thoughts about the SuperMarket Strike [Archive] - HP Deals, Computer Coupons And Bargains

sizemic1

10-12-2003, 02:24 PM

I worked in the grocery biz for 12 years. (Albertsons and Vons).
Been through 3 contract negotiations..and from what the information i've been able to gather, the offer made by the supermarkets really is a crap.

Here's what they're striking over.
Company Proposal (http://www.ufcw1167.org/x_negotiations_upd/10903proposals.htm)

Some things minor..others major.

I'm not really a diehard union flag waving supporter, but i do support the workers and won't shop at any of the unionized chains while they're striking.

What I find amusing is for the past 15 years EVERY time there's a contract to be negotiated, these major chains claim that WalMart and Costco type stores are killing them. You would think all the grocery stores would be bankrupt by now.

anyway...buy all of your groceries at 7-11 :D

By the way, Albertsons and Stater Bros are crap companies to work for. Just in case you were considering getting a job with them :)

InfiniteNothing

10-12-2003, 02:51 PM

So I went to an albertsons and changed my mind. It looks like its the big corporations stickin it to the little guy. I think that corporate greed has gone too far. It sounds like there is big time collusions between the few supermarket chains that hold the oligopoly and that's just messed up. I think the Union workers should milk this for all they can. Ralphs, Albertsons, and Ralphs can raise their prices. Hopefully people will get the picture that the prices are too high and shop elsewhere thus forcing the companies to give themselves a pay cut to win back customers.

TofuNinja

10-12-2003, 05:40 PM

I won't cross picket lines either. THese people work hard and even though I think they need to pay a little for there health care and stuff, that should be gradual, not all at once what the big three want to stick to these workers is robbery. 99 Range and Jons for me.

VNMZ

10-12-2003, 07:24 PM

I have been working as a bagger boy for 3 years now. I got like a $.50 raise. Just a while longer, almost done with a BS. The big coorporations are really milking whatever the workers got. I have been hearing about the Walmart argument here in Seattle. Sadly, there's only 1 Walmart here. BTW, I work at QFC, it's not what it's used to be. It was a good place to work and shop, but it's just a generic Safeway, Albertson now.

Markel

10-12-2003, 08:24 PM

Not as bad as the waste hauler strike that was around here. They didn't pick up our garbage for two weeks. Stinkin' onions, I mean, unions! :angry:

InfiniteNothing

10-12-2003, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by Markel
Not as bad as the waste hauler strike that was around here. They didn't pick up our garbage for two weeks. Stinkin' onions, I mean, unions! :angry:

The garbage company couldn't hire scabs?

brainsmile

10-12-2003, 10:44 PM

I buy most of my stuff at costco anyways

zenbooty

10-13-2003, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by InfiniteNothing

The garbage company couldn't hire scabs? Not if they don't want to end up wearing cement shoes and going for a swim.

TofuNinja

10-13-2003, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by InfiniteNothing

The garbage company couldn't hire scabs?

No scabs, the managers went around and picked up the trash. I lived in HB at the time and at the apartments I lived in one of the garbage areas was outside my dining room window... yuck.

I don't hate all Unions, just some :) This one and the Teachers Union I support.

Jihforce

10-13-2003, 10:27 AM

As much as it sucks for them, I would like to know who has the type of benefits they are currently getting. Because I'm starting to noticed a trend where other large corporations are doing the same thing.

molecularfire

10-13-2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by InfiniteNothing

I agree, any way this goes it's not going to be cheap for the customers. I tend to be a little republican (read: cold hearted) about this but pensions and health care are all great but that means I have to pay more for my gallon of milk and pound of ham. If they don't like their jobs they can always walk away. Otherwise just set a little money aside for a heathcare plan and retirement.
:stupid: If the situations were reversed, I doubt that they would care much about me.

cheapie

10-13-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by TofuNinja

No scabs, the managers went around and picked up the trash. I lived in HB at the time and at the apartments I lived in one of the garbage areas was outside my dining room window... yuck.

