View Full Version : Say it ain't so, Sosa!
Cubsfan
06-03-2003, 07:02 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0603/1562772.html
CHICAGO -- Chicago Cubs star Sammy Sosa was ejected in the first inning of Tuesday night's game against Tampa Bay right when umpires found cork in his shattered bat.
ESPN's Harold Reynolds reports -- after talking to a a representative in the Cubs public relations department -- that Sosa will admit in his postgame presser that the bat he used tonight was corked.
Sosa will say the bat is usually used in home run hitting exhibitions but somehow it got mixed in with his game bats. He says he has never used a corked bat in a major league game before tonight.
The Cubs had runners at second and third when Sosa broke his bat with a grounder to second that at first appeared to drive in a run.
But crew chief Tim McClelland gathered with the other three umpires to examine the bat. Cubs manager Dusty Baker came out and the umpires showed the bat to him.
Mark Grudzielanek was sent back to third base, the run was wiped off the board and Sosa was ejected as he stood in the dugout.
Oh man, this is really disappointing. I hope his explination is true, but I'm not really counting on it.
whitak24
06-03-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Cubsfan
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0603/1562772.html
Oh man, this is really disappointing. I hope his explination is true, but I'm not really counting on it.
i hope so too.
sosa has always seemed to me to be a model of citizenship, decorum, and sportsmanship, not to mention great athletic talent.
i have a hard time buying this supposed explaination, but i'd like to think the best of him.
i guess we'll see how it develops.....
brainsmile
06-03-2003, 09:12 PM
maybe he was going to bottle some whine later :P It's disappointing but then again they're under a lot of pressure. It's not surprising in the whole scheme of things.
IrishSS
06-03-2003, 10:30 PM
I dont mean to stir up any contraversy here, but can you honestly say Sammy is a completley honest player? Look at him and his numbers over his career. He was a super scrawny tall kid who hits 20, 25 HR's a year. Now, hes a huge mother of a power hitter who belts 68? I don't think so. Can you say steroids? Same goes for Barry... guy hits 20, 30 a year and then explodes for 73 at age 40-something? Please... That has Steroids written all over it.
Now Sammy may be a great person and all, but I don't for one second believe he's a legit player. Remember when Jim Rome (I think that was who it was) asked Sammy to make good on his promise to get tested for 'roids and Sammy went into a tirade and refused? Another point against him...
coleslaw
06-04-2003, 06:26 AM
One argument in Sammy's favor is that when the bat broke, he didn't hang on to the handle as he ran to first. If I was using a corked bat that shattered, I'd hang on to that handle, get thrown out at first and then sprint for the other part of my bat before anyone else got to it. The way Sammy was acting, it didn't appear that he knew.
gear02
06-04-2003, 06:42 AM
I for one would like to believe him, but my instinct tells me he's lying. This is bad for him, since now he'll be placed in the same category as all the others. Down the road when another such corked bat gets revealed, they'll show footage of him just like they showed footage of Wilton Guerrero and others.
whitak24
06-04-2003, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by IrishSS
I dont mean to stir up any contraversy here, but can you honestly say Sammy is a completley honest player? Look at him and his numbers over his career. He was a super scrawny tall kid who hits 20, 25 HR's a year. Now, hes a huge mother of a power hitter who belts 68? I don't think so. Can you say steroids? Same goes for Barry... guy hits 20, 30 a year and then explodes for 73 at age 40-something? Please... That has Steroids written all over it.
Now Sammy may be a great person and all, but I don't for one second believe he's a legit player. Remember when Jim Rome (I think that was who it was) asked Sammy to make good on his promise to get tested for 'roids and Sammy went into a tirade and refused? Another point against him...
i agree with you here. i have to question both sosa and bonds as far as whether they've been on the juice.
of course, MLB could solve the problem with a comprehensive steroid ban and testing program, but that would make too much sense, so the players' union opposes it :rolleyes:
coleslaw
06-04-2003, 08:49 AM
It seems to be taking them a while to check Sammy's other bats. How long does it take to take a hack saw to a few bats and report back with the findings? :hmm:
asker
06-04-2003, 09:37 AM
whitak24, you forgot Mark McGwire. He too looks nothing like he did when he was with the Oakland A's. I'd like to through out a lot of these "records" that are being set by guys who are doing a lot more than weight training and eating healthy. I don't know if Sammy's guilty or innocent. If this was his regular practice I would think that this would have been discovered long before now.
nairda9
06-04-2003, 09:41 AM
Isn't the point of having a corked bat making the bat feel lighter? So even if it did get mixed into his "regular" bat supply, wouldn't he have felt the difference?
