Soldiers Must Wait for Their Iraqi Wives

[nickel]

PENSACOLA, Fla. - Two National Guard soldiers who married Iraqi women against their commander's wishes will have to wait at least eight months to return home with their brides, according to a lawyer for one of the soldiers.

The women's visas will take at least that long to process by mail because the State Department is not issuing visas in Iraq, said Richard Alvoid, an attorney hired by Sgt. Sean Blackwell's family.

The wait could be even longer if the military decides to charge the men with disobeying orders, Alvoid said.

Blackwell, 27, and Cpl. Brett Dagen, 37, were Christians who converted to Islam so they could be married under Iraqi law. Their commanders took the unusual step of ordering the men not to marry.

The soldiers, members of the 3rd Battalion of the Florida Guard's 124th Infantry, are expected to remain in Iraq at least until February. The men had wanted to send their wives, both physicians, to the United States sooner because of threats from anti-American Iraqis.

The men have been restricted to their bases since the double wedding in August, and they have not been allowed to see or speak to their wives since then, the soldiers' mothers said Monday.

Capt. Jason Beck, a spokesman for the 3rd Battalion of the Florida Guard's 124th Infantry, did not return a call seeking comment Monday.

Alvoid said he has received word from the Judge Advocate General's Office that charges have not been filed but the soldiers were under investigation.

Lt. Col. Ron Tittle, spokesman for the Florida National Guard in St. Augustine, said earlier this month that the soldiers' battalion commander had been worried the marriages might distract his troops from their mission and compromise their safety.

link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=10&u=/ap/20031020/ap_on_re_us/iraq_marriages)

[Dirty Sanchez]

Daaamn! 8 months before they can "Rock the Casbah"?

[Merlin]

Well that's because the "Sheriff don't like it" :hihi:

[Cantacuzene]

What a joke. The army cannot order you not to marry someone. If they get punished that will be just terrible. I don't see what the problem is anyway. They didn't have a problem marrying german or austrian women after the second world war, or even japanese women.

[Tse How]

Originally posted by Cantacuzene
What a joke. The army cannot order you not to marry someone. If they get punished that will be just terrible. I don't see what the problem is anyway. They didn't have a problem marrying german or austrian women after the second world war, or even japanese women.



I think they are being punished already. According to the article they're being confined to their base and are being prevented from seeing their wives. Is that even legal??

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by Tse How
Is that even legal??

Probably, but it surely isn't fair.

[nickel]

who are you calling Shirley? :hmm:






















:D

[coleslaw]

I smell a made-for-TV movie in the works; probably something that will air on the Lifetime Movie Network.

[Cantacuzene]

Originally posted by coleslaw
I smell a made-for-TV movie in the works; probably something that will air on the Lifetime Movie Network.

Only if the soldiers beat/raped their wives and the cops don't believe the women, and they band together, beat the system and get custody of their kids and their husbands die some sort of gruesome death.

[Apex]

8 Months? That's pretty long considering an out of country wedding. Should be closer to 6 months average, but I assume the whole war thing could stretch things out by 60 days or so.

[Showtime]

Remember that Marine who married that Saudi princess and had all kinds of problems and had to smuggle her out and stuff....
That didn't work out and I doubt these will either.
Converting religion just to get laid = Pathetic. Now we have to watch the 2 soldiers cuz if they are as whipped as they sound than they could be a threat to nat'l security.
I hope this process takes years.

-jel:halo:

[bachviet]

Originally posted by Apex
8 Months? That's pretty long considering an out of country wedding. Should be closer to 6 months average, but I assume the whole war thing could stretch things out by 60 days or so.
Yeap it took about 6 months to bring a bride/groom from VN to the US given that the other person is a US citizen. It just takes longer now since 9-11.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
Now we have to watch the 2 soldiers cuz if they are as whipped as they sound than they could be a threat to nat'l security.
I hope this process takes years.

-jel:halo:

Well, I hope that all the ingnorant and racist people in the U.S. wise up, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon. :hmm:

[le_stick]

Originally posted by Ladogaboy


Well, I hope that all the ingnorant and racist people in the WORLD wise up, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon. :hmm:



.....:D

[Apex]

Originally posted by bachviet

Yeap it took about 6 months to bring a bride/groom from VN to the US given that the other person is a US citizen. It just takes longer now since 9-11.

Sounds about right. It's even worse if you get married to a foreigner in the US. It's normally just past 1 year before they get their citizenship.

[Tse How]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

Converting religion just to get laid = Pathetic. Now we have to watch the 2 soldiers cuz if they are as whipped as they sound than they could be a threat to nat'l security.
I hope this process takes years.

-jel:halo:

Where does it say they converted religion? You make it sound as if they married a couple of female Osamas. Get a clue.

[Showtime]

Originally posted by Tse How


Where does it say they converted religion? You make it sound as if they married a couple of female Osamas. Get a clue.

Blackwell, 27, and Cpl. Brett Dagen, 37, were Christians who converted to Islam so they could be married under Iraqi law. Their commanders took the unusual step of ordering the men not to marry.