I don't hate all Unions, just some :) This one and the Teachers Union I support.

i'm not necessarily non-union either. however, the teachers union is on the very top of the most useless and counter-productive unions in existence. they are the reason i didn't go into teaching and went into business instead.

http://www.lemonizer.com/upload/uploadsOct/proposal.jpg

if you look at this list, most of them aren't all that terrible. the 2nd, 4th, and 5th ones would all benefit the consumer.

sizemic1

10-13-2003, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by cheapbast@rd

*snip*

http://www.lemonizer.com/upload/uploadsOct/proposal.jpg

if you look at this list, most of them aren't all that terrible. the 2nd, 4th, and 5th ones would all benefit the consumer.

I think you need to look further down that list, I think the pension hits are probably the most significant. I honestly don't think that reducing the grocery company's labor cost, medical or pension liabilities would really help the consumer. As it stands now, all stores (union and nonunion) are pretty competitively priced. I think that a lot of extra money paid out by unionized stores is made up by the price breaks given to them by manufactures for volume purchases. These companies would rather please their shareholders (read profits) than cut consumers a break. I would interested to see what the price difference is on a 100 items between Albertsons union and nonunion stores. I'm betting it's negligible. I suppose a cheap labor and poor benefits case could be made for Walmart and their successes, but honestly, who does their grocery shopping at Walmart? I think i'd rather pay 10% more than deal with Walmart and it's minions. Not to put down Walmart employees..I just REALLY hate all of the Walmart, Kmart and Targetesque type stores. blah blah.. I'll get off my soapbox now...

TofuNinja

10-13-2003, 01:53 PM

Wow two strikes in So Cal, this and the Blue Flu in LA

DaFunkyUnit

10-13-2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by TofuNinja
Wow two strikes in So Cal, this and the Blue Flu in LA

eh? what's the other strike? and what's the Blue Flu? Last I recall, the Dodgers didnt make it to the post season...

TofuNinja

10-13-2003, 04:04 PM

The LA County Sheriffs are calling in sick, this in turn closes down the courthouses and what not. It is a form of striking

Make ti three strikes, the MTA mechanics in LA are going to strike tonight at 12:01am

ufcrusher

10-13-2003, 04:13 PM

I find this strike to be ridiculous.

I went to go to the supermarket last night (9pm) and it was closed when its supposed to be opened until midnight. The picketing people had actually come up and posted signs on the propety which would amount to trespassing and possible criminal actions by the management. So we drive to another store, its open, and as we are walking in we are told " We arent on strike, the store locked us out" When I am walking out someone said, "Thank you for shopping here, hopefully I will be able to ring you out next time" I couldnt tell if the person was just being nice or being obnoxious for us crossing the line to buy groceries.

According to all the reports the reason for the strike in SD is that the reason the markets are giving (Walmart superstores) coming in and thus requiring competitive rates to them is untrue since there are no Walmart superstores. I guess the person who gave that quote doesnt watch the news or read the papers.

If someone would please explain to this idealistic but misguided strikers that plans to come into an area is tatamount to being in the area, especially when permits have been sought and land purchased for the stores. Plus a national or statewide chain is not going to make a special concession for just one area that is not currently involved....they have to deal with the reality of the rest of the world.

Airencracken

10-13-2003, 08:53 PM

More power to the strikers. Big corps always stick it to their employees. As a teamster I know what it's like to have a union behind you to protect you and I know that I wouldn't be at my job without a union. I would just have no protection from bull.

Blitz

10-13-2003, 08:58 PM

As being a youngin myself, I work at a local Ralphs, (store 745, newport beach) so that I can purchase new equipment for myself and my band.

Now that being said, some of the points that are being said are true and not true that are posted on this board. I will try to clear things up, and give you the strikers view (i am one)...note: I probly wont be able to post replies as I will be striking or catching up on school work at nite.

We are fighting to keep our basic but important programs such as Health Care and Retirement benefits. That is one main point that should be made! Another is, we are NOT asking for a raise, nor more benefits, but that they remain the SAME as they do NOW!