As for the Bonds-Sosa roids subject. I have no doubt that a lot of players take them, but at the same time it takes a lot more than just being strong to hit homers. Bonds batted 328 when he hit 73 homers, and 370 last year. Dunn for the Reds is leading the majors in homers this year with 18, but his batting average is 200. Strikes out more than he walks.
xsiled2
06-04-2003, 09:43 AM
yeah this is pathetic and his excuse was horrible, why would you use a lighter bat for practice that doesnt make any sense. bonds on the other hand is a pansy wearing 2 inches of armor because he stands on the plate. i say throw for the head.
coleslaw
06-04-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by nairda9
I have no doubt that a lot of players take them, but at the same time it takes a lot more than just being strong to hit homers.
Imagine what might have happened if someone like Tony Gwynn was as physically strong as Bonds, Sosa and McGwire. Sure, Tony was a big guy, but not all of that bulk was muscle. Someone hitting close to .400 for as long as he did could do a lot of damage in terms of HRs.
Merlin
06-04-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by coleslaw
It seems to be taking them a while to check Sammy's other bats. How long does it take to take a hack saw to a few bats and report back with the findings? :hmm:
FYI - The bats are x-rayed. They don't cut them open unless the x-rays show that the bats have been hollowed out.
coleslaw
06-04-2003, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Merlin
FYI - The bats are x-rayed. They don't cut them open unless the x-rays show that the bats have been hollowed out.
Really?? I did not know that!
Why is this done? Is it so that if they do not find anything inside, they can return the bats to the player?
Merlin
06-04-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by nairda9
Isn't the point of having a corked bat making the bat feel lighter? So even if it did get mixed into his "regular" bat supply, wouldn't he have felt the difference?
Yes. The point of corking a bat is to make it lighter. Remember your high school physics - the lighter the bat is the less inertia your body overcomes and the more acceleration you get into your swing. With baseball the amount of strength you have or mass of the bat is far less important than "bat speed." Lighter bat = more bat speed = more home runs.
xsiled2
06-04-2003, 09:53 AM
random fact: Nettles(sp?) used super balls in his bats...
Merlin
06-04-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by coleslaw
Really?? I did not know that!
Why is this done? Is it so that if they do not find anything inside, they can return the bats to the player?
Yeah. Otherwise you'd have managers insisting that players "lucky bats" get destroyed all the time. Remember, if a manager thinks an opponent is using a loaded bat he can request it examined. But they won't destroy it unless there is a reason.
cheapie
06-04-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by IrishSS
Now Sammy may be a great person and all, but I don't for one second believe he's a legit player. Remember when Jim Rome (I think that was who it was) asked Sammy to make good on his promise to get tested for 'roids and Sammy went into a tirade and refused? Another point against him...
it was rick reilly from SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2002/07/02/life_of_reilly/)
Cubsfan
06-04-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by nairda9
Isn't the point of having a corked bat making the bat feel lighter? So even if it did get mixed into his "regular" bat supply, wouldn't he have felt the difference?
Well, I don't think it reduces the weight super-drastically, so he might not feel a few ounces difference.
nairda9
06-04-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Merlin
Yes. The point of corking a bat is to make it lighter. Remember your high school physics - the lighter the bat is the less inertia your body overcomes and the more acceleration you get into your swing. With baseball the amount of strength you have or mass of the bat is far less important than "bat speed." Lighter bat = more bat speed = more home runs.
This I know, I was more thinking along the lines of Sosa should have felt the difference between a corked bat and his regular one. So in case of the corked bat getting mixed in, he should have know and changed his bat. I mean they are corked and lighter for a reason, if corked bats felt the same as regular bats why bother using it?
nairda9
06-04-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Cubsfan
Well, I don't think it reduces the weight super-drastically, so he might not feel a few ounces difference.
I saw on ESPN when they showed how to cork a bat, that there is about an ounce difference. It might not be much but, these are their tools. If they are so fussy about how much pine tar they use, to how thick the handles are. I just think they can feel the difference between a few ounces.