Hey Tse.... learn to read you genius. :duh:

I said exactly what I meant. F PC. Save that pc bs for peace time.
They disobeyed orders and got married inspite of being told not to.
Sounds whipped to me. With all the soldiers dying and whats been going on lately, I have no sympathy for the Muslim religion or any American who changes religions for some pussy.

-jel:halo:

[whitak24]

i would.....but it's totally not worth it. i have more important things to do with my time.

[hapoo]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

I have no sympathy for the Muslim religion or any American who changes religions for some pussy.



you also have no clue about the Muslim religion :disa:

[Showtime]

Enlighten me wise one.

-jel:halo:

[hapoo]

quite honestly i don't have the time or the patients for someone who obviously doesn't give a crap.

[Showtime]

Originally posted by hapoo
quite honestly i don't have a point or the ability to explaine myself.....

I already know this brother.

I've read probably as much as you have on the religion. Unless you yourself profess Allah as the one true..... and Mohammed his highest profit blah blah blah.... I highly doubt you could enlighten me.

It's a religion of hate. Jews have many similar beliefs, but they are not sending human bombs and blowing up our buildings.
It's a religion that seems to take hold where ever there is an oppressed people of color. It gives those people the green light to commit horrifying acts of violence in the name of Allah. It falsely promises young men who could never own a car or a house that they will receive virgins and a room in a castle or some bs for killing infidels. It oppresses woman and the physically weak. It is a brutal religion that is not associated with peace or equality or justice. I know some Muslim people and I am very impressed with many of their character traits, but I am also aware that many claim that if they are "called" they will go and Jihad or whatever it is called.
Defend it if you want but I have seen enough already.

-jel:halo:

[cheapchinese]

this might come out ignorant, but can these women even speak english. For my understanding, muslim counrty don't really like educating their woman, esp in iraq where they were supposedly hating the westeren world, the united states ofcourse, soo.. i dunno, just a thought that came into my head when i was reading the article

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by whitak24
i would.....but it's totally not worth it. i have more important things to do with my time.

:stupid:

It's not as though people haven't spent the time to try in the past. And look how far some of us have progressed. :rolleyes:

[dRu168]

Originally posted by cheapchinese
this might come out ignorant, but can these women even speak english. For my understanding, muslim counrty don't really like educating their woman, esp in iraq where they were supposedly hating the westeren world, the united states ofcourse, soo.. i dunno, just a thought that came into my head when i was reading the article


Both the women are doctors so I think it's safe to assume they are pretty well educated and thus know at least a little engrish :)

[blueindian]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

<snipped a buch of bullshit>


yes, you obviously know what you are talking about.:rolleyes:

[topane]

Originally posted by cheapchinese
this might come out ignorant, but can these women even speak english. For my understanding, muslim counrty don't really like educating their woman, esp in iraq where they were supposedly hating the westeren world, the united states ofcourse, soo.. i dunno, just a thought that came into my head when i was reading the article Iraq is a Muslim country by population but not (or at least wasn't) by government. Saddam didn't like fundamentalists and his gov't repressed a lot of religious activity. Women could get an education and hold jobs because it wasn't a Taliban-style government. There were even liquor stores in Iraq - try finding one of those in Saudi Arabia or Iran.

[topane]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
I've read probably as much as you have on the religion. Unless you yourself profess Allah as the one true..... and Mohammed his highest profit blah blah blah.... I highly doubt you could enlighten me. Um, IIRC hapoo is a muslim (correct me if I'm wrong).


It's a religion of hate. I don't know how to tell you this, but hate isn't exclusive to Islam. I suggest you read a few history books and maybe pick up a newspaper.

[zenbooty]

Originally posted by topane
I don't know how to tell you this, but hate isn't exclusive to Islam. I suggest you read a few history books and maybe pick up a newspaper. Or better yet, maybe he should look in the f***ing mirror.


And the "Xenophobic piece of ignorant white trash of the Month" award goes out to.... Jello!

Look Jello! I'm not PC either! Why don't you put on a decent shirt and get out of the trailer parks?

[Ladogaboy]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Or better yet, maybe he should look in the f***ing mirror.


And the "Xenophobic piece of ignorant white trash of the Month" award goes out to.... Jello!

Look Jello! I'm not PC either! Why don't you put on a decent shirt and get out of the trailer parks?

:heh: :heh: :heh:

You made my morning! :heh:

[Cantacuzene]

I seriously thought better of you Jello.

[hapoo]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Or better yet, maybe he should look in the f***ing mirror.


And the "Xenophobic piece of ignorant white trash of the Month" award goes out to.... Jello!

Look Jello! I'm not PC either! Why don't you put on a decent shirt and get out of the trailer parks?

:heh::heh:
roflmao, now everyone in the library is wondering what the hell is wrong with me cause i can't stop laughing.


Its nice to know i can always depend on the people at GA to jump in and set things straight. And btw jello, as topane said, I am muslim. And although it may come as a shock to you I haven't terrorized anyone, oppressed any women or any other bad quality you associate with muslims. However I will say this, just as you would fight for your family, or your country, I would fight for my religion. If you have a problem with that, so be it.