This is what they want to take out:
Health Care Issues:
1.Employer proposes to eliminate maintanace of benefits
2.Elimination of benefits such as dental, vision, well baby care and preventive office visits
3.Elimination of prescription drug benefit
4.Employee would be responsible for 50% of the TOTAL hospital bill
5.Chemotherapy Treatments to be capped, leaving employees with thousasnds of dollars in unpaid treatments
6.Significant increased in office visit co-payment, and a cap on office visits resulting in 100% payment by the employee
7.Significant reduction in benefits for both existing and new retirees

Retirement Issues:
1.Drasticly reduced pension accruals
2.Employers proposal will not provide enough money to pay the benefits already earned, even though the law protects them.
3.No future benefits earned-benefits stop with the effect of the new contract
4.No pension for future courtesy clerk

Other Issues:
1.Employers propose to close all union benefit offices
2.No wage increase untill october 3, 2005, even as cost of living continues to increase
3.Significantly DECREASE wages and Benefits for New Hires, creating a reson for the employer to get RID of CURRENT Employees and replace with new hires.

Basiclly, they ARE competing with wallmart! Yes, they may not have super markets now, BUT they are a trillion dollar company now, thus they ARE expanding their bigger locations into "super stores", and plan on creating new/improving on other locations.

To sum it all up, screw the old workers, cut benefits and wages and pension, create a two tier wage system (new hires get less, and will NEVER reach what we are getting paid now), really making the old workers quit so they can get new hires to pay less....While the companies profits are 91% higher than four years ago, they have to cut away from the people who helped them get there!

THIS IS WHY WE STRIKE! This is why we stand together! This is why you should support your local stores and NOT shop at Albertsons/vons/ralphs, as WE effect all other unions related! Deliveries, etc., etc., If we cant make a stand now, when all other contracts are going to be negotiated in the future for other unions, they will have a 99.9% chance to fail, and fall under the propsed circumstances that are being offered now, or it may even be worse!

Support the Strike!

My local area has two ralphs right next to each other, about a block away....both make a million! A MILLION even after counting the cost of the stock, for less than a week! Two stores = 2 mill for 1 week...add it up. Walmart Underpays their employees, and our employers want to follow in their footsteps, help stop it! The more of the support we get from the public, the faster the strike will be over!

...and if your in south cali, feb we might gig, so keep your eyes open for Emblazed!

InfiniteNothing

10-13-2003, 09:40 PM

You go Blitz. I'm about to go over and protest with you guys. Though don't boo the scabs. If you were unemployed and they were on strike, you wouldn't care about them either.

Nija

10-13-2003, 09:41 PM

i wonder if they are still doing the delivery thing.. Then I could support the Strike by not crossing the pick-it line.. but then I could have food in my house too....

InfiniteNothing

10-13-2003, 09:48 PM

You COULD go to another store. But I don't think anyone could blame you if it would be highly troublesome.

Nija

10-13-2003, 10:09 PM

So who is it on strike? Vons(my beloved Pavilions :bawl: ), Albertsons and Ralphs right?

Hrmm.. I think the only grocery store that ISN'T one of those close by is a Food For Less... and well.. I suck at baggin my own shizzle

onalamwar

10-13-2003, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by ufcrusher
I find this strike to be ridiculous.
So we drive to another store, its open, and as we are walking in we are told " We arent on strike, the store locked us out" When I am walking out someone said, "Thank you for shopping here, hopefully I will be able to ring you out next time" I couldnt tell if the person was just being nice or being obnoxious for us crossing the line to buy groceries.

That sucks that the benefits are decreasing for these workers. But I read somewhere (I believe it was the OC Register on Sunday) that the striker's currently pay NOTHING for health care right now. If this is true, then I don't feel as bad for them since almost everyone else has to have these things deducted from their paychecks every month.

So far it seems the strike is having it's effect. After walking into a store on Sunday to get some things, the way the strikers were harassing the customers really sucked. I'm avoiding going to my favorite (primarily because of convenience) stores moreso because I don't want to be harassed and less so because I sympathize with the strikers. But whatever the reason, the strike is having it's intended effect..the supermarkets are VERY empty..

Hell, I don't want Ralphs, Vons, and Albertson to disappear because I don't want to be forced to shop at Walmart, etc. I'm not a believe in unions because right now I'm suffering because of them.

awaiting the flames.. ;)

RoniMan

10-14-2003, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Blitz
This is why you should support your local stores and NOT shop at Albertsons/vons/ralphs, as WE effect all other unions related! Deliveries, etc., etc.,

99 ranch baby!