Merlin
06-04-2003, 10:50 AM
When you just pick it up and go it is really difficult to tell if something is a ounce or two lighter. You may not feel it too much but it'll show up in your swing. And in my humble opinion there was no mistake. He knew which bat he had.
The part of this that really baffles my mind is trying to figure out what these guys are thinking. I mean really, we see several bats break every game. You've got to realize that it is only a matter of time before your breaks as well. And there is no hiding it then. A corked bat is something you just can't get away with for long.
whitak24
06-04-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by asker
whitak24, you forgot Mark McGwire. He too looks nothing like he did when he was with the Oakland A's. I'd like to through out a lot of these "records" that are being set by guys who are doing a lot more than weight training and eating healthy. I don't know if Sammy's guilty or innocent. If this was his regular practice I would think that this would have been discovered long before now.
i assumed mcgwire was a given, as he admitted that he was using supplements which are banned by basically every other athletic league.
but yes, he definitely was chemically enhanced.
faither
06-04-2003, 11:00 AM
Sosa's a longtime major league baseball player. There's no way I could believe he grabbed the wrong bat. Players treat their game bats like religious icons -- with reverence. They treat them better than their wives or girlfriends. He's full of crap. They confiscated the rest of his bats at Wrigley last night and I'd be interested in what they find. They should x-ray those in Cooperstown, too.
As a cheater that's been caught, he has tainted his accomplishments as a player.
nairda9
06-04-2003, 11:54 AM
Worse of all, he was playing against Tampa Devil Rays. The Rays are like a double A farm club.
IrishSS
06-04-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by whitak24
i assumed mcgwire was a given, as he admitted that he was using supplements which are banned by basically every other athletic league.
but yes, he definitely was chemically enhanced.
Now we all know that Mark was using Andro, but at the time, it was perfectly legal to do so, and I think it still is in MLB. But look at it this way too. He hit 49 HR's his rookie season when he was scrawny and new to the league. Was McGwire using supplements in 98? Yes. Did it contribute to his record-setting HR year? Possibly. Hard for me to say one way or the other. But if you look at his history, he's always been a .285 or so hitter with a ton of power, regardless of his body build. When he stayed healthy, he was probably the best HR hitter of our era. Lest we forget, he has the best HR/AB ratio ever. He did get gradually bigger as the years went on. It wasn't an explosion like some other players...
attgig
06-04-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by xsiled2
yeah this is pathetic and his excuse was horrible, why would you use a lighter bat for practice that doesnt make any sense. bonds on the other hand is a pansy wearing 2 inches of armor because he stands on the plate. i say throw for the head.
cuz he's a showman.
he has been since he started to hit the hr's
I'd buy that excuse. it's consistent to who he is.
Originally posted by nairda9
Isn't the point of having a corked bat making the bat feel lighter? So even if it did get mixed into his "regular" bat supply, wouldn't he have felt the difference?
actually if you watched baseball tonight last night about corking bats, they showed buck showalter corking a bat...
the difference was only one-1.5 ounces...prolly can't tell the difference between a 32 ounce bat and a 30 ounce bat.
coleslaw
06-04-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by DarkFury
I also thought that since cork is pourous... it also provides some kind of "trampoline effect" which also generates more power being reflected into the hit of the ball...
That may be true if you were trying to maximize distance while bunting (i.e. keeping the bat stationary in relation to a moving ball), but when you consider a baseball bat, both objects are moving towards each other before impact. Given this scenario, which would you rather hit a ball with? A very tightly drawn trampoline, or one that has a little "give" to it?
The key factors in determining the distance of a projectile launched from a collision are the speeds of those objects before the collision and the time of impact. A shorter impact time will result in a greater amount of power transferred from the more massive object to the lesser one. Of course the elasticity of the objects figures into these equations as well, but having a more "elastic" surface would only result in a longer impact time. ;)
CynJon
06-04-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by attgig
prolly can't tell the difference between a 32 ounce bat and a 30 ounce bat.