[whitak24]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Or better yet, maybe he should look in the f***ing mirror.


And the "Xenophobic piece of ignorant white trash of the Month" award goes out to.... Jello!

Look Jello! I'm not PC either! Why don't you put on a decent shirt and get out of the trailer parks?
damn zen, you need to warn me before i read s*** like that in class. it's bad when i start laughing when i'm supposedly "listening" :heh:

[whitak24]

somehow, jel thought such broad generalizations were bad back in this thread:
http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45441&highlight=korean+racist
:rolleyes:

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by zenbooty
Or better yet, maybe he should look in the f***ing mirror.


And the "Xenophobic piece of ignorant white trash of the Month" award goes out to.... Jello!

Look Jello! I'm not PC either! Why don't you put on a decent shirt and get out of the trailer parks?

:stupid:

there's plenty of smite-the-infidel writings in christianity and judaism... from what i've read of the "official" writings of all three, the koran is the most level-headed, peace-and-love, goodwill-to-your-fellow-man of them. some people do a very good job of putting the spirit of their religion into practice. some do a very good job of twisting it to do what they want. it's not exclusive to muslims.

as for the oppression of women, the koran preaches the utmost respect for women. a man who doesn't treat his wife with respect and love is a turd.

the oppression of women is a problem of poor countries in general...

and of the bush administration. my reproductive rights are disappearing a bit more every moment he's in office. i fear republicans a lot more than i do muslims. women in third world countries are suffering even more than i am because of his administration.

and as for "switching religions to get some pussy..." you're an idiot. they are going through hell and risking their careers to marry women they love. getting pussy would have been a lot easier. and being pussy-whipped... why on earth do you think these women are "whipping" these men into marrying them? what does that have to do with ANYTHING?!?! it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to NOT marry these women if they didn't want to... they are going out of their way to do so. obviously, they understand that they worship the same god and have the same basic rules for being a good person whether they call themselves muslims or christians, unlike some idiots...

go whack off to your recordings of rush limbaugh and leave us the hell alone.

[blueindian]

Originally posted by whitak24
somehow, jel thought such broad generalizations were bad back in this thread:
http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45441&highlight=korean+racist
:rolleyes:

:bigmouth: :bigmouth: :heh: :heh:

[molecularfire]

Originally posted by dRu168



Both the women are doctors so I think it's safe to assume they are pretty well educated and thus know at least a little engrish :)
Actually, the educational suppression in Iraq has only been around as long as the Sadaam regeim has been. I can't speak for other professions in Iraq, but their doctors are basically as knowledgeable as doctors here are. I know people who have gone into Iraq with relief organizations to assess what Iraq needs, and what they know how to use and they were all very surprised by how educated the doctors there are. Now... their younger generation is not well educated at all. That is where Iraq is going to have problems in the future.

[Cantacuzene]

Saddam has been in power since the early 80's. The obviously did not have educational supression, since he needed scientists for his army and architechs for building things. The suppression was likely targetted at certains classes of people or ethnic groups. I really doubt there was a complete ban of all schooling.

[ShawnLee]

Still, I think it's more of an issue of being in a situation where you can't really have a visa for an Iraqi passport. Still, I feel bad commenting without knowing the entire situation.

[Tse How]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin


Blackwell, 27, and Cpl. Brett Dagen, 37, were Christians who converted to Islam so they could be married under Iraqi law. Their commanders took the unusual step of ordering the men not to marry.


Hey Tse.... learn to read you genius. :duh:

I said exactly what I meant. F PC. Save that pc bs for peace time.
They disobeyed orders and got married inspite of being told not to.
Sounds whipped to me. With all the soldiers dying and whats been going on lately, I have no sympathy for the Muslim religion or any American who changes religions for some pussy.

-jel:halo:


Sure, my bad. But like the artical says, they converted to Islam SO THEY COULD be married under Iraqi law. Whether or not they truly believe it, hey, apparantly that's up to you right? I mean, the Muslim religion = devil worship according to you, and now that they've fallen to the dark side, are you going to whip out your light saber and kill them all?

[ShawnLee]

Originally posted by Tse How

I mean, the Muslim religion = devil worship according to you, and now that they've fallen to the dark side, are you going to whip out your light saber and kill them all?

I must say that though I don't think Islam is correct, I certainly believe that religious freedom is important and anybody's religious choice is worth defending.

That said, what Tse How just said is friggin' hilarious.:amidala:

[Showtime]

What's Jel going to say next....So much to address.....where to begin... i could apologize to all of you....or...wait.

I didnt equate the Muslim religion with Devil worship. I've met some nice devil worshippers, but I....

