantacuzene
05-14-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by guiseppewv
If you aren't willing to fight for the country you should just leave now. My harshly honest opinion.

It depends on the war. If teh draft was instituted to fight a defensive war, such as ww2 thats fine. But if tehe war is about imperialism I dont think a draft is acceptable. There is a reason people protested the draft in vietnam and not ww2. Saying that all american wars have been equally legitimate is just ignoring reality.

guiseppewv
05-14-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by zenbooty
Countries suck. I didn't choose to be born and raised here, and no matter where I go I will be in SOMEBODY'S country. Why should I have to fight just because I'm here? I didn't sign anything that said I had to go kill and/or die for this hunk of rock.

If you choose to live and receive the benefits of living here (i.e. not having to live in a 3rd world conditions) then you have to also take some of the "negatives" that go along with all of the bennies that you get.

guiseppewv
05-14-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Cantacuzene


It depends on the war. If teh draft was instituted to fight a defensive war, such as ww2 thats fine. But if tehe war is about imperialism I dont think a draft is acceptable. There is a reason people protested the draft in vietnam and not ww2. Saying that all american wars have been equally legitimate is just ignoring reality.

Vietnam was about imperialism? Please check your definition of imperialism. In Vietnam we were trying to keep a free country free. The french were the imerialists there not us.

Peachhead
05-14-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Cantacuzene


It depends on the war. If teh draft was instituted to fight a defensive war, such as ww2 thats fine. But if tehe war is about imperialism I dont think a draft is acceptable. There is a reason people protested the draft in vietnam and not ww2. Saying that all american wars have been equally legitimate is just ignoring reality.

oh, jeeeeeeeeeez. :disa:

zenbooty
05-14-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by guiseppewv
If you choose to live and receive the benefits of living here (i.e. not having to live in a 3rd world conditions) then you have to also take some of the "negatives" that go along with all of the bennies that you get. But you miss my point. If there were no countries, there would be no armies, no patriotism, no jingoism, no enemy, and thus no need to fight for these benefits that are really a result of constructive work.

guiseppewv
05-14-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by zenbooty
But you miss my point. If there were no countries, there would be no armies, no patriotism, no jingoism, no enemy, and thus no need to fight for these benefits that are really a result of constructive work.

Gotcha, I did miss your point. Sorry. :)

eSDee
05-14-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by guiseppewv


I hope you were joking, if not: If you run to Canada I hope someone hunts you down. Just b/c they broke they fled the state doesn't mean that in a time of war, which is probably the only time we would have a draft, you can flee the country. If you aren't willing to fight for the country you should just leave now. My harshly honest opinion.

Chill out man :2far:

Butch
05-14-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by zenbooty
But you miss my point. If there were no countries, there would be no armies, no patriotism, no jingoism, no enemy, and thus no need to fight for these benefits that are really a result of constructive work.

In my view, it's human nature to make alliances of some sort. If there is no country to ally with, people will ally with those most "like" them . . . and you end up with divisions along ethnic or religious lines . . . which leads to ethnic and religious wars.

All the war . . . none of the benefits . . .

Just my opinion . . .

Cantacuzene
05-14-2003, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by guiseppewv


Vietnam was about imperialism? Please check your definition of imperialism. In Vietnam we were trying to keep a free country free. The french were the imerialists there not us.

We were there because we bought the domino theory and we didnt want our empire to become #2 to the other empire.

America, as well as every other country ever, has always acted in their own interests or whatever they percieved their interests to be. Especially in war. No one is going to die over something they dont percieve to be to their benefit.

If America is the staunch supporter of elected democracies why is it that we over turned an elected government in Chile in the 1970's and replaced it with a right wing dictatorship? Truth is we only like other democracies when they agree with us 100% of the time (read:france). We would prefer a dictatorship who loves us than a democracy that hates us.

Dave_7
05-14-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by zenbooty
But you miss my point. If there were no countries, there would be no armies, no patriotism, no jingoism, no enemy, and thus no need to fight for these benefits that are really a result of constructive work.


Wow... kumbayah, man.





Dave.