As a long time softball and baseball player, I know that you can ABSOLUTELY feel the difference of two ounces. I used a 30 oz. bat for the past 10 years or so playing "A" level (ASA league) ball, and this past year switched to a 28 oz. and it has required a big adjustment on my part--frustrating at times. At the major league level, I can guarantee that these guys feel a lot more difference than I do. Also, where the weight is removed makes a huge difference. Weight removed from the end of the bat has a larger effect than weight removed from the handle end. Additionally, I believe that there is a maximum amount of drop (length of bat to weight ratio) that is allowed. Example: for a -3 oz. drop, a 28 oz. bat can weigh no less than 25 oz. (I'm not sure what the max drop is for MLB). This way you can have a bat that is labelled as being legal, yet is under the minimum weight. Less weight=more bat speed.
gear02
06-04-2003, 01:50 PM
I've been listening to ESPN radio and they've had a bunch of people say that corking a bat does not do anything for you physically, but pyschologically. Baseball is a mental game and if he thinks that the bat is juiced, then he'll probably think he hit it better.
xsiled2
06-04-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by gear02
I've been listening to ESPN radio and they've had a bunch of people say that corking a bat does not do anything for you physically, but pyschologically. Baseball is a mental game and if he thinks that the bat is juiced, then he'll probably think he hit it better.
the dr. from yale said pretty much the same thing but when they asked him other questions he just repeated himself... so i find it hard to believe, ill just continue to think that it helps and all the physics should stay away from baseball.
Cubsfan
06-04-2003, 03:09 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0604/1563115.html
CHICAGO -- Seventy-seven bats seized from Sammy Sosa have been found not to contain cork.
Columnist George Will told ESPN on Wednesday that Major League Baseball will announce before tonight's Cubs-Devil Rays game that those 77 bats were found to be clean.
So, 1 in 78 bats was corked. I think that I tend to believe Sammy a little more now.
nickel
06-04-2003, 03:44 PM
eh, i don't have time to read this whole thread, but i gotta say he looks a bit guilty on this one.
he said he used that bat in practice to give the fans something to see, aka him hitting homeruns with the ease of a lighter bat.
i can't help but wonder how long he has used this type of bat during actual games. and i also can't help but lose some respect for him and discount him being a true home run hero.
gear02
06-04-2003, 04:50 PM
First, I have to think that a baseball player, one who holds a bat in his hands millions of times, can tell when the bat weighs less, or whether it's improperly made. So I can't believe his story about the bat
Second, I think this was the act of a desperate man. He came off the DL, and struck out a lot, 5 times against the astros (go astros!). The story goes that in that game he k'd 5 times with a white bat, and then switched to a black one and hit a game winning single (http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick04.html). It is possible that he just tried it this time and got caught.
Third, no matter what the conclusion to this story is, he'll be tainted with this for the REST OF HISTORY. There will be countless jokes about corks, it will be brought up when he comes up for election. Everytime Sosa's name will be mentioned in history, they'll bring this up. George Brett is known for the pine tar game, and this is no different. From now on, whenever he hits a homerun, he has to break his bat and show everyone its contents.
and finally, I bet you that he's not the only one...it's too bad he had to be the one pinned to this.
Cubsfan
06-04-2003, 04:58 PM
So I say a columnist bring this up, and it makes sense to me. Why is it that if Sammy cheats and uses a corked bat, he's a horrible person? On the other hand, everyone looks at Gaylord Perry, who threw more illegal pitches than anyone, as a lovable guy who bent the rules? Why the different standards?
IrishSS
06-04-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Cubsfan
So I say a columnist bring this up, and it makes sense to me. Why is it that if Sammy cheats and uses a corked bat, he's a horrible person? On the other hand, everyone looks at Gaylord Perry, who threw more illegal pitches than anyone, as a lovable guy who bent the rules? Why the different standards?
Nah, I dont think of him as a horrible person. He's actually a really good human being. Just takes some luster of his accomplishments, which to be frank, weren't all that high in my book anyways because of the whole steriod issue.
gear02
06-04-2003, 06:58 PM
I also don't think he's a horrible guy. I just think that he did it on purpose and he knew he was doing it. But I think it was out of desperation and a one-time thing, though it puts doubt on everything he's done. But he's a nice, outgoing guy. It's really too bad.
Perry played in a different era, when things like this aren't scrutinized to this extent. If he did this at this time, he would be crucified. I don't think much of him at all, but then again I don't know him.
cheapie
06-04-2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by coleslaw
That may be true if you were trying to maximize distance while bunting (i.e. keeping the bat stationary in relation to a moving ball), but when you consider a baseball bat, both objects are moving towards each other before impact. Given this scenario, which would you rather hit a ball with? A very tightly drawn trampoline, or one that has a little "give" to it?