I see many here would rather be pc and stick up for something they don't know much about. The Koran explicitly states that it is proper to kill infidels. As I have stated, Judaism has similar passages but they are not making human bombs and plotting to kill Americans (that we know of).
A persons race is not a choice, be it Jewish, Korean, Iraqi, White or Black, but the way a person follows his religion is. If mine told me to kill people, I wouldn't. I know enough not to follow some archaic, hateful way of life. Look at all the wise souls taking potshots cuz I am saying what many believe but are too scared to say. I don't hate the Muslim religion anymore than the billion + muslim people hate the USA. I only hate the terrorist and have no ill feelings towards such a caring and loving people. Just like they dont hate us Americans, they only hate our government. Right?
Muslims wouldnt rejoice over dead civilians and senseless violence.... Oh wait, many did and many do.
Maybe some of you already forgot 9/11... Maybe you think this war has nothing to do with religion, just politics. BS. Their religion is being forced upon more people than our politics. Their religion causes kidnappings and terrorism in the Philipines and bombings in Indonesia and brutal killings in Egypt. Ever hear of female circumcism? Again its one of the wonders brought to you curtesy of the Muslim religion. I hear that somewhere in the Koran it teaches tolerance and respect, well I guess thats not the part they teach to the masses. They cannot live with people of other religions in peace. It is some kind of affront to their diety to have infidels amongst them. Are any of us infidels? I eat swine and drink wine (wish I had some now) and generally run amock. But I don't kill people because they do or don't follow my beliefs.

Hapoo, I do have a problem with your zeal for your diety. For you to state that if your religion calls for you to take up arms and fight, that you would, makes me feel sorry for you. Currently that fight is against the USA and that would make you a traitor. You killing a fellow American cuz of some holy man telling you its the right thing to do? That is whats wrong with your faith. Like Ive said before, every person should read their Koran, Torah, Bible, etc and find their own truths. Not listen to fanatics whos agendas could be anything. I am pretty sure you were only saying that to express your faith and that you know better than to think Jihad is for you.
American soldiers are dying at about the rate of one a day. Maybe we shouldn't be in your holy lands... and maybe they shouldn't of bombed us and rejoiced and started saying they wanted their sons to grow up to be just like bin laden. I believe in peace but there is a price. I would rather hunt down terrorist and these "holy" warmongers that seem so prevalent than wait for the next attack. If thats an attack on your religion than :shrug:.

United States of America - love it or leave.

-jel:halo:

[Nanotech9]

wow - what a load of ignorant bullsht. Jello, stop now before someone physically puts a cork in your mouth... :rolleyes:

Hapoo never said he would go on a killing spree for his religion... he said he would defend it, much as anyone else would defend their families.

I know i wouldnt go out killing and bombing people "for my family" or anything else, and i'm quite positive he wouldnt do that for his religion either.

i read the entire thread, and nobody is being PC.

did you even READ WORD FOR WORD what welfare had to say?... let me post it again:


and as for "switching religions to get some pussy..." you're an idiot. they are going through hell and risking their careers to marry women they love. getting pussy would have been a lot easier. and being pussy-whipped... why on earth do you think these women are "whipping" these men into marrying them? what does that have to do with ANYTHING?!?! it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to NOT marry these women if they didn't want to... they are going out of their way to do so. obviously, they understand that they worship the same god and have the same basic rules for being a good person whether they call themselves muslims or christians, unlike some idiots...

I agree with this completely.... i would imagine it would be easier to get some "sucky sucky 5 dollah" than to marry these women "for pussy" as you say, and risk their entire career, risk being thrown in jail, and risk much more (uhh, aparently being called traitors by SOME ignorant fools).

BTW, the military (or any branch) OWNS YOU. They can tell you just about anything, and you have to do / not do it.

so jello, get your redneck head out of the ostrich's a$$ and wake up to what people are trying to explain to you.

[Ladogaboy]

I wonder if anyone has figures on how many U.S. soldiers are Muslim. Maybe that would get Jel to stfu. :shrug:

[zenbooty]

I'd really like to hear you're definition of PC, Jello. It seems like a linguistic bogeyman for you, in that you want to label any argument that opposes yours as being PC. You don't seem to really have a clue what PC is all about. Its a linguistic style based on political neutrality, whereas you seem to think it is in and of itself an entire school of thought, which it ain't. It makes you look dumb when you use a word incorrectly like that. Especially a word like PC, which is so played out by now that even bashing it is played out.

Sure, there are a lot of other things you said that make you look dumb, too. But this one just happened to annoy me the most.

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
I know enough not to follow some archaic, hateful way of life. Look at all the wise souls taking potshots cuz I am saying what many believe but are too scared to say. I don't hate the Muslim religion anymore than the billion + muslim people hate the USA. I only hate the terrorist and have no ill feelings towards such a caring and loving people. Just like they dont hate us Americans, they only hate our government. Right?
Muslims wouldnt rejoice over dead civilians and senseless violence.... Oh wait, many did and many do.
Maybe some of you already forgot 9/11... Maybe you think this war has nothing to do with religion, just politics. BS.

the people celebrating in the streets have been living in world with little money, controlled media, and no hope. they don't know what they're celebrating. if they did, they wouldn't celebrate. if we can help them get a democracy going, lift sanctions, grease the economic wheels, we can create an environment where people are not going to celebrate 9/11. and we all remember 9/11, idiot.


Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
Their religion is being forced upon more people than our politics. Their religion causes kidnappings and terrorism in the Philipines and bombings in Indonesia and brutal killings in Egypt. Ever hear of female circumcism? Again its one of the wonders brought to you curtesy of the Muslim religion.

you say you don't hate a religion, just the terrorists in a religion, then you call the RELIGION responsible for kidnappings, terrorism, etc. i'm not even going to bother with multiple rebuttals when you can't even keep your own story straight.

i did a thesis on female circumcision. it is an AFRICAN tradition. it did not start within a thousand miles of anyone who knew the word "allah." idiot. it has spread from africa among the poor and uneducated. rich, eduacated people don't do it.

american doctors performed female circumcisions on little girls as late as 1947 for the crime of masturbating. i find that more brutal than than an aunt doing it in a ceremonial rite-of-passage... at least that little girl thinks it's being done for a purpose - to make her marriageable - than because she is wicked and needs punishment.


Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
I hear that somewhere in the Koran it teaches tolerance and respect, well I guess thats not the part they teach to the masses. They cannot live with people of other religions in peace. It is some kind of affront to their diety to have infidels amongst them. Are any of us infidels? I eat swine and drink wine (wish I had some now) and generally run amock. But I don't kill people because they do or don't follow my beliefs.

yes "they" hate the infidels. all of "them." sounds more like you're describing uneducated christian trailer park inhabitants who hate them durn muslims 'cuz... uh... yeah... 'cuz they all bad n stuff. yep. i heerd that somewhar.


Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
You killing a fellow American cuz of some holy man telling you its the right thing to do? That is whats wrong with your faith. Like Ive said before, every person should read their Koran, Torah, Bible, etc and find their own truths.

okay, you put words in his mouth that came from your ass (yuck)... then said his religion was wrong... then said that every person should do something you've obviously never done... i think that about sums up everyon's problem with you.


Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
I would rather hunt down terrorist and these "holy" warmongers that seem so prevalent than wait for the next attack. If thats an attack on your religion than :shrug:.

United States of America - love it or leave.

we are hunting down terrorists and holy warmongers. not all of them, unfortunately, since you and pat robertson still walk among us.

we all love the usa. most of us love it like adults. we want flaws fixed, we can disagree, we can hope for change.

idiots like you love the usa like a four year old loves mommy. everything about mommy is wonderful and anyone who criticizes mommy is bad. grow up.

[Showtime]

Many of you "Americans" here would be dead at the hands of any of the dozens of "peaceful" Muslim groups just for being not a Muslim. They would kill the infidel and rejoice and praise Allah. Defend that if you want but if any of you lost or lose a loved one to their blind hatred, you would probably think differently. No one has answered why they have more terrorist groups than any other religion. No one has answered why they, as a group, have not condemed and helped to bring to justice the terrorist groups at large. They are supposed to be brothers and I rarely see Muslim groups condemn the actions taken by their brothers. One reason I know they don't help eradicate terrorist is fear. They also feel their god will eventually be the only God and all infidels will be dealt with. Be certain they still funnel funds back to support terrorists. What will the Muslims do when the whole world is Muslim? The answer is they will do what they are already doing and start killing each other. Everywhere you go in this world its Muslims vs the Jews, Muslims vs. the Christians, Muslims vs the Hindus, Muslims vs the non Muslims, Muslims vs the Muslims of a different sect. I've seen Korean bashing and Christian bashing and even Laker bashing here with hardly an outcry, but a little f this bs about the poor Muslims is unacceptable.
Bring the cork tuff guy and I will bring all the Americans that agree with me and we will see the power of the GA muslim support group vs Americans tired of the nightly death toll bs. This isn't a redneck view, this isn't at all like the ignorance that went on with the fight for equal rights in the US. This is me stating that I feel the Muslim religion or the majority of the interpretation of the religion is flawed.
In theory their religion can be decent, in practice all I've seen and read is of bloodshed and ignorance.

-jel:halo:
ps:Hapoo is grown, let him defend what he wrote. What will you do for your religion. Would you kill an American to remove them from your holy land? Defending your family is one thing. Jihad is as bad as Christians killing abortion doctors.

Oh yeah........{b]PC PC PC PC tree hugging, vegan tofu eating... [/b] :pfft:

[topane]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
What will the Muslims do when the whole world is Muslim? The answer is they will do what they are already doing and start killing each other. Everywhere you go in this world its Muslims vs the Jews, Muslims vs. the Christians, Muslims vs the Hindus, Muslims vs the non Muslims, Muslims vs the Muslims of a different sect. <Yawn>

You're right, in every single world conflict it's the Muslims versus someone. I'm glad you set us all straight. I just wish the Muslims in Ireland would stop fighting. As for the first part of your comment, you're probably right. But if the whole world was Christian, there would still be killing. If the whole world was Hindu, there would still be killing. People will kill each other for just about anything, religion is one way of pitting one group against another. Even if religion didn't exist, people would still find excuses to kill each other.

[topane]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
What will you do for your religion. Would you kill an American to remove them from your holy land? What would you do for your religion? What would you not do?

