Saddam bunker a White House hoax?

[zenbooty]

No Bunker where U.S. Bombs Targeted Saddam-CBS
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Baghdad bunker which the United States said it bombed on the opening night of the Iraq (news - web sites) war in a bid to kill Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) never existed, CBS Evening News reported Wednesday.

The network quoted a U.S. Army colonel in charge of inspecting key sites in Baghdad as saying no trace of a bunker or of bodies had been found at the site on the southern outskirts of the Iraqi capital, known as Dora Farms.

"When we came out here, the primary thing they were looking for was an underground facility, or bodies, forensics, and basically, what they saw was giant holes created. No underground facilities, no bodies," Col. Tim Madere said.

CBS, saying it was the first news organization to visit the site, reported that the CIA (news - web sites) had searched it once and Col. Madere had searched it twice as part of efforts to find traces of DNA that could indicate if Saddam or his sons had been killed or wounded.

The network said the main palace in the compound remained standing despite the surrounding destruction. It quoted Madere as saying anyone who had been in the building could have survived the raid.

Shortly after the attack, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters: "There's no question but that the strike on that leadership headquarters was successful. We have photographs of what took place. The question is, what was in there?"

The United States effectively acknowledged that the March 20 raid failed to kill Saddam when it launched a second air attack aimed at the Iraqi president on April 7.

The fate of Saddam and his sons Uday and Qusay is still unclear.

Rumsfeld said earlier this month, "If you don't have evidence he's dead, you've probably got to assume he's alive."

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Ah, now that the fog of war is finally starting to lift, I'm sure this won't be the last story we hear about White House propaganda, lies, and misdirection. :mad:

[Cantacuzene]

Just as long as it doesn't turn out that his "bunker" was a hospital I think we are OK.

[blueindian]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Ah, now that the fog of war is finally starting to lift, I'm sure this won't be the last story we hear about White House propaganda, lies, and misdirection. :mad:

sadly, you are probably right. just yesterday the whitehouse relased something (according to NPR) that was talking about how the big focus and hype surrounding WMD was purly diplomatic.

[guiseppewv]

Why can't I find this story on cbsnews.com or any of the other news websites? I looked at nytimes.com, usatoday.com, cnn.com, etc... Just curious. Sounds like a pretty big story and since the time/date stamp was from yesterday (Wed May 28, 8:39 PM ET) I would think that some other news agency would be reporting on it too. Can anyone point me in the right direction?:confused:

[Cubsfan]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/28/eveningnews/main555948.shtml

[topane]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030529/ts_nm/iraq_bunker_report_dc_2

[edit]
Oops, beat me to it :P.

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by topane
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030529/ts_nm/iraq_bunker_report_dc_2

[edit]
Oops, beat me to it :P.

Yep, this is the same one that zenbooty posted above but this is not the cbs website.

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by Cubsfan
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/28/eveningnews/main555948.shtml

Although this story is similar to the one zenbooty posted it isn't the same. Thank you for the link, b/c I didn't see anything on it when I first looked. :)

I did post the text below so everyone could read the actual CBS news story.



(CBS) The mystery of what happened to Saddam Hussein begins at a palace compound called Dora Farms on the southern outskirts of Baghdad. The war began here ten weeks ago when the U.S. dropped bombs and cruise missiles in an attempt to kill the Iraqi dictator.

CBS News became the first news organization to visit Dora Farms.

CBS National Security Correspondent David Martin found that U.S. intelligence was wrong about one crucial fact and the strike was not a complete success despite Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's March 21 statement that "the strike on that leadership headquarters was successful."

And despite comments by the Air Force general who commanded the strike that if Saddam was there he was probably killed.

No one has searched Dora Farms more carefully than Tim Madere, a U.S. Army colonel assigned the task of searching sensitive sites.

Madere says no bodies have been found here.

The Air Force dropped four 2,000-pound bombs on the site because intelligence said there was a bunker complex hidden beneath the buildings. But Madere has yet to find it.

The compound has been searched three times – once by the CIA and twice by Madere, trying to find Saddam's DNA.

"When we came out here the primary thing they were looking for was an underground facility, or bodies, forensics," says Madere. "And basically what they saw was giant holes created. No underground facilities, no bodies."

Every structure in the compound was destroyed, except one building – the main palace – hidden behind a wall topped by electrified barbed wire. It's a shambles, windows have been blown out, but it is not destroyed.

Madere says a person in the house "could have survived."