The key factors in determining the distance of a projectile launched from a collision are the speeds of those objects before the collision and the time of impact. A shorter impact time will result in a greater amount of power transferred from the more massive object to the lesser one. Of course the elasticity of the objects figures into these equations as well, but having a more "elastic" surface would only result in a longer impact time. ;)
df is correct. the rebound effect is what they are after, as well as reduced weight. that's why golf club makers try to make the face of their clubs as springy as possible. there are regulations limiting the "rebound" effect on golf clubs, and you can't use cork in bats for this reason also.
speedracer120
06-05-2003, 01:15 AM
I say screw the limitations on equipment. And even the field by letting the pitchers spit on the ball or juice it or whatever. It's better than losing the "integrity" of the game by letting them do whatever they want to. Give them the freedom to do whatever to their equipment as long as it's no secret. Heck, the college teams use aluminum bats and they still don't score like crazy. Eh, like a thread from a few days ago, baseball is losing its draw and controversies like this and the whole performance enhancing drugs fiasco don't help anyone or their agenda.
Merlin
06-05-2003, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by DarkFury
I also thought that since cork is pourous... it also provides some kind of "trampoline effect" which also generates more power being reflected into the hit of the ball... :D
Basically, it gives the bat "More BOUNCE to the OUNCE"! :D (now I'm gonna have that song runnin' through my head now. :cool: )
With all due respect to you and cheapbast@rd there is no change the the rebound of the bat. It is simply the issue of batspeed.
And this does indeed have a real effect. There undoubtedly are mental effects to using a doctored bat, nevertheless, there are also very real benefits as well.
Looking at the whole situation and negative x-rays, I tend to fall in line with gear02. Sammy has been off his game pretty bad. Just getting back from an injury and such has killed his timing. I think he wanted to use it as a way to "jump start" his game. You know, just use to get through the tough times, like a student, speed, and finals. :hihi:
gear02
06-05-2003, 06:22 AM
Btw 3 more Ks for Sammy yesterday.
cheapie
06-05-2003, 07:26 AM
hmmmm..... (http://www.bostonbaseball.com/whitesox/baseball_extras/physics.html)
Ever thought about corking your bat?
Batters swinging at baseballs have to swing the big ol' bat fast, if they want good things to happen. Heavy bats make for hard work. For the last 100 years, players have tried to quicken their bats by breaking the rules. It's tricky, and it doesn't work very well. And as if I've got to tell you, it's science.
For years, perhaps as long as the game's been played, players have tried to add a little more spring to their swing by filling their bats with springy cork, and sealing them up cleanly in hopes that no one would notice.
Why cork? If you've ever fingered a flat-headed thumb tack, or muscled a handle-headed push pin into a cork bulletin board, you've probably noticed that the material, cork, is soft and spongy. Similarly, if you've ever knocked your knees with an ash wood baseball bat, you've undoubtedly noticed that it's not especially soft. It's bruisingly hard, very hard. So, it might stand to reason that a hard bat isn't as resilient as a rod of cork. A ball bouncing on cork might rebound more robustly than one knocking on wood.
A cork-lined bat might also be a lighter weight, which would make its swing speed a lot faster than that of a heavy, old, wooden shaft. It's easy to think that together, the happy springiness and the gossamer lightness, might help a batter drive the ball through the box and beyond. After all, cork is typically around four times springier than hard wood. But that's not always what you're swinging for. There are some, uh ... other factors.
First of all, modifying the bat by drilling a hole and replacing the wood with another substance is illegal. Secondly, the cork hurts you. It would take a little speed and distance off your hit. Why? Well, the springiness of the cork cannot store energy from the pitch, because it takes too much time. A ball smooches a bat for about millisecond, a thousandth of a second. That's all the time you get to direct a hit. Hmmm.
Think of it this way: Say you tore an old mattress open and extracted a single bed spring. Then you stapled this spring to your desk, or better yet, someone else's desk. When you drop a baseball onto the spring, it compresses and springs back. If you do it from the right height, it'll start oscillating. It will go up and down at what's called it's "natural frequency." Notice that it takes time for the ball to compress the spring and for the spring to lift the ball. It takes time to store energy in the spring. The most efficient speed that any energy stored in the smooshed spring can be returned to the ball is around the spring & ball combo's natural frequency.