[Showtime]

Originally posted by topane
What would you do for your religion? What would you not do?
:hmm:

I dont know topane a minute ago they were comparing the Muslim religion to yours as if it were a bad thing. What I would or wouldnt do has been covered. Re read last post.

-jel:halo:

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
Many of you "Americans" here would be dead at the hands of any of the dozens of "peaceful" Muslim groups just for being not a Muslim. They would kill the infidel and rejoice and praise Allah. Defend that if you want but if any of you lost or lose a loved one to their blind hatred, you would probably think differently. No one has answered why they have more terrorist groups than any other religion.

many gays, blacks, turban-wearers and dark-skinned folk of all kinds are dead at the hands of white christians who used religion as their reason for hate.

i think hitler's millions of happy white christians did a lot more damage than all the terrorists in the last 50 years that you're so worried about. talk to the millions of people still alive today who lost a loved one in that little "incident." most of them have the sense not to blame christianity.

i think there are plenty of christians today full of hatred for those infidel gays for the crime of loving each other, in the name of religion. there are plenty more who hate people like me who think condoms ought to be available to anyone who wants them. don't believe me? check out the agenda of some christian groups who want to revoke the funding of any group giving condoms out in third world nations.

i don't think any of the rampant terrorists in south america are muslim.

i think the common man in the mideast who celebrates in the street at the death of americans has no choice as to what to think. the only option is forced upon him by his government. he has no idea what's really going on, he only knows that life sucks and all the news stories say it's the fault of the americans who WANT his life to suck. hopefully, choice will be restored... add in a stable economy and government, and i think you'll find they have the same proportion of rabid idiots as our country does.

ever met any iranians, iraqis, palestinians, etc, who live in the usa? i know 20 or 30. they all love the usa, love their religion, and respect their christian neighbors. why? because, unlike those still living in those countries, they have a choice. they love their home countries and hope to see change soon.

[topane]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin

:hmm:

I dont know topane a minute ago they were comparing the Muslim religion to yours as if it were a bad thing. What I would or wouldnt do has been covered. Re read last post.

-jel:halo: I don't belong to any religion. That's probably bad in many people's eyes but so be it. I don't see what you would or wouldn't do in your last post so I'm either missing something or misreading it. If you thought "God" or whomever told you to do something, would you do it no matter what it was?

[hapoo]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
ps:Hapoo is grown, let him defend what he wrote. What will you do for your religion. Would you kill an American to remove them from your holy land? Defending your family is one thing. Jihad is as bad as Christians killing abortion doctors.



Your right, i am grown, and old enough to know that no matter what i say you will stick to your ideas.
I find it interesting how someone can make such broad generalizations about such a large group of people. There are currently 1.2 BILLION muslims, and its the fastest growing religion. Thats aproximately one out of every 6 people in the world. So when you make comments about why there are so many muslims doing such bad things, it sounds the same to me as someone saying why do people with hair do such bad things. Osama had hair, Hitler had hair, and i think they guy who robbed the liquer store here had hair.

Most people would rather be right than to know the truth. I just feel sorry that you have to live in such fear about something you don't know that you have to lash out like this.

[DaFunkyUnit]

going out on a limb here...

Jel tries to make a point, and everything that he is saying is his opinion/view. He may be right, he may be misinformed. But all of you guys just blatantly bashing on him, calling him names and telling him it stick foreign objects up various crevices isn't right, either.

Jel is making a broad generalization that ALL Muslims are taught to kill/eradicate all non-believers of their religion. Of course, Muslims aren't the first ones to have this idea, and not every Muslim will go and kill another person. So we should correct Jel on his error, or try to enlighten him or give him another point of view. We shouldnt just call him names and what not. That would be too much like what is already going on in the world.

In my perfect world, everyone will be aware of every religion, without any form of religious bias. Choosing a religion should be entirely up to you, but you should also learn to accept what others believe in, w/o getting your panties in a bunch.

"Belief is not a requisite for comprehension." (taken from that matrix (http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0581.html?) thread (http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67532) :) )

[welfareloser]

Originally posted by DaFunkyUnit
going out on a limb here...

Jel tries to make a point, and everything that he is saying is his opinion/view. He may be right, he may be misinformed. But all of you guys just blatantly bashing on him, calling him names and telling him it stick foreign objects up various crevices isn't right, either.

Jel is making a broad generalization that ALL Muslims are taught to kill/eradicate all non-believers of their religion. ... we should correct Jel on his error, or try to enlighten him or give him another point of view. We shouldnt just call him names and what not.

allow me to take a hacksaw to said limb.

it's not an "opinion" when you're just flat-out wrong. "that's just my opinion" is used to often as a get-out-of-jail-free card, a free lisence to say whatever crap you want. wrong is wrong. he's trying to tell us that dogs say meow and don't lick their balls.

he is full of hate because he wants to hate people. he's found people to hate and will do so despite mountains of reason to the contrary because it gives him a warm fuzzy. we're bashing him for it. it's okay to bash people who are doing something really, unequivicollay, unrepentantly bad. it's okay to bash child molesters and murderers. we should be nice to any reasonable human being... jel is, in this matter, an unreasonable, hateful, unrepentantly bad human being who ignores fact, reason, and anything he doesn't want to hear. we tried enlightenment... he's having none of it. we didn't "just" call him names.