Ladogaboy

10-14-2003, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by Nija
Hrmm.. I think the only grocery store that ISN'T one of those close by is a Food For Less... and well.. I suck at baggin my own shizzle

BTW, Food4Less and Ralphs are owned by the same company.

ufcrusher

10-14-2003, 01:14 AM

Here is part of an article that I found during a quick Google search which basically outlays in more objective terms the reason for the strike.

*snip*
The companies want the workers to take on a larger share of the cost for health benefits, citing a sluggish economy, rising health care costs and increased competition from nonunion rivals such as Wal-Mart Stores Inc.

The proposal does not call for wage reductions and asks employees to pay $5 a week for individual health care coverage and $10 to $15 a week for an entire family, Vons president Tom Keller said.

Grocery clerks work a minimum of 24 hours a week, with 70 percent working part-time. They earn, on average, about $15 an hour, union officials said. The union wants the companies to maintain health care plans and provide raises of 50 cents an hour the first year and 45 cents an hour the following two years.

*snip*
Link: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2003/10/12/state2052EDT0078.DTL

Now I did just cut out the part that said what both sides were arguing over and I intentionally tried to leave in both sides from this article. Most others that I came across didnt cite anything concrete as to the reasons for the strike.

While this does not really clear up what the previous health care agreements were nor what most people have, it does add some light to the situation.

cheapchinese

10-14-2003, 03:00 AM

Hong Kong Super Market~~~

Pinkgirl36

10-14-2003, 06:43 AM

I am going to try not to cross the picket lines at my local ralphs - why because I go in there quite often and over the almost 2 years I've lived down here I see the same people and talk to them and stuff like that and I see them outside now and I know that they would recgonize me and I would just feel bad.
Luckly their is a Trader Joes like 2 blocks from my house!

Jihforce

10-14-2003, 09:57 AM

Costco for me. I went to Vons on Saturday night, surprisingly enough, no one was striking outside.
Nothing against those who are striking, but my health coverage is much worst than yours (i pay about 10 bucks a month for my own coverage and it would cost me $190 to cover my wife) and I don't get a pension. I still can't understand what the fuss is about. I do think they should get a raise tho. But I do not think there's need for a strike in order to get those things.

Cantacuzene

10-14-2003, 12:17 PM

I've heard the "well cutting costs will help the consumer" a few times here. Never in the entire history of corporate America has a big business passed along the savings to its cutomers. Its a huge lie that businesses use to make the middle class people not care when someone else loses their job. There is a reason the United States is less socialistic than Europe or Canada and its because the average person here believes lies like that. Just like, "overseas workers lower costs for American consumers" which is a total lie. They lower costs for the business which pockets the profits, the consumer sees no change in price. Does anyone think IBM is going to lower the prices of its laptops now that they have moved thousands of jobs overseas? Or are they simply going to pocket the profits?

These workers should strike, they are being marginalized and abused. Its a shame more people don't strike when in similar predicaments.

cheapie

10-14-2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
I've heard the "well cutting costs will help the consumer" a few times here. Never in the entire history of corporate America has a big business passed along the savings to its cutomers. Its a huge lie that businesses use to make the middle class people not care when someone else loses their job. There is a reason the United States is less socialistic than Europe or Canada and its because the average person here believes lies like that. Just like, "overseas workers lower costs for American consumers" which is a total lie. They lower costs for the business which pockets the profits, the consumer sees no change in price. Does anyone think IBM is going to lower the prices of its laptops now that they have moved thousands of jobs overseas? Or are they simply going to pocket the profits?

These workers should strike, they are being marginalized and abused. Its a shame more people don't strike when in similar predicaments.

i pretty much agree with a lot of what you said. i would note a couple of items though.

first, wal-mart is pretty much a crap place to work. few if any bennies, etc. however, the consumer has definately felt the impact. i agree that if companies lower costs, they rarely lower prices. however, they usually are able to maintain them at current levels. we americans pay relatively little for things we take for granted like gas, food, postage, etc. some of this is because of painful cost-cutting measures such as this.

second, when you say that the companies will reap the benefits of these lower costs because of larger profits, and the consumer will see nothing, we need to keep in mind that a large amount of americans own these companies. it's not all rich people that see the rewards. many "normal" people own mutual funds and will benefit from things like this.

third, i feel for these people. i prob. would not cross the picket line. it's prob. the best job they can get and it's not right that the employers aren't willing to maintain a decent wage and benefit level. my own company has several initiatives to source as much manufacturing offshore and the managers are graded on how well they do in that area. it pisses me off that they are rewarded for putting american workers out of business. one reason i feel for these workers is that i just got my new benefits package for next year and it pretty much sucks. they keep taking stuff away and we're just sitting here saying, "thank you mr. corporation for being nice and giving me something." eff that. i work hard for it and i'm not being given anything. unless my pay goes up enough to offset the increased prices, you're screwing me out of money.