Now, try dropping the ball on something stiffer, say your head. It won't oscillate, but it will hurt -- just ask Jose Canseco. Instead, the ball will thud and roll away. The natural frequency of your head, your skull-brain assembly, is much higher than the spring. Your head is stiff like wood -- like a wooden bat.
The natural frequency of wooden bats is around 250 cycles per second, or 250 Hertz. Because the ball leaves the bat so soon (a millisecond), the energy transfer to the ball is not too efficient. If the bat has been hollowed and corked, it's no longer as stiff, and it will get an even lower natural frequency and an even less efficient transfer of energy to the bat. The baseball bounces off the bat, faster than the cork can store the energy that could be put back in the ball. The cork might deaden the sound of a hollowed out bat, but it doesn't propel the ball. It can't. So, balls hit with corked bats don't go as far.
Now, there is another factor, to be sure. A lighter bat is easier to swing, especially a bat that's been lightened on the business end. But as we like to say in physics class, "it turns out that" one could get the very same very bearable lightness of bat by choking up about 1 inch (2.5 centimeters). Or, if you want to get tricky, just shave 0.1 inches off (3 box tops wrapped on the bat's worth) the diameter of a regular bat. This loss of diameter may be a problem for those who want to get out by hitting pop-ups. For the rest of us, it's the way to go, especially when it's time to sign your major-league bat maker's contract.
But, if you worried that choking up will hurt your chances on those outside pitches, there's still no need to cheat. It is also perfectly legal to lighten one's bat by hollowing out the end of a wooden bat. I'm sure you've seen the bats used by sluggers such as Jay Buhner. The end of the bat looks like it's been cut through with an ice cream scoop. I recently visited the Louisville Slugger Bat Museum and saw many, many such hollow-ended bats. Most hollowings have a much bigger effect than corking because the manufacturer has removed way more material than is removed during the corking process.
The feel of a bat is a strange and wonderful thing. Ripping it's heart out and stuffing it with dried bark is almost, uh ... unnatural. It won't push the ball out to the fence. It's a natural frequency transfer of energy phenomenon. It's science.
nickel
06-06-2003, 09:23 AM
*JUST IN*
Sosa is suspended for 8 games for using the corked bat
xsiled2
06-06-2003, 09:29 AM
i dont think they will bench him for the yankees series, it means to much of the cubs :kaching: :kaching: love em or hate em the yankees fill up ball parks, granted the cubs fill their own place up well enough but every inter-league game a team has against the yanks is packed.
Cubsfan
06-06-2003, 09:35 AM
They are appealing. Most likely they'll drop the appeal on Monday.
First that boneheaded Jose Canseco made the charge of racial bias. http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0604/1563420.html
Oh yeah if a light-skinned future hall of famer had been caught with cork in his bat nothing would have been made of this. Everyone recall the uproar over Mark McGwire using that supplement? Who of his peers continued to be admired by people?
Then Pedro Martinez bent over and let loose with bs of his own.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/134930182_albeat07.html
Of course he was whining about old stuff too. :rolleyes:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0606/1564134.html
Hey Pedro, if you are so unhappy give back all that big money racist light colored folks are paying to see you play.
http://www.lemonizer.com/uploads/pedromartinez.jpg
"I'm a jacka$$!"
nickel
06-08-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by sbp
First that boneheaded Jose Canseco made the charge of racial bias. http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0604/1563420.html
Oh yeah if a light-skinned future hall of famer had been caught with cork in his bat nothing would have been made of this. Everyone recall the uproar over Mark McGwire using that supplement? Who of his peers continued to be admired by people?
Then Pedro Martinez bent over and let loose with bs of his own.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/134930182_albeat07.html
Of course he was whining about old stuff too. :rolleyes:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0606/1564134.html
Hey Pedro, if you are so unhappy give back all that big money racist light colored folks are paying to see you play.
http://www.lemonizer.com/uploads/pedromartinez.jpg
"I'm a jacka$$!"
damn, i wish i wouldn't have read this. this kind of trash talk so pisses me off! some people feel the need to always jump on the "racial bias" bandwagon when there is NO RACIAL BIAS AT ALL. they just like to piss and moan. :mad:
gear02
06-08-2003, 05:10 PM
It's jose canseco. He knows jack sh*t. He's under house arrest and I have no clue why people keep asking him questions. That's like asking Tyson how to do Calculus.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.12 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.