[DaFunkyUnit]

Originally posted by welfareloser


allow me to take a hacksaw to said limb.

it's not an "opinion" when you're just flat-out wrong. "that's just my opinion" is used to often as a get-out-of-jail-free card, a free lisence to say whatever crap you want. wrong is wrong. he's trying to tell us that dogs say meow and don't lick their balls.

he is full of hate because he wants to hate people. he's found people to hate and will do so despite mountains of reason to the contrary because it gives him a warm fuzzy. we're bashing him for it. it's okay to bash people who are doing something really, unequivicollay, unrepentantly bad. it's okay to bash child molesters and murderers. we should be nice to any reasonable human being... jel is, in this matter, an unreasonable, hateful, unrepentantly bad human being who ignores fact, reason, and anything he doesn't want to hear. we tried enlightenment... he's having none of it. we didn't "just" call him names.

I will disagree with you. No matter how wrong he could be, it is still his opinion. And because of that, since theres disagreement, instead of the adamantly saying "You're wrong I'm right," you try to justify your stance. As I recall, Jel never said any of you guys were "wrong" but he challenged you guys (albeit by saying some far out things) but then the rest of you cried bloody murder and now unleashing a vehement wrath. He hasn't committed any child molestations or murders yet (hopefully) but you're calling him a "bad person"... similar to the way he's calling Muslims "bad people."

Jel: as for the Muslim religion being flawed, well, all religion has their caveats. I guess its a matter of picking your poison and what you do with it. Religion is a two-way deal, not only does it depend on what/how its being taught, but it also depends on how its being interpreted. Hopefully after this conversation, your attitude towards Muslims (hell, the whole world for that matter) will change somewhat, in that you can't always use a blanket generalization for a group of people. You gotta understand WHY it is they do the things they do, WHY they think the way they think, and usually, its not always because of religion. Welfare pointed that out already, so i'm not going to repeat what she said.

[Showtime]

I am an American and as such I have a right to free speech and an opinion. A bit cruel sometimes, yes, but honestly how I feel right now. I am fed up with their religion. I didn't hear any of you come to the defense of the Korean people over the ice skating and soccer incidents. All they did was show their displeasure over what they felt was an injustice and many here used that as a pulpit to blast the Korean race. Last time I checked the South Koreans had not participated in terrorism or plotted to kill Americans. We also regularly blast the French and their ways (hands up...guilty).
Still I find it interesting that so many have so much to say about my thoughts. They are valid and I am not alone in thinking these things. Oh champions of the PC, where were thou when the bashing of other groups occured? Where were you welfare? Maybe those times didn't strike a chord with you. You guys are getting louder but I am just writing what I have seen of the Muslim religion.
I no longer attend church. Its been years. I find the pompus and self serving attitudes of many Christians hard to deal with. More worried about Fancy cars and toys than helping the downtrodden is now commonplace. Too much pride and not enough humility is bad in a person. I am as guilty as any man of it.
I understand that I can be wrong in many things but I don't feel I should back down cuz a few feel they are more right. What if you lost someone welfare? Your sooo passionate about their religious freedom, but many are in fear of that religion. As a friend pointed out, how many muslim countries allow other religions. What would be the price to choose another religion? Is it possible to proclaim Christ or Budha and not die in most muslim countries. That is why the religion is growing. You either convert or die.
Why do my very thoughts have to be more tolerent of their religion than they are of their own peoples choices?
Many tried to judge me cuz I spoke openly of my distrust of the Muslim religion. I apologize for giving you an opportunity to judge me but I stand by my opinions. Until they change the misguided thinking and pro-terrorist attitudes from their church, I have no choice but to worry and be distrustful.

God bless you and have a nice day.

-jel:halo:
ps: one more bomb in the US and most of you will jump to my side. Sad isn't it WFL.

[Got Apex Moderator]

Hi folks: Please keep the flaming down.

thank you,

GAM

[hapoo]

Please find me the name of ONE muslim country that does not have some percentage of another religion. Throughout history Islam has been known as one of the most tolerant religions.
But crazy people are crazy, and they will use religion as a reason to carry out their own plans. Just the same way the media can use it as a way to justify the government actions. If you truly think that its the religion that causes their actions then thats just pathetic.

As for your comment of whether or not i would fight for my "holyland". I don't believe in "holyland". Islam is in my heart. Its a protocol, a set of standards and beliefs between me and god. If someone trys to take that away from me, uses it against me *cough*, or trys to twist it around, I will defend it as it is my duty. Anyone who wouldn't defend what they believe in doesn't truly believe it.

[ShawnLee]

I'm with Hapoo, a willingness to defend does not necessitate a wilingness to become a homicidal crazy. The fact that we see a large number or crazy folk doesn't in turn reflect on the people they think that they represent. I'm Christian, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to let the KKK pretend that all Christians need to be white crazy-folk wearing sheets and filled with murderous intent.