One weapon clearly missed the compound. Others landed just outside the wall, destroying other buildings.

This doesn't solve the mystery of what happened to Saddam, but the clues at Dora Farms leave no doubt he could have survived.

[whitak24]

i'm not sure this was necessarily propaganda/a knowing lie from the government.

it's possible that they had faulty intelligence -- if they knew that no underground bunkers existed, it doesn't seem like they would send search parties to try to find saddam's remains.

this is not to say that the Pentagon didn't construct a lot of "events" during the war for the benefit of the media, such as the supposed rescue of Jessica Lynch that is now looking like a possible "hoax"

[topane]

Maybe one of our MOABs totally annihilated the bunker.

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by whitak24
i'm not sure this was necessarily propaganda/a knowing lie from the government.

it's possible that they had faulty intelligence -- if they knew that no underground bunkers existed, it doesn't seem like they would send search parties to try to find saddam's remains.

this is not to say that the Pentagon didn't construct a lot of "events" during the war for the benefit of the media, such as the supposed rescue of Jessica Lynch that is now looking like a possible "hoax"

How was her rescue a hoax? Are you saying she was never a POW?

[topane]

Originally posted by guiseppewv


How was her rescue a hoax? Are you saying she was never a POW? The stories we heard about the rescue were a little embellished.

http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125~1511~1410569,00.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=46688937
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0%2C2763%2C956255%2C00.html

[guiseppewv]

Originally posted by topane
The stories we heard about the rescue were a little embellished.

http://www.timesstar.com/Stories/0,1413,125~1511~1410569,00.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=46688937
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0%2C2763%2C956255%2C00.html

I don't agree with any of these stories but I do agree that the rescue was embellished. The same embellishment has been going on since the first time combat took place in the world. The news and the protesters of the war embellished how our military was getting bogged down and that things weren't going well with the war when we took the time outside of Baghdad to allow our supply lines to catch up and to allow time for the encirclement of Baghdad but, now, looking back I would say that it is safe to say that we weren't bogged down and that things were going well.

[Booyamos]

Originally posted by topane
Maybe one of our MOABs totally annihilated the bunker.

lol MOAB!!! man those things are sweet. I found a video of them testing them.. damn, bada boom! Big Boom!

aha, here it is http://www.militaryhp.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=2 (real player file)

[whitak24]

Originally posted by guiseppewv


I don't agree with any of these stories but I do agree that the rescue was embellished. The same embellishment has been going on since the first time combat took place in the world. The news and the protesters of the war embellished how our military was getting bogged down and that things weren't going well with the war when we took the time outside of Baghdad to allow our supply lines to catch up and to allow time for the encirclement of Baghdad but, now, looking back I would say that it is safe to say that we weren't bogged down and that things were going well.
"embellished". that's a far better word than "hoax", and says what i was trying to say in a far better way. (apparently, i haven't been using oc's word of the day threads enough :heh: )

anyway, i think that the problem here is that it appears (if investigations from the BBC are accurate) that the Pentagon ignored chances to bring lynch home earlier when she was offered by the iraqis running the hospital. in addition, it appears that they may have staged the "rescue" to make it look like a fight when they actually could have just walked in.

also, there were the myths about her "fighting to the death" and suffering shot and stab wounds and the idea that the iraqis were mistreating her and not giving her proper medical care. all of these things seem to be completely untrue in retrospect.

i think that if, in fact this was a concerted effort by the government to mislead the american public about what was going on in the situation in order to make some heroes and give some compelling footage to foxnews, it sets a dangerous precedent. i expect the government, in a time of war, to be honest rather than wasting their time trying to drum up support for their war. you seem to indicate that the government has, and always will, use propaganda during wartime to rev up the population. perhaps, but that doesn't mean i like it, or that it will do anything but question and distrust what the government is telling us even more than i already do.

[topane]

Originally posted by guiseppewv


I don't agree with any of these stories but I do agree that the rescue was embellished. The same embellishment has been going on since the first time combat took place in the world. The news and the protesters of the war embellished how our military was getting bogged down and that things weren't going well with the war when we took the time outside of Baghdad to allow our supply lines to catch up and to allow time for the encirclement of Baghdad but, now, looking back I would say that it is safe to say that we weren't bogged down and that things were going well. Criticism from retired armchair generals looking to get their mugs on TV is a far cry from outright lying. Running into a hospital firing blanks? Come on, how much "embellishment" do you need? If they were expecting danger they would have had real bullets. They didn't, therefore there was no danger.