Blitz

10-14-2003, 09:11 PM

You know what really offends me, as being asian (half chinese and half japanese)....

I had a man come up to me and say "you are all stupid,(points at me) you stupid *****!"

I know that my grandfather talks about being called "jap" as he was put in the camps in the US durring WW2...but this has gone to far! People using racism when it doesnt relate AT ALL with the matter at hand. And don't get me started on the "patriotic" american's that come through cursing at us, saying we want more money, more benefits.... They didnt even read what we are saying in the letters, WE DONT WANT A RAISE! We want everything to stay the same, and cursing at us isn't going to help!

I know my store that I work at trys to keep everything at a profsional lev el, and not intrude on others beliefs. I speak most of the time when people ask why we strike, as I have the most patience than my co-workers, and I show them the facts, show them our beliefs, and let the shopper decide. We dont yell and scream like some of the extremeists we have next to us ;) although we do feel like it! We try to act calm, and with people calling us sob's, it isn't helping....

Support the strike, and if you dont, dont cross the line of common courtesy and use foul language!

Thx for reading this if you do :p

Airencracken

10-15-2003, 09:22 AM

What a jerk. I'm glad to be supporting the strike as a teamster. Most of the strikers are genuinely glad for your support, but if you don't don't be a D***weed. That really is offensive.

watanad

10-15-2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by onalamwar

So far it seems the strike is having it's effect. After walking into a store on Sunday to get some things, the way the strikers were harassing the customers really sucked. I'm avoiding going to my favorite (primarily because of convenience) stores moreso because I don't want to be harassed and less so because I sympathize with the strikers. But whatever the reason, the strike is having it's intended effect..the supermarkets are VERY empty..
That really sucks that customers are being harassed. I should be able to shop where I choose. If I don't support your cause or methods, it doesn't mean I should be harassed.

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm a believer in the market determining where wages and benefits will end up. If you don't like the way you are being compensated or treated at work, you should be free to work somewhere else. If your employer can't replace you because his compensation package sucks, his business will suffer. So either he fixes his wages/benefits and hires qualified people, or deals with the decreased business (and possibly failure of the business).

I'm all for workers exercising their rights to not work (and not to get paid), but if customers and scabs are being harassed, it becomes less about what the employment market will bear, and more about intimidation. Shouldn't the employer have the option giving it a go with non-union labor?

zenbooty

10-15-2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by watanad
That really sucks that customers are being harassed. I should be able to shop where I choose. If I don't support your cause or methods, it doesn't mean I should be harassed.

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm a believer in the market determining where wages and benefits will end up. If you don't like the way you are being compensated or treated at work, you should be free to work somewhere else. If your employer can't replace you because his compensation package sucks, his business will suffer. So either he fixes his wages/benefits and hires qualified people, or deals with the decreased business (and possibly failure of the business).

I'm all for workers exercising their rights to not work (and not to get paid), but if customers and scabs are being harassed, it becomes less about what the employment market will bear, and more about intimidation. Shouldn't the employer have the option giving it a go with non-union labor? This is the real world. When you're talking about people's livelihoods, idealisitic theoretical market principles are going to be thrown out the window. Its in the striker's interest to not have people cross the picket lines. They don't much care about capitalist market theory when they're trying to take care of themselves and their families.

Cantacuzene

10-15-2003, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by zenbooty
This is the real world. When you're talking about people's livelihoods, idealisitic theoretical market principles are going to be thrown out the window. Its in the striker's interest to not have people cross the picket lines. They don't much care about capitalist market theory when they're trying to take care of themselves and their families.