[InfiniteNothing]

Jel, you said that the Islamic Temple encourages violence. Is there the possibility that it is the Temple that causes the violence and not the religion itself? If thats the case then it's not Islam you should hate, it is the Temple. All Muslims who participate in peaceful temples should be exempt from your hate.

[le_stick]

Originally posted by the jello is jigglin
I am an American and as such I have a right to free speech and an opinion. A bit cruel sometimes, yes, but honestly how I feel right now. I am fed up with their religion. I didn't hear any of you come to the defense of the Korean people over the ice skating and soccer incidents. All they did was show their displeasure over what they felt was an injustice and many here used that as a pulpit to blast the Korean race. Last time I checked the South Koreans had not participated in terrorism or plotted to kill Americans. We also regularly blast the French and their ways (hands up...guilty).
Still I find it interesting that so many have so much to say about my thoughts. They are valid and I am not alone in thinking these things. Oh champions of the PC, where were thou when the bashing of other groups occured? Where were you welfare? Maybe those times didn't strike a chord with you. You guys are getting louder but I am just writing what I have seen of the Muslim religion.
I no longer attend church. Its been years. I find the pompus and self serving attitudes of many Christians hard to deal with. More worried about Fancy cars and toys than helping the downtrodden is now commonplace. Too much pride and not enough humility is bad in a person. I am as guilty as any man of it.
I understand that I can be wrong in many things but I don't feel I should back down cuz a few feel they are more right. What if you lost someone welfare? Your sooo passionate about their religious freedom, but many are in fear of that religion. As a friend pointed out, how many muslim countries allow other religions. What would be the price to choose another religion? Is it possible to proclaim Christ or Budha and not die in most muslim countries. That is why the religion is growing. You either convert or die.
Why do my very thoughts have to be more tolerent of their religion than they are of their own peoples choices?
Many tried to judge me cuz I spoke openly of my distrust of the Muslim religion. I apologize for giving you an opportunity to judge me but I stand by my opinions. Until they change the misguided thinking and pro-terrorist attitudes from their church, I have no choice but to worry and be distrustful.

God bless you and have a nice day.

-jel:halo:
ps: one more bomb in the US and most of you will jump to my side. Sad isn't it WFL.

It's not the religion(s)!!!!!
It's all about people. As I mentioned many times before, it's our nature to whack each other regardless of race, nationality, color or religion. Muslim, Christian, Islam, Buddism ect, ect, are all the same. They teach us to be a good/better person and that's it.

[Cantacuzene]

Time for a history lesson about the modern middle east.

There were no "nations" in the european sense of the word in this area. Most areas were dominated by the Persian empire or Ottoman empire. Enter europeans. They colonized these areas and forcefully became the overlords. Then when they left they wanted to leave the place organized so they drew up nations with these artificial boundaries. The borders didn't take into account ethnicity, religion etc so the new countries were flawed from the start.

The people had feelings of repressions and resentments still in their system. Worse than that, they looked around and saw that American and British governments may have left, but their corporations stayed behind to rap... er... harvest the resources. These corporations were protected by puppet governments set up by the Americans and Brits. Thus teh people began to feel resentment that they lived in a fabulously wealthy area yet all the profit was going to America and Britain. Normally, in a situation like this most people resort to nationalism to unite the populace and overthrow the puppet government and eject the corporations. Problem: there are no nations that people can feel allied to because the nations themselves were an artificial creation of the colonizers! What do the people have left to unite them? Religion, ofcourse. People will eventually find teh common denominator, in this case religion. Thus the flag of religion is raised as the banner to rally to in order to escape oppression. The revolt suceeds and the puppet government is thrown out of power and a religious government in put in place. Problem: theocracies are usually just as bad as dictorships and worse because they are harder to overthrow, since to the common man overthrowing a theocratic government is like fighting against God. The other option is a facist secular style dictatorship like in Iraq. This does alleviate the problem of religious warfare (hence why Iraq didn't actively support groups like Al-Queda) but its often more brutal than the theocracy since there is no "God factor" to keep the people from revolting.

Terrorists are being spawned in countries that see US corporations stealing their money. They come from countries that have a dictatorship or theocracy which only stays in power because US military supports them. Thus the anger towards the US. They are angry politically and economically. Their governments are to blame for maintaining the status quo, but we are the strong man who supports those governments. The terrorists dont attack their own government because the US won't care and it won't topple the governments. Their reason for targetting the US is that they know eventually we will pull out of their country if they keep it up. They will eventually achieve their goal if enough people have to die. Then without the US backing the oppressive regimes will fall.

To sum it up. You have a few ragged people with limited resources trying to eject the US army and big busines from their country. Terrorism is their only solution, their only way thats going to happen. But its hard to convince people to strap bombs to their chest. We westerners would use rabid nationalism to foster the necesary feelings, but they don;t have nations they believe in. The only other thing they have which can pull up the necesary emotion is religion, so thats what they use to get the courage to blow themselves and others up.

I know that was long, but I think its worth the read.