Here here. One of the reasons why there are not worker revolts and middle and working class overthrows of the government is because of safeguards like social security, unemployment, pensions and other benefits. If the free market economists got their way all of that would be gone and the rich would get fantastically richer. But then the mass of alienated people would eventually revolt.

You have to throw the dog a bone sometimes to keep him from biting you. Giving supermarket workers their pensions makes the system run that much smoother and does its part to prevent the 'workers of the world' from uniting.

watanad

10-15-2003, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by zenbooty
This is the real world. When you're talking about people's livelihoods, idealisitic theoretical market principles are going to be thrown out the window. Its in the striker's interest to not have people cross the picket lines. They don't much care about capitalist market theory when they're trying to take care of themselves and their families. Fair enough. Like I said, my view point is probably naive, and maybe it's just the cry of the non-unionized worker. We just had some sessions at work about next year's health care benefits, and prices are going up, with deductibles increasing. It sucks, but it's still cheaper than getting my own insurance (or not having insurance and getting hit by a car or something).

Blitz

10-15-2003, 08:16 PM

Some people are being harassed when its not needed, I understand that, and I am sorry...I really am!

But if you stand next to me, come on down I will let you, and see what I have to put up with, being yelled at, spit at, shown the finger, cursed, it puts a toll on you. I asked some of my co-workers, what will they do if this lasts a month? They said they would have to find another job, theres just no way they can survive off of strike pay (5 an hour) to support their families. And I know why some people do get harassed....you can only taunt us so much, to the point where we won't care as much as the person who just cursed at us does. Don't expect us to show you respect, and say, have a nice day sir, when I got the reply today, "f*ck you, f*ck the union..I can't have a f*cking good day with you here!" (Owns 25 stores, and knows more than the media and the union about the strike, so he says). NOTE: sorry for the lang, but its a quote I get often

I know this is not a good exscuse, as I try to act properly, and keep everything mild...and I always open up by saying, "Sir, would you like to read why we are going on strike, and what we are fighting to KEEP?" And of course the response is F off, as most of the shoppers are corperate workers....

My point in all this rambling is YES! You are totally right, we should not be harrasing customers as it will hurt, and not benefit their beliefs...BUT, we can only take so much of this taunting game to the point of madness. You might see me and my co-workers on the news if we take this everyday for a month, if it lasts this long....

Sorry for the harassment,
Blitz

cheapie

10-15-2003, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Cantacuzene

Here here. One of the reasons why there are not worker revolts and middle and working class overthrows of the government is because of safeguards like social security, unemployment, pensions and other benefits. If the free market economists got their way all of that would be gone and the rich would get fantastically richer. But then the mass of alienated people would eventually revolt.

You have to throw the dog a bone sometimes to keep him from biting you. Giving supermarket workers their pensions makes the system run that much smoother and does its part to prevent the 'workers of the world' from uniting.

there is no perfect economic model. you have to pick some middle ground. one that rewards inventiveness, efficiency, and risk-taking but at the same time contains safeguards to protect the workers from being taken advantage of. will we ever find a perfect solution? prob. not in my lifetime.

Ladogaboy

10-16-2003, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by cheapie

there is no perfect economic model.

There is, but almost no one could stomach it. That, and our society wouldn't function as it does today.

TofuNinja

10-16-2003, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by RoniMan

99 ranch baby!

Booyeah!!! and Jons :)

bachviet

10-16-2003, 07:11 AM

There are plenty of Vietnamese supermarkets here in OC so I haven't stepped in any Vons, Albertsons, or Ralphs yet.

cheapie

10-16-2003, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Ladogaboy

There is, but almost no one could stomach it. That, and our society wouldn't function as it does today.

that's exactly my point. the reason no perfect economic model exists is that they often fail to factor in the reality of the population it encompasses.

Ladogaboy

10-16-2003, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by cheapie

that's exactly my point. the reason no perfect economic model exists is that they often fail to factor in the reality of the population it encompasses.

Heh, well I'd prefer it my way! :D

Kevster

10-16-2003, 02:55 PM

I used to work for Lucky's when I was in college to help pay the bills when the construction industry was in a big decline (night clerk's helper then night clerk). Lucky's is now Albertson's as of a few years ago.

I haven't crossed the picket lines and never will. I have made clear to Mrs. Kevster that we will not cross the picket lines and that we will go to Costco/Trader Joes/Rite Aid to get our shopping done until this is over and the supermarket chains have given in and dropped this bull****.

These are the people I see every time I go buy a groceries at my local Vons, Ralphs and Albertsons. I have come to know these people and I refuse to support the entities that are trying to shaft them. I've worked union and non-union and I honestly prefer working union. I'm an engineer now so that point is almost moot (I know some engineers for Mattel that are IBEW though).

DaFunkyUnit

10-16-2003, 03:31 PM

So let me get this straight:

Before, full-time workers got health care and pension benefits, right? But now, the companies want the workers to pay a fee for the benefits? If thats the case, then I have no idea what the fuss is about, since many other workers in other lines of work pay a fee for their health care. Overall, the cost of health care has gone up, so its inevitable that someone is gonna have to pitch over the extra cash.

btw, how much do grocery ppl make, anyways?

cheapie

10-17-2003, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by DaFunkyUnit
So let me get this straight:

Before, full-time workers got health care and pension benefits, right? But now, the companies want the workers to pay a fee for the benefits? If thats the case, then I have no idea what the fuss is about, since many other workers in other lines of work pay a fee for their health care. Overall, the cost of health care has gone up, so its inevitable that someone is gonna have to pitch over the extra cash.

btw, how much do grocery ppl make, anyways?

there are two issues here and i'm going through them as we speak at my job.

first, yes, most people do pay for their health benefits.

second, their health benefits are part of their compensation package. i.e. they work x hours for pay plus benefits. therefore, if the company reduces benefits without increasing the pay or reducing the work, the workers are getting shorted.

should people pay more for benefits? dunno. all i know is that as employees, we are getting less and less. you can never go back. employers will never increase bennies or wage rates. there is an increasing downward pressure.

Jihforce

10-18-2003, 12:56 AM

http://negotiations.safeway.com/vons/offers_of_settlement.asp

Interesting. Don't think they are cutting their health care exactly, just making them pay 5 bucks a week and 15 bucks a week for family members.

kimchicowboy

10-18-2003, 09:30 AM

i'm not sure if it was mentioned, but the union involved is telling customers to shop at stores that are unionized. that would not mean trader joe's at least. so would you, whoever shops at trader joe's and is supporting the strike, be inherently against the whole idea of unionized labor if you did shop at TJ's? or you just might not have known that either.

i'd hate to have to shop at a wal-mart cuz it's so dang far.

Blitz

10-18-2003, 01:40 PM

Interesting. Don't think they are cutting their health care exactly, just making them pay 5 bucks a week and 15 bucks a week for family members.

Note exactly....I dont have time to get into it, but there are two sides to the argument..

There is ALOT of propaganda going around now, so just read everthing you can, just so you get both sides. I know at my store, the manager is saying everyone that is picketing outside gets paid 18 bucks an hour, and is handing out a flyer to every shopper that says we want more benefits and pay..I think thats one of the reasons why the Union is going to sue Ralphs, false statements and the like.

I know that I am not going to force feed facts that I know to any of you anymore, its up to you guys to read what you want, and then decide. Thats how I treat the situation now, and if you would like to see our views (I highly suggest, as differs from the media), go talk to a picket captian, or someone at a local ralphs, would mean alot to me!

Thx

Kevster

10-18-2003, 11:28 PM

As I have already posted earlier about this, I still feel the same way. I'm not crossing the picket line, period. I already did what Blitz suggested during the week and talked to a picket captain at my local store (I have an albertson's just 5 minutes' walk from me) and I know that the supermarket chains are really trying to shaft labor on this one. That's just my humble opinion and I'll just go to Rite-Aid, Howe's and Costco until this is over.

yippiekiyeh

10-19-2003, 02:54 AM

Well the question remains, the scabs can be paid up to $18 and hour... so what do the union people get?

As for the benefits like health care, I pretty much feel like if they're asking you to pitch in that's okay. Hell, I work IN the healthcare industry and I have to pitch in part of my medical/dental/vision.

As for the retirement benefits, I would say that's wrong, gotta keep the retirement benefits, and no 2 tier crap... That's just a ploy to introduce cheaper workers and phase out the more "expensive" workers.

It isn't pretty, but people got to eat and if a ralphs/vons/albersons is the only supermarket around, I'm not going to starve to support a striker.

Just as much as a striker isn't going to help me out after the strike to give me discounts on food when they get their new contract.

Personally I feel like the middle ground is where the truth is.

Strikers say that they are losing their benefits and getting paid less, the Corporations saying that they need to stay competive so they need to get change their costs. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Cantacuzene

10-19-2003, 07:29 AM

Two things upset me here...

It isn't pretty, but people got to eat and if a ralphs/vons/albersons is the only supermarket around, I'm not going to starve to support a striker.

Since when is that ever the case? Like there aren't a million supermarkets in every town.

Just as much as a striker isn't going to help me out after the strike to give me discounts on food when they get their new contract.

Its called worker solidarity. No, they won;t give you discounts but when YOU strike they will respect your strike the way you respected theirs. What good is a strike if no one respects it? All you're doing by not respecting their strike is making your eventual strike that much tougher on yourself by strengthening management and weakening unions. By selling out your class you are selling out yourself.

Jihforce

10-19-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Cantacuzene

Since when is that ever the case? Like there aren't a million supermarkets in every town.

In the island of Catalina off the cost of CA, there's only 1 supermarket, a Vons. Those who don't shop there, must sail for 1hr, go to a supermarket on the mainland, stock up, and sail back to Catalina. Rather inconvenient if you ask me.

I would like to see the union pass out the supermarkets offer, not some "trimmed down" version of it. The reason I posted the link from safeway was to get their perspective. I know it sucks but really, people gotta eat eventually. Fighting for fresh goods in the local TJ or Costco is getting really ridiculous.

Cantacuzene

10-19-2003, 03:29 PM

OK, Catalina is an exception, but for the 99.9% of other people you agree with me?

Ladogaboy

10-19-2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Jihforce

Fighting for fresh goods in the local TJ or Costco is getting really ridiculous.

I still haven't really seen any difference. I never did shop at Ralphs, Vons, or Albertsons because I always felt that their prices were too high, so I've been used to shopping in other places. And I am yet to notice much of a difference in the other stores. I mean, they are a little bit busier, but not to the point point of being an inconvenience. :shrug:

cheapchinese

10-19-2003, 04:08 PM

i'm cheap.. i just go where the prices are cheaper.. unless i'm too lazy to drive 15 mins.. then i'll just go to albertson which is like 2 mins away...

Kevster

10-19-2003, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Jihforce

In the island of Catalina off the cost of CA, there's only 1 supermarket, a Vons. Those who don't shop there, must sail for 1hr, go to a supermarket on the mainland, stock up, and sail back to Catalina. Rather inconvenient if you ask me.

I would like to see the union pass out the supermarkets offer, not some "trimmed down" version of it. The reason I posted the link from safeway was to get their perspective. I know it sucks but really, people gotta eat eventually. Fighting for fresh goods in the local TJ or Costco is getting really ridiculous.

There are actually people going to the mainland from Avalon and coming back with suitcases/boxes full of food. Apparently the fact that Vons is the only store on the island hasn't stopped them from honoring the picket line where the supermarket workers are their neighbors.

Jihforce

10-19-2003, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by Kevster

There are actually people going to the mainland from Avalon and coming back with suitcases/boxes full of food. Apparently the fact that Vons is the only store on the island hasn't stopped them from honoring the picket line where the supermarket workers are their neighbors.

What choice do you think they have tho, seriously. If you cross the picket line, everyone's gonna know who you are. Good luck shopping there after this is all over. The are about 2500 people whole live there from what I hear.

Jihforce

10-19-2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Ladogaboy

I still haven't really seen any difference. I never did shop at Ralphs, Vons, or Albertsons because I always felt that their prices were too high, so I've been used to shopping in other places. And I am yet to notice much of a difference in the other stores. I mean, they are a little bit busier, but not to the point point of being an inconvenience. :shrug:

I actually have coworkers who where forced to go to other places such as whole foods, bristol farms and trade joes and they tell me that they are basically bumping elbows with everyone. And by the time they get off work and buy their food, most of the fresher foods are pretty much gone. Not to mention they are more expensive.